The shooting tragedy in Tucson

[12voltman59]

I am sure that everyone--even those of you in places other than the US---have heard about the shooting rampage in Tuscon, Arizona that left a number of people dead and many more wounded when a mentally unstable young man took a semi-automatic handgun to an open "meet your congressperson" event at an area supermarket after he opened fire, leaving the Congresswoman fighting for her life and a number of event attendees dead.

I won't get into all the issues this tragic event brings to mind----I merely make a wish that we all put the Congresswoman Gabrielle Gibbons, her family and staff in our thoughts, along with those who died---especially that nine year old girl who was shot and killed---who ironically enough---had been born on September 11, 2001!!!

http://www.windsorstar.com/news/year+shooting+victim+symbol+hope/4082539/story.html

What I find as sad as anything with situations like this---is that we seem to do a very good job in creating way too many people who will do something of this sort.

Stuff like this just kinda rips your heart out!!

[Plumhead2]

The tolerance that I have seen in this forum is an antidote to the actions in Tucson. I see many posters here struggling for understanding as opposed to those in the wider worlds who use hateful actions in order to justify their misunderstandings and intolerance. All those who have died and all those who were wounded are in my thoughts.

[abstruse_ric]

And to think that I used to shop in that Safeway all the time when I lived in Tucson :eek:

I notice that lobbyists, pundits, various political hacks, and even some Congressmen have already cherry picked their favorite facts from this tragedy to bolster whatever point they want to make. Let the American haymaking begin.:(

[bizel]

i try to see good in everything, but i can't see good in that. apart from one mentally ill man off the streets. small comfort. my heart goes out to all involved.

was brought up in new zealand, and even cops don't 'pack heat' there. won't say that's the answer, cos nz still has gun crimes. not even sure tolerance can assist mentally ill gun-packing whackos. so instead, i say a small prayer for the fallen, and those left behind to cope with the tragedy. hugs to all.

[open2both]

Sooo sad.
Bottom line is, the more the general population soars the more of EVERYTHING soars... including NUTS!
Sigh.

[ihavapa]

I have one question as I have listened to and read reports about this incident, where was the security, the police, the secret service, a woman bystander from the crowd knocked the 3rd, yes THIRD magazine of ammo from the hand of the asailant as he attemted to reload. Wasn't there a concerned armed citizen that could have cut this short? I just think the whole ordeal is awful and again if some one says gun control , then think what might have happened if this unhinged person had had a body bomb, enough said I think, just some points to ponder. Ok one last one are we truly free any more in this country? I know I live in a backwoods and rural state, but damn what's going on here. :2cents:

[DuckiesDarling]

Odds are it was a government opertation.

Bullfuckingshit.

There are a lot of things that are still being found out but there is absolutely no way that it was a government operation.

I read an excellent article today and it pretty much summed it up today.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/09/navarrette.arizona/index.html

[darkeyes]

We don't wish to make a political point about firearms as some may expect, merely to express my shock and regret about this tragedy and to offer our condolences to the families of all who are suffering so greatly.

F n K

[12voltman59]

No government operation this--just another whack job that got his hands on a gun, some big clips and tons of ammo!!!!

[Long Duck Dong]

Yes I'm going to pay attention to a preestitute, communist new network and there government mouth piece. NOT!!!!!

well you could pay attention to all the other news networks that are also stating that the shooter had a history of issues and there were a number of indications that the anti politician agenda had been brewing for a while.....

even his remarks on facebook were there for all to see.....

but yeah, it could a government operation..... why waste time on character assassination, political defamation, black mail, trumped up charges etc etc etc..... when you can just spend 10 years or so, working with a unstable person with a agenda, and use them to take out a target that is a low level player in the scheme of things......

hell for all we know lee harvey oswald was actually aiming for JFK's wife cos he had the hots for her and the government may have used the fact that he was a lousy shot, in order to take out JFK......

sighs, we will never know..... but anyways, I am late for my regular anal probing by lil green men from mars..... you know... the ones that are involved in the government conspiracy to stop you finding out that the moon is actually made of green cheese...... and they staged the moon landing in australia at midnight, to keep the illusion going......

[DuckiesDarling]

Happy, everyone likes to blame the government but at times you have to face facts. Whether you like CNN or not there is no denying the coverage of Sheriff Dupnick's blaming the media.

Gabrielle Giffords was too much a Democrat for the Republicans and too Republican for the Democrats, she was truly in the middle. And as was pointed out, in Arizona, the middle of the road is a damned dangerous place to be.

[DuckiesDarling]

Just gives up and wonders if HappyFriends has their tinfoil hat ready.

[Long Duck Dong]

MK ultra...... lol..... what happens when you give a village idiot a idea and some papers to read....... you get a conspiracy theory made up of hair brained ideas, personal opinion and 1% truth.....

MK ultra was the study of mind control and the proving and disproving of theories in regards to stimuli on the human mind.....

20k pages from a study that lasted more than 10 years ??? really ??? there have been government reports and court case paperwork that have run into 100k's of pages and thats after 2 years work........

people with * inside info * also told us the world was going to end, that iraq had weapons of mass destruction and that obama was the anti christ.....

a staged event is a event that is planned.... strangly enuf all the evidence points to the fact the shooter was planning this for the last year at least, if not longer.......

maybe your people with the inside info, would be better stopping things like 911..... not talking about how it was going to happen and how they knew it was going to happen, AFTER it happened.....

there is always * evidence * about how people knew something was going to happen, and it always surfaces after the event, very rarely does it surface before the event.......

please share with us, the links to the sites that list any info pointing to the fact that this was * foreseen * with time and date stamps that show the info was posted at least 3 weeks ago.....

[mikey3000]

I don't know..... All this talk of vitriolic politics, ads with crosshairs, subliminal gun language, and quick changes in the law... you can bet that something is going on behind the scenes. Especially since Westboro Baptist is now going to be picketing at that kittle girl's funeral. All sounds way too easy, like everything fits too nicely.

Lord knows that I'll believe anything now, but past experience has shown that when there's smoke, there's fire. :(

[DuckiesDarling]

The sad fact is Mikey, if WBC pickets at her funeral, they will probably be biting off more than they can chew. I can almost guarantee that anyone with any decency not to mention all the members of the Patriot Guard will be on hand to make sure they don't get anywhere near the family with their crap.

I'd be interested to hear their reasons for the little girl dying though. I mean she was only 9 so obviously she deserved to die. In her incredibly short life I'm sure she made so many enemies and was a stalwart member of the local LGBT and had made plans to hold her own political rallys.... yes the above was sarcasm pure and simple.

The WBC is a group of idiots but I do not ascribe to any conspiracy theorists, they only cloud the issue until none of the facts are facts anymore.

[TaylorMade]

Seems like the murderer was being protected by the government. This is from different preestitute.



Dude, I'm the resident grumpy right-wing nutjob and your theories are striking ME as whacked out.

*Taylor*

[AidanS57]

This was something that just caught everyone off guard no matter the threats that had been made. This was not a big political rally, it was more of a chat. I feel so sorry for all those people killed or injured and I really wish more people would have respect than just start pointing fingers. :2cents:

Aidan.

[mikey3000]

The sad fact is Mikey, if WBC pickets at her funeral, they will probably be biting off more than they can chew. I can almost guarantee that anyone with any decency not to mention all the members of the Patriot Guard will be on hand to make sure they don't get anywhere near the family with their crap.

I'd be interested to hear their reasons for the little girl dying though. I mean she was only 9 so obviously she deserved to die. In her incredibly short life I'm sure she made so many enemies and was a stalwart member of the local LGBT and had made plans to hold her own political rallys.... yes the above was sarcasm pure and simple.

The WBC is a group of idiots but I do not ascribe to any conspiracy theorists, they only cloud the issue until none of the facts are facts anymore.

Westboro Baptist Church to Picket Funeral of 9-Yr-Old Girl Murdered in Tucson
January 9th, 2011 9:08 pm ET.

Westboro Baptist Church says that God sent the shooter to Tucson, Arizona to kill and maim as many people as possible. And the followers of WBC plans on protesting at the funeral of 9 year-old murder victim Christina-Taylor Green.

Christina was born on September 11, 2001, and was shot Saturday morning waiting to meet her Congresswoman, and passed away a short time later at the University of Arizona Medical Center.

According to her father, John, Christina was recently elected to the student council at Mesa Verde Elementary School in Tucson, and has always been interested in politics.

She had also told her parents that she always wanted to help those less fortunate than herself.

It was all too common to hear her say, "We are so blessed. We have the best life."

Christina also enjoyed singing in the church choir at St. Odilia's Catholic Church, where she also just received her First Holy Communion this past Spring.

She was also the only girl on her Canyon del Oro Little League baseball team, The Pirates, where she played 2d Base.

Baseball was in her blood. Her grandfather, former major-league pitcher Dallas Green, was team manager for the Philadelphia Phillies when they won the World Series in 1980.

Meanwhile, At WBC...
Westboro Baptist Church, best known for picketing at the funerals of servicemen killed in combat and taunting the grieving families, has posted a news release which states in part;

THANK GOD FOR THE SHOOTER -- 6 DEAD!

God appointed this rod for your sins! God sent the shooter! This hateful nation unleashed violent veterans on the servants of God at WBC--hoping to silence our kind warning to obey God and flee the wrath to come.

God sent the shooter to shoot you! And He's sitting in Heaven laughing at you!"

WBC prays for your destruction--more shooters, more dead carcasses piling up, young, old, leader and commoner--all. Your doom is upon you!

..

Continue reading on Examiner.com: Westboro Baptist Church to Picket Funeral of 9-Yr-Old Girl Murdered in Tucson - Raleigh Conservative | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in ... z1AhYJy5aJ

[bizel]

this westboro b.c. is seriously sick!! i thought i'd heard it all, and then something like this happens. the tragedy of the shooting was bad enough without whackos like this gloating over it. i know that violence begets violence, but it's so hard to feel sorry for twisted people when you just want to delete them from the world to shut up that destructive dribble. what a shame they are given a voice - anywhere! and what a shame they can't focus their energies on something constructive instead of destructive. it's easy to destroy, any idiot can do that. something that benefits society and changes it gently and lovingly for the better is much harder and so much more rewarding. these people really do not have a clue. shame on them!!




Westboro Baptist Church to Picket Funeral of 9-Yr-Old Girl Murdered in Tucson
January 9th, 2011 9:08 pm ET.

Westboro Baptist Church says that God sent the shooter to Tucson, Arizona to kill and maim as many people as possible. And the followers of WBC plans on protesting at the funeral of 9 year-old murder victim Christina-Taylor Green.

Christina was born on September 11, 2001, and was shot Saturday morning waiting to meet her Congresswoman, and passed away a short time later at the University of Arizona Medical Center.

According to her father, John, Christina was recently elected to the student council at Mesa Verde Elementary School in Tucson, and has always been interested in politics.

She had also told her parents that she always wanted to help those less fortunate than herself.

It was all too common to hear her say, "We are so blessed. We have the best life."

Christina also enjoyed singing in the church choir at St. Odilia's Catholic Church, where she also just received her First Holy Communion this past Spring.

She was also the only girl on her Canyon del Oro Little League baseball team, The Pirates, where she played 2d Base.

Baseball was in her blood. Her grandfather, former major-league pitcher Dallas Green, was team manager for the Philadelphia Phillies when they won the World Series in 1980.

Meanwhile, At WBC...
Westboro Baptist Church, best known for picketing at the funerals of servicemen killed in combat and taunting the grieving families, has posted a news release which states in part;

THANK GOD FOR THE SHOOTER -- 6 DEAD!

God appointed this rod for your sins! God sent the shooter! This hateful nation unleashed violent veterans on the servants of God at WBC--hoping to silence our kind warning to obey God and flee the wrath to come.

God sent the shooter to shoot you! And He's sitting in Heaven laughing at you!"

WBC prays for your destruction--more shooters, more dead carcasses piling up, young, old, leader and commoner--all. Your doom is upon you!

..

Continue reading on Examiner.com: Westboro Baptist Church to Picket Funeral of 9-Yr-Old Girl Murdered in Tucson - Raleigh Conservative | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in ... z1AhYJy5aJ

[mikey3000]

Update: WBC protest cancelled!!! YAY TORONTO!!!!!
102.1 in Toronto is a very cool, urban, smart and LGBTQ friendly radio station in my city.


Toronto Radio Host Makes Deal with Westboro Baptist Church
By Arthur Weinreb
Published Jan 12, 2011
0 comments
0diggsdigg Share Article Print Article Dean Blundell gave the WBC air time to "spew your bologna" in exchange for the church agreeing not to picket funeral of 9-year-old Tucson shooting victim.

On Jan. 11, 2011, Shirley Phelps-Roper appeared on the Dean Blundell Show that is airs weekdays between 5:30am and 10am on 102.1, the Edge, in Toronto.

Phelps-Roper is a member of the Westboro Baptist Church and the daughter of Pastor Fred Phelps and the group is known for picketing the funerals of US soldiers who died in Iraq and Afghanistan. These deaths, claim the church, are God’s wrath for the tolerance of homosexuality and abortion. The church rejoices in these deaths and thinks the slain heroes deserved what they got.

On Jan. 10, 2011, after the shooting in Tucson Arizona, the church issued a press release saying that they intended to picket the funeral of Christina-Taylor Green, 9. She had just been elected to her school’s student council and was excited that she was going to meet a real politician, Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, that morning. Christina-Taylor’s funeral is scheduled for Jan. 13, 2011 in Tuscon.

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Blundell’s Interview with Phelps-Roper
When Phelps-Roper first came on the line, Blundell reminded her of a deal the two made a few years ago. Blundell agreed to let her speak uninterrupted or, in his words, to “spew her garbage” or “spew her bologna.” In exchange she promised the church would cancel the planned picketing of a funeral. The agreement was lived up to.

Phelps-Roper told Blundell if he allowed her to “connect the dots” regarding the Arizona shooting, the church would not picket the “Catholic whorehouse” on Thursday during the funeral of Christina-Taylor Green. At the time, Phelps-Roper made it clear that the church still planned to picket the funerals of the others who were gunned down at the Giffords event.

With only the occasional grunt, Phelps-Roper did speak without interruption from the host. According to her, God sent the shooter to shoot Giffords because she was committing adultery (her husband astronaut Mark Kelly was previously married and divorced), she was pro-abortion, and she voted in Congress against the church. Giffords’ aide deserved to die because he worked with the congresswoman. And God killed Judge Roll because other federal court judges had ruled against the Westboro Baptist Church in the past. Phelps-Roper seemed to take delight in the fact that prior to going to the Safeway store, Roll had been in a “Catholic whorehouse.”

Phelps-Roper was clearly excited and happy about the mass shooting in Tucson. She called it an “amazing simple event” that connected all the dots. At another time in the interview she told Blundell she was “thankful” in the wake of the mass killings.

Images
Because she was so happy that God had sent the shooter, Blundell asked her what she thought of the alleged shooter, Jared Loughner. The talk show host was somewhat taken aback when Phelps-Roper said Loughner was “bat shit crazy” and is going to hell because the bible says “Thou shalt not kill”. Loughner obviously gets no credit for carrying out acts that the church thinks are so wonderful.

Phelps-Roper Later Announced All Tucson Picketing Cancelled
After the deal was called off and the picketing of Christina-Taylor’s funeral had been called off by the church, Phelps-Roper told the Arizona Republic that none of the funerals of the six dead would be picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church. She had made more deals with other radio hosts.

Phelps-Roper will be appearing on the Steve Sanchez show on KXXT in Phoenix. Mike Gallagher, a national radio talk show host also agreed to allow her on his program as long as the picketing of funerals was called off.

Podcast, the Dean Blundell Show, retrieved Jan. 12, 2011



Read more at Suite101: Toronto Radio Host Makes Deal with Westboro Baptist Church http://www.suite101.com/content/toronto-radio-host-makes-deal-with-westboro-baptist-church-a331689#ixzz1ArUFFzhl

[12voltman59]

While I think the views of the Phelps crowd is total BS and like Jihadist Islamic type of beliefs is for the Islamic religion--what these people hold as being Christianity is a total bastardization of and total contradiction of everything Christianity at its best is supposed to be about---I do feel they have their rights to express their vile views in venues other than holding their protests at or near the place that funerals of soldiers, police officers or anyone else takes place is a very vile thing and really should not be allowed----that they will not protest at the funeral of the young lady and get their chance to be on those radio programs instead is an acceptable compromise---but it does go to show them for what they really are----just another group of cynical, headline grabbing, publicity seeking low life scum bags who are hardly any sort of "Christians" by any but the most corrupted and wildly distorted definitions of what Christianity is.

[darkeyes]

Voltie.. even a cursory reading of the worst parts of the new Testament shows just how much of a bastardisation this lot have made of it.. any in depth study shows even the more so that they have nothing in common with Christianity in any way shape or form... I'm trying to find the passages which say "Thou shalt kick up shit at the laying to rest of a human being".. and "Thou hast better be a nasty bastard and take my word in vain or God will send some murdering sod to come and blow you away". I could go on, but thats enough for now..

.. and I don't even believe in God the Creator and Christ the Saviour.. but I live my life in accord with the tenets of Christianity more than ever these daft getts do..

[DuckiesDarling]

Voltie.. even a cursory reading of the worst parts of the new Testament shows just how much of a bastardisation this lot have made of it.. any in depth study shows even the more so that they have nothing in common with Christianity in any way shape or form... I'm trying to find the passages which say "Thou shalt kick up shit at the laying to rest of a human being".. and "Thou hast better be a nasty bastard and take my word in vain or God will send some murdering sod to come and blow you away". I could go on, but thats enough for now..

.. and I don't even believe in God the Creator and Christ the Saviour.. but I live my life in accord with the tenets of Christianity more than ever these daft getts do..

Go reword it to say Old Testament and you might be closer to the truth. But all in all Christianity is bashed for things that a small group does and it does not take into account many members of all walks of life that follow the Christian path and believe they are accountable to only God.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

I'm not going to get into the whole religious aspect of this, because that isnt what this is about. Its about a Whack-job, that took it into what little mind he has, who premeditatedly decided he wanted to kill a political figure, and as many people as possible. I grieve for the family's of all of those killed and wounded, and especially for the family of the little girl killed.
I also applaud the members of the Patriot Guard who were willing to come and stand guard over the last hours that the family would have with their daughter. They came from all over, not just from Arizona, for I know a few that came from as far away as here in Wash state. They stood ready to protect and defend the mourners,the family and friends, and I for one find that highly commendable. Gives me goosebumps to think about and invision.
May the Spirits hold the family members warm in their embrace, and give them some peace one day..
RIP Loves...
Saddened Cat:(

[TaylorMade]

I'm not going to get into the whole religious aspect of this, because that isnt what this is about. Its about a Whack-job, that took it into what little mind he has, who premeditatedly decided he wanted to kill a political figure, and as many people as possible. I grieve for the family's of all of those killed and wounded, and especially for the family of the little girl killed.
I also applaud the members of the Patriot Guard who were willing to come and stand guard over the last hours that the family would have with their daughter. They came from all over, not just from Arizona, for I know a few that came from as far away as here in Wash state. They stood ready to protect and defend the mourners,the family and friends, and I for one find that highly commendable. Gives me goosebumps to think about and invision.
May the Spirits hold the family members warm in their embrace, and give them some peace one day..
RIP Loves...
Saddened Cat:(

This. All about this. I kinda hope the Patriot Guard still comes to watch.

*Taylor*

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Thats a funny word...staged. This wasnt "staged", it wasnt choreographed, or set up. I seriously doubt if this kid was zapped with mind control and sent out to eradicate a budding Congressmwoman. Did he "Scope out" everyone in advance and know Just Who to take down? Again, I doubt it. And to have the tirade on Sirhan Sirhan was a waste of paper.
The ones I pity are his parents. They'll have to live with the stigma of what their kid has done for the rest of their lives, and it is they that will have to carry the burden of shame. The kid was clearly mental, and unfortunately, he'll more than likely get life in prison, or claim insanity. THat part he probably Did stage....
Cat

[12voltman59]

This guy who shot Congresswoman Giffords and the rest had a long running fixation with her--very much along the lines of either the one or several trolls who have plagued this site for the past few years, on and off.

Once you get in the mind of an off balanced person---they can get very much fixated and focused on the object of their madness--and then they become relentless in that fixation.

This person is obviously mentally ill on one level--I just hope that they don't let him to claim to be innocent by reason of insanity in defense of his actions---since he is obviously mentally ill---but it seems that he does have the presence of mind to have premeditated undertaking his crime and that he does know that even though he is "sick" he is aware that his actions were wrong---the the standard of being legally insane is ---does one know if their actions are wrong or not? and if one takes concrete steps to commit the crime that indicates they are not insane or suffering some sort of "mitigating mental defect" by the legal standard---it seems to me there is much evidence already being gathered to indicate that this man was setting himself on the trajectory of committing a crime of this sort. When Congresswoman Giffords set up the public session last Saturday in suburban Tucson---he then decided to use that opportunity to commit his heinous crimes.

[celticmagic]

Odds are it was a government opertation. Sure, you ignoramus...
So was the the attack in the World Trade Center, we never landed in the Moon, and Obama is not an American born citizen...And, it was not an "opertation" but "operation"
instigated by the "Caribou Barbie", wich now have an 9 year old inocent girl blood in her hands, besides the other 5 murdered victims.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

I applaude the efforts of the Patriot Guard, who ate, by the way comprised of 90% Veterans from all wars, who attended the funeral for Christina Taylor Green today. The newspspers said the Biker groups were from Calif and Arizona, but I know for a fact that there were biker groups from all over that attended as "Silent Back-up"
Probably a good thing that the Phelps group decided to back off and not protest this funeral. I am hoping that a law is put into effect that it will be Illegal for them to protest at Any more funerals for Anybody. I know I would sign it in a heartbeat.
RIP Christina, and all of the others as well...
Cat

[Bigguy90035]

When confronted with such a tragic incident, it is natural to try to find some lesson or meaning in it. I doubt there is much to learn from this beyond the obvious, i.e., there are some bad-crazy kooks out there.

Like with any terrorism, personal or political, I think the worst thing is a knee-jerk overreaction. Thanks to the swift intervention of bystanders, it was ended quickly. Excellent first aid and EMS response saved lives. There doesn't seem to be any deeper significance to the shooter's actions: Just the result of one disturbed mind.

Any procedural changes that would interdict a Loughner-type psycho earlier would likely entail curtailing civil rights of many, many people who will never hurt anyone. I think much recent bad law stems from trying to legislate against intent rather than behavior, and it is a slippery slope best avoided.

This is another media-driven event, and everyone with an axe to grind is coming out of the woodwork, not to mention the kooks.

I wish there could be a rational gun control debate. The Second Amendment guarantees gun ownership by private citizens as a check against government tyranny, as the Supreme Court rulings are showing. It is a fundamental right until such time as the Bill of Rights is amended, however archaic or disagreeable as some feel it is.

Pro-gun people get defensive because there are many who would effectively eliminate gun ownership. Just as the First Amendment is defended at the margin over things like pornography, so too is the Second Amendment defended over things like high-capacity magazines. Like the old "yelling FIRE in a theater" argument, there is likewise room under the law for reasonable restrictions.

I would be willing to accept some magazine capacity restrictions if ownership of personal weapons that are tactically equivalent to those used by military and police is recognized as the civil right it is.

Or, change the Bill of Rights. Just don't take my freedom away, because on that same day, just a few miles (and a world) away, over an imaginary line in the dirt, dozens of people were brutally killed in a country that has near universal gun control, unless you're rich, a crook and/or in the government (usually a combination of those three).

What kind of society do you want to live in? I am willing to accept some risk in exchange for liberty, a view that I hope is shared by many in this forum.

[silberwolf1960]

Ok, now it's my turn voice my 2 cents.
No goverment cover-up,yes the shooter should be slowly tortured to death (bring him to me), the WBC is full of shit and yes we did land on the moon.
I'm a Iraqi Freedom vet, with a Purple Heart. I have PTSD on meds for it,thank goodness for medical happy smoke which I can legally buy now. I am probably more into talking smack about our goverment, but wait I have earned that right bi voting and serveing my country and damn near dying for my country.
Those here that think the goverment is covering for the shooter are WRONG!
Get it now get the fuck over yourselves and get your 1950's bomb shelter done and then go live in it and leave the rest of us the fuck alone.

Women and children sleep peaceably at,because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf