A serious topic

[Sparks]

Euthanasia for human beings. How do you feel, and is it appropriate in our cultured world?

[ghytifrdnr]

My initial response is to be repelled by the entire idea. But on second thought, I can see a possible argument in favor of it in the case of politicians. :disgust:

[innaminka]

I am all for Voluntary Euthanasia.
I have seen 2 parents, (my dad and a mum-in-law) a grandparent and a collegue all dying horrible, wasting deaths.
I don't know qbout gramps, but the others - my Mum and my friend especially almost begging the doc to give a quadruple morphine shot so they could end the pain, the indignity .... the hopelesness.
Pray they have invented the little pink pill by the time I am in "God's Waiting Room."

[BI BOYTOY]

well i feel it is up to the person.i use to work in the health care feild and have seen my fair share.my only worrie is people taking advantage of it.their needs to be soom guide lines or something in place. :2cents:

[Long Duck Dong]

the right to die debate.... its a differcult area and one that I have seen, stir up a lot of emotions

I do support enthanasia, plain and simple.... the right to die with diginity and respect should be given to any person

we take a pet to the vet, and bring it peace
abortions are legal
the death penalty is used in many countries around the world
suicide is often used by people as the only way out
its ok to kill somebody in war time

but graceful death by personal choice is something that is not allowed or accepted as a basic human right

as for opponents of euthanasia..... I would perfer that you too are in incredible agony with ineffective pain relief so you can walk a few days in the shoes of a person begging to be allowed to die....before you say, no they must suffer

[Sparks]

With rescpect to life, I abosolutely appreciate your comments. Please, help me in keeping this tread alive. I see the MD on Monday morning and will get the second opinion.

The real second opinion comes form folks like you. Thank you for your understanding, care, concern, and especially your comments on this difficult topic.

Fred

[tigger74]

This Tigg is for voluntary Euthanasia in cases where it is the humane alternative.

It has always galled me that we can make the decision for an animal that is dying a slow and painful death (either through degeneration of vital organs due to old age or some from of terminal disease) to "put it out of it's misery" and yet a human has to suffer the whole long, emotionally draining (for family and friends as well as the individual that is suffering) and dignity robbing proccess. Yes there is pallative care and yes the person can be made comfortable....but a life wtihout truely living it aaaaaaaaaaaaarg!!!!!! These people who know they are terminally ill, and have gone through the battery of tests and the often horrible and debilitating treatments, should be given this option if there is no hope of complete recovery. We are after all sentient beings who should know what is in our best interests!!!

If we left animals in this same condition, suffering away, we would be charged by the RSPCA for neglect!!!!! so we need a RSPCP!!!!!!! :2cents:

I realise that this new found freedom of choice could be abused, but if stringent criteria are laid out with the requirement of a pallative care nurse and doctor authorisation along with a family member AND the "Euthanasee" alot of people taking the easy out option would be reduced significantly.

[ambi53mm]

Long Dong and Tigger echo my thoughts and sentiments exactly. Having worked in the medical field as well, has shown me that there are levels of physical life that are worse than death. It's an antiquated system we have based on a few misguided souls interpretations of something that happened 2000 years ago... Fred...I wish you luck with your exam...and safe journey

Ambi :)

[Mrs.F]

Sparks, I wish you the best always. My prayers are with you.. :angel:

I do believe that if a person is suffering and will continue to suffer till the end that it should be their choice. It's so hard to watch loved one's suffer, getting sicker daily and never really being able to live or be happy. It should be the person's right.

Mrs.F :)

[Sparks]

Once again, thank each and every one of you for your cogent replies. It's helped more than you can imagine. :)

[Tx46M]

Sparks, I wish you the best always. My prayers are with you.. :angel:

I do believe that if a person is suffering and will continue to suffer till the end that it should be their choice. It's so hard to watch loved one's suffer, getting sicker daily and never really being able to live or be happy. It should be the person's right.

Mrs.F :)

I agree......and sorry to hear you are ill Sparks. Truly.

[texasman6172003]

Hi Fred,I believe a person should not have to suffer if they so choose not to. Ito have seen 3 Grandparent's suffer also 2 uncle's and a cousin. My next door neighbor at the time had been our neighbor for 20 year's also sufferd. Ijust wish no one had to. Fred my prayer's will be with you Monday. Good luck .

[Michael623]

My prayers are with you Fred. Will you start a thread about healing next! Please stay positive.

Hugs,
Michael

[APMountianMan]

Hi Sparks,

There is nothing much to add to the voices that have already spoken. Though I do believe that hope springs eternal, I realize that this is something that you are living with. Our hopes and prayers are with you.

:cool:

[NWMtnHawk]

Most of what I feel about this topic has been stated by Tigger, Long Dong, and Ambi as well as the majority of the posts here, . . . talk about a "tough decision", . . Oh My God! I've personally walked down this road and it is gut wrenching to have to watch a loved one suffer-especially when you know there's an option to end the pain. My mother was one of the wisest people I've ever known and she used to have this saying, "A little common sense goes a long ways." I would have to say that if one had the ability to ease the pain and/or suffering of another human being, then they are morally obligated to do so, I truely believe that to be true. Sparks, I don't know you or your situation, but my heart goes out to you as well as my prayers for you my friend. God bless.

[Sparks]

My prayers are with you Fred. Will you start a thread about healing next! Please stay positive.

Hugs,
Michael

With a smile from ear to ear, I will :) !!

[funtimebiman47]

My vote is yes, Im for voluntary euthanasia. My hope is that you and I will be allowed that relief when we are in need of, and ready for it.

Good luck Fred,

Funtime

[julie]

Most of what I feel about this topic has been stated by Tigger, Long Dong, and Ambi as well as the majority of the posts here, . . . talk about a "tough decision", . . Oh My God! I've personally walked down this road and it is gut wrenching to have to watch a loved one suffer-especially when you know there's an option to end the pain. My mother was one of the wisest people I've ever known and she used to have this saying, "A little common sense goes a long ways." I would have to say that if one had the ability to ease the pain and/or suffering of another human being, then they are morally obligated to do so, I truely believe that to be true. Sparks, I don't know you or your situation, but my heart goes out to you as well as my prayers for you my friend. God bless.

i especially like the wisdom passed down from your mum mountainhawk ' a little common sense goes a long way'

... like many others here i have also worked as a nurse, and been privileged enough to be closely involved in caring for people throughout their illnesses..often over many years, through from diagnosis to eventual death..

...here in the UK the general rule of thumb for 'palliative care' is that the persons 'comfort' always has priority over the life threatening potential of the medications/treatments being used to achieve that comfort..

..I believe this is where commonsense and creativity can be used both compassionately and ethically.... especially when psychological discomfort is validated in equal measures to physical pain...

..For me, i am squemish about making these rules more rigid and overtly condoning euthanasia... but that is just me.

I am fearful because as human beings we are so fallable and the responsibility of holding another persons life in our hands is awsome. Plus loved ones may feel tremendous pressure to help someone die because they dont want to let them down.. but actually have no peace about that decision and be haunted by it for the rest of their lives..

..as with any ethical issue nothing is ever clear cut, lots of shades of grey and coulds and maybes

..though i'm not familiar with your situation Sparks, i wish you well and hope all the heartfelt responses here help you in acheiving clarity in your own decision making...

love julie xx

[wellred]

Dear Fred,

I suppose that most rational people envision a painless death. And the “miracles of modern medicine” clearly make the physical aspects of death “comfortable” and without prolonged lingering.

I share only three thoughts, for I know that this question is of poignant importance to you. The first notion is that I urge you (and others in similar situation) to take as much control of your life as possible. Transcend from moment to moment with careful deliberation, grace, and humor. Whatever amount of time and energy is left in our lives, we can own them with our best efforts.

A second concept is that no matter what your best attempts are, you cannot escape pain. The pain of loss – whether of lost life, of lost loved ones, of lost opportunities – is an intrinsic element of life. Even as one considers “mercy killing”, the importance of grieving over loss is central.

A year and half ago, I was given a second chance at life. I had merely one week between diagnosis and the likely potential of death during surgery. I held an optimistic perspective that I would live; yet made certain, with deep pain, to say “good-bye” to those I love.

My final thought is to place your thoughts and energies only on the vision you desire. Self-fulfilling prophecies are the key to goal attainment. Dream your finest dreams.

Heal your soul, heal your body, and know that you are held very dearly.

With love and light,
Red

[CountryLover]

My dad suffered from Alzheimers for 16 yrs. The last 6 yrs he was flat on his back in bed. Mom put her entire life on hold, sequestered herself with this raving dangerous lunatic for years.

Midway through that last 6 yrs, his pacemaker failed. It was the weekend my daughter and her cousin graduated from highschool, and the first time Mom had left his side in years. My Catholic brother and his wife had a FIT, and had Dad resusitated and a new pacemaker installed.

I'm not sure I've forgiven them yet.

Euthenasia is SUCH a slippery slope. Unfortunately, it's a terrible temptation for someone to give into greed or other ulterior motives. I have a real problem with making that decision for someone else, UNLESS they have specifically made a medical directive to that effect.

A good friend of mine made the choice for himself, one beautiful Easter Sunday morning. He had nursed his mother through her final illness with cancer, and had morphine patches left over. He was diagnosed with terminal Hep C, told he was shortly going to be too ill to care for himself and to start looking at nursing homes. Without telling anyone (guess he didn't want his partner or his partner's wife to talk him out of it, never mind all the friends who loved him) he took matters into his own hands, gently and finally.

I can tell you that he left behind a lot of grieving friends and loved ones. We can sorta understand his choice....and still grieve that he made it alone.

[codybear3]

My family has been blessed with good health and long life. On april 27th, my Father will celebrate his 96th year of life. He still drives his truck and take his walks (althought shorter walks every year), and can recount the stories of his childhood with clearity.

But I believe that a person who may have a terminal illness and will suffer greatly due to it should have the choice of being "spared" the indignity that has followed a long battle.

Sparks, I wish you the best in your fight with your illness... :paw: :paw:

[ddbmma]

I firmly support voluntary euthanasia. Every sentient life should have an undenied right in chosing to face its own death with dignity. Others may
oppose that view, that is their choice and no argument from me. We each
find our own paths and the space between us allows us to live in peace. Sometimes we may have to agree to disagree and that's all that can be
said. I think on this subject, such is the case.

[meteast chick]

Fred, I absolutely am in favor of voluntary euthanasia permitting there is someone(i.e.physician, psychiatrist, etc) who supports their decision that their suffering would be worse than death. I would simply be concerned that people would start taking advantage of it in times of great mental suffering, loss or despair that would eventually heal on its own. Thank you for asking, and our prayers are with you in this extremely trying time.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((Sparks))))))))))))))))) ))))))))))))

luv and kisses,
xoxoxoxo
meteast

[rumple4skin]

(((((((((((((( Sparks )))))))))))))))))))
I have read many of your posts and have a lot of respect for you. I truly hope that the visit with the MD gives you some hope. I know from reading your other posts that you will fight at much as you can. I hate to think of you leaving us. My prayers are with you for what that is worth.

I feel the same way as many others who have posted on this topic. I think individuals have the right to make that choice for themselves. I do not think it should be used as a solution to a temporary problem or situations where there are real solutions. I doubt any sane person would.

I do think that if a person knows that there is no chance of recovery and will be suffering they have the right to decide if the suffering is worth it or not. It would be so arrogant and selfish for me to say that someone does not have the right choose euthanasia instead of suffering a slow and painful death.

Whatever path you choose I wish you a good journey,
Rumple

[OralBradley]

I am all for Voluntary Euthanasia.
I have seen 2 parents, (my dad and a mum-in-law) a grandparent and a collegue all dying horrible, wasting deaths.
Pray they have invented the little pink pill by the time I am in "God's Waiting Room."

I, also, have had several family and friends die while being maintained on "life" supports as living vegatables. One was still consious, but a stroke had made her completely immobile so that she could not talk or feed herself. Whenever we visited her eyes begged us for release, but she had made no durable-power-of-attorney so that we could let her go.
I always have an "out" available because age has given me constant pain and I can barely walk. In addition, I have a durable power plus explicit instructions to leave my personal wishes in NO doubt.

[12voltman59]

To Sparks: I hope that all goes well for you and that you come through your illness.

As far as this issue is concerned, for myself--I would chose such a thing but could not make that decision for another unless they made very clear provisions for such action.

I believe that there should be a structure set up that allows individuals the right to freely chose such an option for themselves and that is where the government's role should cease.

About a year or so ago, I heard a very good radio documentary on this issue. One of the people featured in the documentary had been diagnosed with a deadly form of cancer and would up on her death bed at a hospice.

She did make a total recovery, which goes to show--so as long as one is still alive, there is always a possibility of a recovery, however so slight.

Now that she has recovered from her illness, she has become an advocate for this issue and the one thing she stresses is that what is really needed more than euthanasia, is effective pain management for those who are dying, a sentiment expressed by another person featured in the documentary who represented the hospices.

According to both ladies--due to many rules and regulations put forth by the current administration---it has made for a dangerous climate for doctors, hospitals and hospices to use many of the pain management medications currently available because they fear they could run afoul of these laws, rules and regs....of course liability issues from lawsuits also figure in as well.

The report stated the federal government, via the FDA and DEA, has threatened to take away the licenses of doctors and arrest them for prescribing the use of such medication.

So much for "concern for life"---doctors prescribing legal drugs for the uses and in quantities they were designed for---alleviating pain in terminal patients---have been prevented from doing so--use that could do some good.

I wished I could recall the name of the documentary--it had aired on my local public radio station.

As the ladies in the report both pointed out---if effective pain management techiniques were the norm--it would probably make moot the issue of euthanasia--for what people really want is to have a sense of control over their lives and to retain some sense of dignity as they face death.

I think I agree with their position---I would want to die with some dignity and with a relative degree of comfort---not in the most unpleasant ways that some of the most virulent forms of cancer and other illnesses inflict upon their victims.....

[CountryLover]

I worked the cancer wards for years when I was young and impressionable. One doctor told us - What ever she wants, when she wants it. That patient had control, and it made all the difference for her in her last days.

The best I can recommend NOW, is that each one of us has a durable power of attorney and a medical directive filled out, NOTARIZED and filed. Tell all your important people and give them copies: your lawyer, your primary physician, your best friends and your family members. Make your wishes known!

Sparks, I'm new to the site, and sorry we haven't had a chance to become acquainted. Hopefully there will be many chances in the future. :grouphug:

Sara

[jedinudist]

the right to die debate.... its a differcult area and one that I have seen, stir up a lot of emotions

I do support enthanasia, plain and simple.... the right to die with diginity and respect should be given to any person

we take a pet to the vet, and bring it peace
abortions are legal
the death penalty is used in many countries around the world
suicide is often used by people as the only way out
its ok to kill somebody in war time

but graceful death by personal choice is something that is not allowed or accepted as a basic human right

as for opponents of euthanasia..... I would perfer that you too are in incredible agony with ineffective pain relief so you can walk a few days in the shoes of a person begging to be allowed to die....before you say, no they must suffer


I agree 100%

[anne27]

This is a topic that is very full of emotion for me. I was the sole caregiver for my mother for several years as her body was ravished with diabetes that she refused to try and control. "I'll live 'til I die", she always said, but she was wrong. The part that was my mother, a vibrant, stong, spit-and-vinegar type of woman was long dead before her body finally gave out. I watched in horror, doing the best that I could for her, as she slowly lost one leg, then another, then her eyesight, the use of her hands, then her mind, piece by piece by stroke after stroke.
When she had a final, last huge stroke and her brain function was minimal, just enough to keep her body going, the family got together to discuss what needed to be done. The doctors offered a feeding tube to be inserted into her stomach. I stood up and made a speech about the dignity of life and how my mother wouldn't have wanted to live like that and that indeed, it wasn't even really living, just being kept around for us. My niece, who had never once offered any help, called me a 'heartless bitch'. I have never forgiven her for that and probably never will.
After three heartbreaking, gut wenching, soul destroying days of sitting with my mom after the decision was made, my two older sisters alongside, mom finally passed away. It was the most horriffic experience and I still to this day (some 9 years later) have nightmares about the final days of mom's life. I am still haunted by it.

When she had gone into surgery to have her second leg removed, mom asked me to let her die instead. I held her hand and kissed it and told her I couldn't. How I wish I'd been able to obey her wishes now.

No human being should have to go through what my mom went through. As a family, for a long time, we were torn apart by it.

I am sorry if this rambles, but it's still really hard to write about.

Sparks, I wish you all the best. I'm still pretty new here, so we haven't 'met', but my prayers, such as they are, are with you!

[huneypot]

(((((((((((((Sparks)))))))))))))))

I believe that the Body is a "Guesthouse for the Soul".
We are born, live, die and are reborn again.
The body may ware out but the soul lives on.
It is eternal, everlasting, and primordially pure.
My friend, we will all die, by whatever means, but our soul will live on.

I am also a great believer in free choice, as long as it, as much as possible, does not hurt anyone, hense this topic poses ?'s for me regarding the loved one's left behind!

A difficult difficult 1 to call.

My :2cents: is...............free choice

[woolleygirl]

I believe the it is sad that our culture does not count that each and every life is preciouse old or young. We take our elderly for granted they once took care of us now it is our turn. I am the last of seven children a opps child if there ever was one there is a 9 year differance between me and the next. my parents kept me which at times still suprises the hell out of me. I love life and all of its wonderful mysterys why would be want to drag death in to that.

T

[bityme]

I can't believe this thread. There is no such thing as "voluntary euthanasia." What you mean is suicide.
Euthanasia is someone else putting you down. Could be with or without your consent, but it is still the act and decision of someone other that the one who dies.
On Saturday, 4/29/06, I brought my wife home from the hospital with an end-stage secondary sarcoma. That's a cancer caused by the radiation therapy she got for breast cancer 6 years ago. Her survival possibilities-about 27% that she'll live another 5 years.
Right now she's on 20mg of morphine every 4 hours and other drugs for break-through pain. At least 4 or 5 time a day she says "just let me die." But it is not yet time. She still has weeks of chemotherapy available and then surgery to remove the rest of the tumor.
But with all that, she has already decided the point at which she will cease medical treatment. To me that is not euthanasia, it is a life decision. A decision exercisable only by the one who will be remembered.
Don't ever speak of euthanasia. No matter what, none of us have the right to terminate the life of another. We shoudl be, however, cognizant of the requests of our loved ones and assist them in fulfilling their wishes.
And that's my :2cents:

[jedinudist]

I stood up and made a speech about the dignity of life and how my mother wouldn't have wanted to live like that and that indeed, it wasn't even really living, just being kept around for us. My niece, who had never once offered any help, called me a 'heartless bitch'. I have never forgiven her for that and probably never will.

Ignore the ignorant. You were not being heartless. Indeed, you took the stand to make your beliefs and feelings known while trying to prevent the continued pain and suffering of someone you love.

Courageous, not heartless.

I am facing the posibility of very dangerous surgery on the top of my spine and base of my brain, the "complications" of which include death, total paralysis, loss of cognative function, along with a host of other equally appetizing things.

I have talked this over with my beloved wife and have reached the decision- I don't want to be left a breathing piece of meat. I don't want to be a "drooler" unaware of my surroundings like one of my older relatives ended up.

If the possibility of my return is small or none, stop feeding me. No water, no life support, DNR orders. Let me go.

I respect life a great deal. I do not want to cling to it at those costs. It demeans the person and only inflicts pain and turmoil.

This is something everyone should think about and decide, then make those wishes known to your loved ones, and put them on paper!

My aunt had to watch the love of her life die an excrutiatingly painful and slow death due to cancer. It haunts her to this day. I would want to do nothing to prolong that agony for myself or the ones I love.

Would I do anything to save my wife?- yes. I can not imagine life without her. That's why the odds have to fall within the slim to absolute none category, and that has to be backed up by second and third opinions.

Then, I would let her go, if that was her wish. I would join her soon anyway.

We are going to put our wishes in the form of a legal document soon. This is such a hotly debated and personal decision that I would recommend everyone do the same. It would be hard beyond imagination to have to order the end of life support for a loved one who wished it. Harder still to be called a heartless bitch or murderer for doing so because nobody else knew about that person's wishes.

In the end, it is the wish of the sick/injured person that must be respected. Not our own wants and needs.

Death with Dignity? Not the "label" I would choose.

Ending needless suffering is more like it.

just my :2cents:

Peace be to all who must face such things.

[jedinudist]

I will pray for you Sparks. Best of luck!

[julie]

..and prayers for and your wife too married_bi....

I am glad you are able to have such clarity and be able to express your needs so explicitly .. and hopefully, lets hope eh.. your surgery will be successful...

such life and death issues bring with them (to me at least) a reality check of just how precious our short lives are... too short to be living in the shadows for fear of offending others perceptions of us...

:2cents: Julie xx :female:

[jedinudist]

..and prayers for and your wife too married_bi....

I am glad you are able to have such clarity and be able to express your needs so explicitly .. and hopefully, lets hope eh.. your surgery will be successful...

such life and death issues bring with them (to me at least) a reality check of just how precious our short lives are... too short to be living in the shadows for fear of offending others perceptions of us...

:2cents: Julie xx :female:

Thank you, I'm holding on to the hope that surgery will not be needed :)

[julie]

Just for information..this is the latest situation in the UK regards assisted dying and the law

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4763067.stm

cheers Julie

[Sparks]

We shoudl be, however, cognizant of the requests of our loved ones and assist them in fulfilling their wishes.
And that's my :2cents:

This was my point, my firend. Blessings to you and your wife.

[julie]

no surprises really but here are the initial conclusions from the UK day of debate in the House of Lords regards assisted dying...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4763067.stm

although the bill was blocked this time.. i think this subject has certainly aroused much passion and inspired intelligent debate.. i'm encouraged to read such thought provoking ( for me) arguements both for and against changing the present legistation...

Julie

:female:

[Sparks]

Thank you for sharing the link, Julie. Take good care.

Fred

[julie]

Smiles..my pleasure Fred

Reading such varied, well considered opinions within this BBC link reminds me, yet again that there are such huge margins within the bounds of right and wrong.... most conclusions fall within these bounds and are perhaps best simply referred to as difference..

I found the link to the ethics of assisted dying particularly enlightening... exploring the finer details of the hippocratic oath held many parallels( for me) of objective dissection of biblical law... finding the most pertinant example in the hippocratic oath being its pro-life anti abortion stance.

Here in the UK, as a nation at least, we vigilently support the 'a womans right to choose' stance in law. Yet, in current UK law, these same women(and their male counterparts) are unable to extend that choice to their own lives, should their health become so unmanagable they no longer have the physical capacity to take their own life.

Thank you so much Fred for laying your own, extremely intimate, situation bare in these forums so we all, as a community, have the opprtunity to explore our own gut responses to such taboos in a safe and well informed forum.

with love to you Fred as you continue to live with your own reality which inspired this thread in the first place.

julie :female: