DeMint wants to extend Don't Ask Don't Tell to the classroom!

[danreidbarmi]

South Carolina Senator Jim DeMint believes that openly gay teachers and unmarried female teachers who engage in pre-marital sex should be removed from the classroom.

In an interview, Jimmy LaSalvia of the gay Republican group GOProud said, "I don't know anybody in 2010 who thinks that."

Yet, DeMint is the guy who is funding a number of Tea Party candidates, including Rand Paul in Kentucky, Joe Miller in Alaska, and Christine O'Donnell in Delaware.

"Jim DeMint's comments can only be described as outrageous and bizarre," GOProud's Christopher R. Barron added in a statement. "The idea that someone who says they believe in limited government would support the government weeding out gay teachers and unmarried sexually active female teachers simply defies logic."

The Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights group, said in response to the comments that "What matters in the workplace is your ability to do your job, yet you can be fired for your sexual orientation in 29 states and for your gender identity in 38. I can't imagine what people think is 'moral' about job discrimination."

The National Organization for Women, meanwhile, hammered DeMint for the comments. "Sexist bigots like Sen. Jim DeMint don't belong in the United States Congress," said NOW President Terry O'Neill. "He thinks gay women and men and sexually active single women should be banned from teaching, but he said nothing about sexually active, single straight men."

In a time when public education has reached a crisis point, to come up against the onerous concept of having the government invading into the private lives of our teachers and weeding them out for purely moralistic, puritanical reasons is frightening indeed. Comments?

Your pal, Dan...

[Long Duck Dong]

ain't freedom of expression a pain in the ass.... but without it, fuckwits like demint would not be revealed to the public for the dick heads they are

seriously, I could not give a rats ass, who my teacher fucks, ( unless it was me...and I had a gorgeous teacher..... ) my concern would be learning something other than to look down my teachers tops at their tits.....

if I was to sit on a rock and look at demint and their statements, it comes across, like, we should remove single sexually active females in the classroom.... so we should have the right to invade their privacy and personal lives for any reason to remove them and also openly gay people as well.... cos heaven forbid that our kids actually learn that sexually active single females and gay people are perfectly normal people..... and we can not encourage biased and bigoted thinking if our kids can see that there is no reason to be biased and bigoted

the other thing I see, is demint saying, single sexually active females and gay people will not sleep with me, so I do not want them teaching other people not to fuck me either

[Aravanww]

Have you noticed that it is the bigots and the haters who seem to have the power and those of us who don't care what your sexual preference, your ideology or who you are or are not fucking are the ones who pay for their backward minds? So tired of this crap. My son was doing well in the cub scouts and was heading for weblos at full tilt a few years ago when the BSA chose to no longer allow openly gay men to serve as leaders in their organisation. My son chose to no longer follow their ways due to that despite being straight. Why is it so many can not just live and let live... sigh.:three:

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

South Carolina Senator Jim DeMint believes that openly gay teachers and unmarried female teachers who engage in pre-marital sex should be removed from the classroom.

Oh good Lord...this guy needs to get a life...:rolleyes:
Cat

[rissababynta]

Ridiculous. I know why the military has had DADT in place and understand, which is why I haven't made too big of a deal about it. But this? There isn't even any logical or semi logical reason to this? It's simply someone wanting to push their ideals and values off on others.

[12voltman59]

Jim DeMint and others of his ilk are nothing more than "Weapons of Mass Distraction"*

It is something----those his type---who claim a form of "libertarianism" when it comes to things like government regulation of business, taxes and all that--have no problem using the big, nasty, brutish, strong arm of big government to try to control those "social" things they don't like.

Fucking hypocrites of the first order in my book!!!!

*They rely upon "wedge issues" such as "the gay threat" to rouse fear, loathing, anger etc. at "straw men" in order to distract and divert the attention of far too many people from the real sources of threats we face today---one of the biggest such threats is the fact that those who in the past, would have been called "capitalists," were the ones that have gutted the greater body of the American middle class---thanks to their having moved America's industrial capacity and its related jobs wholesale to places such as, irony of ironies, to a country we once called "Communist Red China!"

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

lol I'm glad the college I work at doesn't hold to this policy, I'd be out a job! lol
Cat

[darkeyes]

lol I'm glad the college I work at doesn't hold to this policy, I'd be out a job! lol
Cat

If they had such a daft policy over here so would I ..so would probably half the teachers in the land.. and I doubt they would be able to recruit very many qualified to teach... students do have their bit of fun at uni and trainee teachers are no different from any other students in this regard...

[DuckiesDarling]

The really sad thing about Demint is that he just might garner support for his crap and make a real issue out of it.

I wonder when they will start requiring all teachers to be married to an opposite sex partner in order to get a teaching position at certain schools.

[Long Duck Dong]

just out of curiousity.... how are the students gonna know about their teachers sex lives...... is it on the list of lessons to teach or something ???

I am not up to date with what is taught in us school, so thought I would ask :tong:

[12voltman59]

Ok--DeMint is a US Senator---and being the good conservative type he is--I am sure he has rallied on at times about the existence of the US Dept of Education--one of the federal agencies that conservatives vow to get rid of. It is one of their prime hated federal agencies----second only likely to the IRS.

Many on the conservative side hate much of the various things that the Ed Dept has mandated over the years, always arguing that education matters should strictly be a local matter--at least local in terms of being done at the state and not federal level.

That being the case--I wonder if DeMint is calling for his proposal to be enacted on a federal level as one of those dreaded and evil "federal mandates" that would be enforced all over the country????????????

If that is the case--My God--talk about hypocrisy!!!!

[dafydd]

Sounds like the Brigg's Initiative all over again. Poor Harvey Milk would be turning in his grave. Yet again another completely nutty opinion that makes me thankful I live in Britain. You say something like that over here, you'll be laughed out of court.

d

[darkeyes]

Sounds like the Brigg's Initiative all over again. Poor Harvey Milk would be turning in his grave. Yet again another completely nutty opinion that makes me thankful I live in Britain. You say something like that over here, you'll be laughed out of court.

d

ahhh daffy.. the land of the free indeed... but don't laugh.. we have our own share of nutty opinions do we not? Sadly, not always laughed out of court.. just like over there..

[bisexual Bill]

Jim DeMint and others of his ilk are nothing more than "Weapons of Mass Distraction"*

Yes this does seem like a major distraction.

It's not like what DeMint is rallying for has a chance of passing at all.

The teacher's unions and other educational groups and organizations would not stand for any of what he's calling for to be passed. These unions and groups are into protecting the rights and privacy of teachers.

Any teacher worth his or her salt is not going to talk openly in the classroom about their sexuality. Or if they're a woman and not married what guy(s) they've had sex with.

I'm not sure which gay male teachers go up in front of their class and say how they're homosexual and talk about nothing else when they should be teaching. Or which unmarried straight female teacher talks about how she's had sex or having sex out of marriage with some dude?

Like most politicians like even our current President when it comes to GLBT rights, with this proposal DeMint is talking loud but saying nothing.

[dafydd]

ahhh daffy.. the land of the free indeed... but don't laugh.. we have our own share of nutty opinions do we not? Sadly, not always laughed out of court.. just like over there..


but banning gay teachers would be illegal here. is this kind of thing not illegal in the US?

d

[DuckiesDarling]

Dafydd, you would think there is an easy answer to that question wouldn't you? That's what the Employment Non Discrimination Act would do. It would protect people's jobs regardless of sex, sexuality, race,religion or mental/physical disabilities.

It should be coming up for vote soon, but until it does they can unfortunately hire and fire for any reason. Most areas have actual contracts with the teachers and the school board and it would include clauses under which either party could terminate the contract. Normally it would be in proving a teacher was incompetant to teach.

Jim Demint is dangerous, the Tea Party is dangerous, the entire conservative movement is dangerous. But not just to LGBT but to anyone that believes in equality.

[bisexual Bill]

but banning gay teachers would be illegal here. is this kind of thing not illegal in the US?

d

For the most part it is not a big deal. Even if you live in a small town in a rural area.

I have gay male friends who are teachers.

They are out to their bosses and fellow teachers but not to students since they are there to teach and not talk about their personal life.

Yes the students may gossip but they say nothing to either confirm or deny it.

It's like how if a teacher is straight he or she is not going to stand up and talk frequently or talk at all about his or her relationship with a person of the opposite sex while teaching in the classroom.

[dafydd]

For the most part it is not a big deal. Even if you live in a small town in a rural area.

I have gay male friends who are teachers.

They are out to their bosses and fellow teachers but not to students since they are there to teach and not talk about their personal life.

Yes the students may gossip but they say nothing to either confirm or deny it.

It's like how if a teacher is straight he or she is not going to stand up and talk frequently or talk at all about his or her relationship with a person of the opposite sex while teaching in the classroom.

I dislike it when people confuse sexual orientation with sex. I think gay teachers should be out to students. IMO sexual orientation is not about 'a personal life' but rather a cultural identity. We need positive LGBT role models in schools for all the kids, not just the ones that will grow up gay. Knowing and seeing real life gay people will challenge stereotypes and break down boundaries. I'm out to my students, and am proud to say I'm educating some fantastically street-wise and liberated young people

d

[dafydd]

It's like how if a teacher is straight he or she is not going to stand up and talk frequently or talk at all about his or her relationship with a person of the opposite sex while teaching in the classroom.

No they don't ..because we live in a heterosexist world where people are assumed straight unless proven otherwise. In this way gay people can become invisible, and when you're invisible your easily oppressed.
But what happens when a child asks "Are you gay, sir?"
Do you lie? Do you fudge it? Do you say that's not important? you could. I wouldn't, because I believe in being honest with kids.
Teachers who are married wear wedding rings. Isn't that a constant reminder of what they do in their personal life? Maybe we should ask teachers who are married to remove their wedding rings before they enter the classroom to avoid discussion about their personal life? Kids notice these things.
d

[bisexual Bill]

I dislike it when people confuse sexual orientation with sex. I think gay teachers should be out to students. IMO sexual orientation is not about 'a personal life' but rather a cultural identity. We need positive LGBT role models in schools for all the kids, not just the ones that will grow up gay. Knowing and seeing real life gay people will challenge stereotypes and break down boundaries. I'm out to my students, and am proud to say I'm educating some fantastically street-wise and liberated young people

No they don't ..because we live in a heterosexist world where people are assumed straight unless proven otherwise. In this way gay people can become invisible, and when you're invisible your easily oppressed.
But what happens when a child asks "Are you gay, sir?"
Do you lie? Do you fudge it? Do you say that's not important? you could. I wouldn't, because I believe in being honest with kids.
Teachers who are married wear wedding rings. Isn't that a constant reminder of what they do in their personal life? Maybe we should ask teachers who are married to remove their wedding rings before they enter the classroom to avoid discussion about their personal life? Kids notice these things.
d

I did not say that it was about sex. This is about someone's personal life and relationship outside of being a teacher and away from their job at school.

They think that it's crossing a boundary with students that the students do not need to know.

That is what my gay male teacher friends have told me.

It's like how a straight teacher would not tell their students personal things like where they live, what their finances are, how long they've been married, if they've been divorced, or things like that.

Since you're a teacher and bisexual do you tell them that you are bisexual?

Or do you fib or lie and say that you're a "gay" man when you are not a gay man or homosexual at all?

My friends tell their students that whatever their sexual orientation is, that it is not important.

Usually the students that ask their teacher about his/her sexual orientation want to use this against the teacher. Or they want to start rumors and make fun of the teacher.

Lots of gay and bisexual men wear wedding rings now at least in the United States.

It's not just straight people who do this.

[darkeyes]

When I became a teacher I put down my next of kin... my partner.. when I was interviewed for the job the question of my partner was never raised, but when I was offered the job I was asked whether or not I was openly homosexual and whether or not I would prefer my sexuality to be kept under wraps. I said it doesnt matter to me because I just wanted to teach, not discuss my love life, but that things have a way of getting out anyway, so if people ask in the normal run of things in the staffroom about my family life, I had no intention of keeping my sexuality a secret from colleagues.. I'm not ashamed of it, it is legal and above board, and I cannot be discriminated against because of it.. and so staff found out pretty quickly what I was..

Kids are something different.. but once it was out among the staff it was only a matter of time for it to get out into the pupils and their parents.. and so it proved... I have avoided questions on my sexuality and simply say that "I'm here to teach not to talk about my personal life" which is my principle purpose. I got some stick and mickey taking from some quarters for a while, and got the giggling huddles when I knew they were talking about me. But this passed remarkably quickly, and now we work together in getting on with their education. My recent marriage to Kate fired it up again for a while but mostly good natured banter by them and very little rancour. I was bedevilled by questions, not all unrude either, about the ceremony, the reception, our first night, Kate, the kids, the honeymoon, Wales... mostly it was out of interest but these I fended off simply by saying "It was all lovely, we had a great time, the weather wasn't great but we did have some sun.. now can we get on with what we are here for?".

I wont say most parents are that supportive, but few have shown any resentment that I teach their children. On parents nights they chat away, more concerned about their kids progress than anything in my private life, but as with so many parents it seems they just dont want to know unless and until their kids get into some bother. Some you can tell look down their noses at me and think I am something nasty they picked up in the street stuck on their shoe. But these are very few, and so far, touch wood, things have gone much better than I could have hoped. The school is very supportive, but several of the staff arent keen on me. There is prejudice everywhere and that is only to be expected. I hope though, that by being open and honest I am helping to break down barriers and think with the children just my presence is doing that, and hope, think that is filtering through to parents.. I hope it also filters through to the less than progressive teaching staff. They however I think are the hardest wall to knock down, although at least we are being civil to one another, so who knows?

I do not discuss at any time my homosexuality with the kids. It is neither within the scope of the subject I teach nor is it appropriate. Nor do I discuss with them homosexuality generally. That is a matter for other teachers in the appropriate subject areas. There have been several unpleasant incidents, primarily among the lads, in which I have been involved, mostly on the periphery, and been asked advice by school management about how to deal with them, but do not get directly involved. I would like to, but I'm not too sure either that school or parents and certainly not management are ready for that yet.. but in a little over year since taking up my appointment, things arent too bad.. a lot better than I envisaged and even hoped.

I do not flaunt my sexuality at work.. and have the advantage of being a woman. I know male teachers would almost certainly get a very different airing were they to act as I have done. This is so unfair, yet a reality we have to accept exists, while working to eliminate that unfairness. I know many teachers who are lesbian, gay or bisexual who are much less open than I, and are still well in the closet, and I understand why and wish them well. Our society for all its progress has not yet quite made it when it comes to total acceptance of our kind in schools, or even society itself.. and regarding schools, the misunderstanding which so many have about homosexuality, and male homosexuals in particular, and the merging of homosexuality and paedophilia in the minds of many parents and teachers is something we have to have addressed. As more gay and bisexual teachers openly work in our schools, and increasingly more are working openly in schools, this will become addressed as they gain the trust of pupil, parent and staff alike, but it will take time.

I will never condemn anyone who is gay or bisexual for staying in the closet in any walk of life.. our society isnt that progressive yet, and many have very good reasons why they keep quiet about their sexuality.. in teaching as much as any other occupation and more than most.. that it should not be? Of course it should not be... but the wheels of change grind on slowly and we are getting there..

[Bluebiyou]

Ahh, DeMint... and South Carolina...
while a sense of immense pride exists historically back to the 1860s in the War against Northern Aggression (relabeled by the winning Yankees as a 'civil war' - despite the fact the south did not want anything to do with, let alone capture and rule the northern USA, merely independence from).
There is also an immense sense of current political/religious/pop culture shame.
From the woman who drove her living children into a deep lake/quarry to be with her boyfriend (read further on Susan Smith and her stepfather to aid your view of SC), to men with young girls kept sexual captive in woodland dungeons, to ... DeMint...

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

LOL When I was first interviewed up here for the Mobility Aide Dept at the college I work at, I was already told I pretty much wouldnt be getting the position because 1. I was an unmarried female, and 2. The main coordinator had already made up his mind to hire a Male Mobility Aide for that semester...His nephew.
So I went into the interview with my normal flippant attitude and answered the queastions in my normal smart assed fashion:

Admin: Are you a practising Homosexual?
Me: No Sir. I'm not a Homosexual.
Admin: Have you Ever pracrised Male Homosexuality?
Me: Uhhh no. Considering that I'm not male.
Admin: Ok, so are you a practising Bi Sexual?
Me: No, I pretty much have it down pat. (Now bear in mind I'm doing this with my usual total straight serious face)
Admin: Are you sexually active?
Me: Not at this very moment, no. That's usually saved for Saturday night date night.

Admin: Would you Ever practise Homosexual activities outside of the workplace?
Me: No, but I'd watch if they didnt have a prob with it. And I wouldnt throw popcorn or turn over rating cards...that would be extremely bad form....."

This poor man didnt know what to do but stare at me. I was Dead serious and he didnt know what of think of it!
I've been working there 4 years now, and he Still wont look me in the eyes when I pass him in the halls...:bigrin:;)
Bad Cat

[TaylorMade]

Yes this does seem like a major distraction.

It's not like what DeMint is rallying for has a chance of passing at all.

The teacher's unions and other educational groups and organizations would not stand for any of what he's calling for to be passed. These unions and groups are into protecting the rights and privacy of teachers.

Any teacher worth his or her salt is not going to talk openly in the classroom about their sexuality. Or if they're a woman and not married what guy(s) they've had sex with.

I'm not sure which gay male teachers go up in front of their class and say how they're homosexual and talk about nothing else when they should be teaching. Or which unmarried straight female teacher talks about how she's had sex or having sex out of marriage with some dude?

Like most politicians like even our current President when it comes to GLBT rights, with this proposal DeMint is talking loud but saying nothing.


This. And there are court cases that have protected a teachers personal life. The senator is being an idiot, and you all are being alarmists, giving into your primal, lemming like instincts. <facepalm>

*Taylor*

[TaylorMade]

Ahh, DeMint... and South Carolina...
while a sense of immense pride exists historically back to the 1860s in the War against Northern Aggression (relabeled by the winning Yankees as a 'civil war' - despite the fact the south did not want anything to do with, let alone capture and rule the northern USA, merely independence from).
There is also an immense sense of current political/religious/pop culture shame.
From the woman who drove her living children into a deep lake/quarry to be with her boyfriend (read further on Susan Smith and her stepfather to aid your view of SC), to men with young girls kept sexual captive in woodland dungeons, to ... DeMint...

Thanks for that lovely dose of Northern Elitism, tarring an entire state due to the quirks of a couple residents.

*Taylor*

[darkeyes]

Thanks for that lovely dose of Northern Elitism, tarring an entire state due to the quirks of a couple residents.

*Taylor*

Sadly these things happen Taylor.. a bit like an entire belief system tarred with the same brush as a few lunatic arseholes!

[danreidbarmi]

Jim Demint is dangerous, the Tea Party is dangerous, the entire conservative movement is dangerous. But not just to LGBT but to anyone that believes in equality.

This, my friends, is exactly the point I wanted to make by drawing your attention to his stated opinion, an opinion he refuses to recant. He has not, as has been suggested in this thread proposed legislation to this effect (see how rumors get started!). However, DeMint is the official spokesman, figurehead and the chief fundraiser for Tea Party candidates.

For a movement to declare it is for smaller, less invasive government, while continuing to advocate for government control of what we do privately with our own bodies is the height of hypocrisy. They are the self-proclaimed Christians who oppose abortion yet whole-heartedly support capital punishment and war, who spout the 10 Commandments, yet turn their haughty noses up at the homeless. And, these are the very people who, by shouting loudest, are grabbing the attention of the media and winning the angry, frustrated votes of the American public.

Christine O'Donnell IS a witch.

[TaylorMade]

This, my friends, is exactly the point I wanted to make by drawing your attention to his stated opinion, an opinion he refuses to recant. He has not, as has been suggested in this thread proposed legislation to this effect (see how rumors get started!). However, DeMint is the official spokesman, figurehead and the chief fundraiser for Tea Party candidates.

For a movement to declare it is for smaller, less invasive government, while continuing to advocate for government control of what we do privately with our own bodies is the height of hypocrisy. They are the self-proclaimed Christians who oppose abortion yet whole-heartedly support capital punishment and war, who spout the 10 Commandments, yet turn their haughty noses up at the homeless. And, these are the very people who, by shouting loudest, are grabbing the attention of the media and winning the angry, frustrated votes of the American public.

Christine O'Donnell IS a witch.

This is why I changed my profile. If you paid attention, you would know that the Tea Party is a loose confederation of people, causes, and ideas. To point to one person as the head of this group would be like pointing to one person as the head of the lbgt rights movement.

As you yourself have pointed out: THERE IS NO LEGISLATION TO SUPPORT DEMINTS STATEMENTS. I REPEAT: THERE IS NO LEGISLATION ON THE TABLE. This is no different than Focus on the Family putting out one of their fearmongering letters. We're better than this...right?

*Taylor*

[dafydd]

I did not say that it was about sex. This is about someone's personal life and relationship outside of being a teacher and away from their job at school.

They think that it's crossing a boundary with students that the students do not need to know.

That is what my gay male teacher friends have told me.

It's like how a straight teacher would not tell their students personal things like where they live, what their finances are, how long they've been married, if they've been divorced, or things like that.

Since you're a teacher and bisexual do you tell them that you are bisexual?

Or do you fib or lie and say that you're a "gay" man when you are not a gay man or homosexual at all?

My friends tell their students that whatever their sexual orientation is, that it is not important.

Usually the students that ask their teacher about his/her sexual orientation want to use this against the teacher. Or they want to start rumors and make fun of the teacher.

Lots of gay and bisexual men wear wedding rings now at least in the United States.

It's not just straight people who do this.

I answer appropriate questions honestly. My pupils have asked me about my orientation and I have told them. It's quite a liberating experience for them and me. If they asked more personal questions then I would say they were personal questions. Gay teachers are often not the best people to be able to discuss this because of the fear of rejection. Pupils will start rumours whether or not you tell them. There are no rumours about me being bi, because everyone knows I am bi. It all comes back to role models. Out gay/bi teachers can be fantastic role models. We need more of them.

d

[dafydd]

Lots of gay and bisexual men wear wedding rings now at least in the United States.

It's not just straight people who do this.

But we live in a heterosexist world. Everything is based on straight norms unless proven otherwise. People probably assume these teachers are straight.

d

[bisexual Bill]

But we live in a heterosexist world. Everything is based on straight norms unless proven otherwise. People probably assume these teachers are straight.

d

Maybe, maybe not.

I know gay male teachers who are so camp and such screaming queens that wear wedding rings on their left hand to signify that they have a husband.

Nobody thinks that they are heterosexual at all.

[BiCycler]

My students don't know about my sexuality. That would not be any different if I was straight. (although I can't even think straight anymore). Some of the more savvy parents know and one or two of my colleagues as well. I know this because I have had conversations with them about it at their instigation. My principal suspects, I think, but being a champion of progressiveness, I believe he hops on a reed boat in Egypt whenever he considers my sexuality. I have heard the odd homophobic, and by extension, biphobic sentiments from him. I'm sure that there are parents who would be very vocal in their dissaproval of having a "pervert" teaching their kids. My guess is that they would be eventually overwhelmed with sympathetic response from others but I'm not sure I'm ready to take that on. We had an incident at our school of a sexual nature that involved children and no adults. Things got ugly for a while. The issue made it to the local press and eventually to national media with little or no regard for the children involved. I've seen the inanity of witch hunting at full speed. I can only imagine how a teacher's sexuality might fan the flames of those ashes back into a firestorm. Hmmmm, maybe more reason to take it on. The more I think about it the more I resent being called alarmist when discussing such news items. There is a very real dichotomy in society that profoundly effects the way we live our lives. I am guarded at school. I am guarded for good reason as some others have stated: my sexuality does not belong in the classroom. Beyond that I live a dual life because I value my career and think that I do a good job as well and would not want to lose that for either myself or my clients. Without those that do "take it on" and stand against voices like Demint's, I wonder at the wisdom of letting loose to the world that bit of infomation about my sexuality. Why should I have to live like that?
Demint seems to be backed deeply (not bad for a straight guy). Three cheers for the alarmists.:flag2::rainbow:

[Doggiestyle]

Actually, this one is real simple here!!! :female: :male:

Don't ask

Don't tell

Don't matter

Your friend, :doggie: