Hi, food for thought.. Dan Savage...

[BobbyGlendinning]

Hi,

You guys get into such interesting discussions on this website! I wish I could spend more time on the forums but I am so busy with the other online publishing and research I do, plus the teaching, etc., I only get to come once in a while.

The discussion of Dan Savage's "It gets better" was interesting on another thread. Here's something I wrote about it, before the suicides hit:

http://colorfulconservative.blogspot.com/2010/09/time-mag-why-not-exploit-childhood.html

Just some perspective, maybe something folks might not think of.

Have a great day, everyone.

[Long Duck Dong]

I think, therefore I am....... but my thoughts are shaped by my understanding and knowledge......

can a kid say they are gay at 11, why yes they can....... but a kid can say that as we have taught the child the * criteria * for being gay / hetero / bi / les / trans and we have taught them the labels needed to label themselves.....
however we can not teach the child the soft touch of the first kiss, the taste of their lips, the look in their eyes, the way our heart beats.....

and so it becomes a label the child will wear until they experience enuf understanding so that the label becomes a self defined identity.....

I wrote a thread once in this site about how levels of attraction below sexual attraction are a form of bisexual attraction and was told by adults in this site that I was wrong.........
but a non sexual active child, thinks in terms of friends and buddies, ..... not in the terms of sexual attraction and desire that adults understand

the argument used against me was that sexuality refers to sexual attraction and onwards.....

a 11 year old gay child may have no idea of sexual attraction, but they would have a understanding of friends and buddies......... if they have no female friends or desire to have female friends, we can argue that makes them gay..... and re-enforce that understanding on them...... instead of allowing the child to go thru puberty and a path of self exploration and examination and turn their own label into a identity......

we have people in the site that state that they knew they were les / gay / bi / trans from a young age cos they felt different ..... different to what I ask..... different to the structured guidelines of what you need to be to fall inside the framework of LGBT/ hetero ??? trans ??? non trans ???? gender confused ???????

as we all know, we are all subject to change of understanding and self labelling.... and many of us will tweak our own labels.......

so it can be argued that a lot of the lgbt suicides are not just cos of bullying and harassment, it can also be incorrect labelling by others that are * helping * people.... and making it harder for the person to change the label to one that is more correct

I can not help but wonder how much we ourselves can contribute to the demise of those we try to help due to our own blindness and sticking to our own definations of sexuality and labeling... and in doing so, remove the persons ability to re invent their sexual identity according to their own understanding.......

the same thing happens with intersex children when they are born with dual gentalia and we remove one or the other to *create * the child we want..... and they grow up to become the opposite gender to what we decided they will be

[Falke]

LDD has some great points. Yes, kids are impressionable, but they do have a minds of their own. So, yes, it is possible to identify some sexual identity when they are younger. Especially since other orientations have become more commonly known of than when I was growing up. Further, for those kids mislabeled they get to feel the sting of being made fun of for something they are not, hence another reason why being bashed for sexual orientation needs to be addressed.

Even though it has been said that Dan would just as soon label these kids as gay,but kids are a little smarter than that. Eventually they will work out what they are, but they should be able to without being forced into an orientation, then treated poorly for it. Be it from assholes in the school yard, or as alleged from Dan himself. The bonus for Dan and from many videos/stories from people who joined the campaign (Many being bisexual I might add) show that there is hope for those being bulled for being different. When I was going through the bullying, seeing and hearing from people whom were fighting/fought the same battle, even for a different reason, would have been an inspiration.


Lastly, Bobby, I find your advice here pre-mature:


Having said that, hey, I'm a queer adult and I have advice for bullied teens:


Read up on the 2nd Amendment.


Get yourself a handgun.


Join a shooting range.


Elect leaders who belong to the NRA.


Next time someone tries to mess with you, show them your weapon. And if you're in danger, don't kill yourself. Shoot the person who's threatening you. Then get a good lawyer and get off on self-defense.



Don't get me wrong, being a CCW holder and gun enthusiast myself I agree to a point in your statement. However, your recommendation has some flaws.

A:Last time I checked one must be 21 to own a pistol and 18 to own a rifle.

B:Gun/knives/anything that can remotely cause physical harm are illegal in public schools.


While it may work for those whom were attacked on the street for whatever reason when they are older, but this DOES NOT work for teens to remedy the situation they are in now.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Having said that, hey, I'm a queer adult and I have advice for bullied teens:


Read up on the 2nd Amendment.


Get yourself a handgun.


Join a shooting range.


Elect leaders who belong to the NRA.


Next time someone tries to mess with you, show them your weapon. And if you're in danger, don't kill yourself. Shoot the person who's threatening you. Then get a good lawyer and get off on self-defense.


Who's hair-brained mentality came up with this BS??? I thankfully missed this one. Telling a kid of Any age to resort to this kind of violence is just plain ridiculous. You are advocating someone to get killed, and these damn kids are scary enough as it is!
My 2 cents, deal wif it.
Cat

[citystyleguy]

…well, an interesting thread! Not the usual topics regarding sucking dicks, eating cum, etc. generally not that interested, then suddenly this bit on, either one person’s opinion on Dan Savage, teen suicide, or when and how does one come to terms with sexuality…

Anyway, I will try to stick to topic, and give a stab as coherently as possible; first off, quoting stat’s is a dangerous proposition. Sufficient to say that if the reported figures are the issue, without more knowledge of the development of the stat’s quoted, then there is nothing with which to hang an argument on. Then, I am uncertain as to the expectation of the thread writer, as the poster is the one who posted the blog dealing with, and I am speculating here, Dan Savage, teen suicide, teen sexuality, both of the prior, or bullies, all a tad convoluted.

Taking that the blog/thread is focused on Dan Savage and his concern for teen access to information on sexuality, and the poster in both areas, and his take on teen access to the same, I would encourage any child of mine to read both, then talk about the subject matter with as many others as possible, to develop some understanding not of just the issues, but as the means others develop to reach an understanding, and a chosen direction regarding the issue under discussion.

If the focus is on teens accessing any information, from whatever source, the more sites available the better, and from any and all types of viewpoints needs to be wholly encouraged. Far too many parents, and other adults in the family, are not the best for fonts of knowledge and/or understanding.

The anguish that leads so many teens to acts of desperation, are caused for so many reasons, that simple statistics cannot even begin to give any concept as to the cause. It is not important to restate the causes, as everyone can cite any number of situations; I do firmly believe that any of their questions deserve our focus, and anything that can be done is vital to their well being. Also, to restate the above, access to as many sources of information is mandatory, thus my support of websites such as that developed by Dan, to help gather information on any subject; hiding anyone from what exists has never helped a person at any age.

However, if it is to bullies, your simplistic advice is sheer stupidity; it’s been acted out, and we are left reading about the results. Can you honestly believe in this horseshit as a practical solution to any issue??? As is stated in the blog, it is written that through discussion, understanding can be achieved, so statements such as yours is a contradiction in any and all considerations. I would have my child read your blog, but I would have to give consideration to blocking access to your statements on bullies; since I am by persuasion not given to stemming access, yours would be read together by myself and any child of mine, so that we could immediately give consideration to the content.

As someone with a distinctly different viewpoint, or I should say viewpoints, I have bookmarked the blog, and will read the content of the various bloggers.

[DuckiesDarling]

Bobby, have you read up on the statistics about school shootings? And you offer advice to troubled kids to get a gun and threaten bullies? Half the school shootings including Columbine and Pearl were because someone was bullied and didn't feel they fit in. So way to go, just go get another couple kids dead, who the fuck cares right? I mean they were prolly hetero anyway.

You really need to take responsibility for the shit you put on the net cause one of these days it will bite you in the ass. I state that as a member of the NRA and someone that can shoot the dick off a flea, so don't try to come back quoting the second amendment at me.

[TaylorMade]

Bobby, have you read up on the statistics about school shootings? And you offer advice to troubled kids to get a gun and threaten bullies? Half the school shootings including Columbine and Pearl were because someone was bullied and didn't feel they fit in. So way to go, just go get another couple kids dead, who the fuck cares right? I mean they were prolly hetero anyway.

You really need to take responsibility for the shit you put on the net cause one of these days it will bite you in the ass. I state that as a member of the NRA and someone that can shoot the dick off a flea, so don't try to come back quoting the second amendment at me.


I'll agree... Weapons are more an option for a grown LBGT, not a scared and unbalanced kid who doesn't even know who he or she is yet.


*Taylor*

[12voltman59]

Instead of giving the kid a gun and teaching him or her how to use it--better to get them early on into classes for marital arts such as Aikido and Krav Maga so they don't need any weapons to defend themselves---they can use their hands and bodies--and in so doing--instilling a sense of confidence in them in many ways.


With both forms of self-defense training--they can surely learn to effectively defend themselves--but can quickly use deadly force against an attacker should that be necessary.

We have way too many goddammed weapons on our streets as it is and way too many people thinking the way to handle things is "shoot first---ask questions later!!

We don't need any more guns circulating out there and we also need to rid people of the notion that use of a deadly weapon is the first way to handle problems--instead of such use being one of the very last ways to deal with things.

[danreidbarmi]

[B]Telling a kid of Any age to resort to this kind of violence is just plain ridiculous. You are advocating someone to get killed
Cat

Jeeze, I'm with you here, Cat. I'm terrified by the very idea of encouraging anyone to deal with this or any other issue with a firearm. What kind of coping skill is that? Here we are using words to discuss issues, and somebody's using words to advise a kid not to use words, to use a weapon? (or at least brandish one)

And, the whole question of whether a kid knows he or she is hetero or homo at 11 is really an individual one and irrelevant to the actual problem. The problem is stigma. Gay is a stigma, whether or not the victim is actually gay, undecided, or in flux. To be ostracized and ridiculed because of a peer's perception is just about the most painful thing a pre-teen or teen can suffer.

Packin' heat, however, is not the answer. Send the kid to karate school, sure. But, bullets are not the ultimate answer to any conflict. Shame on you, Bobby, for even joking about such a thing. Rent Gus Van Sant's brilliant film, Elephant. (Come to think about it, I gotta see that flick again.)

Another Dan, within reason...

[bisexual Bill]

I don't think you should be advocating kids to start getting their hands on firearms or other weapons as a way to stop bullying in schools.