LGBT behind bars

[Long Duck Dong]

this is written from a bisexual males point of view of prison and being LGBT in prison in NZ.... I am writing it, not to justify my past or for sympathy...but cos its a aspect of life for LGBT that is real and rarely talked about...
while I have friends still in prison, I am free ( I did time in the 90s ).... and there are times I wonder who are the real prisoners.....

yeah.... criminal lgbt, and they do exist..... for what ever reason they are behind bars, be they innocent or guilty....

There is a popular misconception about prison and that is that homosexuality is all thru the penal system because of people in cells together.

its something that many people assume.... and while it happens,
in most prisons, sexual connection is not as common place as people may believe... prison gang bang are not going on every day in the showers and you are more likely to have a shiv stuck in you, than a penis ( a shiv is a weapon like a blade )

while prison would seem like a gay mans dream come true, full of randy males eager to fuck a hole... the truth is far from it.....

imagine yourself in a 8 by 6 room, alone, with no privacy, no porn and if you jerk off loudly, you are likely to have a number of people telling you to STFU, they are trying to sleep as sound echoes in cell blocks......

your sex drive in prison dies pretty fast, and many inmates actually struggle to have normal sex after they get paroled.. something that has been documented, as ex cons are readjusting to a normal life again... a good number never do, so they return to prison life.....

after about 3 weeks your memories start to fade, you can no longer remember how good sex was, you have vague memories.... wet dreams.... but due to the isolation and stress of prison life, you no longer feel the need or desire to wank or fuck.... your penis becomes something for pissing out
of....

as your sexual desire dies, you begin to come less emotional, you start to * harden up *... becoming * cold * and less emotional, the tears in the eyes stop when you think of the ones you miss....and when they come to visit, you are isolated and watched, as even the smell of their hair, can drive you mad with emotions.....

the books and the gym and the food and the tv.... for a lot of prisoners, they avoid tv when they are vets ( long term prisoners ) as they no longer feel a connection to the outside world, they like to read or do their arts and crafts.....the gym is a way to keep fit and exercise, the food is cos we have to eat and eat healthy... there is no menu... you eat it or you starve.....

for people in max security, its a 23 hour a day lockdown, and if you are lucky, you may get one hour a day in the exercise cells and have a couple of guys in the cells beside you.... human faces just like you.... and you are not blowing kisses and making sweet talk... cos you can no longer remember how too or what it feels like to touch or be touched....

in the shower, its hot, wet and you have eyes watching you, 10 minutes to shower.... two at a time, with quards watching every move.... and they have seen it all before, they give you the same blank stare that you see in the prisoners.... nobody cares about you, you are a number, a name and a cell

yes there are christian groups that are anti condoms in prisons cos it encourages homosexuality, but they are mainly groups that never go inside the prisons and never realise that for most people, sex is the last thing on their mind and for many of them, they are not sexually active anyway

homophobia / biphobia generally doesn't exist for the most part as most of us are reduced to human beings, our sexuality doesn't matter... who we would fuck and desire in the real world, means nothing now.... and most of the prisoners do not care if you are lgbt / hetero... cos behind bars, you are just one of them, and you are either in their sights or not.....its best to be not in their sights

release date, you get out with your paperwork, your personal items, and the chance to say to the quards what you think of them...... I shook hands with them and offered to buy them a beer one day.... ( two of them I got the chance to do just that )...

real life, Mc'ds, alcohol, cigs....... and omg, a real bed, a warm body... and .... nothing... no erection, no desire, no arousal... it took me 3 weeks until i could function fully again as a male...

many people have said to me that prisoners have it too easy in prison, its a picnic.... and I just smile and say, you have never been there have you..... its not what you have in prison that makes it so easy... its what you lose that makes it easy.... your emotions and your empathy......

call us animals and you are right.... cos animals do not debate and argue, socialise over a coffee or beer, have support and counselling groups, many of the things that make people human.......
but we are not animals cos of what we do... its what we don't do.... and thats feel anything... cos prison takes that away from you.... thats what makes prisoners, animals......

so.. yeah.... a real reality of being lgbt behind bars as seen by a bisexual man.....
when we talk about not having rights and being seen as a nobody.... I have been there... I was LGBT behind bars and for 6 months I lived in a world with no rights and I was a nobody......

be thankful for what you do have... freedom with limits is still better than no freedom at all....

[darkeyes]

I have never been in the nick Duckie but have a friend who spent a short sentence in Scotlands only women's prison at Cornton Vale. Much the same seem to be reflected in our women's prisons if that particular institution is anything to go by.. sex does exist and probably a bit more than you make out, and from those men I have met who have been to prison, their prisons too.

My friend had two sexual experiences in her time in the nick.. one was as much for comfort for two women isolated from all they knew and in common purpose to help them get through a difficult time. The second was less pleasant and inflicted on her by a hardened old lag.. it was only once but it was quite enough to traumatise her. It may not have been a violent rape physically but rape it was nonetheless since it was that or worse...

She is not a gay or bisexual woman.. yet her being drawn to the first woman for support comfort and whatever love she could get helped her through.. it was a need and she didnt feel at all dirty afterward. What is nice is that she is still friends with her lover.. who by the way is not gay or bi either.. so something positive came out of it which has to be good. She did however go on a sex binge when she came out as much she says to prove that she is still she.. she is.. but it did change her.. she is now a much less positive person than she was, much more nervous and less likely to trust anyone than she was.

Our prisons are dehumanising no matter our sexuality. They are not meant to be easy, yet those who are imprisoned are still human beings no matter their crime. They are dangerous places by their very nature. I have (suprise surprise opinions on our prisons and the whole issue of penal reform but Im not going to go on about that here.. suffice to say they arent perfect and could be better.. but from what you say, and my friend says, and what I glean from elsewhere, it seems prison in the developed world isnt a bed of roses wherever we are..

[Long Duck Dong]

I was in max, fran... single cell, and no contact with other prisoners beyond talking, a hour in the exercise yard and a shower.....

in minimum and medium security, its different, a lot different and so its a lot different to the type of prison I am refering to

the same with so called dehumanizing people in prisons..... most of the people behind bars in max, will tell you, never let them out.... never put them back in society as they will reoffend and its happened, a number of times

more often than not, they are released and promptly reoffend.... leading to a outcry of why why was he released in the first place.... and who is going to answer for the fact another person is dead......

sure deal with minimum and medium as best you can, but listen to the guys in max, they are in there for a reason... and if they say that they will reoffend, believe them

the best way to understand prisons and prisoners is to spend a month with them in the prison.... that way you start to realise that many of them are happy with what they have.... and don't want outside interference by people that have never been there...

recently packing crates were used in a nz prison, and the prisoners loved them, the fresh air, natural light, more room to move... and the greenies and activists are fighting to have the prisoners stuck back in a 8 by 6 cell with artificial lighting and air con cos its * inhuman to have the prisoners in packing crates *

[darkeyes]

I was in max, fran... single cell, and no contact with other prisoners beyond talking, a hour in the exercise yard and a shower.....

in minimum and medium security, its different, a lot different and so its a lot different to the type of prison I am refering to

the same with so called dehumanizing people in prisons..... most of the people behind bars in max, will tell you, never let them out.... never put them back in society as they will reoffend and its happened, a number of times

more often than not, they are released and promptly reoffend.... leading to a outcry of why why was he released in the first place.... and who is going to answer for the fact another person is dead......

sure deal with minimum and medium as best you can, but listen to the guys in max, they are in there for a reason... and if they say that they will reoffend, believe them

the best way to understand prisons and prisoners is to spend a month with them in the prison.... that way you start to realise that many of them are happy with what they have.... and don't want outside interference by people that have never been there...

recently packing crates were used in a nz prison, and the prisoners loved them, the fresh air, natural light, more room to move... and the greenies and activists are fighting to have the prisoners stuck back in a 8 by 6 cell with artificial lighting and air con cos its * inhuman to have the prisoners in packing crates *

I do believe every effort should be made to rehabilitate people and stop them reoffending when they are released.. it is better to have people back in society as honest hard working individuals than the drain they are by being locked away. But society on the outside has to change also not simply how people are treated in prison.. jobs have to be created and decent jobs, and proper support for those released.. some we know will always reoffend..in some ways those who enter prison come out more likely to reoffend than before they went in... some are simply too dangeroous to ever release yet we should still make the effort to try and rehabilitate them or at least through the prison system make them relatively sueful human beings contributing something to the world and allowing them opportunities other than being locked away going nuts for 23 hours a day.. that happens here too.. the system makes all of that inevitable to some degree... and many I agree become institutionalised by theie stay particularly those who are serving long sentences or have spent relatively little time on the outside over a long period of time. We should be endeavouring to improve this situation but prisons in the UK at least dont do enough in this area..

Regarding the packing cases, I agree with those that say it is inhuman to provide such accommodation for prisoners.. yet it is equally inhuman to lock someone up in an 8'6 cubby hole for 23 hours a day.. I have two cupboards bigger than that at home and we also have a bedroom of exactly that size.. it is used merely as a "put me up" spare and could never expect a human being to use that as a bedroom for a long term stay. And guests arent locked in and can get out!!! If we are genuinely interetsed in penal reform old outdated prisons should be knocked down and new ones built which give inmates a modicum of space and comfort... this in itself is controversial in some countries my own included.. yet if we are to truly prevent the institutionalising of inmates, and if we pride ourselves as compassionate human beings and have any chance of rehabilitating prisoners as well as making our prisons safer for both inmate and screw, it is a must.. other things need to be done to get anywhere near these aims but without them we may as well give up and let prisoners stew.. and many would be quite happy for that to happen..

[DuckiesDarling]

I do believe every effort should be made to rehabilitate people and stop them reoffending when they are released.. it is better to have people back in society as honest hard working individuals than the drain they are by being locked away. But society on the outside has to change also not simply how people are treated in prison.. jobs have to be created and decent jobs, and proper support for those released.. some we know will always reoffend..in some ways those who enter prison come out more likely to reoffend than before they went in... some are simply too dangeroous to ever release yet we should still make the effort to try and rehabilitate them or at least through the prison system make them relatively sueful human beings contributing something to the world and allowing them opportunities other than being locked away going nuts for 23 hours a day.. that happens here too.. the system makes all of that inevitable to some degree... and many I agree become institutionalised by theie stay particularly those who are serving long sentences or have spent relatively little time on the outside over a long period of time. We should be endeavouring to improve this situation but prisons in the UK at least dont do enough in this area..

Regarding the packing cases, I agree with those that say it is inhuman to provide such accommodation for prisoners.. yet it is equally inhuman to lock someone up in an 8'6 cubby hole for 23 hours a day.. I have two cupboards bigger than that at home and we also have a bedroom of exactly that size.. it is used merely as a "put me up" spare and could never expect a human being to use that as a bedroom for a long term stay. And guests arent locked in and can get out!!! If we are genuinely interetsed in penal reform old outdated prisons should be knocked down and new ones built which give inmates a modicum of space and comfort... this in itself is controversial in some countries my own included.. yet if we are to truly prevent the institutionalising of inmates, and if we pride ourselves as compassionate human beings and have any chance of rehabilitating prisoners as well as making our prisons safer for both inmate and screw, it is a must.. other things need to be done to get anywhere near these aims but without them we may as well give up and let prisoners stew.. and many would be quite happy for that to happen..

That is the point exactly, Fran. Your guests are not locked up. The prisoners in maximum security are the worst of the worst, you also have prisoners in general population that will have a high rate of recividism simply because they can not handle life outside bars. Get out and attempt to live a normal life. Get a job, buy food, have shelter. To some released prisoners they can't handle it. They go commit a crime to get locked back up, where they are told when to take a piss. People suggest halfway houses, well where is the funding? Your pocket? Mine? Not enough taxes in the world would fund halfway houses for the recently released prisoners.

As for the packing crates? I saw the story. It was not a tiny little thing, it was more room than a cell. Which, btw, the cell is a punishment. You know that thing that happens when you break the law? The law... You know those rules of polite society. Of course, I'm sure that most activists would want to know that the person who raped and murdered a 2 year old girl is free to pick his next target and, this time, know enough to not leave evidence behind.

So spare me the sentimental claptrap about inhumanity in prisons, Fran. There is a reason prisons exist and it's not to babysit.

[Long Duck Dong]

I do believe every effort should be made to rehabilitate people and stop them reoffending when they are released.. it is better to have people back in society as honest hard working individuals than the drain they are by being locked away. But society on the outside has to change also not simply how people are treated in prison.. jobs have to be created and decent jobs, and proper support for those released.. some we know will always reoffend..in some ways those who enter prison come out more likely to reoffend than before they went in... some are simply too dangeroous to ever release yet we should still make the effort to try and rehabilitate them or at least through the prison system make them relatively sueful human beings contributing something to the world and allowing them opportunities other than being locked away going nuts for 23 hours a day.. that happens here too.. the system makes all of that inevitable to some degree... and many I agree become institutionalised by theie stay particularly those who are serving long sentences or have spent relatively little time on the outside over a long period of time. We should be endeavouring to improve this situation but prisons in the UK at least dont do enough in this area..

Regarding the packing cases, I agree with those that say it is inhuman to provide such accommodation for prisoners.. yet it is equally inhuman to lock someone up in an 8'6 cubby hole for 23 hours a day.. I have two cupboards bigger than that at home and we also have a bedroom of exactly that size.. it is used merely as a "put me up" spare and could never expect a human being to use that as a bedroom for a long term stay. And guests arent locked in and can get out!!! If we are genuinely interetsed in penal reform old outdated prisons should be knocked down and new ones built which give inmates a modicum of space and comfort... this in itself is controversial in some countries my own included.. yet if we are to truly prevent the institutionalising of inmates, and if we pride ourselves as compassionate human beings and have any chance of rehabilitating prisoners as well as making our prisons safer for both inmate and screw, it is a must.. other things need to be done to get anywhere near these aims but without them we may as well give up and let prisoners stew.. and many would be quite happy for that to happen..

fran... many of us didn't want to come out of prison... as there is no life for us outside of prison......what there is, is your idea of a good life and for many of us, it was a living hell....

in prison, we understood that our cell was our cell, our domain, even in the penal system, it was our cell, our home, we could read, sleep, eat, wash in our cell....

many of us in max sec didn't want your world with all the issues, fighting, taxes, bills, mortgages, insurances, grocery bills, parking fee, car insurance and regos, access to booze and drugs etc.... cos they are the reason that many of those in max sec, ended up in there........

the ones that want out, are the ones that can not handle the idea that they have to say yes sir, no sir, they can not sleep in when they feel like it, they can not flirt with people at a bar and have a one night stand......
they are the ones that could not understand that freedom is not the world that you are in.... its the world we were in, we were free from all the legal responsibilities and laws that you constantly argue with and protest against....

as many of us would have said, the easiest way to remedy your issue with our lives, is to ignore us...... but its people like you that push up the cost of us behind bars cos you want us to have computers, and courses with tutors and full medical care.... if you have to pay for your own computers and courses with tutors and medical bills, then you have to remember that its gonna cost to give us the same thing.......and that is why the cost of keeping society free from us, is costing the taxpayer so much.... you wanted us to have all the stuff... we didn't want it all....

the packing crate cells were rated on the level of a 3 star hotel accommodation, but at a saving of 80k a year per prisoner.. a win / win situation .... but no.....

fran... we don't want your walk in wardrobes, or double bedrooms, we do not need them..... my 8 x 6 cell is slightly smaller than the room that me and DD shared for 3 months, and it suited us just fine......
my cell was secure and I never had to worry about burglars or theft or insurances like I do now.......

we did not have to worry about our partners, as in most cases we did not have partners, we were single, so we were free from responsibilities in relationships, or changing nappies, midnight feeding.......

I created the thread as a way of showing people what life was like on the inside for a bisexual male in a nz max security prison....and how sexuality and sexual issues were not that much of a issue.......for the people that were curious.... not to debate what is right or wrong with prisons or prisoners.....

many of the prisoners actually hate people like you that interfere in their way of life, and think you know better, even tho you have never been behind bars.... cos all you do, is make it worse, not better....

[darkeyes]

Actually prisons do exist for babysitting in a sense do they not?? For people and institutions to babysit and care for those who have offended against society in such as way that their penalty for so offending is to be removed from mainstream society.. and quite rightly so in many if not most cases.. it can be argued, and is argued, even by some right wing politicians (the present Justice secretary of the UK for one) here that not all who are in prison deserve to be there.. and that there are other punishments which can be meted out to those who offend in a minor way better suited to them and to society as a whole.. whether we agree with that or not there is a need for penal servitude.. I dont deny it.. I am not as you claim sentimental about it, quite the contrary.. I merely have what I see is a different approach from those who take a much more hard line punitive view.. I am a liberal when it comes to such matters but that doesnt mean I am stupid about it..

The issue of imprisoning people for the whole of life is one which I actually dont have an issue with.. for some, they will never be fit or safe to be released into society.. I include in this number some murderers, rapists and since you mention it, paedophiles.. there are others who have committed other crimes who also will not and should not be released.. however, I do not in principle like locking a human being away for life, because I believe and most penal experts and reformers on both sides of the political spectrum in this country accept that by so doing, the prospect of spending a life in prison with no hope of release is not conducive to making our prisons safer.. you could restore capital punishment I suppose but you know my views on that.. but even if you did, you would still have more lifers who will be a threat to good order and safety in our prisons.. no solution is ideal.

Of course many are recidivists, I dont deny that for one moment.. nor do I say they should not be imprisoned.. I do say we should attempt to get them not to reoffend by getting them to understand that there is a place for them in the outside world and by providing for them a society where there is that place for them.. yes that means jobs, housing and real prospects for making a life for themselves and living decent law abiding lives.. and many indeed do.. but we have to provide the conditions outside of prison in the outside world where they will not feel the need to reoffend and to convince them by our actions that a law abiding life is worth while.. many will never accept that and will reoffend, but many do see the error of their ways.. most human beings can change their lives around with some effort and with proper support form others.. prisoners are not that different.. many are in the system because of circumstance and are not bad people.. yes many are habitual criminals but even they can often be and are reformed and contribute to our society something worthwhile..

I have no issue whatever of punishing criminals and certainly not of imprisoning them even for life if need be.. but I do have an issue with locking them up and throwing away the key and letting them rot! That is an awful waste of human and financial resources when for many there is an alternative if we but give them the aid and support they need... the waste is a bad enough tragedy, but lowering ourselves to the level of the common criminal by treating them inhumanely and as so much dirt is not something I am particularly proud of..

None of what I say is sentimental Darlin' darlin.. call it crap if you will, but I believe otherwise because how we treat and work with criminal behaviour in this country isnt working.. I'm not so sure it is in the US either... treating people like shit we are always likely to get shit back.. this is possible, even likely in many cases where we do try and rehabilitate and treat people humanely.. yet we are more likely I believe to obtain a positive response from criminals my way than yours.. debatable sure.. cant deny that.. yet the way it is now in both our countries and in many others is crying out out for something different, because thay we deal with criminals and prisons now is hardly a glorious testament to success.. your way has been tried and found wanting.. mine hardly at all yet where it has there have been some encouraging results.. whatever we do its a case of "suck it and see"... your way all weve done is sucked and now we see all we've done is given ourseves an aching jaw, worn our teeth away as well as given ourselves a huge headache in the process...

Prison, like any other human institution is an imperfect way of dealing with other human beings.. yet it is necessary.. however we deal with and treat those who are imprisoned will always be imperfect.. yet it can and must be better.. how that is to be done will and should always be up for debate and mistakes made whatever we put in place... my vision of prison and prison reform is but one way.. there are others.. and mistakes would be made in its implementation but hopefully we would learn from them..

Forget taxation.. no one likes tax but we dont have the American paranoia about tax in the UK.. but if we could get numbers down to even the levels which existed prior to 1979, the year I was born, with crime rates which are roughly similar which we have, we would save several billion in taxation and of course there is the added bonus of billions which those who contribute taxation and other monies and other more practical contributions they would make to stimulate our economy and our society... in theory at least, intitiatives to stop recidivism, give prisoners the opportunity for reform, be decent members of society and get the prison population down, and to make those places, jobs and homes for released criminals of which I have spoken, can be self financing at the very least.. so the tax issue to a huge degree is a red herring.. all thats required is a will to look and and try other ways..

[darkeyes]

fran... many of us didn't want to come out of prison... as there is no life for us outside of prison......what there is, is your idea of a good life and for many of us, it was a living hell....

....

I know Duckie.. but prison should be working to make those incarcerated able to be decent mebers of society where it can.. and society should be there for thsoe people when they are released... I dont argue with that for one minute... some will never make it in the outside world..that does not mean we should not try and help them do just that if we can.. both inside and outside of the penal system..:)