Should it be "The B Word"?

[glantern954]

I have seen some complaints about the article below by bisexuals. What do you think? Is this biphobia or a legitimate gripe by a lesbian author?


Source: The Advocate
Author: Laura Weinstock
Date: April 25, 2006
Title: Lame-duck lesbians

Are lesbians a dying breed? This year on The L Word, there was a
disturbing trend that's emblematic of a much wider problem. Don't
get me wrong—I've been watching The L Word loyally for all three
seasons, and up until recently I've appreciated many things about
the show. Particularly in season 1—the characters were so well
drawn; I cared about them and the story lines. They were funny and
irreverent. Not to mention that I was infinitely grateful such a
program—all about lesbians, made by lesbians, looking at the world
from our perspective—existed at all. And yet right now I'm wondering
(and I know I'm not alone here): What's going on? With few
exceptions—for example, when Rose Troche writes and directs—I turn
off the TV each week, and my partner and I rant and rave in great
distress.

Where have all the lesbians gone? Gone to men now, (almost) every
one. We have Tina, going back to men after eight years with Bette.
We have Alice, sometimes with men, sometimes not. We have Jenny, who
left her abusive fiancé for the very hot Marina (who turned out to
be married to a man!), still unable to say she's a lesbian. And now
to top it off, Jenny is with a woman, Max, who wants to become a man
and who seems to be as abusive as Jenny's ex-fiancé. Continuing with
the trend, Max also sleeps with a man.

I am not, by the way, antibisexual. But when half the characters in
the only lesbian show on television are not lesbians, you've got to
wonder. It is called The L Word, after all.

Lest anyone think I'm being unreasonably critical, why not look at
Queer as Folk for some perspective? For all the controversy QAF
garnered, there are certain things for which the makers of that show
cannot be faulted. Not one of its main gay male characters ever
slept with a woman. The show was about gay men and remained true to
this premise. (The QAF producers could have portrayed bisexual men,
clearly a reality in the gay world. Instead, they chose to use their
limited airtime exclusively for gay story lines.) Nor were any of
the main characters killed off—not by drug overdose, AIDS, or
cancer. On The L Word, by contrast, one of the main characters who
actually was a lesbian—having only lesbian sex, I might add—died of
breast cancer. To be fair, breast cancer is a serious problem
affecting one in nine women, and the show's creators wanted to make
a political impact, which I applaud. The L Word has also been better
in portraying diversity than Queer as Folk ever was. In fact, QAF
was weakest in its treatment of—you guessed it—lesbians, who were
often quite stereotyped (assuming caretaking roles with the men,
interested only in babies). One of the two QAF lesbians also went
back to men for a while.

But that was a show for the boys. Is The L Word for the girls? Or is
it also for the boys—the straight ones? I wouldn't care so much if
there were more in the media for us. Xena's gone, Buffy's gone. And
the Oscars have come and gone too: Three gay movies, no lesbians. Is
it internal chaos that keeps us out of the limelight? Or are
lesbians still not marketable? If the former, let's work out our
issues and fight for visibility. If the latter, ditto!

[Driver 8]

"I'm not antibisexual. I just don't want the little fuckers around!"

I don't watch the show, so it's hard for me to evaluate the writer's specific comments, but it seems to me that she wouldn't be happy with even a single character on "our" show. (And why on earth does she consider the heterosexual Buffy a lesbian resource of some kind?)

A bi activist on a list I read sent the following letter to the Advocate:

The article by Laura Weinstock [Lame-duck Lesbians?, April 25, 2006] complaining that there is too much bisexuality on the L-Word is offensive. I am personally delighted that The L Word is including bisexual characters and that is one of the reasons I am riveted to the show. Bi women have lesbian friends and date lesbians and vice versa. Sexuality is sometimes fluid and doesn't always behave according to identity labels.

Although Ms Weinstock claims "I am not antibisexual" she contradicts that when she holds up Queer as Folk as an example of the right way to run a show because "not one of it's main gay male characters ever slept with a woman" and goes on to say that although "bisexual men [are] clearly a reality in the gay world" QAF producers should be applauded because "they chose to use their limited airtime exclusively for gay story lines." QAF was on five seasons. Clearly, Laura is a girl who doesn't like to share.

Obviously Ms. Weinstock is a throwback to the old "get your own parade, community center, t-shirt, button etc" philosophy that was previously used for excluding bi and transpeople and which caused so much pain in our community. Thankfully, these days most lesbian and gay people lean towards a more unity-focused approach. After all, we're all queer and we're all here.

[her name]

[Mimi]

oh my goodness. okay, let me begin by saying that The L Word is really not a very good show. i used to watch season 1 and 2 when i had access to showtime, but it got really really bad. the acting is so-so, everyone is ultra-femme, and the characters are 2-dimensional, and when there is any depth to them, it's really crazy. like the one character "jenny" who at first was engaged to a man, then cheated on him with "marina" (who could not act to save her life), then "realized" that she's gay, became obsessed with marina, got dumped by her, then started having flashbacks of being traumatized, began stripping, started chanting in strange language, then started self-cutting. another character "tina" was domestic partners with her lover "bette", then bette cheates on tina, tina finds out, they have some disturbing rape-sex scene, they make up, decide to have a baby through artificial insemination, other drama happens, they break up, tina starts dating bette's arch-nemesis "helena", tina has sex with helena in a public pool while she is 8 MONTHS PREGNANT. :confused: that's really stupid writing, if you ask me.

i'm actually really glad to hear that there are more bi characters on the show. after the first 2 seasons, there was only ONE bi character amongst a cast of NINE. this bi character "alice" (who is actually from the murmurs band who is a lesbian in real life) at first dated "a man who identified as a lesbian" (yeah, i tell you, this show is wacko) and then she got into a serious relationship with a WOMAN. so with jenny becoming gay and alice ending up with a woman i was starting to feel that the show was basically leaning towards the "lesbian only" spectrum.

i think this writer is doing the whole "you're not gay enough" rant and feels threatened by anything male. there are so many lesbians like this -- they have gotten so comfortable in their "women only" zone that anything with a penis bothers them. it's downright biphobic to me. the fact that she has the nerve to say it with such righteousness is really maddening.

and i don't know about the Advocate magazine as a whole. i just got a subscription (it was free) and started flipping through the pages of my first issue and noticed an alarming lack of anything bi. everything is "gay" or "lesbian." maybe my first impression is wrong, but perhaps the magazine itself is supporting this kind of bigotry.

mimi :flag1:

[Long Duck Dong]

the only issue i have with it... is its flaming tv for gods sakes

rarely does tv mirror true life.....

the show is called the L word cos it deals with the lives ( damm interesting lifes ) of people that call themselves lesbians. lol....I think laura needs to turn off the tv and walk out and ask herself if the tv is a window into the lesbian world.... or just what gets the ratings for the show

queer nation which is a nz program for gays features gays and lesbians....it focuses on the feminine gays that do art and that is meant to be a representation of the whole gay/ les/ bi / trans spectrum... and I watched it ( on and off ) until the day they featured a bi person that is the *spokeperson for the bi community...lol...( if the bi community of nz is represented by a overly flamboyant, neon clothing dressed, swearing, drinking and smoking unshaven crossdressing drag queen then I'm on the next boat outta nz )

~ and as a parting word..... lesbian, gay, trans, bi are all labels we place on ourselves and is subject to change ~

[Driver 8]

and i don't know about the Advocate magazine as a whole. i just got a subscription (it was free) and started flipping through the pages of my first issue and noticed an alarming lack of anything bi. everything is "gay" or "lesbian." maybe my first impression is wrong, but perhaps the magazine itself is supporting this kind of bigotry.
Your first impression is not wrong. Partly, I think, it's that the Advocate can't be assed to have a style sheet - they don't even seem consistent about whether they say "gay and lesbian" or "gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered," and I've caught them hyphenating "bisexual." They're really sloppy about details.

But ... yeah, they have a history of being careless-to-ignorant about the issue. Check out
complaining that there is too much bisexuality on the L-Word is offensive. I am personally delighted that The L Word is including bisexual characters and that is one of the reasons I am riveted to the show. Bi women have lesbian friends and date lesbians and vice versa. Sexuality is sometimes fluid and doesn't always behave according to identity labels.]this article on trans inclusivity (The article by Laura Weinstock [Lame-duck Lesbians?, April 25, 2006) in the current issue. " Recognizing our common struggle for civil rights—and our common enemies—the gay and lesbian movement started adding the T in the mid 1990s," says the writer. The who movement? Did this woman never once notice that B that comes between the GL and T?

[meteast chick]

I happen to love 'The L Word'. Bar none. I can't say I know a whole lot of lesbians, but the few I do know have in fact started out their sexual experiences with men. At some point, a choice is made. Personally, I see what's inside a person, and if the outside is as beautiful, I'm there.
Like was already said, television does not mirror real life. It's intention is to lure you in, give you something you don't have, maybe something you wished you had or wished you were, then coldcocks those characters to our satisfaction just so we know that they can get knocked down just as easily.
I think Ms. Weinstock is entitled to her opinion, we all are. I don't see anything particularly offensive about what she has written.

Oh BTW, what is 'The L Word'? Lesbian? Lust? Love? I think it can mean many things...

luv and kisses,
xoxoxoxox
meteast

[Mimi]

Your first impression is not wrong. Partly, I think, it's that the Advocate can't be assed to have a style sheet - they don't even seem consistent about whether they say "gay and lesbian" or "gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered," and I've caught them hyphenating "bisexual." They're really sloppy about details.

well that's sad and also frustrating. the Advocate is one of the leading LGBT magazines in the nation, so it is at the forefront of the LGBT culture. something must be done!


Check out
complaining that there is too much bisexuality on the L-Word is offensive. I am personally delighted that The L Word is including bisexual characters and that is one of the reasons I am riveted to the show. Bi women have lesbian friends and date lesbians and vice versa. Sexuality is sometimes fluid and doesn't always behave according to identity labels.]this article on trans inclusivity (The article by Laura Weinstock [Lame-duck Lesbians?, April 25, 2006) in the current issue.

could you be a dear and post that link again? it led me to a blank page.

another point i have about The L Word is that many people have complained about the very glossy super-feminine characters on the show -- i think that's a much more important argument because it is about the stereotype of the "lipstick lesbian." to me the creators of the show are trying to sell out to its male viewers who fantasize that lesbians all have long hair and long nails and wear stiletto high heels together. the most "butch" character on the show is "shane" (who i think is a total cutie), but even she wore make-up. and people have tried to say that "well, it's lesbians in LA" or "it's just a show," but because it is the FIRST show about queer women, i think it should hold some social responsibility to provide a more diverse portrayal. and NO, not all lesbians in LA look like that. :rolleyes:

mimi :flag1:

[Driver 8]

could you be a dear and post that link again? it led me to a blank page.

I could have sworn I looked at the preview before posting that. I must have been hallucinating. Here's the link, correctly formatted. (http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid29673.asp)


another point i have about The L Word is that many people have complained about the very glossy super-feminine characters on the show -- i think that's a much more important argument because it is about the stereotype of the "lipstick lesbian."
I've heard a lot of that as well - in fact, some lesbians have said that the characters are behaving more like gay men than like lesbians.

[WillowTree]

and as a parting word..... lesbian, gay, trans, bi are all labels we place on ourselves and is subject to change

Good point! I'd like to add 'straight' to that category. Previously straight people realize they are gay, lesbian, bi, whatever every day and the gay community doesn't question that half as much as they do a lesbian or gay man realizing they might just be bi instead.j


the most "butch" character on the show is "shane" (who i think is a total cutie)

Me too, actually she is the hottest one IMHO. But, I did want to point out Moriah (sp?) is now there, taking the top position in the 'butch' category. But Shane still holds the title on hotness. :tong:

[Mimi]

Here's the link, correctly formatted. (http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid29673.asp)
i tried the link but it gave me another page. i tried searching for the letter and came across others, but not that one. can you tell me the title of the letter or the exact page it's on?


I've heard a lot of that as well - in fact, some lesbians have said that the characters are behaving more like gay men than like lesbians.
LOL. yes, there have been some scenes where these women did not act like women at all. like when tina found out bette had been cheating on her, bette (the cheater) tried to "make up" by throwing her on the bed and psuedo-raping her. it was such an awkward and bad scene. and a lot of the sex scenes seems to encompass manual sex, which also looks very "hetero" from far away. so if there's a complaint to be made, it's about even the authenticity of the so-called lesbian characters in the show.

i know i sound like i'm dogging the show, but it's one thing to love it because it's a queer women show and another to love it because it's a well-made queer women show. i'm thrilled that there is even a show that focuses on queer women, and i watched the first 2 seasons because i support it, but there are also things that can be improved.

i guess nothing is perfect, but we can keep striving for excellence and fairness. ideally, there would be a whole slew of gay/lesbian/bi shows to choose from on TV. that'll be the day!! :bibounce:

mimi :flag1:

[Nara_lovely]

I'm a writer...and I do watch the L Word. Aussie TV has us in the middle of season 2, so haven't seen the later episodes. Yes the acting is a little flat at times, so too the writing. Sometimes watch a scene unfold and moan "noooo" as the plot takes off in a direction that doesn't fit the characters.
I will admit...the character Jenni is strange! Do wish her Carnival phase of writing would be edited out.

As for L Word...the intro with Love, Lust, Love....I always saw it as a question, not a statement. Women being who they are yet searching too. The dynamics of understanding self, interacting with others and developing within.

It's TV...it's 'entertainment' Bi or Lesbian, too much or too little, women and men....ahhh and the debate rages on!

[Driver 8]

i tried the link but it gave me another page. i tried searching for the letter and came across others, but not that one. can you tell me the title of the letter or the exact page it's on?
The link goes to the article by the transgender activist who's praising "gay and lesbian" (her words) organizations for adding a T to their names. At least, it does for me.

[JohnnyV]

G Lantern,

I don't know very much about this show, but the article itself is offensive regardless. On Sex and the City, Samantha got into a relationship with a woman and that didn't disqualify her from the show's plot.

J

[Mimi]

The link goes to the article by the transgender activist who's praising "gay and lesbian" (her words) organizations for adding a T to their names. At least, it does for me.

oh, i was actually asking about the letter you mentioned in your very first post -- are they the same letter? i'm confused now, but maybe it's because it's late and my brain has given out....

mimi

[Nara_lovely]

Here's a thought...

Maybe everyone is Bi.

It'd cut out a lot of labels...but add a load of justifications!

LOL...just sharing a random thought.

[glantern954]

Look at it this way. How would you feel if a gay person said "What if everyone was really gay?"

Probably not a good idea.

[Nara_lovely]

We are still talking about the show and article, right??

Writers have a annoying tendancy to stretch the boundaries. In any show that reflects a concept beyond the 'acceptable norms' does attract interesting ideas. Now the challenge is directed at the acceptable norms of Lesbians' *shock and horror* Series one had many of the characters a touch critical of 'Alice's bi-ness' and that she should "make up your mind". So why not challenge that concept. (From the original article supplied and the tone...I think it worked).

Is it possible, that they are writing under that premise?

[Driver 8]

Look at it this way. How would you feel if a gay person said "What if everyone was really gay?"
IMO saying "everyone's bi" is a lot like saying "no one's bi" - they depend on defining "bi" so broadly, or so narrowly, that it becomes meaningless.

[JohnnyV]

Look at it this way. How would you feel if a gay person said "What if everyone was really gay?"

Probably not a good idea.

G Lantern,

My reaction would depend on context. If the gay person said that in the context of a conversation about homophobia in the Christian right, I'd applaud him or her. If the gay person said it in the context of a conversation about bisexuality, or me, then I'd be annoyed. Most of the strategy is in the delivery.

J

[WillowTree]

and a lot of the sex scenes seems to encompass manual sex, which also looks very "hetero" from far away.

Yes I've noticed this! I've even gone as far as thinking..."maybe I'm doing it wrong!" LMAO :bigrin: I wonder how many straight or curious people have watched the show wondering to themselves, "i thought lesbians weren't necessarily about the in and out." I agree that the het appearance of the sex is a huge flaw, but Ms. Weinstock didn't seem to take offense at that!