The nightmare of nightmares---possible multiple Japanese nuclear reactor meltdowns!!

[12voltman59]

This is too much folks:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/?wpisrc=nl_natlalert

[UnlosingRanger]

The last I saw seemed to indicate that the reactors were fairly stable, so I wouldn't worry (or invoke Dr. King) just yet.

[Bluebiyou]

12 volt, calm down.
These things will happen.
They did (in different ways) before we were born.
Any memories of nuclear testing in the SW USA, wind currents, grass, cow grazing, and milk production and consumption in the midwest usa in the late 1950s/early 1960s?
It's great you're on top of news, now that you're retired.
It's more than fantastic that you're growing in sensitivity to the pains and woes of other people.
But nuclear power is in it's infancy. We've been lucky so far.
No one pressed "the button" as we expected 'the end' to be between 1948 and 1987...
We can't change earthquakes or tsunamis or ... combination failures in our more advanced sciences...
Western capitalist opportunists on things that are profitable but damning for future/others,
or ignorant socialists feeding a damning party issue (or ignoring an important social issue),
or total fucking jihad idiots in the middle east...
We can only change ourselves and influence those whom respect us...
a reality of life.
I hope all is well with you.
But rather than say "nightmare of nightmares"... presumably for humankind...
I'd suggest more direct wishes, hopes, or prayers for the Japanese in this situation.

[12voltman59]

Blue--let us hope that they can somehow contain what is going on----the reports are now from Japan that what the earthquake didn't crack up-----the tsunami has swept away town after town with all the populations seemingly gone along with the buildings and such--then to add insult to injury---there might be at least one nuclear power core to meltdown--if not more---so yeah--I think its a pretty bad situation for them and ultimately the entire world.

It just seems with all the heavy duty natural disasters of recent years--then things like the oil spill in the gulf of Mexico last year--which is going to cause all kinds of long term damage to the life in that part of the world--even if we hardly hear a peep about that now--and some of the other things going on here in the states on the political front and others--it just seems a bit overwhelming if ya think about it all too much!!

What is bad about this thing in Japan--its one thing that we have the natural stuff happen that is bad--but that if one or more of the reactors do melt down or worse-the manmade part of the whole situation will be the worst part of it--since those sections of Japan will become like the vast regions around Chernobyl----uninhabitable nuclear wastelands for decades to come!!

[DuckiesDarling]

Right now we've got three things going on in Japan: Major earthquake damage, major tsunami damage and now 2 reactors that might have problems. It is a concern and I hope and pray that the Japanese are successful at cooling the reactors.

[bizel]

people are now testing positive for radiation. seems we were being a little optimistic not expecting any leakage. for the people of japan, my prayers are with you. one disaster on top of another. terrible situation.

[mooon]

This is indeed VERY serious for Japan.

The Japanese government, like most governments, is majorly downplaying the seriousness of the situation with their nuclear plants. Some US engineers are not so sanguine.
Not much radiation has escaped yet, but ...

They have already had one reactor building explode.
They say that the containment structure remains intact. But you have to figure that most of the equipment in that building was destroyed. Most likely, that includes pipes, pumps, valves and instrumentation that are needed to control things.
At this point, they are pumping in sea water with fire trucks, because it is all they have left.
I have to wonder if their ability to even do that could be lost.
Latest word (6PM PST) was that they are having difficulty maintaining the (sea) water water level in the reactor. That must mean that it is boiling away the water at least as fast as they can pump it in, or else that the containment is leaking.
Further meltdown is a serious possibility.

That is just the one reactor. Another one also has had a 'partial' meltdown, and an explosion is feared to be likely. There is yet another one in serious trouble and three more in lesser peril.

Let us hope and pray that the Japanese can control this. The consequences of failure are almost unthinkable.

BTW, there are 105 reactors of similar design by GE operating here in the US.

[12voltman59]

I have been out on the road all day and just returned home--now they say that it could be that at least FOUR nuclear reactors could face some sort of problems if not a meltdown situation---this is Three Mile Island or Chernobyl on steroids!!

[jem_is_bi]

I have been out on the road all day and just returned home--now they say that it could be that at least FOUR nuclear reactors could face some sort of problems if not a meltdown situation---this is Three Mile Island or Chernobyl on steroids!!

The Japan experience, seems to demonstrate that there may be right places and a wrong places to build nuclear power plants. But, everything we do has risks. How many die in traffic accidents? I do not see anybody too upset about those statistics.

For me, problems are to be solved not avoided. Risks? We all hate them when they directly affect us. Stupid risks should be eliminated. But, as with driving to work in bad weather, some activities require us to take risks that we can not avoid, like it or not.

[Bluebiyou]

I fully agree in extending sympathy and help to Japan.
It's so horrible, especially the tsunami. Watching the videos had me gripped and mesmerized in horror. "We ran for higher ground but some stayed, putting elderly on second floor', only to see all buildings swept and collapse.
I don't see an escalation of these things, though. Perhaps a resumption of 'normal' for nature.
1811 New Madrid earthquake sent the Mississippi backwards.
1886 Charleston SC, usa earthquake was felt from Cuba to Canada.
1888? Krakatoa (super?) volcano, besides expected damage for over a hundred mile radius, spawned tsunamis that wiped out entire island populations and ejected so much debris into the stratosphere it was light at midnight for a year, around the world.
1906 San Fancisco earthquake
1923 Tokyo earthquake (please note, same magnitude but Japan fared a hundred times better this last week because of modern building codes).
Firestorms of last two earthquakes and several deliberate in WWII.
1936? great hurricane in Florida
1945-61? Atomic testing (above ground usa and ussr), Hiroshima, Nagasaki.
1963? Alaska
1920?, 1976? China
1979 Three Mile Island
1987? Chernobyl
I seem to remember some bad ones in Mexico and USSR in the 1980s.
1999 Turkey
Hurricane Camile
Hurricane Andrew
The entire city of Greensburg, Kansas was demolished by a mile wide tornado in 2007?
I don't think there's anything new going on in the world, just much more observed with technology and communications. Our recording technology has increased slowly for thousands of years and exponentially for the last few hundred.
This doesn't change the empathy we should have for all innocent souls victimized by nature or technology. Whether freezing to death when the Titanic sank, birth defects for children of thalidomide, decades of cancer from atomic radiation. Or, one of my favorite topics that hasn't 'flipped' yet in mainstream circles is molesting/mutilating children globally for pop culture custom/pseudoscience.
Yet, let me not detract from the tragedy at hand.
Imagine the feelings of guilt of those who fled the tsunami with minutes to spare. The retrospective judgmental condemnations they will have of themselves. Why couldn't I have held on to my child during the water's rise? Couldn't I have helped that one person I saw or know of?
This is not to mention the loss of job for earthquake stricken that would help them recover their lives.
Evacuation should minimize radioactive exposure.
But yeah, a lot of lives were disrupted, and my heart and prayers goes out to them (and soon, donations). That's the part that makes us truly human, empathy.

[Hephaestion]

The Japan experience, seems to demonstrate that there may be right places and a wrong places to build nuclear power plants. But, everything we do has risks. How many die in traffic accidents? I do not see anybody too upset about those statistics.

For me, problems are to be solved not avoided. Risks? We all hate them when they directly affect us. Stupid risks should be eliminated. But, as with driving to work in bad weather, some activities require us to take risks that we can not avoid, like it or not.

One wonders why the decision was made to build the power stations on the east coast of Japan, adjacent to the trench (Japan Trench) formed by the subduction line.

Perhaps there was no appreciation of the size of Tsunami that could arise.
Perhaps there are other factors which are not immediately apparent that favoured the east coast; maybe immediate dilution of radioactive leaks?

.

[12voltman59]

The Japan experience, seems to demonstrate that there may be right places and a wrong places to build nuclear power plants. But, everything we do has risks. How many die in traffic accidents? I do not see anybody too upset about those statistics.

For me, problems are to be solved not avoided. Risks? We all hate them when they directly affect us. Stupid risks should be eliminated. But, as with driving to work in bad weather, some activities require us to take risks that we can not avoid, like it or not.

Comparing auto accidents with something like the meltdown of a nuclear reactor is hardly a valid comparison----auto accidents may surely take many lives all over the world each year----and the effects on the families and friends of those who die remain always for them--but the actual effects of an auto accident in terms of what it does to the planet are a not even a blip on the screen---but with a nuclear power core meltdown----that is a gift that keeps on giving--for like the next thousand or so years with the area around such a place basically uninhabitable and the effects of the radiation spread can be found just about everywhere else on the planet with the spread of that radiation via air and water and the increased numbers of cancers and the deaths they cause being spread for huge distances far from the local area where the nuclear pile is resting.

[jamieknyc]

There is probably no other country in the world as capable of taking care of itself as Japan. Sonmeone said in six months to a year everything will be back to normal. He was right.

Even if there is a meltdown or meltdowns, the amount of radiation that would be released (and the health effects of that radiation) is greatly exaggerated in the popular imagination.

[Bluebiyou]

Hep,
seems to me like a Titanic thing. or a New Orleans Katrina thing.
Need brought on nuclear power. Our fossil fuel will be wanning soon.
So engineers began designs to counter the worst nightmares.
Politicians/beaureaucrats became involved in final decision because of budget and 'practicality'. Yeah, there might be some open ocean advantage to having these on their east coast.
The Titanic was a revolutionary designed ship, an entire magnitude safer (in design) than any other ship. It took a combination of unusual and freak circumstances to fail beyond the design.
Likewise, in the 60s the army corps of engineers designed levys, dykes, and pumping stations that should survive all but 'a hundred year storm' (up to cat 3). Katrina came in a cat 5 but downgraded to 3 by the time it hit 'Nawlins.
In a perfect world, 'Nawlins wouldn't have flooded, but a few weak links in the chain (portions of sea wall not kept in 100% repair because of budget) were stressed to maximum design...
While everyone along the gulf coast scorned the folks who stayed (how can you NOT realize you live below sea level?), AND failed simple coastal living sense. 1) Cat 3 or above, evacuate (unless you've got some kind of concrete bunker well above storm surge). 2) Storm surge endangers those above sea level let alone those below. 3) Where were the axes in the attic? It's common knowledge along the gulf coast that if a storm surge comes to your house the water coming in your doors and windows forces you into your attic, where you must have a escape ready. A lesson learned from Camile. A lot of folks have a hatchet attached to the attic roof. 4) Finally, the dangers of 'Nawlins were well documented. Scientific American ran a cover article (1997?) dedicated to this exact topic; 'Nawlins being hit by a cat 3-4 hurricane. This was repeated in the local newspaper in the year prior to Katrina. While most of the folks who stayed were total deliberate idiots for not having some kind of escape plan, it's still tragic they lost their lives or homes. Imagine staying in your house for protection from the storm. The water starts coming in under the door and up through the floor. At first you're trying to salvage your possessions, then a minute or two later you realize it's a loss and you have to escape, only to then realize it's too late; water is coming in the windows and doors. Climb to higher ground, into the attic. The water keeps rising. By the time you're starting (if you're able) to kick out the eaves (more likely you're stumbling in the total dark over the rafters and junk in attic), it's too late the water level is above the roof. Pretty horrible.
Likewise, in Japan, these nuclear facilities look really well designed with redundant backup safety systems, but the earthquakes combined with other failures exceeded the design.
Really horrible for Japan.
Huge earthquakes, tsunamis that took out thousands in just a few minutes, and now nuclear nightmare. Awful... terrible...
You (folks in general Hep, not you personally) can wag your finger at them and play Captain Hindsight if you want.
Or do a Captain Foresight and write an article for the folks in California along the San Andreas. It is overdue for "the big one". They should only build where slides cannot happen and build only structures that can survive 9.0 earthquakes; easy to dictate from a you-ought-ta-comfy-chair, but that won't happen, they won't listen, nothing effective will be done. The quake will come. Buildings will fall. People will die. Fires will start beyond fire department capacity; firestorm(s) (that's where the 'real' death toll will be). Rebuilding codes will be increased a little bit. Set stage for next repeat 100 years from now.
Actually, Japan did pretty well this time, tsunami warnings helped evacuate those it was possible to help, the buildings survived the earthquakes remarkably well. There is no building code that would help tsunami. NO FIRESTORMS! Yeah, the nuclear problems could really get bad.
On second thought, a 20 foot sea wall would only allow 10 foot of water (in a 30 foot tsunami) over it. Making all buildings on the tsunami flood plain out of stone anchored firmly would slow water flow during tsunami, until you get a 50 foot tsunami... yeah, building codes could help for the 100 year tsunamis.

[12voltman59]

You could have figured something like this---but this is the newest grisly bit of news to come out of Japan:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_earthquake

[DuckiesDarling]

The rods are exposed and they have formally requested America's help in trying to cool them down. I truly pray they can avert a total meltdown the economic consequences would be global not to mention there is no telling how far the radiation could spread.

[void()]

Economics? Sorry, lots are already just too poor to notice economics. I'm curious as to if the explosions were coordinated ones, or ones without control. It would make sense in a way to clear the walls to facilitate more rapid cooling.

That would imply some extremely serious know how on the part of technicians, in order to contain or minimize exposure. The Japanese are noted for vast expertise and skill, yet radiation is tricky stuff. Unlike microwaves which use radio waves actually. But we still say we nuke food in microwaves.

Just for the sake of levity and sanity. Somebody bring shiploads of Jiffy Pop, we'll meet up in Japan and have a sleep over. :) Yes, I know it is a grave situation. Fear causes me to laugh or to attempt creating light. It causes others to hate, or to tremble and cower. What will be, will be. And no, I'm not belittling this.

My best wishes and thoughts are with everyone. Hopefully, we'll not be doomed to some post nuclear apocalypse. If we are though, please send me your cockroaches, they are nutritious as are twinkies and yoohoos.

[Papelucho]

It's pretty spooky that it's the ides of march over there. Looks like it may be headed for total meltdown. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/world/asia/15nuclear.html?hp

How horrible. They've been trying so hard. It must be hell.

[MaybeSayMaybe]

There is another problem not being covered in the MSM - the spent fuel pools. See this:

http://www.counterpunch.org/alvarez03142011.html

[jem_is_bi]

Comparing auto accidents with something like the meltdown of a nuclear reactor is hardly a valid comparison----auto accidents may surely take many lives all over the world each year----and the effects on the families and friends of those who die remain always for them--but the actual effects of an auto accident in terms of what it does to the planet are a not even a blip on the screen---but with a nuclear power core meltdown----that is a gift that keeps on giving--for like the next thousand or so years with the area around such a place basically uninhabitable and the effects of the radiation spread can be found just about everywhere else on the planet with the spread of that radiation via air and water and the increased numbers of cancers and the deaths they cause being spread for huge distances far from the local area where the nuclear pile is resting.

There are a lot of places that few can live or even no people live. That fact is totally independent of any nuclear issues. In addition, dead is dead for whatever reason, and a lot more people die in car crashes before they otherwise would have died than people died in nuclear accidents or even the 2 nuclear attacks in WW-II. So, I see the comparison as very valid.
But, we definitely need to learn from this to make nuclear energy and other technology safer in the future. All technology has both benefits and dangers to human life and property.

[darkeyes]

Scary... until such times as cold fusion can be perfected then fission shud b discarded ignored an put in the bin... it is MUCH MUCH 2 unpredictanle an dangerous.. an besides ther r far much less unpleasant options on offer if we really want them.. sorry Japan but ur govt r aresholes an r hidng so much from ya that its about time ur netaural respect for authority was also tossed aside an discarded... wiv luck the rest of the world will finally realise just what a loada bollox current nuclear enrgy programmes r...is just a pity so many will suffer 2 finally convince us... but ther will b those who even now will say... worry not... belive them at ya peril an all...

[bigbadmax]

why worry...when you realise you are dead, does it matter the method of your demise, or pain you more that you cease to be, and are powerless to undo that which can not be undone?

bigbadmax 2011 ©

[Bluebiyou]

Ah, sooner than we develop cold fusion
Bob Lazar will by reverse engineering captured alien space craft, create element 115, from which we create antimatter, and thus anti gravity and warp drive.
:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce: :bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

Just teasin' a little, Fran.

[jem_is_bi]

Not that it really antimatters. But, some of us have warped minds even without cold fusion or any kind of fusion. Maybe with a little luck the anti gravity of the situation will be sufficient to make us feel better.

[darkeyes]

Ah, sooner than we develop cold fusion
Bob Lazar will by reverse engineering captured alien space craft, create element 115, from which we create antimatter, and thus anti gravity and warp drive.
:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce: :bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

Just teasin' a little, Fran.

Can take a lil teasin, Blue.. in fact am ratha fond of a lil teasin..:bigrin:

Pity for ya that ya has all the wrong bits.. tee hee;)

[void()]

What with the Emperor now, addressing the nation, I think it is safe to say there has been meltdown. He would not have come 'into the light' of public media otherwise, I don't think. Needless to say, watch the Kyoto national park for resignations of many high officials. There will be many sepukus (ritual suicidal disembowelment via tanto knife), thus abdicating their positions and effectively resigning with honor.

Or perhaps, the Emperor may grant a stay of forgiveness considering the magnitude of it all. Who could have known the power plants could not withstand a major earthquake and tsunami, after all? In which case there will still at least be koans of apology, remorse written. These will be signed and displayed publicly for all to see. The owners of the apologies will then have no face left.

They will never again work because of this incident. And it will be by their choosing not to, as it is the only honorable course. Forgiveness still does not mean life is a bowl of cherries, only that suicide is not asked. Although to that mindset if one does not work and has no face, suicide may appear a highly merited choice.

This is indeed a tragedy. Yet the cosmos has shown us daring arrogance such as we have is folly. We were not and never will be prepared. These words from an untouchable, whom shares little wisdom. Be happy even you must force yourself.

[12voltman59]

Now we have a news item going around here in the US--that when they built the Diablo Canyon nuke plant in California--the thing was built very nearly right on a fault line for God's sake!! They said they built it to stand a quake of 7.5 which they said was the strongest quake that could be expected there---like anyone really knows--- and that they didn't have to have any sort of special earthquake disaster plan as part of it being built---my God--are we freaking nuts or what??

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/16/california-nuclear-emergency-response_n_836751.html?icid=maing|main5|dl3|sec1_l nk2|50360

[12voltman59]

Latest reports about the Japanese nuke plants and their troubles: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110317/ts_nm/us_japan_quake

[jamieknyc]

What with the Emperor now, addressing the nation, I think it is safe to say there has been meltdown. He would not have come 'into the light' of public media otherwise, I don't think. Needless to say, watch the Kyoto national park for resignations of many high officials. There will be many sepukus (ritual suicidal disembowelment via tanto knife), thus abdicating their positions and effectively resigning with honor.

Or perhaps, the Emperor may grant a stay of forgiveness considering the magnitude of it all. Who could have known the power plants could not withstand a major earthquake and tsunami, after all? In which case there will still at least be koans of apology, remorse written. These will be signed and displayed publicly for all to see. The owners of the apologies will then have no face left.

They will never again work because of this incident. And it will be by their choosing not to, as it is the only honorable course. Forgiveness still does not mean life is a bowl of cherries, only that suicide is not asked. Although to that mindset if one does not work and has no face, suicide may appear a highly merited choice.

This is indeed a tragedy. Yet the cosmos has shown us daring arrogance such as we have is folly. We were not and never will be prepared. These words from an untouchable, whom shares little wisdom. Be happy even you must force yourself.

In any large Japanese organization, it is rare for anyone to actually get fired. Instead, people who screw up get shuffled on to some other position.

[darkeyes]

Currently I have friends in another part of the world in deep trouble.. and it has caused me great stress and pain knowing that there is so little I can do for them.. but what little I can, I do, and gladly and this is taking up much of my free time. In the case of Japan, a much greater and more catastrophic event, I have no one that I know of anywhere near.. yet watching the horror of earthquake, tsunami and now potentially nuclear catastrophe is almost beyond description.. we have a fragile hold on life on our world, and it seems to me that so often as in the case of Japan, we at one and the same time make the hold on life less fragile and yet infinitely more precarious.. the events in Japan have distracted me a little from those which are threatening to overwhelm my friends.. it is however a distraction I would far rather do without. :(

[Katja]

I live within a few miles of the Sellafield reprocessing plant and have been brought up with the nuclear debate all of my life. I do not like the nuclear power industry for I believe it to be much too dangerous and a threat to the existence of life on our planet. This is especially so when nuclear power stations are built in earthquake zones, and particularly close to fault lines. To do this is the height of irresponsibility and I hope that this disaster makes governments across the globe rethink their energy policies, and especially their siting of nuclear power stations. Hopefully their reliance on nuclear as an energy option at all.

[12voltman59]

When it comes to generating the power that makes our modern world go----there seems to be, at this point, no really safe or "clean way" to effectively provide it---surely we see what the dangers are with nuclear power---and to get at coal---we either have dangerous and dirty deep shaft mines--or now some form of shallow or surface mining like Mountaintop Removal Mining that is such a problem down in parts of Appalachia, a form of mining that simply devastates the environment in so many ways.

The other aspect of coal not being so good---burning it not only produces "greenhouse gases" a process that evidence does seem to firmly show if viewed objectively--contributes to "global warming"--but even clearer---burning it releases toxins like Mercury, Arsenic and toxic levels of Selenium into the environment---you can see the results of that by looking at the health of those who live in close proximity to coal fired power stations--the death rate for all kinds of diseases related to exposure to these and other sorts of things that are released by these stations goes way up and the life expectancy of people downwind of them goes demonstrably down.

To get at oil--we have problems with the drilling with accidents like last summer's Deep Horizon out in the Gulf of Mexico--or you get a situation like the Exxon Valdez where a ship gets damaged and leaks millions of gallons of crude into the environment. Out in the western provinces of Canada they have the shale sands program going on where they extract the oil from the sand layers---but that has its negative consequences---first the strip mining aspect of that along with exposing other harmful elements into the air, land and groundwater.

Now we are going to be seeing massive projects of hydraulic fracturing or fracking to get at deposits of natural gas and some oil---they are some companies running trucks around my area this week taking sonic readings to map out where there are deposits of oil and natural gas--and in the county next to me out in the country---people are knocking on doors offering to pay "good money for your mineral rights"--which sorta sounds like the days that this sort of thing happened down in the Appalachian mountains when they first found the area was loaded with coal. Even though the oil and natural gas industries say that the problems they are finding comes with "fracking" is overstated at best--it does seem that this process contaminates the groundwater supply with the cocktail of over 500 toxic chemicals that get injected down into the ground that helps push the gas and oil to where it can be accessed by the wells they drill.

It is sold to us that fossil fuels like coal are "cheap energy"sources--but there are a few major recent, (independent of each other), studies that have been done that show that if all the economic and other pertinent factors with coal, oil and natural gas are considered---they are not nearly as "cheap" as they are supposed to be and conversely---that the supposedly high cost of alternate energy sources such as solar and wind are basically on par with the "old sources" of coal, oil and natural gas.

The truth is that with fossil fuels and certainly nuclear power--if they did not get very large and generous tax breaks, direct subsidies, or relief from environmental considerations by government---they would not hardly be as "cost effective" as they are currently made out to be. One of the major negative costs associated with fossil fuels---their affect on the health of people that come to amount to the hundreds of millions of dollars if not the billions.

The reality is with energy-----there really is no such thing as "cheap energy"---you either pay for its high cost on the front end or pay the piper later!!!!

I think we do have to face it---we are going to fast be coming to a day that we just may have to rethink and consider the very nature of the kind of way of life and world we have created---I really do wonder how much longer it can be sustained.

[Bluebiyou]

[QUOTE=void_dweller;196255]...They will never again work because of this incident. And it will be by their choosing not to, as it is the only honorable course. ...[QUOTE]

Please don't misconstrue me, Void.
But your words will hang very true for the remaining men (women?) of the facility who apparently are working suicide shifts at the nuke plant.
Radioactive poisoning and death is expected from their exposure. One must envy the Japanese integrity, honor, and selflessness at times like these.

[darkeyes]

[QUOTE=void_dweller;196255]...They will never again work because of this incident. And it will be by their choosing not to, as it is the only honorable course.

Please don't misconstrue me, Void.
But your words will hang very true for the remaining men (women?) of the facility who apparently are working suicide shifts at the nuke plant.
Radioactive poisoning and death is expected from their exposure. One must envy the Japanese integrity, honor, and selflessness at times like these.

I respect greatly the courage of those Japanese who are risking life and limb to try and save their country from nuclear catastrophe and hope that should the need ever arise I can be as brave as they.. but they are no braver, more honourable or have greater integrity than any other peoples in our world. Since time immemorial human beings have shown immense courage in selflessly risking their lives for others. I do not say this to belittle or show a lack of respect to those Japanese of which you speak, Blue.. more to wonder at the selfless sacrifice human beings everywhere so often make in times of tragedy and great danger.

[12voltman59]

I thought this is a rather good article that looks at the long term effects of the Japanese disasters: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_re_as/as_japan_earthquake_global_tragedy

[tenni]

"If a technological power like Japan can be so vulnerable, who's safe? Is even minimal risk, as with nuclear power, too much risk? Do we need to rethink the role of government in protecting the public?"

I found the article to be mostly opinion and at best editorial. I'm not sure if it is of the hysterical kind or not. The situation in Japan is still developing and we just don't know the direction that it may turn. So far, most of the deaths have been on the natural source (earthquake and tsunami). Radiated food is the most pressing issue presently. So far, the Japanese have been successful in dealing with this nuclear crisis. The global economic implications are yet to be discovered. The crisis results may go any number of directions. If the "article" sums anything up, it is the fear of the unknown. Those that were anti nuclear have remained so and brought forth their arguments again into the light of day.

What do we presently know about the status of the oil spill in the Gulf? I read recently that things were not progressing under the ocean as experts had initially stated. I don't even remember "what" exactly was written though but there is little public discussion continuing on this matter globally.

Do we need to rethink the role of government in protecting the public? This is a good point but it will more than not be hidden just as whatever is really going on under the Gulf seems to be? No person or society is safe from death and destruction. Both the Japan situation and the Gulf oil spill are connected in the sense of humanity's desire/demand for "energy".

[tenni]

Ah...I've just read an article discussing how the Japanese were prepared for each of this three part disaster. It seems that the people living within the territory had lots of training and knowledge on how to react to an earthquake and tsunami. They had little knowledge and training as to what to do in case of this nuclear accident. They are growing more angry.

Other countries such as the US and Britain are mentioned as how they prepare people living near nuclear plants are prepared.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/asia-pacific/frustration-boils-over-as-nuclear-crisis-reveals-lack-of-preparedness/article1951602/page1/

[JP1986UM]

as far as I know, this is still a level 4 event and is NOT a meltdown.

Hysterics aside, it is a limited nuclear disaster.

Lastly, the Valdez accident was bad, but the area was subsequently cleaned up and rehabilitated very nicely. So much so, that they spent about $250,000 US to clean up a seal and within 30s it was made into lunch by an Orca. Funniest f*cking thing I have ever seen in my life. A bunch of left wingers cheering for a seal that then was killed and eaten within second of being released.

Yea!!!!

OMG, it killed Kenny!!!

lmao :bipride:

[darkeyes]

as far as I know, this is still a level 4 event and is NOT a meltdown.

Hysterics aside, it is a limited nuclear disaster.

Lastly, the Valdez accident was bad, but the area was subsequently cleaned up and rehabilitated very nicely. So much so, that they spent about $250,000 US to clean up a seal and within 30s it was made into lunch by an Orca. Funniest f*cking thing I have ever seen in my life. A bunch of left wingers cheering for a seal that then was killed and eaten within second of being released.

Yea!!!!

OMG, it killed Kenny!!!

lmao :bipride:

There are far more than those you call "left wingers" interested in and trying to do something about whats wrong in the world. There are those from right across the political spectrum. So lets put that to bed right now.

..and if u think seeing the death of a living creature the funniest thing you have ever seen, that merely shows just how much respect and concern you have for creatures other than your pitiful, or should I say pitiless self.. the seal was given a chance at survival.. that was the least humanity could do after it was responsible for its original distress.. that its did not survive is sad, not something to be cheered, yet look on it this way.. had that seal not given up of its life, within a short time another may well have.. so it can easily be argued that by saving this one seal, however temporary, another, possibly more, was given a chance of life.. so stop your stupid gloating and get a life.. such is the cycle of life..

Sorry to tell you that Kenny may be dead, but Chuck, Sarah and the pups are still swimming around.. and that is the true legacy of the death of one seal..

[Briar Rose]

Tenni, there were some reports of oil-like puddles floating on the water in the Gulf area recently. The authorities said it was mud/scum or something. Then more pools showed up today and yesterday. The pictures sure looked like oil floating on the water. If it is that means there's another leak on some derrick out on the Gulf and apparently no one knows which one--or no one is admitting anything.

[tenni]

Briar
I may be wrong (memory...lol) but I recall some mention about microbes that were introduced to "eat" the oil on the seabed floor not doing as well as was expected. They predicted that it would be cleaned up by now but it is not and that is just the "invisible" seabed. We can not see radiation with our eyes. We can not see the seabed with our eyes either.

With regards to the Valdez situation, I saw reports stating that even after all these years there are still oil and environmental problems relating to that spill. It was not cleaned up "perfectly". Sorry, I can not give specifics but someone else might be able to.

We do not know the consequences of what is going on even for now, let alone decades from now concerning this reactor situation.

[Briar Rose]

I know--all this crap we do, we humans! I agree, we truly don't know the long term consequences of what's happening in Japan and the Gulf.

And it would be nice if we would stop creating more problems to deal with. I have kids. I would like it if we didn't leave them a garbage pile to sort out, but it looks to me like that's exactly what we will be doing.

[fuckmegood50]

The trouble, 12Voltman, is you can't believe anything the propaganda media writes or says. The fact is, everything is under control in Japan, and the nuke plants are no real danger.