On The Fence

[xtopherix]

Some of you may remember me from a while back. I've been fairly busy lately, so I haven't posted much, but recently I've been doing a lot of human rights work in light of the recent situations with teen suicide and hate crimes which has gotten me thinking about some of the obstacles that we bisexuals face. I thought I'd share some of what I've been experiencing with you good people.

The one wall that I keep running into is that bisexuals don't to get the same consideration that other orientations do. For some reason, I keep hearing bisexuality only mentioned as an afterthought when discussing human rights, as if bisexuality is just a term that has to be addressed to maintain political correctness.

Why do people seem to think that just because I'm bisexual I'm on the fence between homosexuality and heterosexuality? I'm frequently seeing bisexuality portrayed as a "blend" of gay and straight, which is a view point that I don't agree with. I think that bisexuality means attraction based on individual personality rather than gender.

Unfortunately, in human rights arguments, I come up against resistance from both sides of the argument. Just the other day, I was able to attend a lecture at my college by a man who was talking about accepting diversity and supporting LGBT youth. It was a nice lecture, but what bothered me was that the only time he mentioned bisexuality was in an anecdote where he was describing seeing a group of people where some where gay, some were lesbian, and some where, in his words, "questioning or undecided; bisexual I guess" MOST of us who have some to terms with our orientation are not undecided! I know I'm not. I see straight people who are adamant that bisexuals are just gays and lesbians that haven't acknowledged their "latent homosexuality" and I see people from the homosexual community condemn us for not having the courage to go "all the way" and instead capitalizing on the "heterosexual privilege."

I'm tired of hearing about this so-called heterosexual privilege! Yeah, if we happen to be dating someone of the opposite sex, we can go for a while without our orientation being noticed, but in my experience it's hard to hide who you really are, no matter how you identify yourself. Anyone who has had to "pretend" that they're straight, or keep your mouth shut when you hear homophobic comments knows that it hurts to be untrue to yourself. Part of my job is being in a position of councilor-ship and I hate seeing so many youth who tear themselves apart struggling to come to terms with an orientation they know nothing about. I know. I was there. I remember agonizing over the question of "why do I love girls but still find myself attracted to guys? I know I'm not gay." It took me a long time to realize that bisexuality was a serious possibility. I blame the lack of respect and consideration given to our orientation. There is no education taking place.

There aren't enough bisexual role models. We hear all about the problems that gay men and lesbian women face, but lately if I hear about bisexuality in the media it's only in the form of a female character who is "experimenting" with another female, much to the excitement the straight males looking on. What kind of message does that send to young people? It needs to be about more than just sex. We're not inherently promiscuous. We're not undecided. We're NOT cowards.

Thanks for anybody who took the time to read this. Whether you agree or disagree, I'd like to hear your comments on the matter.

[Long Duck Dong]

when I was doing counselling and therapy, bisexuality was often refered to as the part time sexuality......and a lot of that stemmed from the studies that showed that while other sexualities were stable.... bisexuals would often stay with a partner of the opposite sex and have casual encounters with the same sex..... so it became known as the part time sexuality......

another way of viewing it is as the side to side movement, a bit like the up and down movement of the human mental stability range.....
you can slide up and down the range from elated to depressed...... but remain constant in your sexuality..... but bisexuality is viewed as the side to side swing... or the hetero to gay / les and back movement

call it manic sexuality disorder lol.... a type of sexual kind of manic depression, if you wanna.......

but in human rights aspects..... bisexuals are or are not discriminated against more, depending on their point in their sexuality.....
a predominately gay bi person is more likely to have a same sex partner and lose the right to marry them, and struggle for rights

a predominately hetero bi person is more likely to have a opposite sex partner and have the right to marry them and have better access to rights

so it comes under gay / hetero rights, more than bisexual rights...... and that is part of why bisexuals are seen as being on the fence... we can go both ways where as less fuild sexualities are constant

as for role models there is 1000's.... cos the role models are us.... the LGBT community.... not tv or movies, but us.... the bisexuals.... yet we deny our own value as role models.....

its a bi like the bi sexual psa visibility thread tenni started, looking for positive role models...... well fuck me.... how many bisexuals are in this forum.... a few 1000??? .... and we are all role models..... ahhh.... maybe not all * positive * but we are more visible to the people around us, than some movie star....and we have the greatest impact of peoples ideas about bisexuality... its also the reason why people have the opinions about bisexuals that they do........

decrying the way society is not accepting of us, is gonna be a on going issue..... but I then to think of it this way..... I do not care who the neighbour is fucking..... does he really need to know who I am fucking......

the issue is the bisexual community want to be * in peoples faces * with our actions, thoughts and words..... but ignoring the fact that they do not care about what we are doing and saying and thinking......

about 90% of LGBT phobia is not cos of who we are sleeping with... its cos of who we are...... 70% of lgbt phobia is cos of WHAT we are.....
and to put that in simple terms..... we do not hate people cos of their sexuality, we hate them cos of their mouths, then we look at the sexuality

perez hilton for example..... he provokes people with his mouth,....and people judge him on that.... then make statements like he is a attention seeking fag and other words......

so its that that we can use to make a difference..... but its a lil hard to make a difference in societies eyes, when we are doing what they are saying..... and a example is * bisexuals can not commit to a relationship or marriage, they wanna fuck anything that moves *...... and we immediately argue that its not correct, we can commit.... but we want open relationships and marriages so we can be sexually active with other people .....

a good bit of advice I once heard from a older gay man, when I was watching a gay pride parade and there was a group of anti gay protestors mouthing off.... he just smiled at the protestors and waved and smiled as if he didn't hear a thing....... and later on, I asked him how he was able to do that....... he just pointed to his ears and laughed.... " hearing aids have off switches ".....

if we stop listening to our critics, we will stop being affected by their negative attitudes and maybe we will stop being so negative too :tong::tong::tong:

[foreverbi]

I have a problem. When I have the chance to be with a man & suck his cock something always makes me think of of my wife & her feelings. Although I told her of my Bi experiences before we were married I am sure she thought it was just a (phase) & I got over it. (Aint gonna happen). Is it normal to start thinking about the people that can be hurt if I do carry out with my (date)? I do not intend to be a tease, but I feel that is the way I coming off. If any other guys have these feelings please tell me how you handle it.:male::confused:

[Realist]

I don't have a problem with what anyone thinks about me, as long as they don't touch me, or my loved ones.

I know who and what I am and I don't need anyone to define me to me. It took me a long time to get where I am today and I'm through worrying about what others think.

I pay my bills, try to obey the law, and help anyone I can. I am also responsible for my own actions. I'm doing my part, as I see fit, and no one is going to think, or act for me, except me.

I'm OK with that and everyone else can do their own thing, too.

[slipnslide]

I have a problem. When I have the chance to be with a man & suck his cock something always makes me think of of my wife & her feelings. Although I told her of my Bi experiences before we were married I am sure she thought it was just a (phase) & I got over it. (Aint gonna happen). Is it normal to start thinking about the people that can be hurt if I do carry out with my (date)? I do not intend to be a tease, but I feel that is the way I coming off. If any other guys have these feelings please tell me how you handle it.:male::confused:

Doesn't matter if you're bi or not. A married man who meets another women he wants to have sex with doesn't because he's married (or shouldn't). You're married, you made a commitment, live up to it. The End.

[tenni]

xtopherix

Thanks for some interesting thoughts. I'd like to add a few comments to what you have posted.

As a bisexual man, I'm rather publicly discreet but as a human I will speak out about human rights issues. I can take either a more proactive position or be seen as conservative depending upon the pond that I'm swimming in. It is always easier for me to speak via my art, pen or mouth to express my thoughts on human rights that I am not personally impacted by. Recently, I found some of my thoughts challenging a rather leftist organization on some human rights sexual issues. I based my position from some thoughts that were discussed on this site. (I know surprise to me too)

However, as far as bisexuals being an after thought or in between, I am growing increasingly saddened or disgusted with some views that are posted on this bisexual website when it comes to bisexuals and bisexual values. When I asked what posters thought were bisexual values, a larger response was negative or I don't have bisexual values by some. Those voices seem to have drown out voices that wanted to develop or saw some values that they saw applying to bisexuals. Sad isn't it? What are blsexual beliefs or values? We don't seem to be able to articulate them. How can there be education about bisexuality when bisexuals are not able to articulate points about bisexuality and any possible value and belief system? I don't know what came first in the gay movement....articulating values that differed from the mainstream values about sexuality or educating people about homosexuality.

xtopherix
You mention role models and I suppose that is important to youth but I'm not sure that it impacts me as a mature man. The question for me is what would make one bisexual a role model? For me, it would be in part their success in life and not proclaiming them a role model based upon how many people that they had sex with or what gender. It may be their role in promoting acceptance of bisexuality regardless of how well they adhere to mainstream sexual values. We've tried to have this discussion recently already on this site though. I agree with you that bisexual seems to be applied more recently in the media to females for some unknown reason. Is it the patriarchal heterosexual male perception to reject male bisexuality as being not possible? Dunno. We may need bisexual role models to challenge those who only refer to bisexuality and applying it to females only. We may need a Nelson Mandella, a Bishop Tutu, Mahatma Ghandi to promote human rights for bisexuals and see them standing up to correct such misrepresentations.

You also mention that bisexuals are not promiscuous as is thought by some. What value are you using to determine that? ...a heterosexual or gay or unknown bisexual value? Many here have argued from what I perceive is a heterosexual value about monogomous as being the value criteria to determine a bisexual promisous behaviour. Several will argue that there is not such thing as a bisexual value to determine promiscuous or monogomous. They are using a hetersoexual mainstream language tool found in any dictionary. Why have bisexuals not created their own words to articulate a bisexual language about relationships? Gays have created their own value system that counters mainstream heterosexual mainstream value system. Are too many bisexuals living the vida hetero to care about creating our own value and belief system?

[NotLostJustWandering]

Those of us reporting biphobia -- I call it rampant biphobia -- amongst gays and lesbians are speaking from our personal experiences. Your historical accounts sound respectable enough but ultimately mean nothing as rebuttals of what personal experience has taught us.

My own experience has led me to call playing with gay men "sleeping with the enemy." Not that I don't have gay men among my dearest friends, but I have found that getting intimate with them usually comes to a point where my sexuality enrages them and they make their nonacceptance known in terms that are uncomprehending at best and often downright cruel. Not that you need to get any closer with a homosexual man than 2 minutes' conversation before he shares his ignorant views of bisexuality with you. Yes, I have encountered biphobia amongst straights and lesbians, but FAR FAR less. And while my sexuality has been a deal-killer for some straight women who otherwise might have been lovers, they never made their non-acceptance into a personal attack or across-the-board attack on bisexuals in general.

Of course there is no debating differences in personal experience, only listening and comparing. We all live in different realities, and unconsciously attract to ourselves the people and circumstances that provide the stage for our dramas and comedies. From my perspective, anyone denying biphobia amongst the queer community or simplistically calling homosexuals our allies has heavily rose-tinted glasses. But from someone else's perspective, it may look like that there's something about me that attracts -- or attracts me to -- the gay people most likely to attack me.

[tenni]

SGS
Some of what you write is true about myself. I do not identify with the word "queer" and anyone that uses that word as a self identifying marker, I tend to shy away from. I have gay friends. They are not part of this political gay movement though. One was in the past but has put that aside.

I do see your thoughts/words as more gay than my own. Perhaps since bisexuality is a wide range attitudes vary too widely for us to identify our values. Perhaps you can help me understand what are "gay values" and beliefs? (one or two..no I'm not going to read a book about it) I have some vague idea about gay political beliefs but since I tend to be rather semantical in developing a comprehension of ideas, you may help me with what are gay values? Then I may examine them to see if I am comfortable or identify with those values? I don't seem to be though. Perhaps try to grasp bi values that several on this site say do not exist. Maybe they do not. I grow ever so disappointed with this site though. There is nothing here for me I think anymore. If I have to accept a heterosexual woman being vindictive towards a bisexual man and it is accepted by people on this site as not bi bashing.

I agree with Not. I have experienced bi phobia amongst some gay men on a gay website. Fortunately, not all gays and I am going to estimate fewer and fewer gays act in a biphobic manner.

As far as the patriarchy is concerned, if you do not believe that it is strong and present in mainstream society...well ok. I can not explain why a woman psychologist on TV would refer to only women as discoverying their bisexuality and omitting men in the statement. It was just strange when I have met many many men who have discovered their bisexuality past 40.

[bisexual Bill]

As someone who was also there and out as bi in the late 70s and early 80s, I didn't notice biphobia or bisexual erasure during the 80s. I did not see it in the 90s or first part of the 00s either besides the bullshit study in 05 that got Dr. Bailey blacklisted and kicked out of his department chair at Northwestern.

A friend of mine who is a research scientist that happens to be a gay man said the people who ran that study did not know what they were doing.

All through the 80s and 90s I read books about bisexuality. They were published by a GLBT press but I had no shame in buying them, reading them, or having them out in my house for people to see.

I also read mainstream pop literature books in the 80s and 90s that had
openly bisexual characters. The Color Purple, The Vampire Lestat, and Bret Easton Ellis' books.

The best eras for bisexual porn were in the late 70s and in the 80s. I don't find Jeff Stryker to be hot but I do remember seeing him in a hot bisexual porn where people were having sex in a supermarket and then later in a sex club. You don't see bisexual porn like that today.

It was scary with the start of HIV/AIDS but I'd known about the virus in the early 80s when they thought it was a "gay cancer" and gay men were getting sick and they thought it was from poppers. Gay male newspapers were the first to write about it before the homophobic mainstream press ever did.

I now know that the main reason I never became poz was because I never bottomed for anal sex and got cum in my ass, and I found swallowing cum to be gross so I never did that. I was also picky about who I had sex with. On the rare times I did give or top for anal sex I used condoms since I had been using them with women to prevent pregnancy and they do make anal sex
a lot cleaner if the bottom isn't fully voided. I also was not into having sex with whatever man or woman who I thought looked hot that wanted me. I was only into having sex while in a monogamous relationship.

When mostly all of my gay male friends were coming down with HIV and dying of AIDS I was there for them as a friend and ally. None of the gay men I was with cared that I am bisexual.

Bisexual men were coming down with the plague and dying of AIDS too. Everyone was too busy helping other people to tell bisexuals that they didn't exist or were not queer allies to gay men and lesbians.

Bisexual men and gay men had solidarity, comfort, and friendship during the 80s, 90s, and even up to and including today we still do.

It's not rose tinted glasses or nostalgia as the 80s with Reagan were horrible.

If you were not around and out during the 70s or 80s you don't know what you're talking about. You were not there or active in politics and other things that united gay men and bisexual men.

Don't let people like Ian or others who have been bullied into silence by their own fears or homophobia tell you otherwise.

Gay men and bisexual men are very connected and always will be even more now because of GLBT and queer community politics.

The Obama administration is working against GLBT equality.

Obama claims to support equality but not same-sex marriage. How difficult is it for you to see the bigotry in that?

Obama promised to eliminate DADT sometime this year. And yet he didn't do anything to lobby the Senate when up for a vote and then when the courts handed him an opportunity allow DADT to die, his administration appeals the decision.

Obama says that he is against DOMA and yet his administration continues to appeal favorable court rulings.

Obama deemed same sex relationships inferior to straight ones because "God is in the mix".

As Obama put it in an August 2008 presidential candidates' forum, "I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian ... it is also a sacred union. God's in the mix."

Obama has lied and snubbed the GLBT community and taken away rights from GLBT people. He's not getting our votes again.