Ethnicity

[Nadir]

The other day, while I looked at another thread I started, I saw a guy commenting on that he had nine ethnicities in his background. To be frank, I always have been amazed with the U.S.A. because of this fact. I am a student of Anthropology and Sociology and this nation has always fascinated me as one where different people come together and different cultures and societies finally mix. I have been wondering several things, and I would like to know what ethnicities lie in your heritage (I know that our dear ol´Cat is of German and Native American descent, a strange mix, I would have never imagined it...), how well are you acquainted with them, if you have a pride for all of them or for some of them more than others, and if you want to leave a link or so with more information about them, I would be grateful.

To leave an example, I dunno if you know that the people from my country (Spain), the Spaniards, are divided into several ethnic sub-groups (Catalan people from Catalonia, Basque people, Asturian people and so on...). My parents belong to two different such ethnicities:

My father is Galician (he hails from Northwest Spain): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_people

And my mother is Canarian (she is from the Canary Islands, although she also has some French blood in her, or thats what she says):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canarian_people

And what about you? What are your ethnic origins?

[DuckiesDarling]

On one side I have Scots/Blackfoot Indian and Irish, on the other side Irish/German and more Scots.

[tenni]

Very interesting Nadir. When I was visiting Spain, I was aware of the regional aspect. My own personal observations about my ethnicity are following.

I am sixth generation Canuck. That is a rarity in my country to have ancestors going back that far in this land. Some go back even further though..hundreds of years further back. That doesn't include First Nations who go back thousands of years. In my generation, I could basically "pass" for the accepted ethnic Canuck (English) of my childhood. In my ancestors' generations, I suspect that there were eras when that was not so. We were isolated and not permitted entry into the "English" mainstream culture. I'm probably genetically Irish somewhere between 80 percent and the other (one grandmother) would not identify her ethnic background but she was of pioneer stock(a name that I've never heard anyone else having). To be that "pure" of an ethnic background seems to be to indicate the "isolation" of mixed breeding that was not permitted in my ancestors time.

As a child, I felt that I had no "ethnic identity" that I really could latch on to. Add to that being of Irish Catholic background who did not go to a Catholic school due to mixed marriage, as it was called in my childhood; added this lack of identifying with a group. All be it "Irish" but you know Protestant and Catholic was considered less violent a mix than if we were "real Irish" in Ireland.

Everyone during my childhood era asked "what are you?" and because my surname is Irish I was given the Irish identity. But was I? No, I was not. I was and am Canadian. Everyone was hyphenated Canuck during that era. So many were either immigrant or first or second generation. I knew that I was not "English" which was the mainstream identity.. not Canuck. Well, the other mainstream identity was French as we are a bilingual country. Those who were First Nation was another identity that I was not. I would take on the Irish identity but knew no one in my family who was actually from Ireland. The fact that everyone "became" Irish during St. Patrick's Day did not help create an ethnic identity. :eek:

When I visited Ireland and went to my oldest ancestorial territory, I could see people that looked like my family members amongst other Irish and yes British people. I say British because some reminded me of neighbours etc. from my childhood. One day I was on a bus travelling from the south to Donegal and as we drove through one city/town I was surprised to find my last name all over the business signs of that town. The main street seemed covered with signs of my surname. It turns out that was the original area of my surname...lol It was an interesting identity journey and sweet but no I'm not ethnically Irish. I am genetically Irish.

Today, Canada has diversified ten fold more with many acknowledged ethnic peoples. Each has been up to very recently encouraged to take pride and acknowledgement of their ethnic background. We, Canucks, have been encouraged to become familiar with other's ethnic /racial background and enjoy our diversity and yet unity as Canucks.

I'm still basically left with little ethnic background to identify with even though I believe that I am mostly genetically Irish. I've been told that I "look Irish". I acknowledge my genetic background rather than my ethnic background. I know that I am not Irish but there were some most unusual "Irish" features of certain peculiar customs that I found others of my background retained. Strange to find out such a funny and "drinking" based custom..lol

[darkeyes]

I have never dug very deeply into my families geneology.. i have never felt the need to.

I do know that my father is Scots which I am myself.. my fathers family as far as we know is Scots down both the maternal and paternal sides... although on his mothers side there is a great deal of the Highland gael and some Hebridean gael which will almost certainly contain some Norse. My surname is that of a border family which probably contains much British celtic blood still, and will almost certainly contain some English in it due to the history of that part of the country, and also some Angle due to the fact that the eastern borders where my family name originates was once a part of the Kingdom of Northumbria, and was ruled over by the Angles. Also French and Flemish could well be in the mix due to Scotland's very close relations with both and the very llarge unflux which occured from about the 12th century on.. My mothers side of the family is a little more complex containing French, Breton, Norse, Danish, and probably Irish and Welsh as the name is an old Lancashire surname originating in the Cheshire area, and my grandmothers maiden name originated in East Anglia... so we can add to that British celtic, Saxon probably Jute, French, Danish and possibly Norse.

Both lines of my family probably contain some latin going back to the time of the Roman occupation 1500 years ago and probably some very weak trace of the original inhabitants of these islands from prior to the celtic invasions of 2000 years ago and God knows what was in the mix from before they arrived in Britain. Certainly african and we all have a little of that..

So whatever we think or know of our ancestry and our ethnicity it is certain to be far more complex than we can ever possibly know...

...and at the same time less complex.. for is it not so that we can all trace our ancestry to a single woman who lived her life many, many thousands of years ago when humanity almost died out??? But really my ethnicity and geneology mean nothing to me.. it's a very vague interest, but I am who I am.. what went before isn't important to me.. it is the person I am that matters not who my antecedents were or are..

In the word's of the old Scottish saying which I have related in these forums a few times in the past.. "We are a' Jock Tamson's bairns!"

[tenni]

Darkeyes
I would not be surprised if you are correct as you suggest that ethnicity may have more significance to those of us in the New World whether it be North or South America. We rarely are able to go back as far as you have been able to do quickly as there was that break and distance severing links beyond a few hundred years with our ethnicity. Toronto is supposedly one of the most multi cultural( ethnic) cities in the world. The diversity and eventual intermarriages may make it as diverse as some US posters have indicated about their ethnic background.

[Realist]

I agree...interesting thread!

On my father's side of the family, I have a record going back to the 1290s. They were English, Scots, and some Irish, too. They migrated to the states in the 1790s.

Those from my mother's side were a little more diversified, but I can only trace them to Scotland in the early 1800s. When they arrived in the states, in the 1840s, one of them married a Choctaw Indian. He was my Great-great-grandfather. As far as I can tell, she was the only non-Caucasian on either side of the family.

I once dated a girl who was Chinese-African-German. She was born in Malta! Damn, she was a beautiful, fantastic, girl!

[darkeyes]

I once dated a girl who was Chinese-African-German. She was born in Malta! Damn, she was a beautiful, fantastic, girl!

I once dated a Scots/Irish/Maori girl born in the same hospital as me 1 day later.. is interesting is it not? Unimportant but fun.. tee hee

[Nadir]

Wow, when I started this thread I didnt think I was going to get so much details :O I am rather (gratefully) surprised. Well, darkeyes, as you have said, ethinicity is a little bit more complex than words. Obviously, ethnic groups are not the same as now as they were two thousand years ago, but it´s good to know that some people keep record of their family roots back to the beginning :)

I should maybe have narrowed the definition of "ethnicity" when I started this thread. The way Realist has described it fits far more for the description I was expecting, but anyway, it was nice to hear a little bit about Scots history and culture :) I visited Scotland once, back in the summer of 2005, with my mother and my sister in tow. We were part of a tour group. Along with us came around three or four people who were Australian of Scottish descent. I remember particularly an old lady who was travelling with her daughter, who wanted to see the home where se had grown up back when she was a little girl. The impression that the Highlands left on me was of a very beautiful and mysterious place... sometimes it looked like those mountains and valleys were going to start talking to me, telling the stories of valiant and brave highlanders...

Anyway, I dont think I have dated anyone as interesting as you have XD One of my high school girlfriends was half-Peruvian,half-Spanish, but thats it... now there is one English girl who lives in my hometown interested in me :P I will have to check her out.

Anyway, I think that, to narrow the concept of "ethnicity", I should ask you to post only what ethnic groups you have certainty to be on your backgrounds (on records, or at least you have enough evidence to point to some groups in particular). There is no need to go that waaaaaaay back to the beginning XD Unless you want to, of course :) I am open to every kind of explanation.

[falcondfw]

I am:
Scot
British
German
French
North Irish
South Irish
Polish
Lithuanian
Dane

So yes, I am really confused. lol.
I am proud of all of my heritage, but the one that calls to me the most is Scot. One day, I will visit the Highlands and see part of where I came from.
I also would like to visit Lithuania. Don't know why, but I would like to.
I have been to England and enjoyed myself.

Most of my travels currently, though, take me the opposite way from Scotland, in Asia.

[darkeyes]

...it was nice to hear a little bit about Scots history and culture :) I visited Scotland once, back in the summer of 2005, with my mother and my sister in tow. We were part of a tour group. Along with us came around three or four people who were Australian of Scottish descent. I remember particularly an old lady who was travelling with her daughter, who wanted to see the home where se had grown up back when she was a little girl. The impression that the Highlands left on me was of a very beautiful and mysterious place... sometimes it looked like those mountains and valleys were going to start talking to me, telling the stories of valiant and brave highlanders...



I dont have the romantic view of my country's history, Nadir.. it was often brutal and always extremely violent.. the people were poor downtrodden and victimised.. my country was not a happy land from its inception in the 9th century (and even before) right up until arguably the second half of the last century. It was a land where internicine warfare was rife, where families raped, slaughtered and pillaged in both north and south, was nation of vendetta and blackmail (a scottish word btw).. of appalling poverty and deprivation, of feudal and class oppression, of religious strife and intolerance, and a 300 year old struggle to survive against a much richer, more powerful, populous and avaricous southern neighbour, and an almost equally long struggle to remain independent of France, a predatory, arrogant and abusive ally with whom at one time, my Scottish ancestors shared common citizenship.

It is a very beautiful country Nadir, yet retains many residual problems from those days of centuries ago. It still has much sadness, great deprivation, religious intolerance and ethnic and class division... and these beautiful mountains of which you wax so lyrically? Once like the rest of Britain they were covered by dense forest.. once they were almost as populous as the South of Scotland.. the forests were felled for farming and living space for centuries, and finished off either to build ships after the Union of Scotland and England of 1707 to form Great Britain or to graze sheep, a tragedy which still haunts my country even now, as the Highlands and Islands were depopulated by sometimes greedy landowners, and sometimes well meaning landowners because it was more profitable to graze sheep than provide a living for people. Of that great forest, the Caledonian Forest, unique on our planet, but a few square miles survive..

So I understand that little old lady's romantic vision of my country (a vision invented single handedly by Sir Walter Scott).. the reality is so much different.. as a people we are only in the early stages of trying to throw off that vision and the myths Scott perpetuated, and by being more self aware of our tragic and very unromatic history, we are beginning as a people to gain more self belief in ourselves and in our true place in the modern world.

[Nadir]

Hummm... you certainly have left me speechless, darkeyes.
Allright, I agree that sometimes the image that we have of a country or a place where we have never been (or have gone just for the first time) is very different from what we expected or imagined. As you say, I had the "romantic" Scottish image on my mind handed by me by Sir Walter Scott. I must admit that I have read very few things about the history of Scotland (and most are related to the period of the Jacobite uprising, the Battle of Culloden Moor, Charles II "the Bonnie Prince", and so on...), but from what I have read, it is mostly a country that has had a hard history... but thats no reason to not to enjoy the views of the countryside, even if there are no trees left; or its food (I have to say I am in love with haggis, even if its an stereotype... I hope I can eat one of them when I go back to the UK).

My community (the Canary Islands), have not fared better than Scotland when it comes to strife and war... I dunno if you have heard about the "Guanches" Berbers (the original inhabitants or the Islands).They had their own laws, rulers and way of life (even if by today standars it would look somewhat brutal) They were a people who were masaccred and enslaved by the Spanish conquistators back in the 15th Century. Some of them were killed in battle against them or died due to the diseases or famine the Spaniards brought with them. Many of them were sold as slaves, most were forced to convert to Christianity from their native, polytheistic religion. For the next years they were looked down by the Spanish settlers as less worthy or primitives, and we have always had the ongoing threat of Moroccans having their eyes on us as an strategic point. Nowadays, however, I am glad to say things are very different that they were five hundreds years ago. And I can say how grateful I am for that.

But what I wanted to say with this, is that I can say that no matter how bad things were back on the day, how bad life treated my country or my people, what I can say for sure is that History has good parts and not so good parts. People did what they had to do because they needed to survive, or because they were greedy, or stupid, or thought that they were untouchable or had a divine right... but that doesnt mean the History needs to be forgotten, or that you cannot look past the "seedy" parts of History and see the bright side of it, the romantic part... because if we dont, then I dont think the study of the past is worth doing.

[darkeyes]

I know something of Spanish history Nadir, other than what we were taught at school about the the discovery of the Americas, the Conquistadores and the long conflict between Elizabeth and Phillip II and the Armada. I know something about Andalusia and Moorish Islamic Spain, and the wars which eventually crushed Islamic Spain, the forced conversions and ultimately the expulsion of all Moslems from the country, that Spain has not yet fully come to terms with that part of its past, the Inquisition, and of course Franco the civil war, what led to it and its aftermath.

History of every land is a history until relatively recently a history of complex feuds and oppressions, political intrigue and rivalry, of poverty, and of religious divide. My country is not unique in that and yours certainly cannot be spared the sadness of its history. But you are right.. no nation's history is a history of unremitting gloom and despondency.. human beings have a huge capacity not simply to make the best of their lot, but to make merry very often and find great enjoyment from their lives.. and to strive to improve it. There have always been better times than others and no doubt there always shall be. Our countries histories, no matter which country we talk about will always be a mixture of tragedy and ecstacy. They will be at once places of inspiring acts of love and compassion and also of great brutality.. there will be times of prosperity and others of immense impoverishment.. tolerance of religion, race and ideology will be and will wane and once again be.

I suppose this is off topic but not really in a sense.. for what the history of nations proves is that we are one and the same species.. no matter our colour, or language or culture.. we are the same.. we may think differently about many things, but whatever our ethnic history, no matter how barbarous we can be to each other, we retain an amazing capacity to astound ourselves by acts of love and compassion, kindness and understanding which shows that for all those many diifferences, and be appalled at our brutalities, we have far more in common than divides us.. some day our kind will make peace with itself..

I am an eternal optimist, Nadir, and it is the history of my country and my people, of other nations and their peoples, such as your own, and of humanity as a species which makes me so and live and work to that end.. it has not made me despondent in any way, but it is the progress we have made throughout our combined histories which gives me great hope for our world..

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

heritage (I know that our dear ol´Cat is of German and Native American descent, a strange mix, I would have never imagined it...),

How is it stange, Dearheart? Two people met, fell in love, married and produced two off spring. We are all human, at least some of us, and so a persons' ethnic background shouldn't have a bearing on who, or what they are. People are people Sweetie, regardless of what their root system is. :}
Hugs
Yer Cat

[jamieknyc]

Myself, I am a true son of the Chosen People....:)

[darkeyes]

Myself, I am a true son of the Chosen People....:)

Your Scottish then? With a name like Jamie what else could you be?:bigrin:

There is in fact an ancient legend that the Scots are the lost tribe of Israel.. The Stone of Destiny is supposed to be the stione upon which Jacob rested his weary head when he had some dream or other.. so maybe you are jamie.. tee hee:tong:

[jamieknyc]

With all of the peoples around the world claiming to be lost tribes, our ancestors must have done nothing else except impregnate foreign women all day and all night.

[Nadir]

With all of the peoples around the world claiming to be lost tribes, our ancestors must have done nothing else except impregnate foreign women all day and all night.

Ah... those were the days, my friend. Those were the days. They had a lot of fun :)

[Hephaestion]

Has anyone indulged themselves a DNA profiling which reveals what their genetic make up is and thus their geographic / racial origins. Ethnicity would appear to suggest a cultural emphasis

race n. 1 each of the major divisions of humankind, each having distinct physical characteristics. ........ 4 group of persons, animals, or plants connected by common descent. ....... [e.g. Italian razza; Greek ratsa (anglicized)]

ethnicity adj. 1 (of a social group) having a common national or cultural tradition. ......... 2 denoting origin by birth or descent rather than nationality ........ [Greek ethnos nation]

[Nadir]

Has anyone indulged themselves a DNA profiling which reveals what their genetic make up is and thus their geographic / racial origins. Ethnicity would appear to suggest a cultural emphasis

race n. 1 each of the major divisions of humankind, each having distinct physical characteristics. ........ 4 group of persons, animals, or plants connected by common descent. ....... [e.g. Italian razza; Greek ratsa (anglicized)]

ethnicity adj. 1 (of a social group) having a common national or cultural tradition. ......... 2 denoting origin by birth or descent rather than nationality ........ [Greek ethnos nation]

I feel the need to clarify, I am not talking about "race" here. For me, as a student of Sociology, race does not exist, at least, not how the American Anthropology portrays it. It is a concept invented by scientist centuries ago when they needed to clarify who they thought was superior to others. A concept that has now been determined unvalid, because genetic studies have shown that there are virtually now differences between the so-called "races" (and, if there are, then they are so irrelevant to even be considered) What does exist and has ever existed, however, are "ethnic groups". This groups are considered of people with a common history, a shared past, common traditions, and a sense of belonging between their members. Every group exists at a determinate point in time and space (those who existed 2000 years ago are not the same as now).

[Hephaestion]

I feel the need to clarify, I am not talking about "race" here. For me, as a student of Sociology, race does not exist, at least, not how the American Anthropology portrays it. It is a concept invented by scientist centuries ago when they needed to clarify who they thought was superior to others. A concept that has now been determined unvalid, because genetic studies have shown that there are virtually now differences between the so-called "races" (and, if there are, then they are so irrelevant to even be considered) What does exist and has ever existed, however, are "ethnic groups". This groups are considered of people with a common history, a shared past, common traditions, and a sense of belonging between their members. Every group exists at a determinate point in time and space (those who existed 2000 years ago are not the same as now).


Race ".....It is a concept invented by scientist centuries ago when they needed to clarify who they thought was superior to others.... "

That may have been the shameful truth of SOME scientists in the past but certainly not the vast majority of the present day. Race is a valid subdivision in scientific terms even though the genetic composition may not be very different in terms of proportion. One should recognise that classifyng a continuum has its difficulties.

Difference and superiority are not obligatory partners. Superiority is ephemeral and contextual and so tends to be highly subjective. It is partly objective when there is a survival component associated. We in the higher latitudes consider sickle cell anaemia or thalassemia to be burdens. However, these traits confer resistance to fatal disease carrying biting insects and so a concept of a superior genetic composition may be considered in the context of particular southern latitudes. Another group of interst would be the HIV immune / resistant prostitutes in eastern Africa.

If the emphasis is on ethnic meaning cultural groups then most here seem to have misunderstood. Your question is certainly disadvanged by the highly mobile nature of populations and the cultural pollution that takes place regardless, this through the communications and entertainment media.

Back to racial characteristics the F1 hybrids with their vigour are already in place. It will be interesting to see how many recessive traits appear as these then may choose to breed amongst their recognisable selves.

The tendency of muslim groups to approve of 1st cousin marriages is already showing through in Uk society where recessive and disadvantageous traits are showing through. A similar problem was identified in the jewish communities in NY USA and so predicting blood tests have gained necessity.

DNA composiiton is certainly a topic of focus in medical circles as the enterprise on individual specific, targetted cancer treatments takes off. Racial pre-disposition / vulnerability is part of this.

Good luck in whatever it is that you are trying to gleen.

[rascal48]

half irish/half english, maybe thats what makes the war inside....lol, who knows!!!

[mikey3000]

I am Canadian but my bloodline is 100% Ukrainian, my wife's too. Our families go back many centuries to the same region in the Carpathian mountains of Ukraine. We are most likely VERY distant cousins. LOL!!!

My Mother's family accepted an invitation of free land from the Canadian government to immigrate here and help open up the west, thus they were settrers of the Canadian Praries. They still farm that land today.

My father's family were of aristicratic liniage and thus targets of the Bolshivik Revolution. They were given 30 minutes notice to clear out or be executed (like his brother and his family were). By the time they made it to Canada, they lost eight of their thirteen kids. My grand parents ended up washing dishes in the local hospital until their retirement, yet not a whine or complaint out of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine

[12voltman59]

I am primarily of Irish origin---included in that background--my Irish relatives know that we had some strains that came from the "Moors" in the time they ruled parts of the British Isles.

I also have some German on various sides, with a bit of French thrown in to boot.

I have some English and Scottish--and most interestingly--- I found out not all that long ago---that I have a small strain of Eastern European Jewish ancestry that comes down a line that comes from my mother's mother.

Here in America my family lines came to include someone "native" to this country----I have one very small strain of native American background thrown in too---I forget the tribe--one of the ones found in Oklahoma or what was at the time---the Oklahoma territory--that came from the marriage of a white ancestor, one of my mother's father's grandfathers to an "Indian" woman. That marriage took place in the days of the great migration to the American west in the years following the Civil War.

It seems that most Americans are a bunch of "mutts" in this way.

[Realist]

Volty, you might find this interesting:

http://www.500nations.com/Oklahoma_Tribes.asp

[Gay2Bi]

Has anyone indulged themselves a DNA profiling which reveals what their genetic make up is and thus their geographic / racial origins. Ethnicity would appear to suggest a cultural emphasisNot yet; can't afford it! It's something that I'm interested in, though, just to untangle the twisted thicket that is my ancestors' history. ;)


ethnicity adj. 1 (of a social group) having a common national or cultural tradition. ......... 2 denoting origin by birth or descent rather than nationality ........ [Greek ethnos nation] I always specify that I am an American (by birth and culturally) who is of a certain descent, rather than worrying about race or ethnicity. When you get down to it, genetics tells us that we are all descended (matrilinearly) from one woman who lived about 100 - 150,000 years ago, and that all men can trace their Y-chromosomes back to a man who lived about 70,000 years ago. So for me, it's not so much about genetic origins - we're all the same - but where my ancestors have been most recently because that determines the unique traits they picked up along the way.

With that said, I'm of the following descents (in approximate descending order, appropriately enough): Irish, Italian, English, French, German, Cherokee.

[Mullato_honey]

I think I'm as "Exotic" as they come:) 1 Sicilian/Egyptian MOTHER+ 1 black FATHER= ME:)

[TaylorMade]

At first glance, black...

But. . at closer glance a gentle mix of Irish, Welsh, Scot, English, and Carribean Indian.

Though I think my genes would betray markers from Asia, the Arab world and South America.

*Taylor*

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Here in America my family lines came to include someone "native" to this country----I have one very small strain of native American background thrown in too---I forget the tribe--one of the ones found in Oklahoma or what was at the time---the Oklahoma territory--that came from the marriage of a white ancestor, one of my mother's father's grandfathers to an "Indian" woman. That marriage took place in the days of the great migration to the American west in the years following the Civil War.

Hey Volty! You may be a Home Boy and not even realize it. Hiya Cuz! lol
Picking on you, Cat :tongue::tong:

[Hephaestion]

I think I'm as "Exotic" as they come:) 1 Sicilian/Egyptian MOTHER+ 1 black FATHER= ME:)

Are those pictures of you in your profile? After looking at those I am off to have a cold shower regardless (I could just stand in the rain today as it would be more copious).