Police and the 'justice system'

[Bluebiyou]

After Marie's recent post about 'Pedro' the 20 year old who killed the 17 month old baby by hitting him/her (I don't recall the gender/ it doesn't matter).

I concluded my post regarding the police reporting to the media.
If the police reports are correct...
After my post I wondered if Pedro is mentally retarded? Did he just blurt out the truth (and deserve death) or was he manipulated?

I remembered my (policeperson) cousin's advise (since I have so many cousins and I am a anonymous person on this site, I do not jeopardize him/her.

"most cops have anger that they draw their energy from" - ie cops like to kick somebody's ass periodically when things are boring...
"3/4 of cops want to get the bad guy, 1/4 doesn't care (if you're guilty or not)"
"99.9 % of cops will support a bad cop's decision (even when they know it's wrong)"
"District/prosecuting attorneys are worse. They don't care at all, only if they can convict. They just want numbers to be a judge, and have a pension."
"If you're ever questioned or arrested, for anything, play dumb or better remain silent. Don't give them anything."
He went on to warn me about how they can sleep deprive you, beat you up, have someone else beat you up, good cop/bad cop... all sorts of things... but don't make the bad cop's job easy by confessing to something you didn't do (this is so much easier than you think).
Remember the California molestation in the 1980s by the parents that didn't really happen? Some cop or prosecuting attorney coerced the children into saying what he wanted them to say what he wanted? The children as adults profess the parents didn't ever sexually harm them and the (now retired) person told them if they said the things he told them to in court, this would be all over soon and their parents would be okay (and back with them)...

After Guantanamo, I wonder if we have progressed past the witch trials of centuries past. Waterboarding 'simulated drowning'... Good God what have we come to?

I'm realizing I'm giving this to all, psychopaths and good people alike.
Sigh.

I remember teachers telling me when I was young, that our (usa) legal system is set up so it would rather let 12 guilty men go, than imprison one innocent man.

After having been... I don't even know if there is a complete term in my language... shafted by my multinational company to support a psycho coworker because the last thing company profit wants is to find a psycho trying to kill coworkers because it looks bad for the company applying for new DOD contracts...
I got quite a refresher on human corruption, and how common/easily it happens. Their committing felonies are no obstacle for them, they have lawyers. (ironicaly) our company features a web slogan, the only highlighted one on the 'ethical' web site instructing manager not to institute retribution for employee reporting of...
Perhaps this is because the 'ethics' group are the professionals at directing this retaliation/ committing felonies, and they don't want amateur management to retaliate for them?

And thus I question the police report, and bring up the ugly subject of corruption in justice systems. An eternal issue, I'm certain!

I think all the witches ever harmed or killed truly deserved it. I believe everything I'm told.

[void()]

I recall reading something of a guide on the EFF web on how to deal with being arrested. "The only thing you should say is 'I want a lawyer'." Of course, they have what 24-48 hours in which can be held legally without charges? You can be detained like that for any reason, or no reason. If you are offered a phone call do it from a private land line and either call a lawyer or someone who can get one. You don't need to give up encryption keys either, the courts have upheld those under right of privacy or security in your documents. But then again, the world has gone splendidly insane of late.

[Katja]

There is little doubt our police on the whole are not 'wonderful', and that we should insist on scrupulous activity by them in all things. There is institutionalised anti-homosexuality, racism, sexism and them (the public) and usism (the police). They are often used as a tool of the state to enable it to get its way.

I do wonder if your post serves any real purpose however well meant it is other than to remind us that they are a very imperfect instrument indeed. It's anectdotal nature adds to our suspicions of the police service, yet in both your country and mine, in fact in every country, there exists much better and more detailed information as to how good or bad each police service is. The police service is a human instrument, devised and operated by human beings, and it will always have all the prejudices and flaws which exist within its creators. That we should insist on these being removed and ironed out, and the service made better is unaswerable, but it will never be perfect.

The service may not be wonderful. We should question and remain vigilant against it's more unpleasant and corrupt aspects. It should be better and more honest, but for all it's faults there are so very many men and women in the police service who are wonderful, honest and committed to making the service the best that it can be or, at the very least, making themselves the very best and most decent policeman or woman that they can be.

However good or bad each country's police service is or is not, without it our countries would be much more chaotic and dangerous places. As my country will find out in the very near future as each force around the country loses very large numbers of police officers indeed because of public expenditure cuts.

[bigbadmax]

sensational sells newspapers, normal life is dull in the media.

Its all good to mock the protector until YOU need protecting, hindsight is also a power to posess.

[Hephaestion]

If one is keeping up with the Ian Tomlinson death enquiry one realises that there is at least one rotten egg on the force.

The micro-cephalic bobby couldn't possibly have lied more consistently. Did he not claim to have looked at the video and "realised that the person captured on it was himself". In which case, why did he persist in saying that the victim was facing him and causing a threat when he (the policeman) carried out the assualt etc.

.

[bigbadmax]

one should never judge a case without the FULL facts.

NEVER judge a person on media reporting.

[Darkside2009]

Ironic, that all of you should be discussing corruption in the police and dishonest police officers on the very day that a young police officer, killed by a republican bomb was buried in my country.

His cowardly killers placed a bomb underneath his car during the night, he was killed last Sunday, which was Mother's Day, here in the UK.

All that knew him, friends; neighbours, colleagues, the GAA club he played for, and his family priest, describe him as an outstanding young man, his only wish to serve his country and his community and to make it a better and safer place to live in.

Spare a thought, and remember him and the distraught family he leaves behind, when next you read some jibe against the police or police officers.

Spare a thought for his poor mother, to have her son cruelly taken from her on that day of all days. Her life and that of her family, will never be the same again.

May God heal their broken hearts.

[bigbadmax]

Darky,

ditto,could not put it better.

phil.

[void()]

"The service may not be wonderful. We should question and remain vigilant against it's more unpleasant and corrupt aspects. It should be better and more honest, but for all it's faults there are so very many men and women in the police service who are wonderful, honest and committed to making the service the best that it can be or, at the very least, making themselves the very best and most decent policeman or woman that they can be."

I concur on this but is the corrupt ones what frighten. Good and bad in walks of life.

[Katja]

"The service may not be wonderful. We should question and remain vigilant against it's more unpleasant and corrupt aspects. It should be better and more honest, but for all it's faults there are so very many men and women in the police service who are wonderful, honest and committed to making the service the best that it can be or, at the very least, making themselves the very best and most decent policeman or woman that they can be."

I concur on this but is the corrupt ones what frighten. Good and bad in walks of life.

Thats the thing Void. The rotten apples do frighten and so cannot be ignored. It is the deliverance of society and the public from the rotten apples which helps improve the integrity of the service and for that reason that we quite properly concentrate so much on their activities.

[Bluebiyou]

Darkside,
I forgot, are the republicans the invading British/protestants or the pro independence Catholics? We have republicans and democrats in our political party, but as I recall Ireland was a harsh brew of Catholics, violent, loyal to Rome and protestants (derivative of King Henry the VIII oh-by-the-way-I-AM-the-head-of-the-church in addition to king) that sought to control and profit from the region similar to the American (and other) colonies.
I know it's progressed into ... a different scenario today, but I thought it was much better now in 2011. God, the constant violence back and forth 40 years ago... horrible. It was oscillation of social mechanisms, and took real power on each side to stop the cycle. But I suppose still in 2011, a Catholic would neer do well to walk at certain times upon a protestant sidewalk and vice versa.

But, back to corrupt police,
I understand the worst in the usa are in NYC and New Orleans (Chicago and LA right up there with 'em). Which I suppose is... appropriate, because those are some bad ass towns!
Cops are mostly wolves/predators. Very essential to society to keep 'the herd' in line, yet the very nature of a predator will demand statistically that some cops are only predators masked behind legitimacy.
But, don't forget, most cops are still good cops.
This cop killed in Northern Ireland, was she a good trusting person, showing love, kindness, and compassion for 'the other side' in her day to day duties, lulled into a opportunistic murderous trap? Was she a prejudiced bitch who harassed, tormented, even harmed folks from 'the other side' until she became a symbol of evil and desperately deserved to be removed (but not killed). We don't know, probably somewhere between.

I agree that media can take things and run.
Remember Gary Condit? Sure, he had a consensual affair with Chandra Levy, but he lost everything due to media sensationalism and speculation.

I still read DrudgeReport...
I realize that everything is drenched in yellow journalism.
Oil and gold 'soar' or 'skyrocket' if they go up 1% or 1$. Everything non-republican is magnified to a ridiculous headline, so the headline is only vaguely, by technicality of the english language, still correct.
And so when CNN reports a 20 year old man saying very clinical sociopathic things about killing a 17 month old child... I react with anger until I realize this might have been the work of (forgive me) a retard who honestly didn't know better, but was coerced by police into saying certain things.
Now I understand the 12 to 1 reasoning.
But the guy who killed the kid does sound like a psycho. :(

The ultimate answer is we will never know all the answers for certain.
One of the two top objectives of corruption is to not suffer consequences for your actions, thus we have lying and hiding.

Ah, I'm not saying anything new, relevant, or personally challenging here, I'm just babbling late at night after a couple pints. Sorry.

Goodnight Vienna.

[Hephaestion]

one should never judge a case without the FULL facts.

NEVER judge a person on media reporting.

Quite right - my comments are based on the Court proceedings; the supporting video evidence and the final admission of the policeman himself to much when confronted by the hard evidence.

To wit: the victim was not part of any demonstration; plainly not facing the police officer; had his hands lowered to his side (looked to be in his pockets) and was not attacking; was walking away; the attack was clearly unprovoked.

Over 2009-2011 I was involved in a murder / maslaughter case where police evidence was shown to have been fabricated.

.

[Katja]

Ironic, that all of you should be discussing corruption in the police and dishonest police officers on the very day that a young police officer, killed by a republican bomb was buried in my country.

His cowardly killers placed a bomb underneath his car during the night, he was killed last Sunday, which was Mother's Day, here in the UK.

All that knew him, friends; neighbours, colleagues, the GAA club he played for, and his family priest, describe him as an outstanding young man, his only wish to serve his country and his community and to make it a better and safer place to live in.

Spare a thought, and remember him and the distraught family he ements leaves behind, when next you read some jibe against the police or police officers.

Spare a thought for his poor mother, to have her son cruelly taken from her on that day of all days. Her life and that of her family, will never be the same again.

May God heal their broken hearts.

The death of any person in the manner of this young policeman is a tragedy and an act of extreme cowardice. Those responsible should be punished to the full extent of the law if apprehended. That Northern Ireland is a particular case when it comes to policing within the UK is undeniable, with the history of policing in that country somewhat chequered and for all the changes and improvements which have taken place to make the police within the province less sectarian than it once was, much suspicion remains within the minority catholic/republican community. Irrespective, what happened to this policeman was an act of insane brutality of which no right thinking person can fail to condemn or be appalled at.

However, around the world policemen and policewomen die or are laid to rest every day of the week, and were we to hold back from our criticisms because of the death of an officer somewhere in the world, we would say nothing, and change nothing because the police of every country are responsible for many illegal and criminal acts themselves. Where the police service is at fault, this should be exposed and corrected. Where police officers have wronged, then they too should be exposed and disciplined appropriately.

We should not be unfailingly critical of the police, but where they are in error, collectively as an institution or individually as officers, it is right that our society expresses its dissatisfaction and demand that what is wrong, is put right.