It's Official: President Obama signs DADT repeal bill into law!!!!

[12voltman59]

I hardly believe it actually did happen---but the repeal of the US military's Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy is for real--it's now officially US federal law:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gays_in_military

[Long Duck Dong]

the final hurdle has been jumped...... well apart from slow motion changes in the military....... but its good to see......

there was a ex army officer in nz that was gay.... and before the homosexual law reform change in NZ, he used to cruise the public toilets looking for sex....
after the law change he talked about how hard it was being gay in the army and having to hide it.... then one day he was told that he had been reported 57 times to his superiors cos of the public toilet cruising.... his superiors didn't care as it was off base, he was out of uniform and in his personal time..... 3 months after the law reform, he was up on charges of harassment of cadets..... sexual harassment.....

my first CO spoke at a parade about sexuality and zero tolerance for discrimination amongst the troops...and said when he first came out as gay and had a gay partner of 26 years, everybody was shocked.....
he kept it low key and issue free, and was seen as a career man, dedicated to the army and no room for a wife or family....... and he was promoted a few times before retiring....

The right to enlist and serve now exists for LGBT servicemen and women..... I can only hope that they realise * low key and issue free * is not about infringement of rights... its simply about using ya brains.......and it applies to everybody, not just the LGBT

[elian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL2Ed_iKiG4&feature=player_embedded

[elian]

Ask a stupid question..

http://cnsnews.com/cnsnewstv/v/79345

A politician that actually makes sense - it must be a Christmas Miracle!

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Uh huh. Well lets see how long it lasts....I aint holdin my breath, Ya'll. Ya'll forget..I worked for the Govt for 15 years and theres always that "Ok, I've changed my mind and take it back due to unpopular consensus, or peer pressure, so its now null and void" (No offence to Our Void)
Sceptical Cat

[TaylorMade]

Uh huh. Well lets see how long it lasts....I aint holdin my breath, Ya'll. Ya'll forget..I worked for the Govt for 15 years and theres always that "Ok, I've changed my mind and take it back due to unpopular consensus, or peer pressure, so its now null and void" (No offence to Our Void)
Sceptical Cat

Yep. He may have signed it, but for EVERYTHING to come out of the wash will take 6 months if they put a rush on it.

*Taylor*

[Diva667]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncBpJGxND3I


Jane Hamsher: ...There are four things we can look at as can take as lessons in this situation.

...Number two: It was the groups that would not take no for an answer. GetEqual, the 9/11 Healthcare...the first responders -- who came here, who demonstrated ,who chained themselves to the White House, who followed the President around heckled him -- absolutely would not take no for an answer -- got their issues addressed.

Interesting take on it...

[darkeyes]

Peaceful demonstration never achieved a thing.. did it, Diva??;)

[darkeyes]

Uh huh. Well lets see how long it lasts....I aint holdin my breath, Ya'll. Ya'll forget..I worked for the Govt for 15 years and theres always that "Ok, I've changed my mind and take it back due to unpopular consensus, or peer pressure, so its now null and void" (No offence to Our Void)
Sceptical Cat

Homosexuality is still legal in the US, Cat.. and has been for a long time now... no need to fret so.. it will be fine..:)

[darkeyes]

U ole cynic Master Benson darlin'... butyas def rite bout 1 thing.. Obammie is no gr8 hero 2 eitha us in partic or the left n general rite enuff... not that me ev thot 'e wud b.. but the alternative dusn zactly stir us wiv joy eitha... dus she??;)

[lizard-lix]

One of the coolest and most surprising things I have heard about this (at least to me), is that the Marine Commandant, Gen. James Amos, said that the Marines would 'Step Out Smartly' to implement the plan..

Damn, whoda thunk?

Cool for him!

[TaylorMade]

What exactly do you think Obama had to do with this? As far as I can see this happened in spite of Obama not because of him.

Obama just signed the bill but everyone else such as Senators, people who contacted politicians telling them to support the repeal of DADT, ex military GLB-gay, lesbian, and bisexual vets did all of the hard work.

Obama could have ended the discharges for gay, bisexual, and lesbian military personel for over 2 years but he did not.

Obama is NOT a "Fierce advocate" for GLB rights.

LGBT groups have made clear that this is a repeal IN NAME ONLY and that even after the president signs the so-called repeal act GLB soldiers CAN NOT SERVE OPENLY OR HONESTLY and those who do remain subject to prosecution under Don't Ask Don't Tell which REMAINS the law of the land.

So President Obama hangs out his "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner, yet the mission is NOT accomplished and Don't Ask Don't Tell has been repealed in name only. But it appears a large portion of the gay community just want to feel good about something and don't really care to hear the truth of the matter. And all the while gay, bisexual, and lesbian soldiers will continue to be forced to live a lie in order to serve.

It's great that this got done, but please tell me what Obama did to achieve this?

I can tell you what I know--not much. Praise those that actually did help get DADT repealed in name only, but please do enumerate what capital Barry spent to make this happen?

Please, no fairy dust prognostications on how he super-wants to love us, and no psychological dramas about how he truly wants to our super best friend--just a list of what he DID to achieve it.

The "repeal" only deconstructs a hearings and investigation guideline, but doesn't legitimize gay and lesbian service to the country.

I know Obama followers are over the moon that he finally did something for you, and I'm glad you're happy, but we'll all be back to reality soon enough while Barry struggles with his ick factor to same gender marriage.

I sense you are a repeat visitor to our forums, and only time itself can prove me wrong... but you haven't said anything that I can disagree with.

He could have signed a waiver to allow the Arab linguists to stay when that story broke, and potentially shown more political fortitude.

*Taylor*

[Diva667]

Peaceful demonstration never achieved a thing.. did it, Diva??;)

I'm sure Gandhi and MLK would agree with you... :P

[darkeyes]

I'm sure Gandhi and MLK would agree with you... :P

...am sure they wud me luffly....:)

[DuckiesDarling]

I love how you say Obama did nothing....hmm he signed it, he didn't veto it and have to send it back for the two thirds vote to override his veto. Give the man a bit of credit, he's walking a fine line and doing the best he can with the lamest duck Congress we've had in a while.

[Txhubby76]

I'm curious how this will all turn out, but am glad DADT has ended. I was in the Marines under Clinton as a curious and confused youth when I found out the value of DADT one night while drinking with my Corporal. We were drunk and looking at porn when he pressured me into performing certain sex acts on him, which I didn't mind. However, from then on he treated me horribly. I cant even describe the hurt and humiliation that I felt, but because of DADT, I would have been discharged if I had reported his actions. I finally got a medical discharge just to get away from him. Because of his reaction to his own curiosity, I had to leave the military that I loved. Maybe now young men and women can experiment and live as they want without the fear and embarrassment that I went through.

[BobbyGlendinning]

I am in the Army currently. DADT helped thousands of gay men get willingly out of life-threatening situations. The gay community forced this policy change onto the military against all common sense: a majority of the armed forces do not want repeal and 85% of gay servicemembers identified in the military in the most comprehensive Pentagon survey to date do not want to come out of the closet.

The problem is that gay activists focused on officers or people with relatively safe jobs in the Air Force and Navy, who were forced out against their will as experienced adults. These represent a tiny fraction of DADT discharges and are also not the priority of any military policy. Military policy must first minimize the risks posed to young recruits in combat positions in the Marines and Army because they face the greatest risk. I am an E-4 in a high-risk unit and can tell you it is not safe for an 18-year-old to be openly gay where I work. If he is outed, now without DADT he is trapped in the service where he becomes a high risk of suicide, sabotage, fratricide, or other serious mental health risks. In June 2010 there were two suicides in my unit involving sexuality. I wrote to the Advocate, Out, the Los Angeles Times, and many other publications during the debate last year to draw attention to the dangers of repeal, but nobody wanted to hear about gays getting molested, harassed, and driven to suicide in the military because it would undermine their crass political agenda.

I am furious at the gay community for pushing the repeal of DADT for their narcissistic and selfish political agenda. Since it passed, the activists and experts at places like Servicemembers United and the Palm Institute have done nothing to lobby for changes to recruiting, the chaplaincy, EO classifications, sexual assault response, STI prevention, or administrative separations, all of which are going to be life-or-death elements in the implementation of the repeal. Last month my unit was briefed about the implementation of the repeal and I am sorry to tell you that absent outside scrutiny or assistance, the command cobbled together a new policy the best they could, but one which will probably leave gay servicemembers, especially young recruits with little experience in the military, in a much more dangerous situation than what they faced under DADT.

If you focus on recent recruits in dangerous MOS's, DADT was a humane and protective law. The vast majority of discharges were initiated by young people who wanted to leave the military. 98% were honorable and allowed those discharged to leave with full benefits and return to civilian life with experience, training, and a chance to build a career under safer and better conditions given their lifestyle.

It is because of the disastrous handling of DADT repeal that I will never support GLBT rights organizations. They revealed themselves totally impractical, sensationalistic, and selfish. I hope sme-sex marriage never passes and American society stops talking about gay suicides and bullies so we can focus on the challenges we face as people not as subgroups.

If you study what happened when blacks and women were integrated into the military it is far more complicated than a story of civil rights uplift. Fraternization and sexual assault against women cost the military enormous amounts of money and the policies still fail to prevent male-female liaisons from undermining unit cohesion and accomplishing even basic missions. Blacks got into the military and less than 20 years after getting in, civil rights activists were screaming to get recruiters out of black neighborhoods because they were only 11% of the population but they made up 25% of combat fatalities in Vietnam; the latter sacrifice did not appreciably contribute to civil rights advancements, which came about because of activism in the civilian realm anyway.

The repeal of DADT was a disaster and the gay activists who pushed for it without being fully frank about its consequences have blood on their hands. DADT didn't kill anyone, but the repeal already has.

Sincerely,
BG

[niftyshellshock]

I am in the Army currently. DADT helped thousands of gay men get willingly out of life-threatening situations. The gay community forced this policy change onto the military against all common sense: a majority of the armed forces do not want repeal and 85% of gay servicemembers identified in the military in the most comprehensive Pentagon survey to date do not want to come out of the closet.

The problem is that gay activists focused on officers or people with relatively safe jobs in the Air Force and Navy, who were forced out against their will as experienced adults. These represent a tiny fraction of DADT discharges and are also not the priority of any military policy. Military policy must first minimize the risks posed to young recruits in combat positions in the Marines and Army because they face the greatest risk. I am an E-4 in a high-risk unit and can tell you it is not safe for an 18-year-old to be openly gay where I work. If he is outed, now without DADT he is trapped in the service where he becomes a high risk of suicide, sabotage, fratricide, or other serious mental health risks. In June 2010 there were two suicides in my unit involving sexuality. I wrote to the Advocate, Out, the Los Angeles Times, and many other publications during the debate last year to draw attention to the dangers of repeal, but nobody wanted to hear about gays getting molested, harassed, and driven to suicide in the military because it would undermine their crass political agenda.

I am furious at the gay community for pushing the repeal of DADT for their narcissistic and selfish political agenda. Since it passed, the activists and experts at places like Servicemembers United and the Palm Institute have done nothing to lobby for changes to recruiting, the chaplaincy, EO classifications, sexual assault response, STI prevention, or administrative separations, all of which are going to be life-or-death elements in the implementation of the repeal. Last month my unit was briefed about the implementation of the repeal and I am sorry to tell you that absent outside scrutiny or assistance, the command cobbled together a new policy the best they could, but one which will probably leave gay servicemembers, especially young recruits with little experience in the military, in a much more dangerous situation than what they faced under DADT.

If you focus on recent recruits in dangerous MOS's, DADT was a humane and protective law. The vast majority of discharges were initiated by young people who wanted to leave the military. 98% were honorable and allowed those discharged to leave with full benefits and return to civilian life with experience, training, and a chance to build a career under safer and better conditions given their lifestyle.

It is because of the disastrous handling of DADT repeal that I will never support GLBT rights organizations. They revealed themselves totally impractical, sensationalistic, and selfish. I hope sme-sex marriage never passes and American society stops talking about gay suicides and bullies so we can focus on the challenges we face as people not as subgroups.

If you study what happened when blacks and women were integrated into the military it is far more complicated than a story of civil rights uplift. Fraternization and sexual assault against women cost the military enormous amounts of money and the policies still fail to prevent male-female liaisons from undermining unit cohesion and accomplishing even basic missions. Blacks got into the military and less than 20 years after getting in, civil rights activists were screaming to get recruiters out of black neighborhoods because they were only 11% of the population but they made up 25% of combat fatalities in Vietnam; the latter sacrifice did not appreciably contribute to civil rights advancements, which came about because of activism in the civilian realm anyway.

The repeal of DADT was a disaster and the gay activists who pushed for it without being fully frank about its consequences have blood on their hands. DADT didn't kill anyone, but the repeal already has.

Sincerely,
BG

Got news for you, gay marriage is here and well, it's here to stay. You can ignore the fact that we've had the 14th amendment for over 150 years now, but you can't ignore the fact that the right to marry whoever you wanted's been given to the people since Loving v. Virginia.

But hey, keep on fighting from the closet.

[darkeyes]

I am in the Army currently. DADT helped thousands of gay men get willingly out of life-threatening situations. The gay community forced this policy change onto the military against all common sense: a majority of the armed forces do not want repeal and 85% of gay servicemembers identified in the military in the most comprehensive Pentagon survey to date do not want to come out of the closet.

The problem is that gay activists focused on officers or people with relatively safe jobs in the Air Force and Navy, who were forced out against their will as experienced adults. These represent a tiny fraction of DADT discharges and are also not the priority of any military policy. Military policy must first minimize the risks posed to young recruits in combat positions in the Marines and Army because they face the greatest risk. I am an E-4 in a high-risk unit and can tell you it is not safe for an 18-year-old to be openly gay where I work. If he is outed, now without DADT he is trapped in the service where he becomes a high risk of suicide, sabotage, fratricide, or other serious mental health risks. In June 2010 there were two suicides in my unit involving sexuality. I wrote to the Advocate, Out, the Los Angeles Times, and many other publications during the debate last year to draw attention to the dangers of repeal, but nobody wanted to hear about gays getting molested, harassed, and driven to suicide in the military because it would undermine their crass political agenda.

I am furious at the gay community for pushing the repeal of DADT for their narcissistic and selfish political agenda. Since it passed, the activists and experts at places like Servicemembers United and the Palm Institute have done nothing to lobby for changes to recruiting, the chaplaincy, EO classifications, sexual assault response, STI prevention, or administrative separations, all of which are going to be life-or-death elements in the implementation of the repeal. Last month my unit was briefed about the implementation of the repeal and I am sorry to tell you that absent outside scrutiny or assistance, the command cobbled together a new policy the best they could, but one which will probably leave gay servicemembers, especially young recruits with little experience in the military, in a much more dangerous situation than what they faced under DADT.

If you focus on recent recruits in dangerous MOS's, DADT was a humane and protective law. The vast majority of discharges were initiated by young people who wanted to leave the military. 98% were honorable and allowed those discharged to leave with full benefits and return to civilian life with experience, training, and a chance to build a career under safer and better conditions given their lifestyle.

It is because of the disastrous handling of DADT repeal that I will never support GLBT rights organizations. They revealed themselves totally impractical, sensationalistic, and selfish. I hope sme-sex marriage never passes and American society stops talking about gay suicides and bullies so we can focus on the challenges we face as people not as subgroups.

If you study what happened when blacks and women were integrated into the military it is far more complicated than a story of civil rights uplift. Fraternization and sexual assault against women cost the military enormous amounts of money and the policies still fail to prevent male-female liaisons from undermining unit cohesion and accomplishing even basic missions. Blacks got into the military and less than 20 years after getting in, civil rights activists were screaming to get recruiters out of black neighborhoods because they were only 11% of the population but they made up 25% of combat fatalities in Vietnam; the latter sacrifice did not appreciably contribute to civil rights advancements, which came about because of activism in the civilian realm anyway.

The repeal of DADT was a disaster and the gay activists who pushed for it without being fully frank about its consequences have blood on their hands. DADT didn't kill anyone, but the repeal already has.

Sincerely,
BG

Nifty is right... same sex marriage is here now and in a few years will be spread all across the union. Quite right too and long overdue...

.. and your general statement of intent? Well it is a bit 5th column isnt it? Do nothing.. ever.. thats what u are saying really. Aboliton of DADT hasnt killed anyone.. no one has to come out and declare themselves gay or bi.. it isnt compulsory. It grants gay and bi people the same rights as those who are str8. Sexuality may indeed be be the issue over which two people killed themselves, but it was not the cause in itself... more likely the institutionalised anti homosexuality and individual prejudices of certain service people which exists still and will exist for some time to come... its odd how most other western militaries dont envisage the same problems or suffer from the same problems you seem to fear. British soldiers sailors and airmen march proudly with their kind on Pride marches, in full uniform, and that just a decade ago would have been unthinkable.

People dislike people for all sorts of reasons, not just because they happen to be gay or bi... and those same people will sometimes do the most awful things to others out of that personal dislike... even have them killed or drive them to suicide.

No babes.. u solve nothing by keeping a stupid thing like DADT any more than u do by having an outright ban (which in fact DADT still was). It was a misguided attempt to act humanely yet was full of the hypocrisies of old.. that was a botched job.. not its repeal. And if u dont think that DADT bore any responsibility for tragedy in the US military then I suggest u think again...

We are human beings. We are all different and think differently about many things. We like and dislike different things and that will always be. Those differences make us the most amazing species, yet they can also be responsible for many dark acts by humankind... keeping DADT will would never allow gay and bisexual people to be honest and up front about who they are and what they are... it was an oppressive policy which removed from our kind dignity.. many problems will still exist but in time these will lessen as gay and bisexual people become just other servicemen and women, and not the big bogeyman or woman which so many have always made them out to be and which your way would keep them.. second class citizens, or to some, not even human..

Fighting for a cause involves risk.. being successful in attaining a goal involves risk as does its implimentation. People do not change overnight. That takes time. But now that DADT is repealed that time is now given to our kind in your military. There will still be problems and still probably tragedy. Dont blame repeal. Blame human failing for that. The same human failing which prevented repeal for so long and before that did not tolerate the hint of homosexuality in your and other countries militaries. Now gay and bisexual people in your military can join their comrades in other countries militaries and breathe fresh air...

If you believe that black servicemen's sacrfices contributed little to the civilian victory over civil rights think again... that very sacrfice energised the black population and many ex servicement played their part in achieving their rights. As did the families and friends of many who gave the ultimate sacrifice in the service of their country and who were radicalised by those sacrifices to fight for the the same rights as the white population had. Why fight and die for a country when that coutry does nothing for you? Even now race division is still a live issue.. prejudice remains and there is much racism. But I doubt that many black people truly think that the US is a worse place for them than it was for their parents and grandparents in the first near 70 years of the last century.

Regarding women all things cost both in terms of human effort, time and money. Few military women will think life for them is worse than it was for a female service person 20 or 40 or 60 years ago. Yes problems exist... but whose fault is that? Wherever problems arise lessons should be learned and those lessons acted upon toprevent a repeat.

..and I have no doubt that in 40 years for gay and bisexual people there will continue to be much anti gay and bisexual feeling.. but I doubt that those who come after us (although I do hope still to be around in 4 decades time) will believe your country to be a worse place for the non straight community than it was at the time of DADT repeal and of the passing of same sex marriage.