So, what if doesn't get better?

[H0wardmoon]

I wasn't bullied for being bi (I wasn't out then) but for other reasons, probably to do with being "sensitive" and not very good at sports.

A big part of the whole It Gets Better campaign is about showing up the bullies by surviving high school and being successful and all that. The whole "wait until your high school reunion, the nerds will all be millionaires and the jocks will be sweeping floors."

Well, I had the misfortune of excelling in English rather than science or computers. Right now, I work in a retail job. So how, exactly does it get better?
Is it realistic or even right to teach kids that their lives will be sunshine and rainbows after high school?

[TaylorMade]

I planned on doing one, sitting on the couch and drinking a glass of Reisling, watching Top Chef, eating tiramisu. Saying." I just had a really nice bath. The fact that I didn't want to cut my wrists while in there is better. I looked in the mirror w/o clothes, and I liked what I saw. That's better. This may only be grocery store Reisling, and cheap tiramisu, but if you can come out the other side a better person, happy and strong is how it gets better, who cares? You'll find stuff and status is not the reward for this time, the character you've built is."

*Taylor*

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Well, I had the misfortune of excelling in English rather than science or computers. Right now, I work in a retail job. So how, exactly does it get better? Is it realistic or even right to teach kids that their lives will be sunshine and rainbows after high school?

Sure it is. Life is what you make of it. You either live your life with your head held high and be proud and happy that you Have a job and are alive, or you wallow in self pity and walk around with Eeroe syndrome for the rest of your life!
I have a degree in Sociology with emphisis on Viet Nam Veterans with PTSD and how it affects their families. It means diddly-shit, and isnt worth the paper its written upon. I went from a fantastic job with the VA making $1,500 every two weeks plus perks and bennies, and went to working at a small community collage being a mobility aid and tutor to college age students who have mental and physical disabilities.
You have a job, be thankful for that! So many right now Do Not.
High school might have been a tough time, but its the lessons learned from that time that shapes people. A person cant blame high school for the problems they have now, that's a cop out.
Cat

[man65here]

Success is not measured in dollars, but in pride and satisfaction with how you live and feel. Life is better if you are comfortable with yourself.

Be proud of who you are.

[by~his~side]

I think it's about maturity and being able to understand, accept and cope with situations in life.
Life can be hard as an adolescent. It gets easier (hopefully) because we ALL mature (hopefully) and what was drama at 16 is laughable at 32 (hopefully).
It Gets Better. These kids need to hang in there and see that it's true.

~D~

[elian]

People - By Mother Theresa and Kent Keith

People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered;

Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;

Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;

Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;

Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;

Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;

Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;

Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;

Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and GOD.

It was never between you and them, anyway.

[elian]

Is it realistic or even right to teach kids that their lives will be sunshine and rainbows after high school?

Maybe not, but it keeps them alive long enough for them to realize that what they think DOES matter and that they ARE loved. It may keep them from deciding they have nothing to lose and acting out in a terrible way. I would rather a kid wear grunge clothing and play depressing, angry music on a guitar then bring a semi-automatic weapon to school.

If you feel powerless, isolated and everyone is telling you you're better off dead, if you hear that long enough - you start to believe it - ANYTHING positive you can say to reach someone who is desperately demoralized through no fault of their own is worthy.

"Creator didn't promise days without pain, laughter without sorrow, sun without rain, but He did promise strength for the day, comfort for tears, and light for the way."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0lEtJAS_QQ

[falcondfw]

People - By Mother Theresa and Kent Keith

People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered;

Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;

Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;

Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;

Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;

Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;

Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;

Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;

Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and GOD.

It was never between you and them, anyway.

Elian,
That is an awesome, incredible quote. How can anyone deny or decline something written or said by that wonderful woman. Thank you very much. I needed that and a very dear friend of mine will be getting a copy. She needs it even more than i do.

[H0wardmoon]

thanks for all the words of encouragement. It just bothered me when I heard the original Dan Savage comments, which definitely made it sound like it was all about success.

It's not just the queer thing, it's the nerd thing. I was very much the wrong kind of nerd in high school.

[Pasadenacpl2]

Warning: This is going to be uncomfortable to read for some. It is going to sting. It is also chock full of reality. If you are only wanting platitudes then please do not read this post.

********************

I hate bullies. I have a deep seated loathing for them. There is a special ring of hell just for them.

Likewise, I'm not fond of victims. Yeah, I was bullied in high school. So much so that I bought into the victim mentality. What I didn't realize is that I was part of the problem. Bullies are sharks, and I consistently threw out fresh chum into the water surrounding me. I either wasn't smart enough to figure that out, or I was just not taught well. I think it was both. My mother kept telling me to just be more positive, rather than helping me to see the situation clearly. I bought into the idea that they were just mean and that it was all on them. I was a victim. And being a victim, I didn't have to take any responsibility.

Then I grew up.

I don't put chum in the water anymore, unless I want bullies to react (there are uses for this). I act with confidence, even when I don't feel it (fake it till you feel it, Zig Ziegler says). This has led to both catastrophic failures (biting off far more than I could chew skill wise to get a job) to enormous successes (biting off more than I could chew and then succeeding anyway to get a job).

As far as it getting better? It does, if you make the right choices. If you don't, they have long term consequences. Success isn't based off intelligence. It's based off hard work, dedication, creativity, willingness to risk, a little luck, and knowing how to sell what you have to someone who probably didn't need it in the first place (this is true of sales as well as personal relations).

If you haven't made the right choices, then no. It won't get better until you do. If you are working retail, and you don't' see that as success, then get out of it. Go do something else. Take a risk. Take a chance. Or don't. Just take ownership of your life either way. Until you do, it probably will be the same.

I know that probably wasn't what you wanted to hear. But, it is the truth about life as I understand it. I'd rather tell you the truth than give you another round of sugar coating.

Pasa

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

I was taught a very valuable thing when I was a kid, and I've adhered to it all of these years. A very very wise man told me once (A couple thousand years ago...) "Don't Try...DO. And, "If its to be, it begins with Me"

Think about this, and Dont Try..Do. :}
Cat

[falcondfw]

Saying "I'll try" or "I'll do my best" is planning to fail. You already have a ready made excuse "Well, I TRIED my best."
You have gotten some good advice on here. No just go out and DO.
If you are not happy, change it. If you don't know how, find out (The internet is full of knowledge). Stop making excuses and DO something about it. Or not ... and live with what you have.

[elian]

thanks for all the words of encouragement. It just bothered me when I heard the original Dan Savage comments, which definitely made it sound like it was all about success.

It's not just the queer thing, it's the nerd thing. I was very much the wrong kind of nerd in high school.

Ah, a radio commentator. It is their business to make you want to tune in again and again - and sometimes they will say anything just to get a reaction.

I remember one time I was listening along with a client's radio while I was fixing a computer problem. Apparently Obama suggested that people put the correct tire pressure or maybe one or two more pounds in the tires of their cars to help boost MPG. Rush Limbaugh was going on and on - railing for an hour about how there was going to be a nationwide catastrophe because all of the people who drive cars in America are going to over inflate their tires and cause massive blowouts.

[Bluebiyou]

...
Is it realistic or even right to teach kids that their lives will be sunshine and rainbows after high school?

Ah Howard,
you already know the answer(s).

1.
Life is mostly what you make it. Metaphorically, there are happy slaves and miserable kings.
"I've found that folks are about as happy as they've made their mind up to be" (commonly attributed to Abraham Lincoln).

2.
Life sucks throughout our entire existence, if we focus on the negative. We aren't held enough, not enough tit/milk. Parents never let us have any fun. We didn't get that one special toy. The kids pick on me in school. Homework invades on my personal time. Why can't I do grown up things? Why do I have to wait to 21 to drink (I'm so mature for my age)? Why isn't the workplace more fair like school? Why can't the person I fall in love with fall in love with me? Why do my rent and utilities cost more per month than the cool stuff I'd rather buy? Why do I have to work so hard to support my kids/family? Why don't my kids listen? Why is/did someone try to kill me/one of my family? Why do my kids have to get into so much trouble? Why isn't the world fair to my kids? Why can't the kids do something better for a living? Why can't they marry someone decent? Arthritis hits. Retirement is not practical. I need meds, they're too expensive. Why do young people take advantage of us old people so consistently? Why can't I even do simple tasks for myself anymore? Why can't I remember anything? Why am I so helpless?

*Sigh*
Plenty to support the thesis 'life sucks' throughout our entire existence... if that is what we focus on.
Or,
3.
you can hold hope in your heart, and life can be an endless opportunity to love and to have fun. Life will still have many bad moments. I'm not trying to gloss over that or suggest you should neurotically brainwash-via-happy-happy-thoughts your way through the hard events and truths in life, but when the bad moments are over you can get back on the higher road.

Plus, I love the quote from Mother Teresa.

[DuckiesDarling]

Enough with the fucking spam of those links, please. Dan Savage is an old issue here. There is no need to keep bringing up every thread and posting the same links. Once is enough. K, thanks.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Maybe you should have put this on the other "Dislike Savage" thread, Hon.:}
Cat

[tenni]

I found that it took me about four or five minutes to read the first link that I Suck" posted. The fact that DD posted an emotional outburst within a minute of the actual post of I Suck is telling and confusing. I read only one of the links and I can understand the link to this thread about things not getting better...the counter to the campaign started by Savage. I don't pay too much attention to him but have enjoyed some of his columns.

Then we have Cat jumping in condemning I Suck as placing his post in the wrong thread?.Wow!

Although I thought that the campaign was a worthwhile attempt to lift the spirits of those bisexuals , gays & transexuals, it is a good idea to see if anything other than a banner type of statement. Especially, since a few months have passed. Did that spur of celebrity statement help? I think that it is possible that things do get better and it was worth pointing this out. If it doesn't get better and you find yourself being bullied as an adult, what can or should you do? I've just thought... ...were the two ladies case attempting to bully and control I Suck? just a thought. Bullying may change its format and approach in adults. Most adults develop social skills to deal with bullies but sometimes they exist in the workplace...or even a website.

[DuckiesDarling]

Hey Tenni, maybe you should check that three out of four of Isucks last posts are the same links with the same things about the same person. I am on, I am reading forums I saw the posts as soon as they were made.

[bizel]

i heard someone once say, if you want your kids to be happy, don't send them to school. i know school is a necessary evil (it trains us for society, look how sick that can be. it trains us to ignore the things that make us happy - well, that's been my and my friends experience. i hated school. i'm not bi/gay but had a father that used me as a punching bag. he alienated our neighbours in a tough neighbourhood, so i had the local kids hating me. i didn't know what i wanted to do after school and had one counsellor tell me it didn't matter cos i'd get married and have kids so don't worry. shit is shit. people throw words around without any thought. and and kids are sponges, they absorb. it happens to us all.

but once you leave school, the world really is your oyster. you are now an adult - where you end up is the result of your choices. it's no good blaming outside influences anymore cos ultimately we decided - we are responsible for our own destiny. and that's what's good cos you can change your choice anytime you want. so, what do you really want? what does success means what to you?? money, love of a family, looks? choose a goal, focus on it, and you will achieve it. i want a little money in the bank, the love of a good man, for my family to know i love and respect them, a handful of close friends who if i'm in dire straits will come to my aid.... hey, i'm a success!! i have all that (well, hubby's not with me, but he isn't talking divorce - i think - long story, read my threads if you need something to help you sleep lol). i don't want 15 mins fame, i don't want a huge mansion, i don't want a string of cars. i just want enough and to be happy. and i'm grateful every day for what i have. you may think your life sucks, but believe me, there are people on life-support in hospital, or suffering lingering painful conditions who would love to have your problems. be grateful for what you have and stop focusing on what you are resenting. instead, focus on what you do want. big hug,b

[tenni]

Hey Tenni, maybe you should check that three out of four of Isucks last posts are the same links with the same things about the same person. I am on, I am reading forums I saw the posts as soon as they were made.

I wish that you would get it through your head that no one has hired you to act as the police or monitor for this site. You are not the counsellor of this site either. Mind your own business.

[Long Duck Dong]

I wish that you would get it through your head that no one has hired you to act as the police or monitor for this site. You are not the counsellor of this site either. Mind your own business.

3 threads all with the same links abusing dan savage....... I quess you support bumping old threads and spamming links tenni......

most of us don't do that or need to do that.... but it seems like its acceptable for LGBT people do that that but not acceptable for straight people to comment about it....

since the remarks were to isuck.... how come you are acting like the police and monitor and passing judgement.....???? as you are a person that is known for being unaccepting of people in the site that you deem undsuitable

[DuckiesDarling]

So tell me I suck and swallow, exactly what slamming the person who is responsible for the "It Get's Better Project" going to do for bisexuals? Pardon me, I thought the aim of the project was to help in the wake of the growing number of teen suicides due to being bullied over their sexual nature. For that reason I posted the link when it first came up. http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10173

I am not a Dan Savage supporter, honestly he doesn't even rate on my lists of concerns in this world and what he has a personal opinion about doesn't mean beans to me. That he stepped forward and orchestrated a project that has a chance of saving one person's life is what I respect.

What I questioned was you posting the same links in three seperate threads, and that my dear, is spam.

Tenni, have a nice fucking day :)

[Long Duck Dong]

I have read other posts of yours Long Duck where even you are critical of his "It gets better" project so therefore even you are "abusing" Dan Savage.

yes, you have read other posts.... but have I bumped two old threads and used a third to post the same opinion and links ?????

dan savage was in this site and people took him to task over his remarks, in his own threads..... so we know about him and we generally ignored his crap.... so you try and spam the forums with his crap.....

thats a bit like telling people to ignore the wbc but you need to tell them what the hell the wbc is cos most people do not know about them anyway.... so that people will be offended and worked up and the WBC will get more attention and their crap spread across more forums.....

simple case of what people do not know, doesn't affect them.... but people like you have not worked that one out yet....... cos you are blinded by your own biased.....

[Long Duck Dong]

Long Duck I've seen you bump old threads and go on about certain subjects such as monogamy and celibacy, or your issues with bisexuals writing about this in new threads.

So where and when was Dan Savage somehow posting on this site?

I did a search and I never saw any posts by him at all.

I did see one old thread which I did reply to but I replied with actual examples of his transphobia and biphobia which is something that nobody else did in that thread or in other threads about Dan Savage.

What I wrote in the thread about Conservatives and right wing politicians is correct, there are people like Dan Savage who claim that they are for equality in the GLBT community and for GLBT rights but they are not since they are biphobic and transphobic.

Like Dan Savage does these GLBT people claim that they are supposed to be on our side but they are biphobic and transphobic.

Yes what Savage says and claims as fact when it's not true, does effect us and most people on this site if they are bisexual or Trans.


show what old threads... cos I am too bloody lazy to bump old threads like you did and post in them with the same posts that I put in a recent thread

now as for dan.... do a member search and you will notice the name doesn't exist..... but do a search for a person like falconangel, and you will notice they do not show up either... yet there are posts in the site by them.....
the reason they do not show up, is they are banned.....

deleted posts and threads are the same... they cease to exist in the site....

so put two and two together and you see what happened in the site, to your mate dan.... now add another 2 and you realise what I said was true..... we could not give a rats ass about him and his stance......

you are the one pushing a agenda in the site,... and getting annoyed cos we are not overreacting..... so my suggestion is that you get over it.....

what dan may say or do or think, only really matters in the minds of the people like you that are reacting to it or pushing your own opinion down others throats in the same way you act in the threads about stds etc

as for my stance on monogamy and celibacy.... well mr troll.....I still remember the last time you went after me, on that issue, and others on the issue of stds etc..... you have just left out the mental issue bit this time... but I am patient.... I give you about another 2 weeks to go after me on that aspect......

[bizel]

hey, howard, sorry your thread seems to have gotten out of hand with dan what-ever-his-name-is. you have a genuine worry and that should be what we're talking about, and giving you our support over. look, life is what you make of it. if you go looking for failure, you will find it. equally, if you go looking for success, you will find it. what is your passion? what would you get out of bed to do, even if you didn't get paid? obviously what you are presently doing, isn't it. if you can't find a job to satisfy you, look for other outlets. i am for trying indoor rock climbing. i'm not the fittest, or lightest, but have finally given up caring what others think. i woke up 47yrs old and realised half my life is over. i'm not wasting the rest of it. i want live a happy life. i want to look back and go, yeah, i did that! i want to achieve things that make me feel good about myself. make a list, and stick religiously to it. don't let anyone sway you from your goals. from achieving them, you will build confidence, you will be happier, and one day, you'll jump out of bed eager to face the day(if you want a loving partner, they'll be turned on by your inner confidence). biggest hug, b.

p.s. tried to send this as a pm, but you have exceeded your message bank. if you delete some, others may also reply. b

[tenni]

I Suck
Ok...I see a connection to the thread topic about what it it doesn't get better and Dan Savage as the orginator of the statement. However, even if Savage is prejudice towards bisexuals and transexuals, how does this directly negate the campaign about "It Gets Better"? I believe that the campaign was not specifically excluding bisexuals and transexuals, did it?

More important to this thread, is the question what if it doesn't get better(as you mature)? I think that is a valid question. Many of the celebs stated that it did get better for them. I don't recall any of the PA's mentioning Savage. I wonder how many even care whether it was Savage who originated it.

[Long Duck Dong]

Long Duck-What are you talking about?

Dan is not my friend/mate and he's never ever posted on this site at all so why are you claiming that he somehow has?

I've never went after you about monogamy and celibacy. You do like to go on about these subjects in threads even when the thread or topic in the thread has nothing to do with monogamy or celibacy.

Don't reply again unless you're going to write something that actually makes sense that can be read and understood instead of having your girlfriend claim that I'm somehow posting spam, when I'm writing in topics about Dan Savage that have to do with how he is a bigot.

No, not everyone knows this about Dan Savage and how he's bigoted toward bisexuals and Trans people. Many people assume that because he's a gay man he is for the rights of bisexuals and Trans people and that he understands us but he does not. He does give off misinformation about both bisexuality and transgender people.


the term friend was used in a sarcastic sense...... I am sorry that you failed to realise that .....

now I am curious about the monogamy and celibacy aspects that you refer to...as I never mentioned them in this thread... you brought it into this thread, I generally restrict that aspect to threads where its relevant and I am quick to make it clear that monogamy is a choice and the same with celibacy and that I respect others choices of relationships such as open marriages and relationships..... but also I am very big on respect and honesty in relationships......in ANY relationship, regardless of sexuality....

but most of that stuff was last year...you joined in January....

now about the list of old threads that I post in that you mentioned.... mmm have you got that list yet...... as I am interested to see what threads you are refering too


and last but not least.... tenni and DD and a few others, have a very valid set of points..... and I tend to stand beside them on that...... including the fact that they both posted their opinion in one thread, you needed 3 threads to say the same thing.....

[Long Duck Dong]

Because Savage is biphobic and transphobic there are many bisexuals and Trans people, and even gay men and lesbians who are not fond of him, who refuse to get involved with his "It gets better" project at all.

What Trans people and bisexuals know to expect from Dan Savage is spreading horrible misinformation, double-standards, and other transphobic and biphobic crap.

Read the links I have posted and you will see what I am talking about.

Just the fact that Dan's name is attached to this project makes it known that it is not friendly to trans people or bisexuals.


honestly dude, your stance would carry more weight iif you were not so clear on your own profile about how you were not interested in chubby / trans / fem males yourself......

now thats a personal choice and perference, and I accept that,,, its your personal choice, but I can not help but notice that you were so quick to go after others in the std threads around their personal preferences and tell them how they were wrong cos they were interested in safer sex....

btw, as I have pointed out to other people like you... my sister died from aids... from a single encounter.... so much for all the odds


so how about you take some of your own forceful and vocal energy and start your own campaign to teach people the truth according to you...... and that is something I often say to most of the * opinionated and vocal * people that are quick to point out the holes in other people.....

[tenni]

"Just the fact that Dan's name is attached to this project makes it known that it is not friendly to trans people or bisexuals."

Ok, if that is so then I am uncomfortable with such an attitude. I can understand why though. It is a bit sad as the reason for having the campaign should be separated from any emotional attachment to the orginator. It seems like stating that a bigot may not have a good idea to stop bullying?

I may be incorrect but I thought that I read somewhere where Savage was accused of refusing to become more active in the "It gets Better" campaign? If that is so then would there not be two camps refusing to try to help GLBT youth in dealing with bullying? That seems a bit sad and unfortunate. It also seems that the campaign is no longer very active but that may only be where I live? The campaign was only a bandaid to make "us" (general public do gooders) feel better over GLBT youth suicides at one point in time.

As Howard pointed out with the purpose of this thread, what if it doesn't get better? Does the campaign have any benefit beyond making the public feel comforted in thinking that "It Gets Better" campaign is helping. It shouldn't be about Savage and his accused bigotry towards bisexuals and Transexuals imo.

[_Joe_]

I've told my kids that life isn't rainbows and unicorns, but you also get out what you put in. I refuse to raise them thinking everything from money to happiness will be simply handed to them.

[newbie in de.]

i do the best i can with what i can.i've already made my day better.