24hr retail

[bigbadmax]

I just read an article on the bible belt.

In todays multiculural and ever changing work environment, can the blue laws and shopping hours be justified? If I want to go buy stuff "after hours" then that is surely my choice not the local or national govt directed by out dated religious guidance.

[tenni]

I'm not sure about the exact situation that you are referring to but there are other aspects that come to mind about 24hr retail. We have had some 24 hour pharmacies here that were based on a large national pharmacy. This puts pressure on smaller businesses to stay open longer. These independent businesses (pharmacy or whatever) can not really afford to stay open if they are not multi national. Well, a lot of smaller pharmacies were forced out of business. Recently, the national/international company was fighting the government about charges for certain drugs. The government was forcing a reduction in charges for certain drugs(since the government paid for these drugs in a lot of cases). The national/international pharmacy had a reaction of closing their stores earlier arguing that they couldn't afford to stay open if the fees were going to be reduced. Bingo...all the small pharmacies are almost all gone. Monopoly says we are cutting back our hours regardless of the buyers who wanted 24 hour service.

No, this is not just a situation of supply demand in modern society whether it is a Shoppers Drug Mart, grocery or Walmart etc. large businesses. I think that workers deserve to be guaranteed time off but religion should not be the control factor behind it either. Large multi national companies should not be permitted to set up business situations and pressure out smaller businesses who can not compete to only withdraw the service when they are the only business left. It seems unethical in some aspects?

[mikey3000]

And they wonder why consumer debt is at an all time high. Do we really need 24 hour shopping at Walmart? I also hate Sunday shopping and try my hardest to not shop if I don't have to. And now they even have shopping on all Holidays too. I even asked some store clerks and YES, they are forced to work on those days. Give me a break.

[bigbadmax]

We have a few 24hr supermarkets which are great as many shiftworkers can now go shopping after work.

Workers are not "forced to work" as per above thread.

We have sunday trading hours... Ok if want that type of thing..bigotted if not.

The one good thing is no blue laws..we are not that backward in the U.K.

Arguing that small business suffers is crap..If you supply then people will demand. My cleaning firm is 24hr.

Should I tell flood/fire/theft victims to eff off til office hours on monday when they call me at 1am sunday?

[AidanS57]

Most of the "blue laws" have either been repealed or are simply not enforced in the US. The only one that is generally enforced is no hard liquor on Sunday and in a lot of places you can't buy beer til til after 12.

I've never been inconvenienced by them because I just don't drink all that much. As for the 24 hour retailers, I like them. I can not count the amount of times I'd be out on the road and realize I'd grabbed an empty can of shaving cream. The brand I like to use that doesn't irritate my face to hell and back I get at Wal-Mart, it's not available at the many truck stops I passed.

People work because they need to work. No one is FORCED to work. Matter of fact there are plenty of people who would love to get a job and just can't in this economy.

Even now that I'm off the road, if I wake up at 3am and want to cook scrambled eggs and realize I am out of eggs, I won't be satisfied til I get eggs. Could I go to a convenience store? Sure, but no telling how fresh they'd be and I'd be tempted to buy a lot of other junk cause I was hungry. So I'd rather actually go to a grocery, which is in most 24hr Wal-Marts, and get some decent eggs and if I suddenly remember coffee creamer it's there too. And won't cost me an arm and a leg for a tiny little container.

Aidan

[tenni]

Big
Would you clarify what you mean by "Blue Laws" and "Sunday trading hours"?

I don't know about your business but I suspect that a cleaning company that is on call 24 hours for flood emergencies is quite different from a small pharmacy that must keep the doors open and pay staff hourly to compete with mega pharmacies that move into not pharmacuetical stuff like milk, food, etc. Shoppers now has more square feet for food than drugs ..lol Grocery stores have pharmacies as well but they close down during the late hours. We have a few 24 hour grocery stores as well where these also pharmacies are..closed between 11pm and 7 am but other sections open (may be a law about that pharmacies can not operate without a pharmacist?). They reduce the number of sections open between 11 pm and 7 am. It is a convenience but at what cost to small business?

Here is has been bad and the small businesses are hurt. Two different countries maybe? Officially, the workers may not be forced to work but they are....subtle ways of getting rid of those who won't.

[bigbadmax]

For clarification:

blue laws- in certain US states, alcohol can not be sold on a sunday.

Sun trading laws in uk state that shops over certain floor space can only trade certain hours.

Debt crisis- surely you cant be that naive to blame store opening times instead of irresponsible banking practices and other world "factors".

[darkeyes]

For clarification:

blue laws- in certain US states, alcohol can not be sold on a sunday.

Sun trading laws in uk state that shops over certain floor space can only trade certain hours.

Debt crisis- surely you cant be that naive to blame store opening times instead of irresponsible banking practices and other world "factors".

In some Hebridean Islands not only cant you buy alcohol on a Sunday, you cant get off the place cos no ferries run.. no shops are open.. no petrol can be got.. no cafes...no business traded cos of the Sabbath.. fun places.. some B&B's dont even do brekkie.. so ifya go there make sure from midnight Saturday to midnight Sunday you're staying somewhere which isnt dead as a dodo..

.. and worse, when I was little, my brother, sister, cousin and I were complained about for playing in a swing park on a Sunday for a bit of fun to relieve the tedium... the "Wee Frees" rule...

[bigbadmax]

Was that with a bottle of bucky Fran (lol) sorry just jokin!

[darkeyes]

Was that with a bottle of bucky Fran (lol) sorry just jokin!

On that same holiday Max, my mum and dad were berated for snogging on the beach (the dirty buggers!!) by a couple of locals on the first Sunday of the holiday.. pleasure on the Sabbath? And in front of the children??? Gosh... I ask you..shocking!!! Mum sorted it PDQ an they soon ran off muttering summat in the Gaelic.. one trusts they were not cursing and swearing on the Sabbath!!!

...and I was only 6 Max.. gimme a break..:tong:

[Bluebiyou]

Jeez.
Yep, quite familiar with blue laws. The bars here/now (taverns/pubs) all close at 2am. The crowds are herded out by the staff. No serving of liquor until after 11am next day. But you can buy beer 24/7 at certain stores.
But hell yeah when I was a kid... a few stores were open for a few hours on Saturday. But Sunday... only stores owned by Jews (this is a literal, not a slight as the only clerks present on Sunday were the Jewish owning family)... and damn few gas (petrol) stations open (small fraction of normally operating gas stations). You already had your car gassed Friday of course. It simply was the way things worked.
Ah, blue laws... yesterday and today...
Hell, one of my favorite incidents of childhood along a similar line was at one of the main city banks. I was there with my father. I was two or three and at that age/height going to the bathroom toilet or drinking from a water fountain always required elevation help from an adult. Well, there it was! A drinking fountain for kids at my height! This bank was cool! They clearly understood! There was a regular one at regular height and a visible water line (which was odd as water lines were normally hidden) running down to the lower one! I ran up to it and started drinking... only to be scooped up by my dad. "That's for colored people." he corrected. "Nooooo." I protested, dumbfounded that he didn't understand it was put there for us little people, and equally dumbfounded as to what 'crayon people' were.
On a more disturbing note, in later life it dawned upon me that a water fountain low enough for a 3 year old to comfortably drink from... must have forced thirsty adult blacks to position themselves like dogs (on their knees). And this was at one of the few major banks in a major city. I believe the city was the largest in our state and the bank was named "Bank of (city)".

[Long Duck Dong]

I just read an article on the bible belt.

In todays multiculural and ever changing work environment, can the blue laws and shopping hours be justified? If I want to go buy stuff "after hours" then that is surely my choice not the local or national govt directed by out dated religious guidance.

religion used to ensure that you have at least one day a week off... then the workers had 2 days off at the weekends cos of the unions, now thats gone..... most workers are working shift work, weekends etc......

I am in NZ, so things are different here, but for the average worker, there is no longer union protection, there is no set 40 hour weeks, there is no quaranteed weekends off, there is only employment contracts and the 30 day hire and fire without issue clause ( it means that I can hire you, fire you after 29 days and you can not take me to court for unfair dismissal )

on the agenda, is the removal of stat holidays, IE easter, xmas etc.... employers want them treated as normal days, ( it used to be that you got paid double time and triple time if you were over 40 hours...now its time and a half and a day in lieu )

once we treated people like people, now they are expendable cos profit comes first.....

last two jobs I worked at.... the first, 12 days on, 2 off...average 11 hour days, and at times I worked 5 weeks straight..... second job 5 months and I got 4 days off in total, cos it was seasonal work and i was the foreman and i was averaging 15-16 hour days.....

maybe religion is bad in peoples eyes, but back then, you were valuable and so was your right to one day off a week......

[darkeyes]

religion used to ensure that you have at least one day a week off... then the workers had 2 days off at the weekends cos of the unions, now thats gone..... most workers are working shift work, weekends etc......

I am in NZ, so things are different here, but for the average worker, there is no longer union protection, there is no set 40 hour weeks, there is no quaranteed weekends off, there is only employment contracts and the 30 day hire and fire without issue clause ( it means that I can hire you, fire you after 29 days and you can not take me to court for unfair dismissal )

on the agenda, is the removal of stat holidays, IE easter, xmas etc.... employers want them treated as normal days, ( it used to be that you got paid double time and triple time if you were over 40 hours...now its time and a half and a day in lieu )

once we treated people like people, now they are expendable cos profit comes first.....

last two jobs I worked at.... the first, 12 days on, 2 off...average 11 hour days, and at times I worked 5 weeks straight..... second job 5 months and I got 4 days off in total, cos it was seasonal work and i was the foreman and i was averaging 15-16 hour days.....

maybe religion is bad in peoples eyes, but back then, you were valuable and so was your right to one day off a week......

Apart from a couple of little niggles that are more to do with living in a different country than anything else.. I agree with you here Duckie.. folk are treated less and less with respect by their employers and more as disposable cattle to be done with as they wish.. one major reason I never shop on Sundays and never go to 24 hour supermarkets.. our life is organised in such a way as to never need to..

I watched a sports clothing store manager dress down very loudly and nastily one of his staff just before xmas on the shop floor.. the girl picked up the nearest garment to hand threw it at him and told him where to stuff his job. Kate and I wrote to the company Chief Executive about this appalling abuse of a human being.. and guess what? We havent even had the courtesy of a reply.. a bit 19th centuryish eh? Kate, bless her, calmly walked up to the manager with about 200 quids worth of gear intended for pressies and said to him "Excuse me darling, could you put that lot back, please? I don't purchase anything from a company that treats its employees like dirt." Several other customers we noted as we began to walk away dropped their prospective purchases on the floor and also walked away..

[bigbadmax]

Apart from a couple of little niggles that are more to do with living in a different country than anything else.. I agree with you here Duckie.. folk are treated less and less with respect by their employers and more as disposable cattle to be done with as they wish.. one major reason I never shop on Sundays and never go to 24 hour supermarkets.. our life is organised in such a way as to never need to..

I watched a sports clothing store manager dress down very loudly and nastily one of his staff just before xmas on the shop floor.. the girl picked up the nearest garment to hand threw it at him and told him where to stuff his job. Kate and I wrote to the company Chief Executive about this appalling abuse of a human being.. and guess what? We havent even had the courtesy of a reply.. a bit 19th centuryish eh? Kate, bless her, calmly walked up to the manager with about 200 quids worth of gear intended for pressies and said to him "Excuse me darling, could you put that lot back, please? I don't purchase anything from a company that treats its employees like dirt." Several other customers we noted as we began to walk away dropped their prospective purchases on the floor and also walked away..

Same thing happened in HARRODS of all places. Really upset ex and me. They sent an e.mail as an apology.. I inturn have voted with my wallet... Used to go to the champagne bar every two weeks or so-they also blew £2000+ of christmass pressies i was going to buy.
OOPS!

[by~his~side]

Two thoughts that I'd like to share-

I live in New Jersey. Not sure which category this falls under but all car dealerships are closed on Sundays. I can never remember a time when they were open on Sundays. Saturdays are the busiest day for car dealerships and I'm thinking that Sundays would be equally as profitable if they were open. So I'm thinking this must be a law and not dealership choice.

I work in a multi doctor dental office that is open one Saturday (not uncommon) AND one Sunday a month (very uncommon for upscale private practice.) It's a hit with the patients as we are booked 2-3 months in advance on both weekend days.

~D~