Decided to stay out of (further) trouble [Archive]

View Full Version : Decided to stay out of (further) trouble

NotLostJustWandering

Mar 10, 2011, 6:19 AM

Hey, everyone. I know some of you have been worrying about my safety, and since I was planning stuff I couldn't freely talk about, I could only drop hints that may have let people's imagination run wild. So I thought I'd announce that I've decided to bring my brief and absurd career as an international revolutionary to an end. It's not just that I am overly attached to my personal safety or liberty, but that I recognize that the politics are just too complicated for me to know what the right thing to do is.

I did attempt to hitchhike from Taba to battle-torn el-Arish in North Sinai earlier this week (there are no busses) and made it as far as Nakhl, and I did meet young supporters of a certain Bedouin guerilla leader, but just as I was sitting down and talking insurrection with them, waiting for the big guns to show up, I was suddenly whisked away by the Egyptian police, who interrogated me, went through my phone and wallet to note all my connections, and finally sent me back to Nuweiba with a motorist they flagged down after warning me they'd throw my ass in jail if they ever saw me in Nakhl again.

I can make no claims to being savvy or even courageous ("foolhardy" is probably a better word) but to my credit I never stopped smiling at everyone throughout the process. I even shared a laugh with the cops when I prompted them to take down the picture of Hosni Mubarak still hanging in the office. I think I managed to persuade them that I'm basically a nice guy if a bit insane -- probably a very accurate assessment. Before getting sent off I was even treated to a delicious meal with soldiers at the checkpoint. Why not, I figured, even Jesus ate with the tax collectors.

The insurrectionists were very impressed with my sympathy for the plight of the Bedouins and willingness to help -- in all likelihood, the very first time they saw a foreigner show up there with such an agenda. They called me up repeatedly over the next few days, first to make sure I was OK, then urging me to come back. I was disturbed that the last bunch of calls were from a person whose voice and number I did not recognize, and that he kept trying to speak to me in Arabic though my vocabulary is so limited that speaking on the phone is useless. I was reminded of the saying that the surest sign of insanity is to repeatedly attempt what doesn't work the first time, and my confidence in this particular organization quickly eroded away.

The nail in the coffin came with a conversation I had with my Arabic teacher, who answered my Big Question thus: the Bedouins have not seized the opportunity the revolution may have presented to take Sinai from Egypt because they know it would prompt Israel to invade again, and while some Bedouin would welcome them back, many others would not, and chaos would ensue. We discussed recent history and politics for half an hour and I decided that while I may now understand the local politics better than almost everyone who hasn't lived in the region, it still is only the tip of the iceberg, and in the field of these very complex politics, there is no predicting the ultimate outcome of whatever action one might take. I could wind up hurting the very people I want to help. I've long been saying that I'm unfit to play Lawrence of Arabia, and now I remember that even Lawrence with all his good intentions and short-term success saw the Bedouin betrayed by foreign powers.

So, with a bit of sadness and a great deal of relief, I've decided to restrict my political activity to sharing information on the Web, and I look forward to returning safely to New York next Monday, inshallah.

tenni

Mar 10, 2011, 8:31 AM

Quite the adventure.

You will have many good memories from your time in the Sinai.

May your flight home be safe and simple.

fpb09

Mar 10, 2011, 8:50 AM

NotLostJustWandering

Mar 10, 2011, 10:54 AM

Does sound like a adventure u had! As u said help them through the internet with ur surport! Tell as a country we live in we surport there cause 4 open govt. like we have here, but don't rush into it to fast, think things through be carefully who they but in charge & listen to people have to say! I wish them the best !

Nice thoughts, man, but totally irrelevant to the Bedouins and their struggle. The Bedouins have no need for the Egyptian revolution or modern democracy. They were doing very well with their own legal system, without written laws or any structure resembling a modern government, before their way of life was disrupted, first by the founding of Israel, then by the Egyptians' newfound interest in Sinai as modern irrigation made the desert livable for people who never learned how to live here sustainably.

They were forced out of their nomadic lifestyle, denied ownership of the land where they had lived for centuries and were newly divided by borders, an concept alien to a nomadic people. The Israeli invasions were for them an exchange of one invader for another, and in many ways they did better under the Israelis. Because the Bedouins have no allegiance to Egypt they have long been regarded with suspicion and hatred by the very people who oppress them. There is no reason to think they will fare any better if Egypt gets democracy, any more than the American Indians or Native Hawaiians have benefited from American democracy.

tenni

Mar 10, 2011, 11:39 AM

Notlost

I know very little about the Bedouins but I wonder from your observations what do you see as the best solution to their issues would be?

I know that in my country that the Inuit (formerly and incorrectly called Eskimo) have been given some forms of self government over their territory within the past ten years. The Inuit were/are nomadic but to some extent are living in towns and cities. They have become self governing in something between a Canadian "province" but not given that title in the area now known as Nunavut. Nunavik is still part of the French speaking province of Quebec but has some self governing aspects. The federal government use to be more paternalistic and controlling of the territory known as North West Territories. NWT still exists but Nunavut was granted to the Inuit as self governing. They have their own parliament and create their own laws but adhere to federal laws. The Inuit never signed treaties like the First Nations and their relationship with Canada has been questionable at times.

From what you write here, are the Bedouin given any legal rights?...voting rights? It doesn't seem that they are recognized from what you wrote briefly here?

Cherokee_Mountaincat

Mar 10, 2011, 11:54 AM

Probably a good idea, Sugar.
Cat

fpb09

Mar 10, 2011, 12:20 PM

JP1986UM

Mar 10, 2011, 12:25 PM

Next time, perhaps a couple of AR-15's will be more helpful than hitchhiking down a highway in search of a mild political statement. Just saying....:eek:

tenni

Mar 10, 2011, 1:00 PM

Not to be mean but, people think we live under a democracy ? This is wrong, we or the Untied States is a republic from of govt. Why people believe inthis, I have no idea! PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS AS ME TRYING TO BEING ! JUST STATING FACTS!

I've always found this type of statement made by some US citizens that they do not live in a democracy but they live in a republic, bizarre.

I live in a democratic, constitutional monarchy. The words are not incompatible. A democratic republic is not incompatible either imo.

By referring to a democracy as being incompatible with other names for governments seems to be out of touch with the contemporary use/meaning of the word "democracy" in most English speaking countries. Attaching the word democracy only to some form of Athenian concept of democracy etc. seems to me to be an illogical, semantic approach for the year 2011.

NotLostJustWandering

Mar 10, 2011, 1:12 PM

Notlost

I know very little about the Bedouins but I wonder from your observations what do you see as the best solution to their issues would be?

God, I wish I knew, Tenni. I have long wished to see them rise up and drive the Egyptian authorities and all the scum from Cairo out of here, and gain true self-governance, but that no longer seems realistic to me after what I have seen and been told.

They have lots of AK-47s, many left over from the Israel wars and more smuggled in since, but they lack tanks and have few anti-aircraft weapons. They could probably drive out the Egyptians in a stealth attack, but would have trouble holding the territory once the Egyptian army returned in full force, and wouldn't stand a chance if Israel invaded. Even a Vietnam War scenario would probably fail simply from lack of numbers; Sinai remains sparsely populated, so even in a deadly numbers game there would probably still be Israelis or Egyptians standing after the last Bedouin died.

Under the terms of the Camp David Accord, Egypt can only keep so many troops in Sinai, but they recently asked Israel for permission to bring in more, and Israel grudgingly consented. If there were a full-on Bedouin revolt, it's anyone's guess how binding either party would feel the Accord to be. A big question would be which Israel trusted less -- Egypt, or the Bedouins.

I had high hopes when the revolution broke out in Cairo, as you may remember from what I posted here once Internet access was restored. The army suddenly moved most of their troops stationed here to the mainland, and without their backing, the universally despised police began disappearing. Many simply took off their uniforms and stopped showing up for duty, others kept a low profile, cowering behind please-don't-shoot-me smiles. Bedouins around here rushed to fill the vacuum of authority, taking over checkpoints and maintaining order in the streets of Nuweiba. In a widely celebrated incident, a Nuweiba militia successfully repelled a band of would-be looters that came in from the desert (never learned exactly who these outlaws were; probably Bedouins of a different tribe).

To my revolutionary eyes it at first appeared the long-awaited revolt was underway. But soon I saw that the Bedouins of the South had no plans of asserting sovereignty or keeping their limited power once things calmed down on the mainland. They allowed the Egyptian authorities to continue manning the airport at Sharm-el-Sheik and the Nuweiba port where the ferry that connects Egypt to Jordan docks. Hosni Mubarak continued to fly in and out of Sharm to enjoy his vacation mansion and address the nation, far from the crowds in Tahrir Square. I learned that this was consistent with the way the Bedouins of the South have dealt with the Egyptian authorities: trying to impress them with their peacefulness and abiding the law (drug activities aside, of course) in exchange for the measure of self-governance Egypt will allow them.

This self-governance means that the Bedouin still live under their ancient tribal sheikdom system although the Egyptians regard them as subject to Egyptian law as well. The position of sheik is inherited, like royalty, but unpopular sheiks can be ousted, so in a funny way the Bedouin system is democratic though it lacks what we would recognize as electoral politics. Overall it seems that the Bedouins are very happy with this system. The small size of the clans ensures that the sheiks remain in touch with the needs of the common people, and the ability to remove them means they remain accountable to addressing those needs, and it all happens without the divisiveness and corruption that comes with electoral politics. I have not learned the details of how this system works.

Some Bedouins have opted for Egyptian citizenship -- subsidized food has served as a literal and figurative carrot to invite this acknowledgement of Egyptian rule. Others remain undocumented, citizens of no nation. There is a perception that these folk are less subject to Egyptian law; I profess ignorance as to whether there is any practical reality behind this perception.

A friend just came over, will post more later.

Dorian Earnest

Mar 10, 2011, 4:10 PM

Very interesting thread!

It is always interesting being an outsider in a revolution (even a revolution of sorts). I am on my second one -- first Ukraine and now another Middle Eastern country. As Atiq said, (and I cannot see the thread now so I don't have the exact words) it is hard to understand the politics of something that has taken hundreds of years to reach its current state.

The other challenge is knowing which "sources" to believe. The best I have figured is that you listen to both (or all) sides and then decide the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Luckily, as Americans, we are part of a democracy (regardless of what the gentleman from TX said). The democratic process isn't perfect -- but it generally works pretty well. I am currently living in a "kingdom", but even it has a democratic process. The rules are a bit different, but the essentials are the same.

One of the best things that can be said about living abroad is that it gives you such a new perspective an appreciation for what you have. Americans, even the poorest, are richer than the majority of the world's population (I used to know the actual statistic on this but have lost it). We have free education up to university, excellent (though expensive) healthcare, and live in a democracy in which we can participate in the political process as much or as little as we want. There are countries who penalize people financially or otherwise for not voting. Our education system isn't perfect, but it's damned good. And before anyone starts telling me about how our test scores don't stand up against Asia or some other places, let me tell you that most countries only test their best students; Americans test all students. I point this out because it is symptomatic of our entire system -- although there is a gap between the haves and have-nots -- any American who chooses to do so can work and strive and become a have. I live in a country now where immigrants are horribly oppressed -- some little more than slaves. They have few rights and have no prospects for a better life. They are here because as bad as things are for them here, they are better than their home countries.

So, welcome back to the US of A and enjoy the perspective your wanderlust has given you. You will encounter many people who have no clue what planet you come from now because their world is Walmart, McDonalds, Starbucks (all my personal favs) and watching football on TV. But smile and enjoy!

Sorry the comments are all over on this one -- but the thread went all over the place too.

NotLostJustWandering

Mar 12, 2011, 12:05 AM

I have less than 48 hours left in Dahab, so I think I'd better concentrate on other things and fill this in after I'm back in the USA. For now, I'll just share this:

As I came to learn fairly late into my time here, the politics of the Bedouin in the North are quite different and their experience with Egyptian rule has been far more violent. A great deal of, if not all of, the cause of this has been the North's proximity to the border of Gaza. Battles broke out there in the wake of the Egyptian revolution, with police stations taken over by Bedouins, government buildings blasted with anti-tank weaponry, and a Jordan-bound gas pipeline blown up. It is here that people dream of complete independence from Egypt, and so it was here that I was drawn.

After returning home, I Googled the name of the guerrilla leader I had tried to meet, and to whom I'd briefly spoken on the phone (he doesn't speak English, so a translator had to call back.) I found only these 2 articles. They are old stories, but they describe an ongoing situation which flares up repeatedly. As you'll see, this was not the first time somebody tried to blow up the gasline.
http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwide/africa/egypt-beefs-up-security-after-gas-pipeline-explosion
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/53164

DuckiesDarling

Mar 12, 2011, 12:07 AM

Hugs, Atiq, stay safe til you leave and even safer after you get in the air.

DrBimind

Mar 12, 2011, 10:20 PM

tenni

Mar 13, 2011, 5:37 AM

DuckiesDarling

Mar 13, 2011, 7:35 AM

Yep....the USA pledge of allegiance states that the USA is a republic all right. NOTICE...your country is not "America" either. America is the name of two continents. There are millions of Americans who are not citizens of the USA either.

Your pledge doesn't exclude your country from being both a republic and a democracy.

Boy, critical thinking and in particular synthesis is not learned by some people at all. (written in my most "Sheldon" (The Big Bang) style as possible....:bigrin:

Tenni,

You are not an American. No matter that you live on the North American continent, you are not an American. This has been discussed before and answered oh so eloquently by Annika in the "Drinks" thread.

Tenni, your implication is that since we're not the only people who *could* call themselves "Americans", that means you can call us anything you want. It shouldn't need to be said that this is flawed thinking.

Think of it this way, since you seem to need a way to think about it:

There are a limited number of countries who could call their citizens "Americans", and each needs a name for its citizens. It was easier for some than others (Canada > Canadian, Mexico > Mexican, etc., are all pretty intuitive). But a country with as ungainly a name as The United States of America basically has limited choices. The two most obvious were Unitians and Staties...but both of those sounded...well...just wrong. But The-ans and Ofans were even worse. Then we said (yes, every single one of us got together one day and decided this collectively), "hey, the British used to call us 'the American colonists'...or at least 'those crazy American colonists' and eventually 'those damned American colonists'. After our Revolutionary War, the British abbreviated it to simply 'those damned Americans' and that seems to have stuck to this day. Say, we *could* in a fit of optimism just drop the 'damned' and call ourselves 'Americans'!"

Most people thought it was a pretty good option. But some thoughtful and considerate souls, vastly superior to the rest of us, said, "hey, wait...all these other countries have a right to call themselves 'Americans', too! It would be confusing at best and rude and egotistic at worst to call ourselves that!" But y'know, we'd gone and set ourselves up as a democracy with *something* like a value for majority-rule, and the majority said things like "yeah, but nobody else *did* call themselves 'Americans', so the name is up for grabs, right? Finders keepers, I say!" and "Hey, nobody's stopping *any* country from calling themselves 'Americans'...it's just that nobody else seems to want to" and "If anyone complains, we'll say the British started it!" I think someone at that meeting actually said, "and screw em if they can't take a joke"...I think that's where that expression was actually coined, in fact.

Anyway, the votes were cast, the electoral college did their electoral academic thing, and in the end, "Americans" won by a landslide. So that's what we call ourselves.

Now about this "Yankee" term that everyone *else* seems to want to call us. I found this really cute (and fairly accurate) E.B. White aphorism on Wikipedia:

So whereas obviously anyone can call us whatever they want to (and do...regularly...frequently with justification), don't be shocked if the rest of us don't appreciate being called pie-breakfasters.

And if you want to call yourself an American...go for it, nobody's stopping you!

Oh, you don't? Y'mean you were just trying to be an argumentative jerk? pity

tenni

Mar 13, 2011, 1:11 PM

jamieknyc

Mar 14, 2011, 10:24 AM

In reality, no one in Israel has any interest in invading the Sinai. However, Mubarak bombarded the Egyptian and Bedouin peoples with anti-Israel propaganda for thirty years, so by now they believe it even if their is no objective basis for the belief.

Some years ago an Egyptian writer named Ali Salem went through whatever bureaucracy was required in Mubarak's Egypt to get permission to visit Israel, and wrote a book about his experiences. He was blacklisted from publishing in Egypt and now makes his living publishing works abroad.

NotLostJustWandering

Mar 14, 2011, 9:45 PM

Hey everybody, just made it back to NYC safe & sound. Must sleep now -- it's been 36 hours of bus, plane, and airport. Will write more later of course. Good to be back!

DuckiesDarling

Mar 14, 2011, 11:31 PM

Welcome home, Atiq, glad you arrived safely.

mikey3000

Mar 17, 2011, 9:19 PM

Tenni,

You are not an American. No matter that you live on the North American continent, you are not an American. This has been discussed before and answered oh so eloquently by Annika in the "Drinks" thread.

And no offense, but I much prefer the differentiation. No I am not American.

I Am Canadian...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRI-A3vakVg

:bigrin::bigrin::bigrin:

darkeyes

Mar 18, 2011, 6:18 AM

"But a country with as ungainly a name as The United States of America basically has limited choices. The two most obvious were Unitians and Staties...but both of those sounded...well...just wrong"

It may "feel" wrong Annika but in fact Etatien is exactly what your citizens are called by the Quebecois (in French of course). That translates to "Statians." So there is another word for your citizens if you chose to use it. Perhaps this attitude that your country is the continent originated with with the attitude of "Manifest Destiny" or was another indication of such an attitude at the core of your country's values? That doesn't make it any more appropriate than slavery was. It doesn't matter how much your citizens voted, it was a theft. Give it back. Get a real name for your citizens.

Of course, you won't. It would be too difficult. Too inconvenient. Not common sense after all this time, etc. Just be aware that you have no name for your people that has not been stolen.

It is a little less ungainly than "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". We all have UK passports are considered UK (not British) citizens), but those on what we so arrogantly call "the mainland" are considered British, and the north of Ireland referred to as "the province" considered UK citizens, but one half consider themselves British and the other Irish. On the mainland, most native English call themselves English, Scots Scots and Welsh Welsh. And of course we must never forget what those not of native stock consider themselves. They make for a much more confusingly varied people with many different identifications.

The world refers to the the citizens, government and military of the UK and as Brits or British sometimes, but at least equally often we are referred to as "England" or "English" ignoring the fact that the UK is a unitary state comprising 4 in theory equal partners, the nations of Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Quite a few on this site do this and no doubt shall do so again. I am no nationalist, but I am identified and do identify as Scots (with an English mum) because that is the part of the unitary state from which I come and was born just as I am a native of my home city. What peoples call themselves is of no import to me whatsoever, and should be to no one else either, and we should not take offence.. upon such little things does conflict arise. But just as once, there was a deliberate attempt to identify the Scots as North British, and a subconcious attempt by our southern neighbour and partner (and not so subconcious by our political masters) have the world identify our state as England, we get uppity and refuse to lose our identity.. and that is right and proper. I am Scots, British and European. I am neither proud or ashamed of those titles. They simply are identifying markers which recognise my heritage and the part of the world from which I orginated.... But most of all, and of greatest importance to me is as Fran.. citizen of the world.. human being. I am neither proud or ashamed to be considered either, those titles too merely recognise a reality of who I am and of the things in which I most passionately believe.

AidanS57

Mar 18, 2011, 8:12 PM

This was a great thread that got sidetracked. I apologize, Atiq, I'll sidetrack it a bit more.

Tenni, Americans are citizens of the United States of America. Around the world when you hear American you think USA. You don't think some Canuck that just wants to be an American you think USA. United States of AMERICA, hence we are Americans. And I'm damned proud to be one.

Now back to the topic, glad you had a safe trip, Atiq.

Aidan