Why all the fuss about airport scanners and pat downs?

[mikey3000]

I fly several times a year to and from the U.S. and I don't mind. Sure, look at my junk if you like. Don't care. Pat me down? Go for it. You just bloody well take your time and do a very thorough job. :bigrin:.

Why all the fuss?

[MarieDelta]

Because some of us have parts that arent standard...

[DuckiesDarling]

I don't mind the security measures but I did recently see a story on the news that pissed me off. It was of a breast cancer survivor being forced to strip to her underwear and show her prosthesis because something was setting the scanner off.

[TaylorMade]

Because some of us have parts that arent standard...

I totally forgot about that. If they are doing what DD's claiming, who's to stop them from making travel suck for trans people? Brrr. They're doing this ish to kids too.

This could be like the time I saw a headline about some uberconservative religious leader and Amnesty International pressuring the DOJ about sexual assault in prison.

*Taylor*

[Hephaestion]

I don't mind the security measures but I did recently see a story on the news that pissed me off. It was of a breast cancer survivor being forced to strip to her underwear and show her prosthesis because something was setting the scanner off.

Was the strip in a modesty area or was it on full view to the rest of the travellers?

[DuckiesDarling]

I don't know I just caught it at the tale end. I'll try and find a link.


Found the link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40278427/ns/travel-news

Reading the full story it appears that she declined to be scanned because of radiation concerns and was patted down instead. Still the experience left her pretty angry and I can't blame her.

[MarieDelta]

They are doing it for trans* folk.

Saw a post of Calpernia Adam's feed about it.

To me this seems to be moving in the wrong direction. We've become fearful and reactionary.

On the other hand maybe we could force them to hire a MtF and FtM to frisk down trans folks? (J/k)

[lizard-lix]

I travel a lot for work and have titanium/ceramic hips so I get the full treatment every time. Hell I set off the alarm 2 lanes over :-)

Personally I have been begging for the body scanners since I heard they were available and working. They are fast, accurate and do not involve me ending up taking as long to get my clothing back together after the inevitable pat-down search. I've been practically stripped to the skin in the open coming back from Europe when in the US soil part of the airport.

I believe the radiation is less than you get from actually flying (higher altitude, less atmosphere, more exposure than on the ground), at least on longer flights.

I was 'lucky' enough to get the 'enhanced' pat down the very first morning they started doing it, my TSA guy was bathed (usually now, often not back in the early days of TSA). I had it done in the open, and it was no big deal (OK, I am not body shy). One thing I have found over time, if you are cooperative and polite, they will work with you almost all of the time to accommodate your needs. Yes there are assholes and at 3 PM on a Friday in DC, they won't do shit for anybody...

If the intent is to really find any contraband, this search/scan process is the first one that actually works.

If anyone wants to fondle my junk, I'll just stand there and smile.

We (the collective 'we') said we want to be safe while flying (not that it is a possibilty), and the TSA has responded, often foolishly IMHO, but this time they actually did the job right.

I am sooo sick of people making such a big deal over it.

The person who views the scans is in a building in another part of the airport, they have no idea what your face looks like.

Even if they did, I guess I can't work up the ego to think that anyone would actually care about what i look like under my clothing when they are screening thousands of people a day.

And I guess that is my real complaint about all the complaints, people should get over themselves, no one cares what you look like. The one potential issue there is if they give any grief to Trans or CD people.. That would just be wrong. However in the case of CD folks, there may be laws about traveling in 'disguise'. I do not know.

Hope ya'll get to join the mile high club :-)

Liz

[clovermoon]

I think it is fine we need more of this like home inspections, random ID checks, wire taps, mandatory citizenship classes, turn in your neighbor programs, and etc.

It worked so well in East Germany.

[Committed bi guy]

Not too sure about the CD issue but several years ago I was stopped after going through the metal detector at an airport because of the metal button on my jeans. The TSA guy working the section asked me to open my belt and waist button, which I did without thinking much about it. Opening my waist button exposed the lace waistband of my panties and the guy seemed much more embarrassed than I could have been. He waved me through looking rather relieved to see me out of there. These folks see just about everything and I don't really think they are in it for the jollies. I don't plan on changing my choice of clothing because of this but then again, I don't normally dress or fly in full drag, which may cause an issue.

[fredtyg]

"Those who would give up liberty for a sense of security deserve neither liberty nor security."- Ben Franklin

[mikey3000]

I think it is fine we need more of this like home inspections, random ID checks, wire taps, mandatory citizenship classes, turn in your neighbor programs, and etc.

It worked so well in East Germany.

And it's working just fine the the U.S.A. too.

http://www.life.com/image/2025621

I see these signs all over New York & Maryland when I go.

[fredtyg]

The worst part of this, imo, is that people have come to accept the loss of their freedoms with just a shrug of the shoulders. Steve Greenhut explains in this commentary (http://articles.ocregister.com/2010-11-19/news/24844491_1_tsa-official-security-threat-x-ray-scanners). The commentary runs in three parts so be sure to use the links on the bottom right of the article.

"Necessity is the plea made for every infringement of human liberty. It is the argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves."- William Pitt

[eddievb91]

its all reactionary and doesnt do anything to weed out the suspicious. and will it really stop some idiot from hiding a plastic explosive in his ass?

[open2both]

It's a new and DANGEROUS world.
SECURITY is IMPERATIVE!
If you're too shy... TAKE THE BUS!

[BiBedBud]

Privacy issues aside; and not in contemplation of how this kind of Orwellian social conditioning will inevitably lead us to a police state; there are serious health issues at stake. Yeah, I know, a lot has been made about how low a dose of ionizing radiation these machines will zap you with, but THAT’S EXACTLY THE PROBLEM. You see, when the human body receives a heavy dose of ionizing radiation, it kills cells outright, and this is what shows up as radiation burns. But, when the human body receives a low dose – especially a very low dose – the cells in the body are not killed outright, but some are certainly *altered*. These altered cells, with their damaged DNA, can CAUSE CANCER. This is a medical fact. Indeed, you can receive such a low dose of radiation, and go on about your business, oblivious to the fact that you’ve been fatally injured, until those cancer cells grow and spread and become the real-deal, perhaps some years down the line. Get it right people: cause and effect may not be closely related in time or space – and all these machines offer is convenience at the cost of an increased risk of cancer. (No thanks, I’ll have the pat-down.)

Moreover, how did the US FDA ascertain the safety of these machines? (Never mind their very long track record of approving drugs and medical devices that kill and injure.) Were there clinical trials for safety? How often are these machines calibrated? Who checks on them? Does every traveller really get the same dose? Is the dose level even across the whole array (which would surprise me tremendously, especially considering how these machines were rushed into production and installed all over the place). Exactly what is the effect of this radiation on testes, ovaries, sperm, ovum and developing foetuses? (I know this hasn’t been studied, and cannot be quantified until you’re looking at birth defects.)

Another thing; Let’s say you’ve got an implanted medical device inside your body that contains metal (which is much denser than human tissues); is there not an increased cancer risk for these people, because the radiation will ‘destabilize’ metal atoms and create radioactive isotopes that will continuously dose surrounding tissues over the long term? That’s right: you can make steel (or anything) radioactive by bombarding it with ionizing radiation. This is a scientific fact.

For these reasons and a few more that are well-grounded in my not-too-shabby understanding of science: I will never opt for a full-body scanner that uses ionizing radiation. (Note that the devices which employ radio frequencies are probably safe, IMO.) I would much rather be patted-down or even remove all of my clothing, than to walk into one of these *experimental* devices.

One last thing: The world has already seen the first ‘cavity bomb’, with al Qaeda’s attempt at assassinating Saudi Prince Mohammed Bin Nayef, head of the Kindom’s counter terrorism operations. The bomb was hidden in the terrorist’s anus, and was triggered remotely with a cell phone. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/28/eveningnews/main5347847.shtml

So, what’s the point of all this? It’s ‘security theatre’; nothing but window dressing – and completely irrelevant to countering AQ’s latest tactic, which uses (largely unscreened) air cargo that travels in the belly of commercial airliners. This whole thing with full-body scanners is just to give sheeple the false impression that their politicians are doing what needs to be done. (If they were, they would never allow unscreened cargo and airmail to travel with passengers.):2cents:

In closing, I’d like to offer one other relevant quote:

There is no fate worse than being continuously under guard, for it means you are always afraid.
Julius Caesar

[IanBorthwick]

I think it is fine we need more of this like home inspections, random ID checks, wire taps, mandatory citizenship classes, turn in your neighbor programs, and etc.

It worked so well in East Germany.

This....

The scans and pat downs and such are all BS. They are not how we stop the terrorists and have never been so. If they want to get something on, all these security measures are the bunk. The locked and bulletproof cockpits, armed persons on board and passengers now free to be John Wayne are how we've been deterring the terrorists.

I for one do not want anyone to frisk me or scan me like I am a criminal, freedom from unlawful search and seizure and all that, or have you all disgustingly forgotten that fact?

Benjamin Franklin - He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.

[12voltman59]

My problem with the pat downs and/or body scanners is like what most of my problems with the whole TSA thing is---I doubt if it really has an effectiveness and feel that WHEN Al Qaeda strikes again in a 9/11 style/scale attack---if it once again involves airliners---it will show that all the stuff like making you take off your shoes, only being allowed to carry three ounce or less bottles of stuff like toothpaste, shampoo will have all been for naught.

I am willing to bet that those instances that caused TSA to institute such restrictions and searches----were the real goal of Al Qaeda. They had no intention of the shoe bomb going off--only the threat they could do that--so that made authorities to put in those restrictions---it is all designed to make air travel stressful and too unpleasant for most people. They basically wanted to muck things up, and they sure have scored big on that one!!

If that is the case---they got me since 9/11---I pretty much decided that I would only fly if there was no other other option but to fly since I just hate all this TSA checkpoint BS.

I don't know what the answer is when it comes to airport security--but I just don't think that the powers that be have any better idea than the rest of us do----and the new pat down/scan stuff---is just more "groping around" by them---trying to find something---ANYTHING---they think is some sort of solution to the problem of acts of terror against our air transport system.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Because its a bloody nuisance and pain in the ass. Last time I flew, in August, I had one scanner-person who was an over zealous pain in the ass! He scanned me all over Twice, wanted me to remove my leg braces, and even made me take my hair down and run my fingers thru it! He was getting a little too friendly, when the supervisior came up. I asked if it had Really been necessary for me to remove my leg braces (Which are a bitch to put back on unless someone does it For you, or you have a flat surface like a desk to stretch the leg out on). He said "Why no. Who made you do that?"
I said "Your Boy here made me remove both of them, take down all this hair too so he could scan it for bombs. And if he touched my boobs One more time, he was going to land over on the luggage ramp"
The guy got his ass chewed right there, and one lady attendant helped re-strap on my leg braces. But it took like half an hour of a delay, and was painful to boot!
So Thats why its such a big deal to some of us. Not all, but some.
Cat

[mikey3000]

Well Cat, you can't blame the system because of one over-zealous idiot. Though the guy you had was definitely an idiot.

[Pasadenacpl2]

Yes. Yes you can blame the system. Because that's not just one over zealous idiot. Or are you not paying attention to the reports that are now flooding in about abuses by TSA workers. Who watches the Watchmen, as it were.

I'm ok with good security. I like to be able to fly in safety. I do not, however, give up my basic freedoms to do so.

Pasa

[Realist]

I know a fellow who lost both legs in Vietnam. He can walk with prosthesis. I haven't talked to him about going through the airport, but wonder if they hassle him? Next time I see him, I'll ask him.

[swmnkdinthervr]

I have an understanding for both sides of this issue, frankly I don't see an easy answer. Before going on to my comments I feel it's important to mention that many of the alleged abuses are being found out to be false including one person that was on TV!!! I would also point out that there were only 700 complaints in over a million travelers!

Possibly our biggest fears about the invasive searches are the exposure to X-rays and invasive physical searches. In most instances a person isn't even subjected to the full body scan, (it's not used in the majority of airports yet and not as the primary method of search in most using it) if while going through the metal detector you trip the alarm you are then directed to the scanner...you then can choose to opt for a physical search instead.

There is little evidence so far that the exposure poses a danger but that is still a worrisome threat, the scanner is viewed by someone of the same sex and they can't see who you are, the physical search is also by someone of the same sex.

Most of us worried about the privacy issue are worried about where this intrusion will end...will they next allow scanners at the entry to department stores, hospitals, sporting and entertainment events?

On the other hand if we do nothing to improve our security it's not a question of if but when the next bomb will find it's way onto a airliner. How many of todays protesters will be screaming then about "how we could have done more" to secure our safety???

I'm of the opinion that if you want to fly, stop your sniveling and choose how you wish to be searched...if not...have a nice drive! It's not a right to ride in an airplane, it's a service that you purchase and like most things if you don't like the service buy elsewhere!

JMHO

[ubersmack]

I fly several times a year to and from the U.S. and I don't mind. Sure, look at my junk if you like. Don't care. Pat me down? Go for it. You just bloody well take your time and do a very thorough job. :bigrin:.

Why all the fuss?

I see your point.

Think the next time I will just enjoy my pat down and wiggle a little during the right times! HAHA! :bigrin:

[mikey3000]

Fucking shocking!!!!!

http://www.detnews.com/article/20101122/METRO/11220409/Houghton-Lake-cancer-survivor-gets-apology-from-TSA-head

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Real, Ki told me his flight the other day that a scanner-lady made him lift his pant leg, and Prove to her that he too wore a prosthesis. She actually tapped his pros. all the way up to the knee to make sure it was there. ;) He said he almost went "Uh oh, now you've done it..you just hit the timer"
But he was afraid there would be a huge melt-down, and he would have never gotten on his flight...lol
These people are ridiculous...
Cat

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Mikey, what about the little boy that they made remove his sweatshirt? I would have had a FIT over that one had I been his parents. He was getting over measles and was scratching, so they made him remove his sweatshirt so they could see that his Mom was telling the truth. Idjets.
Cat

[sammie19]

I have no real objection to the precautions taken at airports for security because the world is a dangerous place and airlines are prime targets.

I have no objection either to being patted down. This has happened to me a number of times. I do have objection to the liberties some security people take with my person when doing so. While queueing to board a flight to Paris the security guy at Glasgow airport patted me down after I was scanned first up and down front and back of my legs, then on the outside of leg and thigh.

On doing inside and outside of my right leg he touched my pubes gently with his pinky, and I thought careful darling. On the left he patted more slowly up outside and inside of leg and thigh and his hand touched more firmly my pubic area and rested there a second longer than it should. I looked down at him and he smiled sweetly, but the smile disappeared when I said in a loud voice "one feel may be an accident, two is a fucking liberty" and I swiped away his hand angrily. There is no doubt in my mind his touching was a deliberate act and I made my opinion known loudly and in no uncertain terms.

I did get an apology from the guy and his supervisor, claiming that it was accidental but I'm sorry it was no accident. I could tell that the other security staff and their supervisor thought I was just being a hysterical paranoid bitch and it took my partner and I several minutes to persuade security staff that we had consumed no alcohol and were not troublemakers or a risk to the flight, for consideration was being given to detaining us and possibly even doing what we felt would be a recriminatory strip search which could well have cost us our flight.

Because we need security does not give security staff the right to take liberties.

[swmnkdinthervr]

Here's another question, hopefully not thread drift!!!

If all these people wishing to protest on turkey day opt for a physical search and slow the process for thousands of other "non-objecting" travelers...some of whom may miss connecting flights because of delays...wouldn't they be interfering with our basic freedom to travel as we choose???

[darkeyes]

Here's another question, hopefully not thread drift!!!

If all these people wishing to protest on turkey day opt for a physical search and slow the process for thousands of other "non-objecting" travelers...some of whom may miss connecting flights because of delays...wouldn't they be interfering with our basic freedom to travel as we choose???

Probably.. but then so is endin up in a fireball or hittin the ground an breakin up inta a mangled travesty a former humanity.. ya pays ya money anya takes ya choice.. am scared stiff a like travellin by air at besta times an airport an airline security gets on me tits.. question is just how much do we need an just how much impinges on our liberties an how many a those liberties r we prepared 2 sacrifice for safety.. an a course.. how much is real an imagined, an how much is really necessary and how much just window dressin 2 keep us scared.. but thats the subject of anotha thread methinks..

[darkeyes]

I have no real objection to the precautions taken at airports for security because the world is a dangerous place and airlines are prime targets.

I have no objection either to being patted down. This has happened to me a number of times. I do have objection to the liberties some security people take with my person when doing so. While queueing to board a flight to Paris the security guy at Glasgow airport patted me down after I was scanned first up and down front and back of my legs, then on the outside of leg and thigh.

On doing inside and outside of my right leg he touched my pubes gently with his pinky, and I thought careful darling. On the left he patted more slowly up outside and inside of leg and thigh and his hand touched more firmly my pubic area and rested there a second longer than it should. I looked down at him and he smiled sweetly, but the smile disappeared when I said in a loud voice "one feel may be an accident, two is a fucking liberty" and I swiped away his hand angrily. There is no doubt in my mind his touching was a deliberate act and I made my opinion known loudly and in no uncertain terms.

I did get an apology from the guy and his supervisor, claiming that it was accidental but I'm sorry it was no accident. I could tell that the other security staff and their supervisor thought I was just being a hysterical paranoid bitch and it took my partner and I several minutes to persuade security staff that we had consumed no alcohol and were not troublemakers or a risk to the flight, for consideration was being given to detaining us and possibly even doing what we felt would be a recriminatory strip search which could well have cost us our flight.

Because we need security does not give security staff the right to take liberties.

Craigie the terrorist an shit stirrer huh Sam.. price ya pay for bein such a yummie lil tart... next time.. dress likeya grannie...;)

[MarieDelta]

Some tips from the NCTE for folks traveling as trans*


TRAVEL TIPSTravelers should keep the following points in mind:

Both travelers and TSA personnel have the right to be
treated with dignity, discretion and respect. If you
encounter any issues, politely ask to speak to a
supervisor immediately. Remain polite. Do not raise
your voice or threaten TSA staff; this only results in
additional delays.
You have the right to opt out of a full-body scan in
favor of a manual patdown. It is your choice.
You have the right to choose whether a pat down is
conducted in the public screening area or in a private
area, and, if in a private area, whether to be
accompanied by a travel companion.
You have the right to have manual search procedures
performed by an officer who is of the same gender as
the gender you are currently presenting yourself
as. This does not depend on the gender listed on your
ID, or on any other factor. If TSA officials are unsure
who should pat you down, ask to speak to a supervisor
and calmly insist on the appropriate officer.
You should not be subjected to additional screening or
inquiry because of any discrepancy between a gender
marker on an ID and your appearance. As long as your
ID has a recognizable picture of you on it, with your
legal name and birth date, it should not cause any
problem.
Foreign objects under clothing such as binding, packing
or prosthetic devices may show up as unknown or
unusual images on a body scan or patdown, which may
lead TSA personnel to do additional screening. This
does not mean that you cannot fly with these items,
only they may lead to further screening. Be prepared to
give a brief description of what they are or check them
in your luggage so that you can minimize scrutiny and
delays.
Items containing liquid, gel or powder substances will
trigger additional security screenings and therefore we
strongly recommend that you pack these items in your
checked luggage or leave them at home.
Wigs or hairpieces may require additional screening if
they are bulky or not form-fitting. If you have gone
through a metal detector or body scanner and TSA
personnel want to do additional screening of a wig or
hairpiece, you may request that a patdown be limited to
your hairpiece or that you be permitted to pat the area
down yourself and have your hands swiped for chemical
residue.
If you are carrying medically prescribed items, such as
syringes for hormone injections or vaginal dilators, it is
very helpful to have proof of the medical necessity of
the item(s). Ask your doctor for a letter stating that he
or she has prescribed the item or keep medical devices
in their pharmacy packaging that includes a prescription
label. Be prepared to briefly explain the purpose of the
item if asked.

Source: http://www.pamshouseblend.com/upload/Autumn/NCTE_WhatTransgenderPeopleNeedToKnowAboutTSAsProce dures.pdf

[man65here]

Have you ever seen a sign that says "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". that is the right of business, if you think the search is wrong, take the bus.

You know before you buy your ticket that you will have to submit to the search, so why whine about it.

:flag4:

[chook]

When its all said and done, all the body searches and pat downs mean Jack Shit because nine times out of ten if some stupid prick wants to blow up a plane the explosives are already on board even before the first passenger boards the fucking thing. Too little too late I say, and thats in my honest and humble opinion. :(


Cheers Chook :bigrin:

[Pasadenacpl2]

Everyone should be checked or go through some sort of scanner.

I went through them long before 9/11 happened and it is just something that's done in airports nowadays.

The guy that is going on and on about how harmful the full body scanners are does not know what he's talking about. You get way more harmful radiation from a Cat Scan, a regular X-ray, and a dental X-Ray. You're exposed to all sorts of radiation daily by going about your life and using electronic devices so there is no way to avoid it. You get lots of free radicals from everyday life.

If you have to wear leg braces do not get angry when you have to take them off or have them searched before going on a plane.

No one is looking at anyone's 'naked' body through a scanner, or intentionally touching anyone's cock, tits, or pussy. If you're too much a prude to accept a basic 'outline' of one's body from a scanner, or a basic frisking then you don't need to be flying at all.

If you do not want to comply with being searched or scanned then don't fly. Would you rather be hassled or have a tragedy happen?



No one? Really? No one is being groped inappropriately? No one is checking out the hot chick as she goes through the scanner? No one?

Somehow, I think your premise is flawed.

Pasa

[chapear]

Its even worse if you're in the military, traveling with government orders, military id, and in uniform going through a commercial airport. they had me get completely out of uniform to my underwear which isn't a problem except the uniforms take a lot of time to put on and take off because of all of the small detail items on them. Then patted down because they said that I am potentially a domestic terrorist. HELLO, I'm wearing the uniform of a US Marine, with an ID card issued by the US government that can get me into any federal government building in Washington DC and orders stating where I'm going and why I'm traveling. Why am I being Harrassed by these "security" workers?

[Pasadenacpl2]

Based on the scanned images I've seen they're not like seeing someone naked or without clothing.

Maybe you should get a job as a TSA person so you can live out your fantasies of groping women and seeing fuzzy images of their bodies through scanners?

How is it you're seeing scanned images? They are, according to TSA, not able to be saved, and not to ever be shown.

Pasa

[Pasadenacpl2]

I do.

Which is why I'm confused as to your statements about no one getting overly frisked or that no one is checking out the images on scanners in a less than professional manner.

If you read the news, you will find story after story of abuses by TSA officials. You will also find that the scanned images which aren't supposed to be able to be saved, have not only been saved, but released to the public.

http://gizmodo.com/5696371/exclusive-tsa-says-body-scanners-saving-images-impossible

Yeah. TSA lied to the public. Now they are backtracking...again. I don't trust the leadership of the TSA. I don't trust them AT ALL.

Pasa

[pabicur27]

The East German border guards at the Berlin Wall were "just doing their job" too.

B. Franklin said it best.

The TSA and airport "security" is nothing more than PR excercise.

For the people that say "quit whining", then provide us with your full name, address, telephone #, social security number, bank accounts, employer name, etc. so that your life can be examined so that "we" know that you are not a terrorist.

[BiBedBud]

Bucolic – You don’t know what you’re talking about.

I never mentioned ‘free radicals’, which is an entirely different thing from mutated DNA (which is what I warned about). If you’re a business traveller (as I am most of the time), and you fly two or four times a week (as I often do), and sometimes have to take connecting flights (meaning perhaps eight different airplanes each week), there is no way it’s safe to get zapped that many times each week, every week, week after week. Anyone who says otherwise has zero credibility, IMO.

This is why I will always opt for a pat-down or even to remove all of my clothes (if that’s what is necessary). I am no prude, and I readily understand the need for security – probably more than you – but I am not willing to trade a potential risk of terrorism for the certain risk of cancer. That makes no sense to me – I don’t care what anyone says – FDA, NIH, Johns Hopkins or Anthony Hopkins – whoever, whatever, it just doesn’t add-up.

FYI: CAT scans are medically necessary, but still *cause* an estimated 29,000 cancers in the United States every year, with the risk for an individual increasing as he or she undergoes more or longer scans (because there’s a cumulative effect). Of these 29,000 CAT-scan induced cancers, roughly half prove to be fatal within five years of diagnosis. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aETXq6qDpjNY

Another remedial science lesson: So-called ‘cosmic rays’ are mostly alpha wave particles; which are less energetic than beta wave particles; which are less energetic than gamma radiation; which is less energetic than X-rays (which is what some – but not all – of these full-body scanners use). So therefore, to compare cancer risks of radiation exposures as if cosmic rays are somehow equivalent to the identical particle dose of X-rays, this is pure BUNK. The fact that this nonsense is coming out of the mouths of government officials is truly disgusting and does not give me any confidence that my safety or security is being taken as seriously as I would like.

It seems to me that these full-body X-ray scanners are more about protecting the backsides of politicians and the profits of the airline industry; than they are about keeping the travelling public safe.

Grope me if you gotta – but don’t ZAP me cause you wanna!

[DuckiesDarling]

I read a story on stuff.co.nz about the images. It appears they were released from a courthouse and further went on to say that the capabilities for saving, transmitting yadda yadda were disabled before any machine was sent to an airport.

I think there are more than a few bugs in the system and it will be years before you don't hear another complaint. Til then how many times will a plane not be hijacked? How many times do we read about the fact they now have this and that that doesn't show up on normal scanners? I don't like any of it but I accept the fact that if I want to fly I need to go through security. Surely there are better ways of handling issues than the way Cat posted they handled her leg braces but these are individual people given power at the security checkpoints. Of course you are gonna get more than a few assholes.

[graniteman1953]

Here's another question, hopefully not thread drift!!!

If all these people wishing to protest on turkey day opt for a physical search and slow the process for thousands of other "non-objecting" travelers...some of whom may miss connecting flights because of delays...wouldn't they be interfering with our basic freedom to travel as we choose???

No. The TSA is interfering with our freedom to travel! Ever hear of the 4th amendment? It invokes our right to freedom from gov't search and seizure without "due cause?"
And BiBedBud is right-on about the effects of low-dose/scatter radiation.

[wondering56231]

I hate that in the years that I have been on this site that this will be my first post, but this issue has struck a nerve with me. Profiling is the only way we are going to get a handle on terrorist. No one has even mention the fact that Muslim's can "opt" out of the scan and the pat down. I am very reluctant to post this just because I don't want to prove how stupid the terrorist really are. If they want to do damage, strike fear in America and kill Americans, It's just a matter of time before they realize that they don't need to blow up a plane. They only need to detonate a bomb in a security check point. What happens then, precheck point checkpoints, strip searches in the parking lots? We can not continue to give up our freedoms. Pretty soon there will be none. In my opinion the terrorist have already won........Just sayin'!

[wondering56231]

I've been frisked and patted down, and even scanned for going to certain events and going to certain places. It's not a big deal.

For those of us who like myself just want to get on our flight and don't care about the pat downs or being scanned , how about everyone that does not want to be frisked or scanned just stops flying or does not take a plane to travel?

Law enforcement keeps DNA and fingerprints of people who are arrested but either never charged or cleared of any wrongdoing. If they're supposed to destroy that data like they are and they usually never do, then did anyone really expect them not to hold onto this too?

Quit being the brats that everyone around the world accuses us of being. Flying isn't a right. It's a convenience you can choose not to utilize. You think these scans are intrusive, try flying out of Israel.

Muslim women can opt out of a scan and for their pat down if they are wearing a burqa they are only examined around their head and necks.

This is not a personal attack on you but I take offense to being called a "Brat". First off, some people are required to fly as part of their job! Not very practical to quit a job because someone doesn't want to be scanned or molested by a TSA agent.

So it's OK for American brats to not be allowed to opt out based religious beliefs? Apparently you didn't see the photos of the nun being accosted by the TSA. What about the 12 YO? The women that has a prosthetic breast due to cancer and chose to NOT be scanned because she didn't want to be exposed to the radiation? I guess Muslim women, who yes by the way have been terrorist, are incapable of hiding a bomb under their breast. "It's not a big deal" I hope that you still feel the same way when we no longer have any personal freedoms left.

[darkeyes]

For those of us who like myself just want to get on our flight and don't care about the pat downs or being scanned , how about everyone that does not want to be frisked or scanned just stops flying or does not take a plane to travel?



Not an easy thing ifya have 2 travel from Texas 2 ya Grannie's funeral in Europe, Africa or wherever.. or ya job necessitates flyin from Houston 2 Africa.. orya kids hav got themselves nicked by the Russian fuzz an needya help.. or mayb ya jus wanna go an c the place ya wer born in wich jus happens 2 b in Africa jus 1ce more foreya die.. jus nip inya car an hav quick drive or catch a train or bus.. no probs..

Thing about personal freedom is that peeps died 2 get us it.. an now yas quite happy 2 give it away.. an 1ce its gone its bloody difficult 2 get back...

[Hephaestion]

I've been frisked and patted down, and even scanned for going to certain events and going to certain places. It's not a big deal.

For those of us who like myself just want to get on our flight and don't care about the pat downs or being scanned , how about everyone that does not want to be frisked or scanned just stops flying or does not take a plane to travel?

Law enforcement keeps DNA and fingerprints of people who are arrested but either never charged or cleared of any wrongdoing. If they're supposed to destroy that data like they are and they usually never do, then did anyone really expect them not to hold onto this too?

Quit being the brats that everyone around the world accuses us of being. Flying isn't a right. It's a convenience you can choose not to utilize. You think these scans are intrusive, try flying out of Israel.

Muslim women can opt out of a scan and for their pat down if they are wearing a burqa they are only examined around their head and necks.


"....Muslim women can opt out of a scan and for their pat down if they are wearing a burqa they are only examined around their head and necks....."

Behold the answer to avoid the kind of checking which seems to cause offence - wear a burqa and claim to be a woman (have a shave that day if appropriate).

However, this is kind of nutty as burqas tend to be worn by muslims and there is a high association of muslims with bomb terrorism currently.

[Mr descreet]

I fly several times a year to and from the U.S. and I don't mind. Sure, look at my junk if you like. Don't care. Pat me down? Go for it. You just bloody well take your time and do a very thorough job. :bigrin:.

Why all the fuss?

well it my stop another gym shoe bomber,and it may stop another underwaer bomber but I don't think it will stop a asshole bomber,and besides I'm fussy who pats me down

[chuck1124]

Interesting reading. Interesting, too, how many of us really don't see the problem. Will it take a airplane disaster to put all this objection to rest? I sure hope not. Of course, bear in mind, this is all come about because the TSA refuses to profile. Blue-haired grandmoms are not the threat, but we have to pat them down anyway, to so we can all not be accused of that dreaded word, "PROFILING". As I've heard and read, the airports in Israel are the safest. What are their procedures?

[BiBedBud]

RECOMMENDED READING:

What Israel can teach us about security
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744426--what-israel-can-teach-us-about-security

Israel’s Airport Security, Object Of Envy, Is Hard To Emulate Here
http://www.forward.com/articles/122781/

How the Israelis do airport security
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-01-11/opinion/yeffet.air.security.israel_1_airport-security-isaac-yeffet-el-al?_s=PM:OPINION

Notice that they don't use whole-body scanners

[jamieknyc]

Probably.. but then so is endin up in a fireball or hittin the ground an breakin up inta a mangled travesty a former humanity.. ya pays ya money anya takes ya choice.. am scared stiff a like travellin by air at besta times an airport an airline security gets on me tits.. question is just how much do we need an just how much impinges on our liberties an how many a those liberties r we prepared 2 sacrifice for safety.. an a course.. how much is real an imagined, an how much is really necessary and how much just window dressin 2 keep us scared.. but thats the subject of anotha thread methinks..

Dunno, Fran...outside the window of my office is a gigantic hole that showed the world that airplane terrorism isn't a made-up threat.

[jamieknyc]

Interesting reading. Interesting, too, how many of us really don't see the problem. Will it take a airplane disaster to put all this objection to rest? I sure hope not. Of course, bear in mind, this is all come about because the TSA refuses to profile. Blue-haired grandmoms are not the threat, but we have to pat them down anyway, to so we can all not be accused of that dreaded word, "PROFILING". As I've heard and read, the airports in Israel are the safest. What are their procedures?

Israeli methods are not realistic. They are monitoring traffic to and from only one airport and are dealing with very clearly defined security needs.

I think I am the only person here with personal experience of Israeli airport security. They have the ability, given the relatively small number of passenegrs and the very specific nature of the security threats, to get the passenger list in advance and come with prepared questions for the passengers. That is not realistic in the US or Europe.

[NotLostJustWandering]

I have an understanding for both sides of this issue, frankly I don't see an easy answer. Before going on to my comments I feel it's important to mention that many of the alleged abuses are being found out to be false including one person that was on TV!!! I would also point out that there were only 700 complaints in over a million travelers!

And besides those 700 complaints, how many more abuses happened without any complaint being filed because passengers realize how useless it is to complain?

I'm quite sure those bastards stole my camera. I called the airline, they did a cursory search and found nothing. Was I supposed to file a complaint? I couldn't PROVE the TSA stole it. Maybe another passenger on the plane managed to get into my carry-on when I wasn't looking. I really really doubt it, but I can't say I am 100% positive.

The paranoia is out of hand. In another incident, my 86-year-old mother, flying alone, had her knitting needles confiscated. WTF?

I don't mind a bit of inconvenience if it's to provide reasonable security. But it seems the jobs always go to idiots, thieves and lechers.