Ian Singing Posts

[IanBorthwick]

TO one and all, I am posting this poll because I am wondering whether or not I am bothering you all with these posts of my singing linked to the Site. I have few friends in life and I get the feeling I stand on their good graces a bit longer than is comfortable for them. From the lack of response here except from a few dear people, I have gotten the sensation that I am becoming a nuisance.

It's easier for me to just let those who want to hear them, I suppose, follow the link and see what I have to offer. My reason for presenting it to you all here is to see what people think and if they like it. On the SingSnap site it's a popularity thing more than anything else, so regardless of how you sing those whoa re well known are rated perfectly.

I know it's a cheap way to gain some recognition, but it beats running around showing off pictures of myself in the nude. After all, there is more to love than genitalia. If someone likes me I am hoping it would be for my depth rather than my surface features(And I know my surface features are gorss so don't bother telling me, I know)

Here's your chance to vote.

[onewhocares]

Well Ian, I am a believer that the more information we put out there, the more others will be informed. I know that although this is a biSEXual site, I get tired of the threads that are based on cock size, shaved or not, tits or tats....there is MORE to life.

I personally did not click on the first few threads you started, but the did and found a nice enjoyable voice to listen to and particularly enjoy the song selection. Also, I admire you because I have always wanted to be able to sing and well, I was not blessed with an on tune voice.

So keep the songs coming.....

Belle

[gfofbiguy]

I really enjoy listening to your singing, Ian and I think you should keep posting them. I try to listen to as many of them as I can, but I don't know much about that site, other than the listening part - do we vote over there too for you? or do they somehow count the number of people who listen to each of your songs by the number of people who click onto your page? Anywho, keep posting them please, because I do enjoy them :-)

[IanBorthwick]

Thanks you two. Thus far the votes are against me and I intend to respect the wishes of those who vote.

[dman82]

I haven't listened to your singing yet, but more power to you for posting more then nude pics. I personally will not post nudes either because I agree there is more to life then sex. Yes it is fun, but it is not the only thing in life. I have other hobbys I enjoy as well, and not all people like talking about those things. I figure if you keep doing it you will find those that agree with you and like you for you and can go from there. My best wishes to you, and hopefully you make it big some day.

[Canticle]

Don't you dare think about not posting the links to your new recordings! Of course, I am biased. I am your number one fan and secretary of your fan club :bigrin::bigrin:

[DuckiesDarling]

Okay and I am not intending to be mean here. But the poll is very short sighted. It's not that people don't want you posting but maybe they would be more comfortable if you had one thread. No offense intended. So I'm refraining from voting as there is not a category I would vote for.

[Caaveman]

Ian, first off let me say hello. Now, in my own humble opinion...
You should keep doing what you want to do, no matter what this poll's
outcome is. If anyone doesn't want to read your post then they have the
option of going on past it. I have only listened to a couple of your songs,
and I thaught you did good. I'd heap rather see a post about someones
love of music and singing than to see one where someone is flaming someone.

If it's not there, no one has the option of hearing it.
But if it's there everyone can make their own choice.

Good luck, what ever you decide to do.
Sincerly, Will

[Canticle]

:wiggle2::shades::bowdown::upside::smilies15:frog: :impleased:paw::rotate:


OK.....did that make you smile, Ian.......:bigrin::tong::bigrin:

Keep singing, keep posting the links, keep choosing excellent songs (Can't wait to hear that one we talked about ;))

I'm peeved that I cannot vote twice :(

Never mind..all is cool....if you catch my drift..:cool:

[IanBorthwick]

:wiggle2::shades::bowdown::upside::smilies15:frog: :impleased:paw::rotate:


OK.....did that make you smile, Ian.......:bigrin::tong::bigrin:

Keep singing, keep posting the links, keep choosing excellent songs (Can't wait to hear that one we talked about ;))

I'm peeved that I cannot vote twice :(

Never mind..all is cool....if you catch my drift..:cool:

I'm glad that many like my posts. I'll do my best to make one thread then for them all and update it as time goes on. The older versions of many songs are going to be torn down and redone, and for the future I have planned:

Bodies-Robbie Williams
The Street Where You Live-My Fair Lady
All By Myself

ANyone care to add to what they would like me to try?

[bisexual Bill]

I don't listen to your music but maybe put them all in one thread?

Then you can post links to new songs and people can comment on them all in one thread.

[TaylorMade]

Just put it in a single thread so those who aren't interested don't have to wade through it. :)

*Taylor*

[vittoria]

Post what makes you feel good... everyone else does! And why bother with the votes? It just lets you know how anal (LMAO) people really are... its like the television... if one doesnt like it, one can always 'change the channel' **hugs**

[Canticle]

^5 Vittoria........Quite right!

[DuckiesDarling]

Post what makes you feel good... everyone else does! And why bother with the votes? It just lets you know how anal (LMAO) people really are... its like the television... if one doesnt like it, one can always 'change the channel' **hugs**

I don't agree with that analogy, Vitt. It's not a matter of changing a channel. There are multiple threads sometimes three or four at one time posted. That may be what gets people upset. If it was one thread those that want to listen and follow and support can and probably would. But when multiple threads get posted it pushes off topics where people are asking for help though I don't mind if it pushes off the political topics that have not a damned thing to do with bisexuals, bisexuality or anything with LGBT period.

[Canticle]

I don't agree with that analogy, Vitt. It's not a matter of changing a channel. There are multiple threads sometimes three or four at one time posted. That may be what gets people upset. If it was one thread those that want to listen and follow and support can and probably would. But when multiple threads get posted it pushes off topics where people are asking for help though I don't mind if it pushes off the political topics that have not a damned thing to do with bisexuals, bisexuality or anything with LGBT period.

Whilst I would agree with you, DD, that one thread, opened by Ian, would be an excellent idea and there he could share, in greater concentration, his enviable talent with those who wish to appreciate it, I cannot see what wrong there is, in him having posted several threads. Ian is sharing part of what makes him, who he is, with the rest of the site.

Personally, I cannot see how two, three, or four threads, posted by Ian, could possibly upset anyone. The list of subjects on the forum, is just that, a list and if anyone wants to look for certain subject matter, they can go to the main forum. People certainly do look at the list of subjects, because many 'old' topics, are brought back to life and new comments are added.

Ian's threads have no more knocked serious subjects off the main forum page, than jovial threads, posted by members and there are many, many of those. Sometimes there are multiple postings, on virtually the same subject, about what you may class as 'serious,' topics. There are people who have said that this is not necessary. Yet to the person opening a thread....it is very important.

I think that many people would disagree with you about political etc, topics and feel that they do, indeed have a lot to do with bisexuals, bisexuality and things LGBT.

We all live in the same world and come across similar problems in our lives. Gay, Bi, or Straight, we all have views and feel a great need to discuss many different subjects with one another.

It's a great way to communicate. An amazing way to understand others. Some of the very serious subjects have seen intelligent debate.....from extremely knowledgeable people.

It is when we stop communicating with other people, that walls get built, misunderstandings happen and people end up believing what they want to believe and for no apparent reason.

So I have to disagree with your analogy, though appreciating what you mean and where you are coming from, with your opinion. We should always respect the beliefs and ideas of others.

But, I think Vittoria is correct, in telling Ian to post how he wants, when others do very much the same. I look forward to Ian creating a special thread, listing all those songs, he has already recorded and those yet to come. And if you haven't had the good fortune to listen to any of those recordings, I think you'd enjoy them. Ian has a lovely voice.

[DuckiesDarling]

I've listened, Canticle and to put it bluntly...well it's more caberet than sell out concert. There is talent but it's the difference in talent between off off Broadway and Broadway. I can't sing myself but I have perfect pitch and I listen to lots of music. So while I wouldn't mind him posting one thread, I mean everytime he posts it would push it to the top so everyone would know there is a new song to listen to, it would not be at the point where it is obviously (from the poll answers) annoying some.

[Canticle]

I've listened, Canticle and to put it bluntly...well it's more caberet than sell out concert. There is talent but it's the difference in talent between off off Broadway and Broadway. I can't sing myself but I have perfect pitch and I listen to lots of music. So while I wouldn't mind him posting one thread, I mean everytime he posts it would push it to the top so everyone would know there is a new song to listen to, it would not be at the point where it is obviously (from the poll answers) annoying some.

Oh, DD, it could never be cabaret, or sell out concert, if recorded, as Ian has done, within the confines of one's own home. I really don't know what one could expect to hear...and Broadway?...lol! I think many, many of us have what could be determined ''perfect pitch,'' and if we can sing, too..all the better. Having perfect pitch, I am sure you will realise what made Sinatra such a great singer, even if he didn't have the greatest voice in the world.....He pitched just under the note...therefore giving him more control.

Ian has a trained voice...he knows when and how to breathe, etc. This gives him greater control when singing and anyone who can sing, will tell you that this is extremely important. I can sing and I sing totally unaccompanied, but unlike Ian, I don't have that training. Wow, wish that I did. It also never ceases amazes me, how easy it is, to sing what one would think, a very difficult song and vice versa.

I, like you and most people, listen to lots of music and there is always some new to discover. I have recordings of whale song, which is a most beautiful thing to listen to. I like Latin Plain song...a great aid to meditation. When I look at the many CDs I have, it amazes me, the variety of music, that pleases my ear. Reckon that is how it should be and always open to discovering new music.

Being a 'voices,' person...and not so much bands...it's always good to be introduced to yet another singer, who's singing voice will gladden the heart. ''A thing of beauty, is a joy forever'',,,,,and Ian has a talent, which should be something to share and be pleasing to listen to.

Polls....they don't really mean anything at all......as Politicians have discovered, to their cost.

Like I said...I agree...one thread, would be a good idea. Maybe someone else, who can sing, would like to do the same as Ian and share their talent. Raising the heart and soul....bringing joy.

[IanBorthwick]

I have no idea what Cabaret singing is, or what she meant. I didn't think I was so bad as to be called off off off broadway. :(

No idea what that means.

The sound equipment I have is rather crappy, but... Seriously, though, have NOT been commenting back because it seems to me that some of what I am "disrupting" is crap about sex and if that is the "business" of being a bisexual then all of what is supposedly is important to us is sex and only sex. Like we have no higher thoughts in general. How tight should a condom feel,BBW Fetishism, Do women thing Bi Men are an advantage,Bisexual Porn, DO you do it in the dark, Porn and Sex ID,Butt Plugs, do you prefer cut or uncut cock, Fisting anyone? Looking for MMF Threesomes.

I don't know, what should I think? I'm too inexperienced.

In all honesty, if THAT is what I am disrupting and somehow a few threads of my singing have disrupted things so badly I apologize. This is why I asked, but also to show you that if my disruption is because it misses a mark that is considered "Appropriate Talk for Good Little Bisexuals" then guess what, I am forced to consider myself NOT one.

It's part of the welcome many I think get here and that's just sad really. A line from a song goes,"I get my kicks ABOVE the waistline, sunshine!" is appropriate to me. I am bisexual and yes, that is a factor of who I am, but who in the hell thinks sex 24/7/365 after the dawn of puberty in their life? Because if that's one of the criteria for being truly Bisexual, I guess I am out of the :flag2: carrying crowd.

As I said several times, I can keep it to a single thread, and I won't try to inject Humor like others in the thread naming to get a laugh and a smile. I'm not in the Clique where you can get away with it I see that perfectly.

Am I hurt? No. Will I stop posting, I really don't know. I don't want people to beg me, I do want feedback positive and negative, I'm not looking for loads of attention. I apologize on the linked pages for the issues with my equipment, and you do not have to listen. Believe me, I am doing this for my own private reasons that I will let only those who care to know hear because posting anything personal has made me a target for over 5 years here and I need that like I need some to grab my head and serve me like a volleyball over a net.

SO my apologies to one and all for any discomfort my recording issues caused you, and I give you back to your regularly scheduled threads on cum gargling, big and small penis size, first time anal and gang bang parties.

:rolleyes:

PS: Canty, your mailbox is full and I cannot send you any private messages until you clear it some dear.

[Long Duck Dong]

cabaret singing is like small cafe singing.... think beer halls and places like that..... lounge singers and entertainers....

the site is a bisexual site, and yes many different people come and post the same types of threads, but they are individuals with different views and opinions, hence we have the multiple threads about the same topics.....

now sure canticle would not see a issue with multiple singing threads in the forum... but thats mainly cos the bulk of bisexuality and sexual activities are not really something that she actively participates in..... so yeah canticle is happy to see bisexual.com turn into baritone.com.....

I logged in to the site one day, to see a few threads and 4 ian singing threads on the main page.... complete with canticle doing hero worship......
and new people to the site would be wondering what the hell is going on.....

seriously, if you want to have song threads all over the main page of a website, go create one... that will give you full control over what is posted, how, the level of feedback....... also, that way, your songs are not lost in the depths of a sexuality site forum.......

[Canticle]

''cabaret singing is like small cafe singing.... think beer halls and places like that..... lounge singers and entertainers....''

I think that Ian's voice has been trained a little beyond what you mention here.

''the site is a bisexual site, and yes many different people come and post the same types of threads, but they are individuals with different views and opinions, hence we have the multiple threads about the same topics.....''

Ian is an individual and bisexual. He also contributes to threads on varying subjects.....intelligently.

''now sure canticle would not see a issue with multiple singing threads in the forum...''

Please do not assume that you know my opinion. I have already stated that one thread, would be a very good idea. I am sure Ian will give that suggestion much thought and do something along those lines. It's a good idea.

''but thats mainly cos the bulk of bisexuality and sexual activities are not really something that she actively participates in.....''

My sexuality has nothing to do with what I may or may not appreciate. It seems to me and this can only be my humble opinion, that there are plenty of bisexuals, members of this site, who might also say that they did not actively participate in ''the bulk of bisexuality and bisexual activities.'' and for various reasons.

''so yeah canticle is happy to see bisexual.com turn into baritone.com..... ''

Now you are saying, what I would be happy to see happening to the site. Total nonsense. Ian is doing no more than many other people do. He is trying to share part of what makes him, who he is, with everyone else and at the same time, allow those interested enough to listen, hear something pleasant.

So LDD, don't feel you need to make cracks like that, when it is totally unnecessary.

''I logged in to the site one day, to see a few threads and 4 ian singing threads on the main page.... complete with canticle doing hero worship......
and new people to the site would be wondering what the hell is going on.....''

I have never seen that many of Ian's threads on the main page at the same time. If that has happened...all the more reason to create one thread.

I don't hero worship anyone!! Am I now, not supposed to tell someone, as have others, that what I have listened to, has been well sung and say so, in a not too serious manner...keeping it lighthearted. I haven't even seen all of Ian's posts.....so your comment falls flat, there.

Why should new people to the site be ''wondering what the hell is going on''....Are you trying to tell me, that people just find the site and register, without having first, read threads and done some roving on the forum. I think that is probably what new members do, because there are always many, many guests, reading current and also much older threads.

I give people enough credit, to be intelligent enough to work out, that the site has members, who have interests which cover many subjects. Topics that are enjoyed, whether one be gay, bi or straight.

''seriously, if you want to have song threads all over the main page of a website, go create one... that will give you full control over what is posted, how, the level of feedback....... also, that way, your songs are not lost in the depths of a sexuality site forum.......''

So, LDD....do you see any place, anywhere upon the site, for even a single thread, containing Ian singing, or do you think such an item has no place on the site, at all.

Because if it doesn't have any place upon the site, neither do any humorous threads, threads where people talk about more serious matters, or health concerns, which are the same, whatever one's sexuality, or what books are read, films enjoyed, art work, stories, memories of the way things were in our childhood, what it is like in different countries, saying Happy Birthday to a member, etc, etc.

As many people on the site say.....life is not just about sex and sexual matters and sexuality.....and that is bisexuals posting things like that.

I actually thought it rather nice, to be able to see one of the members, on cam and not only singing.....but smiling! That is when someone ceases to become, just lines of type.

[Long Duck Dong]

''cabaret singing is like small cafe singing.... think beer halls and places like that..... lounge singers and entertainers....''

I think that Ian's voice has been trained a little beyond what you mention here.

''the site is a bisexual site, and yes many different people come and post the same types of threads, but they are individuals with different views and opinions, hence we have the multiple threads about the same topics.....''

Ian is an individual and bisexual. He also contributes to threads on varying subjects.....intelligently.

''now sure canticle would not see a issue with multiple singing threads in the forum...''

Please do not assume that you know my opinion. I have already stated that one thread, would be a very good idea. I am sure Ian will give that suggestion much thought and do something along those lines. It's a good idea.

''but thats mainly cos the bulk of bisexuality and sexual activities are not really something that she actively participates in.....''

My sexuality has nothing to do with what I may or may not appreciate. It seems to me and this can only be my humble opinion, that there are plenty of bisexuals, members of this site, who might also say that they did not actively participate in ''the bulk of bisexuality and bisexual activities.'' and for various reasons.

''so yeah canticle is happy to see bisexual.com turn into baritone.com..... ''

Now you are saying, what I would be happy to see happening to the site. Total nonsense. Ian is doing no more than many other people do. He is trying to share part of what makes him, who he is, with everyone else and at the same time, allow those interested enough to listen, hear something pleasant.

So LDD, don't feel you need to make cracks like that, when it is totally unnecessary.

''I logged in to the site one day, to see a few threads and 4 ian singing threads on the main page.... complete with canticle doing hero worship......
and new people to the site would be wondering what the hell is going on.....''

I have never seen that many of Ian's threads on the main page at the same time. If that has happened...all the more reason to create one thread.

I don't hero worship anyone!! Am I now, not supposed to tell someone, as have others, that what I have listened to, has been well sung and say so, in a not too serious manner...keeping it lighthearted. I haven't even seen all of Ian's posts.....so your comment falls flat, there.

Why should new people to the site be ''wondering what the hell is going on''....Are you trying to tell me, that people just find the site and register, without having first, read threads and done some roving on the forum. I think that is probably what new members do, because there are always many, many guests, reading current and also much older threads.

I give people enough credit, to be intelligent enough to work out, that the site has members, who have interests which cover many subjects. Topics that are enjoyed, whether one be gay, bi or straight.

''seriously, if you want to have song threads all over the main page of a website, go create one... that will give you full control over what is posted, how, the level of feedback....... also, that way, your songs are not lost in the depths of a sexuality site forum.......''

So, LDD....do you see any place, anywhere upon the site, for even a single thread, containing Ian singing, or do you think such an item has no place on the site, at all.

Because if it doesn't have any place upon the site, neither do any humorous threads, threads where people talk about more serious matters, or health concerns, which are the same, whatever one's sexuality, or what books are read, films enjoyed, art work, stories, memories of the way things were in our childhood, what it is like in different countries, saying Happy Birthday to a member, etc, etc.

As many people on the site say.....life is not just about sex and sexual matters and sexuality.....and that is bisexuals posting things like that.

I actually thought it rather nice, to be able to see one of the members, on cam and not only singing.....but smiling! That is when someone ceases to become, just lines of type.

ian was not sure about what carabet singing was.. so i explained it, I was not talking about what I think of his singing.....so you definately screwed up there.....

I also was refering to the way that different people post their views on the same topics.....so that is why we see the multiple threads on the same issues...... and ian is one bisexual posting multiple threads about his singing... so there is a difference

the 4 threads was witnessed by me and a few others..... just cos you missed them means nothing..... the one thread advice for ian is for easier management of his songs, easier management of pro and neg opinions and a gathering point for his admirers..... its simple common sense..... if you want to manage something, you provide a space for it.....

did I say there was no place for ians singing, if so, please copy and paste my statement about that.... otherwise... GET YA FACTS RIGHT

if you wanna watch ian sing... thats fine..... ian can sing on cam for you.... but there are others that do not, they wanna talk about other things..... so we all have to make room in the forum....

I am a bisexual, and I have interests in wicca, gaming, rpgs, dvd, music, martial arts, web design and many others.... and since they are a part of me and more than just sexual... I am entitled to post in the site about them..... but I am not gonna dedicate a single thread to every time I watch a single dvd or listen to one song...... I will create one thread and share my interest in music and movies and let others share in the thread......

so ians remark about wanting to share his other interests is valid...... but your rush into the thread and the chooping up of my post and your totall misunderstanding of what I was saying.... is something you have a habit of doing..... I have mentioned it to you in the past.....

so I would put it in simple terms, IAN, keep singing, one thread.... canticle, get it right or BUTT OUT

[Canticle]

''ian was not sure about what carabet singing was.. so i explained it, I was not talking about what I think of his singing.....so you definately screwed up there.....''

No, No....I don't think that I definitely screwed up. Not one bit. Ian appears to me, to be an intelligent person and I am sure he knows what cabaret is. Maybe his idea of cabaret, is slightly different from your own. I guess it depends upon the venue. I live in a village and we have a highly respected (nationwide), Blues Club and loving Blues, I really should go and see the acts. What puts me off, is the venue....our local village club (once called the working men's club). I'm really not into places like pubs and clubs, where there are lots of people and alcohol is imbibed......but gee, I am missing a lot of good Blues.

''I also was refering to the way that different people post their views on the same topics.....so that is why we see the multiple threads on the same issues...... and ian is one bisexual posting multiple threads about his singing... so there is a difference''

Yes....somehow I thought there would have to be a difference.

''the 4 threads was witnessed by me and a few others..... just cos you missed them means nothing.....''

Well....I reckon me missing seeing the four threads, is as relevant as you and others actually seeing them. If I had seen four threads on the main page and all belonging to Ian, I reckon I would have been thinking, that one thread would be a better idea and I would probably have suggested such a thing and maybe in a pm to Ian. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism.

''the one thread advice for ian is for easier management of his songs, easier management of pro and neg opinions and a gathering point for his admirers..... its simple common sense..... if you want to manage something, you provide a space for it.....''

That is quite true....It's a good idea.

''did I say there was no place for ians singing, if so, please copy and paste my statement about that.... otherwise... GET YA FACTS RIGHT''

I really do not believe, that I said you had made any such statement. Your post came across....to me...as not being terribly keen on the idea of Ian (or maybe anyone), sharing with the rest of the site...a talent and one to give pleasure.

I asked you a question and that is very different from saying you had stated anything. The question was a valid one and put politely. Your post, did not come across as polite....well, not to me.

''if you wanna watch ian sing... thats fine..... ian can sing on cam for you.... but there are others that do not, they wanna talk about other things..... so we all have to make room in the forum....''

I look at the many, many, many threads upon the site, the subject matter etc.... and a few threads, posted by Ian, are causing problems??? No, I don't think so, because people who were not interested, will have ignored them.

A suggestion has been made, to Ian, that one thread might be a good idea. It is..and I am sure (as I have already stated), that he will do something along these lines.

So why should anyone feel the need, to get too bothered about a few, very recent, multiple postings, out of so many dozens? I would say....no one.

''I am a bisexual, and I have interests in wicca, gaming, rpgs, dvd, music, martial arts, web design and many others.... and since they are a part of me and more than just sexual... I am entitled to post in the site about them..... but I am not gonna dedicate a single thread to every time I watch a single dvd or listen to one song...... I will create one thread and share my interest in music and movies and let others share in the thread......''

That's good....it would allow others, to see another facet of your character and creating one thread, to begin with, would show how you that thought things through, before posting the thread. Perhaps the idea had just never occurred, to Ian. Well....it will....now.

''so ians remark about wanting to share his other interests is valid...... but your rush into the thread and the chooping up of my post and your totall misunderstanding of what I was saying.... is something you have a habit of doing..... I have mentioned it to you in the past.....''

I didn't rush into the thread. I answer posts my way and I do not think that I misunderstood you. Your post, as can clearly be seen, was a 'Canticle would' say, think, or do that, kind of post. You assumed, that you knew my feelings about certain things, when you do not.

I do not have a habit of misunderstanding posts, or..in general, the words of others and just because you state, that you have mentioned such a thing, in the past, does not make you correct.

You get things wrong sometimes, LDD, very wrong.....but then we all make mistakes. Certainly, your assessment of me and my character is totally wrong.

''so I would put it in simple terms,''

Simple is always good.

''IAN, keep singing, one thread....''

Which is good advice and all that needed to be said. Just like it could be suggested to many other people.

''canticle, get it right or BUTT OUT''

Canticle, got it right. Canticle usually does get things right, for I have a great capacity to understand and I can discuss a variety of subjects and I also know how people work. I don't need to butt out of anything, because I have not entered anything, nor have I mis-understood.

Ian, luv...when you're feeling better, you put that thread together, making sure you add on to it, the present links (unless you re-record them), and any others you wish to share. I know, just by listening to you, that the recordings do not do your voice justice. I can tell, that you actually have a far better singing voice, than comes across.....you do well with the equipment, you have.

[DuckiesDarling]

I have no idea what Cabaret singing is, or what she meant. I didn't think I was so bad as to be called off off off broadway. :(


Canticle, There in black and white is what Ian said, so yes LDD is correct.


Honestly, Ian, your equipment might not be the best in the world but neither is your voice. There are people I would pay to listen to and people I would pay to shut up, you fall in between but slightly more towards the pay to listen to on SOME of the songs you do.

What I meant was you are like the floor show that warms up before the big act people pay to see comes out. When you ask for criticism and it's granted you can't take it. You accuse everyone of playing favorites and can't see anything but black and white when there are many, many shades of grey.

So yes, do ONE thread and make everyone happy.

[Canticle]

''Canticle,''

Yep, that's my name

''There in black and white is what Ian said,''

Did he? In what way? Are you meaning, because his poll didn't have a third choice? if so, I guess Ian just didn't it necessary.....and polls are never accurate....politicians find that out, to their cost.

''so yes LDD is correct.''

No, LDD is not right and that is my opinion. Your opinion is unique to you. Maybe no one is right and no one is wrong, about so many subjects.

''Honestly, Ian, your equipment might not be the best in the world but neither is your voice. There are people I would pay to listen to and people I would pay to shut up, you fall in between but slightly more towards the pay to listen to on SOME of the songs you do.''

Ian has a trained boice and is a baritone. He has been experimenting, with singing in different styles and he did say, in one of his threads, that he wasn't sure how things would turn out. He does have a good voice and this is very obvious. He may not have the right kind of voice, for some of the songs he has chosen, but experimentation is good and I think that he has been very brave to share this, with those who of us, are interested in listening.

I sing, but unlike Ian, I do not have the voice training, which allows greater control over breathing etc. I wish I did. The first person I sang for, outside my own family, was cam to cam and so shy was I, I covered up my cam, whilst I sang. Now, I will sing, on cam and know that many people can see me. As long as I cannot see them, I'm OK. I get asked to sing, so they must think my voice OK. I hate to think what it must be like for a professional performer, going out on stage. I've had some people say to me...''So, you do karaoke?''...and I have to say ''No, I sing, unaccompanied''.....and let me tell you...singing unaccompanied, is quite a challenge.

I'm sure Ian, singing without the SingSnap music, would be an even more interesting listen. Something to think about, Ian!!!

''What I meant was you are like the floor show that warms up before the big act people pay to see comes out.''

Wow....that is hitting below the belt, but freedom of expression and thought, says you have the right to make such comments.

''When you ask for criticism and it's granted you can't take it.''

DD...there is criticism and there is criticism. Constructive criticism is always useful.....such as suggesting one thread, devoted to posting links. That is the only constructive criticism, which I have seen, coming from you and none from LDD.

''You accuse everyone of playing favorites and can't see anything but black and white when there are many, many shades of grey.''

I don't think that Ian accused ''everyone of playing favourites.'' He merely pointed out, in his way and in his opinion, what he was supposed to be disrupting, by the relatively few threads...in comparison to others....which he has opened.

As you are not inside Ian's head and do not know him (as, neither do I), you cannot say that he sees things. only in black and white and assume that he does not see the many shades of grey. That is just assuming, far too much.

''So yes, do ONE thread and make everyone happy.''

I hope Ian does create one thread and makes those who wish to listen to him and pass on constructive criticism.......happy.

I am wondering who the ''everyone,'' are? Seems that on this thread, the only negative responses have come from you and LDD, but with freedom of speech, you have the right to state what you think, as do others.

You say you have 'perfect pitch,' DD and yet, say you cannot sing. I was wondering in what form this perfect pitch showed itself. Do you by some chance, play a musical instrument? Wikipedia has an interesting piece on absolute or perfect pitch.

''Absolute pitch (AP), widely referred to as perfect pitch, is the ability of a person to identify or re-create a given musical note without the benefit of an external reference''

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch

[DuckiesDarling]

Canticle, do not respond to me. Most of that post was directed to Ian, only the opening part where I quoted Ian's questioning what caberet meant was to you because you blatantly accused LDD of making it up. I stated he was correct that Ian did question what caberet meant.

Now please do us all the favor of shutting the hell up when you have to go and multiquote people and leave Ian to defend Ian. Good day, back to fucking ignore you go, not sure why I took you off in the first place.

[Canticle]

Canticle, do not respond to me. Most of that post was directed to Ian, only the opening part where I quoted Ian's questioning what caberet meant was to you because you blatantly accused LDD of making it up. I stated he was correct that Ian did question what caberet meant.

Now please do us all the favor of shutting the hell up when you have to go and multiquote people and leave Ian to defend Ian. Good day, back to fucking ignore you go, not sure why I took you off in the first place.

No, DD, the post was made to you. I didn't accuse LDD of making anything up. I said to you that I thought he was incorrect. I really do not know where you get some of your ideas from...about what people have meant, when they post something. I know exactly what Ian posted, exactly what you posted and exactly what LDD posted. How I interpret what a person means, can only be, how I interpret it.

Do you enjoy being rude and flaming people? Because it seems very much to me, that this is what you are trying to do. Please tell me...who are the ''us all'' that I should do a favour to, by ''shutting the hell up''....when people not interested in the thread, will not be reading it.

I have told you, LDD and others, that I will answer posts, the way I want, my way. I will not be told how to do so. I will also remain polite and not resort to using foul language and angry words. I've made that mistake (posting when angry), in the past and I do try to stay calm, cool and collected, when I type a post. Indeed, I always am. Once again, you make things personal, very personal. I really cannot understand why you feel the need to do so.

And another thing you are mistaken about. I was not defending Ian. I am sure that he is more than capable of doing that, himself. I was making a point, or several points, to say that I thought you incorrect...maybe a little unfair and perhaps not very kind, with your words to Ian.. I also told you that the idea of one thread...was a good one...but it appears that whatever one says...it can never be right...agreeing with you, even about a small matter, appears to fall upon stoney ground.

Serious threads, humorous threads, threads un-earthed from the archives and once more turned into something current, threads full of trivia etc, etc, etc....are posted all the time.....yet, a handful (not counted them), of threads posted by one person, with the subject matter being available for those who wish to listen to it, are castigated, as somewhat disruptive. That makes no sense.

You really don't need to announce that you are returning me to ''on ignore''....who needs to know? I know who I have on ignore, but I ain't gonna broadcast it.

Have a good evening.

[Long Duck Dong]

and how you interperted it, was clearly wrong..... I was not judging ians singing, I was defining cabaret for ian....... in a post to ian.... and its strange how you disect it and tell me I was wrong about ians singing style, when I never mentioned it......

so all i can assume, is that you are interperting what ian is saying too, and telling him he is incorrect when he says he doesn't know about cabaret, and that in fact in your eyes, he has a different understanding of something he doesn't know about

btw the majority of the people that answered the poll are telling ian to shut up... and that makes it a lil hard on ian now.... as he said he will respect the results.... so if he continues to post his songs, he makes a liar out of himself.... and if he stops, it will be seen as people infringing on freedom of expression within the site.......

btw, canticle, since this post was actually directed at you, you do not have to be ians mouth piece and also misread my remarks.... so feel free to slice and dice with your quoting and misreading..... as in future, if I have anything to say to ian, I will say it to ian by PM, so ian can reply with his thoughts and feelings.... instead of his self appointed mouthpiece....

[IanBorthwick]

No offense to anyone, but I need no one to defend me. Canty has the right to speak her mind and it is HER mind she speaks. However, as many of us do feel, we feel we do not have the right to speak as we feel.

In Five, nearly six years time, being a part of this site I have not ever felt truly supported, truly understood, or in any way shape or form a part of this "community".

I logged in to see subject matter that, to me, seems....stupid. And this is supposed to help me define myself as a bisexual. How long does it have to be, do women like it cut or uncut, do men like foreskin or not, how gay are you, what do you think about X, and more.These subjects are amusing for the first perhaps 5 days, then after that I was left with this shocking sensation that I was not a part of this community because I think all the sexual stuff is not that damn big a part of ones life. What was important was acceptance, understanding on a societal and emotional, perhaps spiritual level. I've gotten it from a choice, precious, special few here.

And then I look at my ignore list...

The list is amazingly big as I have had to shut down one troll after another that targeted me for exceptional punishment because I am also polyamorous. And even persons who are supposedly FOR protecting persons like myself were not above making tasteless misandronystic jokes. Do I spend time here making misogynist jokes and asking how people like them? No. Did they? Yes, and asked for feedback. Then when they were told, by me, they were VERY not funny and I found insulting on a personal level they exploded in my face.

This is something I like to term,"You may not take the liberties I have accorded myself."

I know all people have the capacity to do this and they may not realize it, but to the extent many DO here I find disturbing. These Prima Donnas and Il Divo are in a self appointed elite they brook no one approach and this makes the site ripe for inner turmoil...like this.

How dare Ian do anything not exactly to some forum dictate beyond written word and understood to all by implied consent? That's how I felt, it's how I feel, it's how this FORUM feels and has so for many years.

Telling who it is or when is useless as the combat would ensue to make all the other combat against the trolls and all the screams for Drew's intervention to look like a dust-up between school children.

Each time I simply slipped away and checked only now and again to see if perhaps the negative feel was gone, perhaps the more jovial elements were in force or in greater number. I test the waters and then slip away again when things got ugly. I even said I would stand my ground once and that got me pm bombed by people who wanted to tell me how to be a good little bisexual.

My idea of being bisexual don't stop at my bel-tline, it stops at my heart and my brain-line. As the Bard once wrote:

"Love looks not with the eyes, but with the mind; And therefore is winged Cupid painted blind."

Silly me, I thought being bisexual was the epitome of this one...beautiful...perfect...expression of love. We see not with eyes but with the mind, and the heart, and the soul. Regardless of gender we find love where ever it comes from. These posts on sex, screwing, gang bangs, fetishes...it's all interesting to a degree, but what about AFTER it. You've made love, you love the one you're with...what do you do? Stare blankly at a wall until you can "rise to the occasion" once more? Wait til you catch your breathe and leap into the fray immediately?

Is there no romance? No song, no dancing, no poetry? Are you telling me that? Because the very implication here, to me, is that is EXACTLY it.

Or is it I that it's ok from certain persons and not others? Because it feels that way also. Look at my post count and when I joined...and add 100 more posts and and another name when I was here with someone I cared about before the site and those on it at the time drove them away.

Now I don't care what the majority vote, I will honor what I said. I'm a man of my word and I do stand by it and will NOT go back on it. As for those who want to infringe on my rights, I personally don't care. Those are the same people who want to curtail freedoms in the name of safety and do so for selfish reasons, deserving no profit from their cowardice. It's not MY place to teach them consequence and conscience, that's a job for a grandparent.

[Canticle]

''and how you interperted it, was clearly wrong..... I was not judging ians singing, I was defining cabaret for ian....... in a post to ian.... and its strange how you disect it and tell me I was wrong about ians singing style, when I never mentioned it......''

You know something LDD, I actually believe that you enjoy all this, I really do. This post doesn't really deserve a reply, as far as I am concerned, but it will get one, nevertheless.

I disagree...I do not think that I interpreted anything, incorrectly. I never said that you were judging Ian's singing, so please do not try to infer that I was. I don't think Ian needs ''cabaret'' defined for him. I do believe that he has his own ideas about what true cabaret it. I am sure he would tell you, if you were to ask him.

''cabaret singing is like small cafe singing.... think beer halls and places like that..... lounge singers and entertainers....''

I think that Ian's voice has been trained a little beyond what you mention here.

Is this where you think I was saying, that you thought there was something amiss with Ian's singing style. If so (for I cannot find anything else), then you are the one with the misunderstanding and misinterpretation.

Certainly, when I think of cabaret, it is is something very up-market and takes place at high class venues and includes revue. We all have our own ideas of what the word could be describing....entertainment-wise

''so all i can assume, is that you are interperting what ian is saying too, and telling him he is incorrect when he says he doesn't know about cabaret, and that in fact in your eyes, he has a different understanding of something he doesn't know about''

You shouldn't assume LDD. I understood exactly where Ian was coming from.

''btw the majority of the people that answered the poll are telling ian to shut up... and that makes it a lil hard on ian now.... as he said he will respect the results.... so if he continues to post his songs, he makes a liar out of himself.... and if he stops, it will be seen as people infringing on freedom of expression within the site.......''

Polls mean nothing at all. They cannot be seen as a true reflection of what every active member of the site will think. Less than 70 people voting is not many, when compared to how many active members there are. He can't really shut up, when one would have to click on a link to hear him sing...and telling someone to 'shut up,' is not terribly polite. I like to think that these were not the words going through the mind of those who voted in opposition.

Yes, Ian is damned if he do and damned if he don't. As the voting is virtually neck to neck, I don't think that time has yet come.

''btw, canticle, since this post was actually directed at you, you do not have to be ians mouth piece and also misread my remarks.... so feel free to slice and dice with your quoting and misreading..... as in future, if I have anything to say to ian, I will say it to ian by PM, so ian can reply with his thoughts and feelings.... instead of his self appointed mouthpiece..''

I am not Ian's mouthpiece! Ask him that, yourself, if you want confirmation. I have enjoyed his singing and in listening to him, I can understand the technical limitations he has and realise that his voice is far better than the recordings allow.

You'll be pleased to see that I have answered your post, my way. I don't misread...and I don't misinterpret. Ian has already made some comments here. He isn't feeling well, so maybe he hasn't felt like staying around long enough to post anything else. He is well able to speak for himself. Like I have already said, your comments and DD's have been the only negative ones. The other comments have been far more positive and made very good suggestions about having a single thread. I'm not Ian's self appointed mouthpiece......You've got that wrong...very wrong.

[Long Duck Dong]

ian..... did it really matter what others thought..... making the poll, empowered people to decide your actions for you......

ian i put it to you.... you are a man of your word.... but many musicians would never be heard if they didn't sing for the world..... so if you are gonna honour the poll and stop posting your singing in the site, then provide a link for people that want to hear your voice and possibly get involved more.....

it can be argued ( and it is, by canticle ) that 70 people do not make up the site.... but its you that gave away the power to 70 people by stating your intentions and then stating you would stand by the results of the poll.....

drew gave you the right and the power to post your songs.... you gave that power away with the poll...... but for crying out loud, in a sex and sexuality site, you are getting upset cos people want to talk about sex and sexuality and not your singing ???????

if it was me, i would create a bloody site, that is not popularity controled like snapshot.com, and not about something far removed from singing, like bisexual.com...... and I would not lay fault with my equipment nor would i bemoan the fact that people are talking about sex in a sexuality site.....
I would merely create a site that is suited to my needs and link people to it, using one thread in this site......

bisexuality is merely attraction.... people want it to be so much more.... yet heterosexuality is merely attraction, and so many are content with it...... and that is why i say to people, are you a bisexual person or a person that is bisexual.....

[Long Duck Dong]

''and how you interperted it, was clearly wrong..... I was not judging ians singing, I was defining cabaret for ian....... in a post to ian.... and its strange how you disect it and tell me I was wrong about ians singing style, when I never mentioned it......''

You know something LDD, I actually believe that you enjoy all this, I really do. This post doesn't really deserve a reply, as far as I am concerned, but it will get one, nevertheless.

I disagree...I do not think that I interpreted anything, incorrectly. I never said that you were judging Ian's singing, so please do not try to infer that I was. I don't think Ian needs ''cabaret'' defined for him. I do believe that he has his own ideas about what true cabaret it. I am sure he would tell you, if you were to ask him.

''cabaret singing is like small cafe singing.... think beer halls and places like that..... lounge singers and entertainers....''

I think that Ian's voice has been trained a little beyond what you mention here.

Is this where you think I was saying, that you thought there was something amiss with Ian's singing style. If so (for I cannot find anything else), then you are the one with the misunderstanding and misinterpretation.

Certainly, when I think of cabaret, it is is something very up-market and takes place at high class venues and includes revue. We all have our own ideas of what the word could be describing....entertainment-wise

''so all i can assume, is that you are interperting what ian is saying too, and telling him he is incorrect when he says he doesn't know about cabaret, and that in fact in your eyes, he has a different understanding of something he doesn't know about''

You shouldn't assume LDD. I understood exactly where Ian was coming from.

''btw the majority of the people that answered the poll are telling ian to shut up... and that makes it a lil hard on ian now.... as he said he will respect the results.... so if he continues to post his songs, he makes a liar out of himself.... and if he stops, it will be seen as people infringing on freedom of expression within the site.......''

Polls mean nothing at all. They cannot be seen as a true reflection of what every active member of the site will think. Less than 70 people voting is not many, when compared to how many active members there are. He can't really shut up, when one would have to click on a link to hear him sing...and telling someone to 'shut up,' is not terribly polite. I like to think that these were not the words going through the mind of those who voted in opposition.

Yes, Ian is damned if he do and damned if he don't. As the voting is virtually neck to neck, I don't think that time has yet come.

''btw, canticle, since this post was actually directed at you, you do not have to be ians mouth piece and also misread my remarks.... so feel free to slice and dice with your quoting and misreading..... as in future, if I have anything to say to ian, I will say it to ian by PM, so ian can reply with his thoughts and feelings.... instead of his self appointed mouthpiece..''

I am not Ian's mouthpiece! Ask him that, yourself, if you want confirmation. I have enjoyed his singing and in listening to him, I can understand the technical limitations he has and realise that his voice is far better than the recordings allow.

You'll be pleased to see that I have answered your post, my way. I don't misread...and I don't misinterpret. Ian has already made some comments here. He isn't feeling well, so maybe he hasn't felt like staying around long enough to post anything else. He is well able to speak for himself. Like I have already said, your comments and DD's have been the only negative ones. The other comments have been far more positive and made very good suggestions about having a single thread. I'm not Ian's self appointed mouthpiece......You've got that wrong...very wrong.

stop gobbling on like a old turkey will you......

I have never said anything about ians singing ability.... cos, * shock horror * I have never listened to any of his singing, so I could not have made any judgement about his singing......

so all your waffling about styles of music and ians voice, is falling on deaf ears......

now how can I be negative about ians singing, when A ) I have never listened to it, and B), I am encouraging a persons singing that I have never listened to, to continue and offering advice and encouragement to him.....

now the next time you tell me that I am incorrect, bear in mind, that you have proven yet again.... that the voices in your head are confusing you into thinking that you actually know what you are talking about.....

so again, I defined cabaret singing for ian, I never made any judgement about his singing.... you are the one doing that.... then telling me I am wrong for my judgement that I never made

[IanBorthwick]

ian..... did it really matter what others thought..... making the poll, empowered people to decide your actions for you......

Or is it? No, what I actually did was find out how many liked me here. You're a cup half empty kind of guy I am guessing. My words were made to polarize the people and let me see who would rebuke and who would like me.

Those who like my singing already have the website address to my list of songs. As it grows they may listen as they choose. 70 people do not a site make, nor iron bars a cage. But I said what I meant in order to obtain a result, one I was happy with let me tell you.

I gave nothing away that people did not already use their right not to be a part of or hear. If they want, and the poll slips the other way, I will ask Drew to lock it and then I will post my thread. Until then I must honor my word as it was given so others will not say I am craven and apt to go back on it. It was a device to make me able to see clearly what the site is like, a sounding if you will, or more crudely a dipstick test to see what is going on still.

f it was me, i would create a bloody site, that is not popularity controled like snapshot.com, and not about something far removed from singing, like bisexual.com...... and I would not lay fault with my equipment nor would i bemoan the fact that people are talking about sex in a sexuality site.....
I would merely create a site that is suited to my needs and link people to it, using one thread in this site......

Why is Bisexual.com far removed from singing? Were not famous people who sang Bisexual? Janice Joplin to name a most famous case? Why is it sex, and less our sexuality as people? WHo is bemoaning? I am stating a fact, the site is not the best and my equipment is cheap. You mean if I were stuck in a mini that can go half the speed limit, I cannot point that out without being told I am moaning? Strange interpretation, goes back to the Half Empty thing.

As I recall there are links to interviews with people who were activists...singers...medical care givers. By the way you are mentioning things to me, they are to be seen as out of place as well? And talking sex in a sexuality site....Most of what I see is hardly discussing sex, more like trying to get a thrill rather than really know something. And that's MY opinion, and it's once again not going to be ALL there is about being bisexual.

I don't want my sexuality to be "So much More" as you put it. And that's why I am making sure that there is more to be seen of ME than my sexuality so once again I am confused because what you are saying first turns one way and then another. The whole point of me singing is to make that very statement. There is so much more to me than being attracted to men and women, and yes I am bisexual. There is so much more to love than Coitus, there is so much more to romance than stars.

The entire metaphor I created with this music was that.

That and the fact I am trying to learn more than trained music, like crooning and putting sultry sounds to my voice,etc. Things I never learned when I was profession trained. I can name drop and make long explanations as to how I was trained and whom I was trained with, what I learned, how long I trained, etc. In the end, I wanted to go beyond that and, god willing, paint a larger picture of what is acceptable here.

There were bisexual writers(Hans Christian Anderson) and bisexual athletes(Orlando Jordan), and bisexual physicists(John Nash) and so much more. Why is it not acceptable to see their handiwork? Or those of the people who come here and do such things? There were poetry threads once here...lost now.

I wanted to counter that loss. To immerse ourselves in only things sexual as though it was all we are seems a giant waste of potential for the board.

[Long Duck Dong]

I was refering to the remarks like you made about the cut or uncut, do you like pussy or cock threads...and how it gets old fast and how you want to be seen as more than a sexual person.....

the fact of the matter is its a sexuality site, people come here for sexuality and sex........ that is their interest and reason for being here..... the fact that you do not feel that way and feel that you should have the right to express yourself and protray yourself as more than just a sexual person.... is a personal aspect.... not a site one....

its the reason people do blogs and web pages, ...to express themselves freely with their own control and domain....

now you mention a number of names of famous people.... and they are known for things other than their sexuality.... and its got everything to do with the fact that they never made their sexuality the focal point of their lives, it remained a bedroom issue......
yet what they did with their lives, stands out..... and so my advice to you.... create a site that is not about sexuality and make your stance there if you want to be seen as more than bisexual.....

or... you can continue to skulk around bisexual.com bemoaning the fact that you are not being seen as more than a sex object..... and end up looking like the fully naked guy standing at a mass orgy, wondering why nobody is talking to him about the ball game last weekend......

you become more than a sex object, when you take the emphasis off your sexuality..... think about it..... its simple logic

[Canticle]

Post #31 LDD
You are correct in this. It was Ian’s decision to post a thread, with a poll attached and it was a mistake. Polls are notorious, for NOT showing what people really think and the poll, which is upon this thread, has the Yes and No contingents, so very close, as to warrant the exercise as rather a pointless one. However, it was Ian’s choice to begin the thread and make a certain statement and I am sure that he will be honourable enough to stick to his word.

‘’drew gave you the right and the power to post your songs.... you gave that power away with the poll......’’

All correct

[B][B]‘’ but for crying out loud, in a sex and sexuality site, you are getting upset cos people want to talk about sex and sexuality and not your singing ???????’’

The only negative comments upon this thread have come from just two people. All other comments were either supportive, or offered constructive criticism.

The fourth paragraph, I can’t comment upon, It appears very muddled to me.

‘’bisexuality is merely attraction.... people want it to be so much more.... yet heterosexuality is merely attraction, and so many are content with it...... and that is why i say to people, are you a bisexual person or a person that is bisexual.....’’

I thought sexuality, went far deeper than ‘’merely’’ attraction? One can jostle the words around, as much as one likes, but if your question is asked, it will mean different things to different people and you would be sure to receive, a myriad of replies....each as meaningful, as the one before.

Isn’t being a human being the most important thing, no matter what one’s sexuality?

By the way, I do know that your post was aimed at Ian....but this being a public forum, views are bound to be put forward, but feel free to chastise me.

[Canticle]

''stop gobbling on like a old turkey will you......''

More insults! I guess it is OK, in your thinking, for you to make posts which may ramble, or go off at a tangent, but not posts made by others. Not that I have rambled, or gone off at a tangent. I have remained polite and not resorted to any bad language.

By the way, I never ''gobble,'' I speak, clearly and in such a manner, that I am easily understood. And I am certainly no ''old turkey.''

''I have never said anything about ians singing ability.... cos, * shock horror * I have never listened to any of his singing, so I could not have made any judgement about his singing......''

I have never said that you were criticising Ian's actual singing. I have commented upon your negativity.

''so all your waffling about styles of music and ians voice, is falling on deaf ears......''

I don't waffle. I merely express myself, my way and with words which are mine and not borrowed from anyone. In the same way as I am no spokesperson for anyone.

''now how can I be negative about ians singing, when A ) I have never listened to it, and B), I am encouraging a persons singing that I have never listened to, to continue and offering advice and encouragement to him.....''

I think it is you who has misread, misunderstood and misinterpreted my words. I was commenting upon your general negativity and how only two people posting upon the thread, had very negative remarks.

''now the next time you tell me that I am incorrect, bear in mind, that you have proven yet again.... that the voices in your head are confusing you into thinking that you actually know what you are talking about.....''

More insults. You really do like dishing them out. I know exactly what I am talking about. Would you please tell me what ''the voices in your head,'' remark is supposed to mean!!!!! I don't have voices in my head...apart from my own thoughts and I am not confused about anything.

I call this and other remarks, you often make, what you would call flaming. However, in your mindset, it seems to be perfectly OK, for you, to make incredibly rude and insulting remarks, to people, even if done in an extremely subtle manner.

''so again, I defined cabaret singing for ian, I never made any judgement about his singing.... you are the one doing that.... then telling me I am wrong for my judgement that I never made''

Correct, you defined Cabaret, in your terms, how you think of Cabaret. You mentioned ''beer halls,'' as well as other venues. If this is what you think of as true Cabaret, so be it. I think many people would use the word Cabaret and think of far more upmarket venues.

I have already told you and more than twice, that I have never said that you criticised Ian's singing. I was commenting on your negativity and replying to your remarks as posted by you. If you remember, many of your words have been to take pot shots at me. How sad.

I am beginning to think that you thrive on this form of discord, LDD. I will remain polite, but I will air my views and I will air them in my fashion, not how some would, perhaps, prefer to see them aired.

[csrakate]

MY God, will you two please give it a rest????? Think I'm gonna post a new poll:

LDD's and Canticle's pissing matches...

Do you:

A. love watching so much that you orgasm over the angry, verbose exchanges?

B. want them to start their own thread and call it an all out war?

C. wish to hell they would STOP!!!!????

BTW...I VOTE C!!!

Seriously, for the sake of all that is sane....STOP!

[by~his~side]

Right on Kate!
I vote #C as well.

Count me in for the hero worship as well as far as Ian's talent goes.
I've even had the honor of having a personal serenade sent to my inbox.
And to put it bluntly..he's amazing. Crappy equipment and all.

~D~

[rissababynta]

Here's an idea! Ian, post what you want...Canticle, stop causing problems. YAAAAY...problem solved.

[Canticle]

Ian

There will be many people, who will understand, just what you were trying to do and that is, share something with others, who were interested enough and wanted to listen to your singing. There is a place for such threads, upon the site, as many people will appreciate. People sing, 'dance', write, tell jokes, find humorous, happy, or sad items to share, either from their own life, or from the net, etc, etc. All is good and enriches lives. Sometimes, we find ourselves disappointed, because we thought that something would be accepted more readily and not in a negative manner, or we find that individuals will disillusion us. Your voice remains, whatever anyone may say about it and it is a good voice. You are experimenting, trying new things out and you just wanted to share that. Thank you.

Post #34 LDD

Boy oh boy, I do find you so contradictary! But, heh, that's life.

''the fact of the matter is its a sexuality site, people come here for sexuality and sex........ that is their interest and reason for being here..... the fact that you do not feel that way and feel that you should have the right to express yourself and protray yourself as more than just a sexual person.... is a personal aspect.... not a site one....''

And there was I, thinking that sexuality was far more than just an ''interest''....

Aren't we all...each and everyone of us upon the planet, whatever our sexuality, far more than just sexual beings. in the same way every race is far more than the colour of skin and every belief system far more than the hierarchy of individual religions???

We are all born, we all live, suffer, are happy, sad, create, destroy, love and some, sadly, hate..we all at sometime, take ill...and we all die. Yet, inbetween that birth and death, we all breath the same air, are warmed by the same sun, our nights lit by the same moon, we wonder at the same stars, we all cry, laugh, bleed red blood and weep salty tears. We all..have some sort of talent...artistic, linguistic, practical, etc etc.

This site is what it is, because of ''individuals''.....and that is what makes it so interesting. I feel privileged to have chatted with some of these individuals and have been enriched by many of the conversations, I have had.

[Canticle]

MY God, will you two please give it a rest????? Think I'm gonna post a new poll:

LDD's and Canticle's pissing matches...

Do you:

A. love watching so much that you orgasm over the angry, verbose exchanges?

B. want them to start their own thread and call it an all out war?

C. wish to hell they would STOP!!!!????

BTW...I VOTE C!!!

Seriously, for the sake of all that is sane....STOP!

Kate.....guess what?.....I am never angry when I post. I gave that up a long time ago. However, I will reply to posts....and I will remain polite and not resort to insults or bad language. Maybe you would like to take others to task, when they do such things.

I would vote either

D. this is a site with threads and subjects where mayd agree or disagree and so long as people do not use foul language, or insult, all power to the...

or

E. One does not have to read the thread, if one does not wish to.

Seems, Kate, that you made the decision, to read this thread. :rolleyes:

By the way...I am incredibly sane. Perhaps life would be far more easy, if one wasn't so sane.

[Canticle]

Here's an idea! Ian, post what you want...Canticle, stop causing problems. YAAAAY...problem solved.

Not me who causes problems. I am not negative in my views. Gee, am I not supposed to reply to certain people. Sheesh!

[tenni]

Hi Ian
I read your OP and there is a lot in it. I'd like to vote outside the options that you gave to vote for.

First, let me write that I'm an exhibiting working (professional) experimental visual artist. You mention that you are uncertain if you are "bothering" people with your threads about your singing. I'm not bothered by the number of threads but nor inclined to comment on your thread. It isn't my type of music but I have clicked on the thread connection a couple of times. For me, your threads do not really offer much to contribute to or respond to.

If you are looking for admiration, then that is what your threads seem to be about. "Do you like my latest song?" That seems to be a bit amatuerish and needy. Funny, when I exhibit, I'm looking for public reaction as well but not just ...do you like it. ( I do get paid though...not enough but no artist gets paid enough...trust me my books show that) I really am not sure why I put my art out in public but it sometimes has to do with a socio political issue that I'm trying to bring to the public's attention. Lately, my art practice has moved a bit away from that and it has become more about my creative use of media. It still has a sociological message though. I'm trying to engage the public and "get attention" from my peers..and art critics...etc...lol. When I get good feedback about my actual "art" and it is positive, I have to force myself to say "thanks". (just my personality and surprise that person X that I know is important or has art power actually like my freak'n work...lol..shock I guess) However, when someone tells me about their reaction or what they relate it to, then I'm intrigued whether they are on the "money" or not. When someone has the balls to actually get negative, it is interesting. I must admit that I got a public entry last year that was harsh. The curator ran over to explain it and the guy who wrote it. I found it hilarious as his criticism was so far out there. If you were professionally trained then you are use to a crit but we are not professional music teachers. So, what is your reason for posting other than "do you like it?" We know now that you have this talent.

I vote for having a bit more context to your thread. ie. Ask us to compare two of your songs that you see as well done. Give us a reason to respond to your work. Or, just keep posting new songs but yes in one or two threads. Maybe, you see a genre of similarity and keep that as a thread. Just a suggestion.

btw Yes, please post the Robbie Williams' song. I like his voice and style...ok his bod or at least what he showed in a video a few years back...lol I don't recognize the title but that is not unusual for me...lol Hopefully, I recognize the song although I'm not all that familiar with all of his music. What intrigues you about that song that you want to record and post it? Are you a baritone or ? Isn't Williams a tenor or ?

[void()]

Re: Ian's Poll

Listened to some of your singing. It's not exactly my cup of tea. But please do continue to post it if you want. I'm not offended. Probably others do like your work. I do but it's just not 'something' enough for me, and can't pin down the 'something'.

Re: Csr's Poll

I vote C. Tiresome watching all the fire fighting. Normally just skip ahead on my chronological remote control. I see "You're wrong!" and "No, you're wrong!" Then, I get to the end and see both we're right & wrong. *sighs*
Well, back to enjoying a day off.

[Canticle]

Right on Kate!
I vote #C as well.

Count me in for the hero worship as well as far as Ian's talent goes.
I've even had the honor of having a personal serenade sent to my inbox.
And to put it bluntly..he's amazing. Crappy equipment and all.

~D~

Nah...Kate got it slightly wrong there...she needed a few more options;)....D or E are the way to go:rolleyes:

Ian does indeed have an excellent voice and he is very brave to experiment with other music genre, as he has. It can be very difficult for a highly trained singer, to sing anything other than what he/she has been trained to sing.

He should be applauded for his experimentation, if only by those people interested in listening to him. The negative remarks came from only two sources. Other comments, upon this thread and any others, have either offered constructive criticism. or compliments.

Those of us who want to hear Ian sing, know we can. Sad...to my way of thinking, that some can be so negative and need to resort to what I call insults and bad language. Trouble is...all that seems to go over the heads of many and the person not being negative, or rude, ends up as the one being told...not to cause problems. Unbelievable!!

[Canticle]

Hi Ian
I read your OP and there is a lot in it. I'd like to vote outside the options that you gave to vote for.

First, let me write that I'm an exhibiting working (professional) experimental visual artist. You mention that you are uncertain if you are "bothering" people with your threads about your singing. I'm not bothered by the number of threads but nor inclined to comment on your thread. It isn't my type of music but I have clicked on the thread connection a couple of times. For me, your threads do not really offer much to contribute to or respond to.

If you are looking for admiration, then that is what your threads seem to be about. "Do you like my latest song?" That seems to be a bit amatuerish and needy. Funny, when I exhibit, I'm looking for public reaction as well but not just ...do you like it. ( I do get paid though...not enough but no artist gets paid enough...trust me my books show that) I really am not sure why I put my art out in public but it sometimes has to do with a socio political issue that I'm trying to bring to the public's attention. Lately, my art practice has moved a bit away from that and it has become more about my creative use of media. It still has a sociological message though. I'm trying to engage the public and "get attention" from my peers..and art critics...etc...lol. When I get good feedback about my actual "art" and it is positive, I have to force myself to say "thanks". (just my personality) However, when someone tells me about their reaction or what they relate it to, then I'm intrigued whether they are on the "money" or not. When someone has the balls to actually get negative, it is interesting. I must admit that I got a public entry last year that was harsh. The curator ran over to explain it and the guy who wrote it. I found it hilarious as his criticism was so far out there. If you were professionally trained then you are use to a crit but we are not professional music teachers. So, what is your reason for posting other than "do you like it?" We know now that you have this talent.

I vote for having a bit more context to your thread. ie. Ask us to compare two of your songs that you see as well done. Give us a reason to respond to your work. Or, just keep posting new songs but yes in one or two threads. Maybe, you see a genre of similarity and keep that as a thread. Just a suggestion.

btw Yes, please post the Robbie Williams' song. I like his voice and style...ok his bod or at least what he showed in a video a few years back...lol I don't recognize the title but that is not unusual for me...lol Hopefully, I recognize the song although I'm not all that familiar with all of his music. What intrigues you about that song that you want to record and post it?

Nothing wrong with anything you say here tenni. Very intelligent response.

So you like Robbie Williams? ''Bodies'' is from his latest album and is an interesting choice by Ian. I know people who know Robbie. he is a local lad.

[Canticle]

Re: Ian's Poll

Listened to some of your singing. It's not exactly my cup of tea. But please do continue to post it if you want. I'm not offended. Probably others do like your work. I do but it's just not 'something' enough for me, and can't pin down the 'something'.

Re: Csr's Poll

I vote C. Tiresome watching all the fire fighting. Normally just skip ahead on my chronological remote control. I see "You're wrong!" and "No, you're wrong!" Then, I get to the end and see both we're right & wrong. *sighs*
Well, back to enjoying a day off.

I think it's more about sharing, than anything, Void.

Yeah, the negativity does become tiresome.....and gee...I am fool enough to rise to the bait, each time....but it's this part of me that always needs to defend...others...not me! One day, I will learn that the naysayers should just be ignored.

[rissababynta]

Not me who causes problems. I am not negative in my views. Gee, am I not supposed to reply to certain people. Sheesh!

Well, when you misunderstand someone and they explain why and how you misunderstood and you continue to push back with a long winded attitude...then yeah guess what...that's causing a problem.

[IanBorthwick]

Tenni, yes it is amateurish if I was doing it for more than seeing if I was successful at my endeavor..which was to entertain or make a good impression. We all seek recognition, but I am literally trying something I have NEVER done before on stage. I am going away from Mahler, Brahms and Mozart and singing modern pop, rough rock and other things that my voice was NEVER trained to do. I think I posted somewhere that my voice, no matter how hard I tried as a child, I was untrained from screaming. All the boys that were in the choir were trained thusly. We all have the same problem and if you don't believe we cannot do it listen to Lenny Kravitz. Lenny was n the choir with me, and you can look it up on his bio if you care to. California Boys' Choir.

I know I am no rock star and I am not comparing myself, what I am trying to do is learn to go beyond what we were taught and learn Broadway, Crooning, Rock, Ballads...this from a guy who sang the opening Second act of Tosca for Placido Domingo is aBIG thing. The difference between what I know and what I want to do is miles apart.

Oh and by the way, the ONE Robbie Wiliams song I sang was what he did for De-Lovely...called De-Lovely. He did it wonderfully and I tried to make it more my style than his. The timing subroutine on the program didn't work so well for that song so I come in slightly behind and I need to re-do it as well as make sure I sample a few and then make a better master mix.

Is it amateurish? Yes, I am an amateur at this type of singing and I readily admit it.

But I do love to sing so....

[Canticle]

Well, when you misunderstand someone and they explain why and how you misunderstood and you continue to push back with a long winded attitude...then yeah guess what...that's causing a problem.

Umm....no Rissa...I have to disagree, because I do not believe that I did misunderstand anyone. I have re-read the posts and I did not misunderstand or misinterpret. Does it not occur to you that the others posters, were misunderstanding etc....I am sure that it is possible that they can do so. Me...longwinded....lol...I think not...just expressing myself..my way. And how can that be causing a problem, if one does not decide to read the thread.

I notice that no one has said that snarky remarks, unnecessary bad language and what comes across as just plain rudeness...is wrong.....I wonder why?

[tenni]

Thanks Ian for your explanation. It was quite interesting to me. Funny, I wouldn't consider you "amateurish" from what you have written in the last post. I changed major media about five years ago. I brought my knowledge and experience with me. I could apply for emerging grants but I was a bit farther along that someone just out of school. It might be hard to change your "style" and technical aspects but I would suspect that you are ahead of an amateur...dunno...to each their own. Visual art may be different enough from music. Although I know that we use some of the same terms in analysing our work.

Have you considered my suggestion about asking us a question with your posting...ie two songs that you see as similar and what we think or prefer?

[Canticle]

Tenni, yes it is amateurish if I was doing it for more than seeing if I was successful at my endeavor..which was to entertain or make a good impression. We all seek recognition, but I am literally trying something I have NEVER done before on stage. I am going away from Mahler, Brahms and Mozart and singing modern pop, rough rock and other things that my voice was NEVER trained to do. I think I posted somewhere that my voice, no matter how hard I tried as a child, I was untrained from screaming. All the boys that were in the choir were trained thusly. We all have the same problem and if you don't believe we cannot do it listen to Lenny Kravitz. Lenny was n the choir with me, and you can look it up on his bio if you care to. California Boys' Choir.

I know I am no rock star and I am not comparing myself, what I am trying to do is learn to go beyond what we were taught and learn Broadway, Crooning, Rock, Ballads...this from a guy who sang the opening Second act of Tosca for Placido Domingo is aBIG thing. The difference between what I know and what I want to do is miles apart.

Oh and by the way, the ONE Robbie Wiliams song I sang was what he did for De-Lovely...called De-Lovely. He did it wonderfully and I tried to make it more my style than his. The timing subroutine on the program didn't work so well for that song so I come in slightly behind and I need to re-do it as well as make sure I sample a few and then make a better master mix.

Is it amateurish? Yes, I am an amateur at this type of singing and I readily admit it.

But I do love to sing so....

Seems simple enough to understand, from my point of view.

Regarding Robbie Williams and De-Lovely, you will no doubt remember, that I told you about his critics, not believing him capable of singing the songs of Sinatra etc, even though those singers were his bigggest influences and what he grew up, hearing. You will remember that I also told you that he proved his critics wrong.

Some people just think of him as a 'Pop' singer, when he is far more than that....and it is only in a couple of countries in the world, where he is not mega famous and has played gigs to up to 100,000 people and in total...millions of people...in Europe, Asia, South America and Australasia.

Not bad for a local lad...who had the sense to know he was far more talented that the other guys in the boy band, he was chosen for, aged 16. He is the greatest British male singer and entertainer of his generation and on stage, he is electrifying......a singer and entertainer...who hasn't forgotten where he comes from....not afraid to laugh at himself and play up to the stupid tabloid newspapers stories.

Heck...but I told you all that...lol

Experimentation with your singing and trying something you've never done before, stepping outside of the box and enjoying that artistic endeavour, whether one is good at it, or makes a pig's ear of it, is fun. I don't understand why some people, couldn't just listen to you sing an enjoy it, as many others have.

[DuckiesDarling]

Tenni, yes it is amateurish if I was doing it for more than seeing if I was successful at my endeavor..which was to entertain or make a good impression. We all seek recognition, but I am literally trying something I have NEVER done before on stage. I am going away from Mahler, Brahms and Mozart and singing modern pop, rough rock and other things that my voice was NEVER trained to do. I think I posted somewhere that my voice, no matter how hard I tried as a child, I was untrained from screaming. All the boys that were in the choir were trained thusly. We all have the same problem and if you don't believe we cannot do it listen to Lenny Kravitz. Lenny was n the choir with me, and you can look it up on his bio if you care to. California Boys' Choir.

I know I am no rock star and I am not comparing myself, what I am trying to do is learn to go beyond what we were taught and learn Broadway, Crooning, Rock, Ballads...this from a guy who sang the opening Second act of Tosca for Placido Domingo is aBIG thing. The difference between what I know and what I want to do is miles apart.

Oh and by the way, the ONE Robbie Wiliams song I sang was what he did for De-Lovely...called De-Lovely. He did it wonderfully and I tried to make it more my style than his. The timing subroutine on the program didn't work so well for that song so I come in slightly behind and I need to re-do it as well as make sure I sample a few and then make a better master mix.

Is it amateurish? Yes, I am an amateur at this type of singing and I readily admit it.

But I do love to sing so....

Ian, this explains to me why some of it just was basically not on. You are trying something outside your range and that's great but I did give my honest opinion. I did listen to everything you posted and I even signed up to singsnap to listen to a few you posted there that you haven't posted here. Some are very good, some are good, some are not so good. I wish you luck as you continue to expand your repertoire. Always do what you love cause if you don't love what you do then you betray yourself.

[Canticle]

Nice words DD

For others, one doesn't actually have to sign up to sing snap to hear other songs, but that is not a criticism, or a dig, DD. Just letting people know, who might be put off, by the the thought of signing up for the site.

[IanBorthwick]

Have you considered my suggestion about asking us a question with your posting...ie two songs that you see as similar and what we think or prefer?

Unless the polls change I am not posting more singing as I have stated. But if things magically slip back in my favor, lol, I'll definitely give it a try that way. However, as I am not that well versed in opposing styles of singing, and I am still looking for songs suitable to my voice as baritone(precious few of us singing these days as a center stage singer) then I have to oft times take songs that I are at the edge of my range and practice hard to sound good already. Getting two I can set side by side with in order to compare them is going to be a bit harder than normal.

[IanBorthwick]

Ian, this explains to me why some of it just was basically not on. You are trying something outside your range and that's great but I did give my honest opinion. I did listen to everything you posted and I even signed up to singsnap to listen to a few you posted there that you haven't posted here. Some are very good, some are good, some are not so good. I wish you luck as you continue to expand your repertoire. Always do what you love cause if you don't love what you do then you betray yourself.
The not so good ones are usually high end of my range or the master mixer bends my voice...or in some cases I cannot hear myself so I go a little flat. It was a problem when I was younger too. When we did the sound track to Brainstorm they wanted us all to use headsets like the adult chorus was. It made us all sound bad. Mr Neslund has us take the headsets off and things came out better. Still, the fact I have to use my headset now is a handicap and I am working round it to learn how to get the effects I want. Also, having to work WITH a mic is also damn hard for someone classically trained. The sound of some of the earlier attempts was me singing softly and pulling back as mucha s I could and the darn thing still went whacko from my tone. I finally had to get a different mic, use a foam head from another mic, and then turn the Input SOund down to 1/16th. I've been fiddling with the system a lot and found that I can turn Master sound down a little and then turn my computer Input up..and I get a better effect, but I am still learning.

For me, it's a chore, because my voice is powerful enough to be heard with little effort sustaining a note from off stage all the way to the back of the nose bleed seats.

[rissababynta]

Umm....no Rissa...I have to disagree, because I do not believe that I did misunderstand anyone. I have re-read the posts and I did not misunderstand or misinterpret. Does it not occur to you that the others posters, were misunderstanding etc....I am sure that it is possible that they can do so. Me...longwinded....lol...I think not...just expressing myself..my way. And how can that be causing a problem, if one does not decide to read the thread.

I notice that no one has said that snarky remarks, unnecessary bad language and what comes across as just plain rudeness...is wrong.....I wonder why?

Ahhh, surprise you disagree.

I had someone tell me today I was anti-gay because they misunderstood something I had said. After explaining what I said and how they misunderstood and even acknowledged how I could understand why they misunderstood, they chose to ignore everything I said and continued to insist that I was anti-gay, even with their own friends telling them they weren't listening. So, obviously, you find it in all places don't ya...

[Canticle]

Ahhh, surprise you disagree.

I had someone tell me today I was anti-gay because they misunderstood something I had said. After explaining what I said and how they misunderstood and even acknowledged how I could understand why they misunderstood, they chose to ignore everything I said and continued to insist that I was anti-gay, even with their own friends telling them they weren't listening. So, obviously, you find it in all places don't ya...


What I disagree with you about, is me misunderstanding what was post to or at me or any other, on this thread.

I don't believe that I did misunderstand anything....including the things I stated in my prvious post to you.

[darkeyes]

Iggie 'em all Ian, an do ya own thing... we shud all do wot we enjoy an keep tryin 2 get betta at it...:)

[IanBorthwick]

Iggie 'em all Ian, an do ya own thing... we shud all do wot we enjoy an keep tryin 2 get betta at it...:)

Thanks Love, I'l do my best.

[citystyleguy]

...i just voted no, so i guess i made it a tie at this point; personally, post what you want (the plural you), and i, as others, will choose to click on the thread, or not.

as i usually do, i go down the list, click on various threads by what ever catches my attention, and then jump right in, or move on out, seems simple enough to me!

my only suggestion would to be to utilize one common thread, and update that same thread with additional info as you have been doing along in multiple threads.

post away, dude! :cool: