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View Full Version : One person's reply got my mind to rambling!!



12voltman59
Feb 6, 2011, 2:52 PM
I started this as a reply to a comment made by Softfruit made on the thread "Interesting News!" posted by Ian Borthwick. My reply was WAY :offtopic:, so I decided to post it as its own thread.

These are just some of my current thoughts, conclusions, observations, "surmisings," random tidbits floating around inside my "Monkey Mind" on the topic that I think many of us think about a great deal: "What does it mean to be Bisexual" and such.

I am not saying this is set stuff---just where my thoughts lead me right now--and as is always the case---sort of in a state of flux---so take it for what you will--hope its at least "interesting" even if you agree or not with me. I am not even necessarily saying that I am "right" on all of this stuff--just trying to figure it all out and figured I would share with you all to get some discussion going if you care to respond. At the very least--if I am on to something---you at least consider it to help you "figure it out" too!!!!

Here it goes:

I think that you are certainly on to something, softfruit---look at this site---not only do we have guys who come here such as myself who came from calling themselves straight to being bi---we have an ever growing number of guys who have long considered themselves as "gay" that are now are changing that and would rather identify as being bisexual as well---I wonder--are those guys just all fucked up and confused and are on their way to be totally "straight"???????? Nobody is accusing those guys of doing that since in the "gay world" they hold that its impossible for someone who is gay to ever go and be "straight."

I have to admit---that even though I never quite considered myself to be truly "straight"---I just had this deep sense that I wasn't a very good and totally heterosexual person, but I sure as hell I knew that even though I might want to do something sexually with another guy---I sure as hell was not gay since when I looked at the "gay world" that was around me---I didn't see any place for me in any of the "gay scenes" that seem to make up "gayness" as we have it here in our cultures. It is for this reason that I have come to the conclusion that when it comes to "being gay"---the sexual part of "being gay" is only a very small part of "gayness."

All of this goes to show me that our current mindset on what constitutes being straight, gay or whatever is way off base---and I clearly have come to the conclusion that the idea that a person is either/or when it comes to how sexuality is expressed is total and complete BULLSHIT!!!! and is certainly, flat out "STINKIN" THINKIN"!!!!!

The younger generations surely do have more options when it comes to sexuality.

I can see why the guys of my relative generation who "came out gay" when they were young who are often so steadfastly set on the notion that guys who say they are bisexual are merely deluding themselves about their "gayness" and that bisexuality doesn't exist and such---they came up in a time where sexuality was either/or---you like to have sex with guys---then you are a fag----that's it--no ifs, ands, or buts about that so once you do anything with another guy---you are queer--get used to that fact!

Once a person does firmly set their mind on subjects of this sort---it is pretty damn hard to change their minds----but thankfully---things do seem to be changing in this regard with the younger ones coming along and I do say that if human society is not totally destroyed or gets set back to being like things were during the 1800s in the future by the myriad number of things that "doomsday scenario" proponents like to talk about---I think that eventually we will come to have an understanding and acceptance that the way people expresses their sexuality--amongst consenting adult human beings of course---is fine no matter what that is and the confining labels that we have long labored under will rightfully be a thing of the past and it won't matter the gender your lover(s) is or are right now, will be in the future or have been in the past.

I don't mean to exclude the ladies in this discussion because I know that among hard core, "straightists" any homosexual behavior is wrong, immoral, evil and such and with many lesbians----they follow that sort of political thing about lesbianism being "liberating for women and their natural and best state" to be rid of MEN!!! For such "political lesbians"--a woman who sleeps with men is SLEEPING WITH THE ENEMY----but for the mass culture---the only acceptable and COOL bisexuality is for two hot chicks to be into each other and get it on---hopefully with a guy there so they can take turns "doing him."

The mass culture holds the idea that for males at least---there is really no such a thing as bisexuality and even if there were---oh God--it is so sick, gross and "gay" to even think about that!!!!!!

I do note that in so many modern movies and TV, there is actually a pretty strong backlash and fear of anything that might make a guy seem "gay." Look at the movies with guys like Vince Vaughn, Kevin James, Adam Sandler, and the rest---they tend to have very strong undercurrents of homophobia running in them. I do have to wonder with those actors, their writers, producers and such---do they not protesteth too much when it comes to their focusing so much on showing how much their characters have to distance themselves from anything they perceive as "gay?" I tell ya one thing---for straight guys---they are hardly worthy role models for young guys to follow---since ironically enough---part of their fear of showing that they might at all be "gay"---they cannot show any sort of real love and caring towards the women in their lives and that they continually portray characters that often run away from committing to one woman and marrying her!!! Its a "real guy" thing to be a cad, have a long string of broken and bad relationships behind them. They of course---cannot let the women in their lives get inside their heads too much and influence their behavior---my god--go show anything that might seem feminine like that---holy cow---that just might be "so gay!!" For the guys who do "settle" for one lady and accommodate her--the portrayal of those cases subtly casts that character as "being pussywhipped."

Did I cover enough bases, here??????:bigrin::bigrin::cool::cool:

:eek::eek::soapbox::soapbox::bounce::bounce: :yikes2::yikes2::yikes2:

:compuser:

tenni
Feb 6, 2011, 4:16 PM
Voltie
Very interesting thoughts. I personally think that a discussion on male sexuality does fall under different societal norms than women. It is probably best to keep them in separate threads. As a point as to why, I wil say that it that when I was working Friday night, I was checking out this one woman who had come into the gallery. I was at a station(gallery bartender) and couldn't move. After watching her for a bit and as she was about to leave she walked across the gallery holding hands with a woman friend. Now, that would be highly unlikely for two men even in my artworld. In fact, it may be said that their behaviour was more feminine hetero than lesbian..maybe? I think that sexuality is still far too strongly defined in the negative for men today regardless of their sexual preferences.

I think that younger males can exhibit a hug for another guy more readily than older guys in public. That taboo is dwindling in some circles. A lot has happened in the past thirty or forty years. I think that young men are more than likely to have been raised by a single female parent with perhaps a step dad or two along their childhood more so than in earlier decades. This may have had an impact not just of straight/gay divide but the bisexual aspect. Some may disagree with me ...that's ok.

I think that it would be a good thing if sexuality was seen as more fluid and flexible but I don't think that mainstream is there yet or any time soon. I suspect those that have floated from gay to bi may be seen as less stable. I think that to go from hetero to bi is a bit more accepted but if you go as far as declaring yourself gay to later change your mind, well all hell is more likely to break out as far as your credibility...lol

The social taboos are still more restrictive for men but they are relaxing a bit. I find some posters' thoughts as more "gay" than my own at times. It is a bit difficult to articulate but some do have a more politically gay perspective on some thoughts/issues. Understanding that male bisexuality is fairly wide in its expression may make it a bit more confusing to boot. (some biguys have no emotional attachment to other men while some do, etc.) Are those that have emotional attachment to other men, more gay? Dunno. Still, I think that men have more sexual and social behavioural restrictions placed on them than women. Others may have differing views.

MoonlitBi75
Feb 6, 2011, 4:40 PM
*applause*

You totally hit the nail on the head with many of your points.

Long Duck Dong
Feb 6, 2011, 6:39 PM
very well written volty.......

a lot of what is going on in society is interesting..... there is a breaking down of the rigid walls of sexuality and the LGBT community.

interestingly enuf, there is a lot of fighting within the LGBT to keep the walls up... as they are fighting terms like heteroflexible and mainly straight, in the same way that gay people are fighting bisexuality.....

as we progress slowly towards sexuality not mattering as much as the person themselves, the younger generations are not feeling the need as much to * stand up and be counted * they are just wanting to be one of the crowd and I am watching the battlelines being drawn by the older generations, almost as if they fear losing the identity they have just found

that brings us to aspects like the heteroflexible and the mainly straight, they are not seeing themselves as bisexuals.... as even the bisexuals can not agree on what is bisexual and who is bisexual......
the kinsey scale has 2 in it... a mainly straight person.... yet bisexuality would be 2-6 on a scale out of 1-7 because of the blurred lines of bisexuality....

even the ladies are finding that a hug and kiss is not seen as sexual until you make it sexual and indeed that was the way I was with many of my friends... a hug and kiss was a hug and kiss, as we had not be * defined * and made to fall out into rank and file by the different groups of society.....

as society changes and it is changing faster over the last 3 decades than it has over the last 200 years.... we will soon see that the old vanguard of defined sexuality, will start to fade, and the terms, lesbian, gay, bisex, trans, pansexual etc will start to mean less and less.... as we see people more in terms of people, not sexuality........

void()
Feb 6, 2011, 11:07 PM
LDD,

They call us idealists and dreamers, because we don't take hostages and do suicide bombings they merely chuckle as we fade off into obscurity. And no I'm not indicating any weird desires or such but offering a view. Or in current vernacular, 'just sayin'.

darkeyes
Feb 7, 2011, 6:52 AM
LDD,

They call us idealists and dreamers, because we don't take hostages and do suicide bombings they merely chuckle as we fade off into obscurity. And no I'm not indicating any weird desires or such but offering a view. Or in current vernacular, 'just sayin'.

Fear not Voidie.. they may chuckle, even ridicule and they do, and we may well fade off into obscurity, but it is the dreamers and idealists whose dreams and ideals build the world of tomorrow.. :)