Is discussing sex addiction taboo?

[danreidbarmi]

"From what I've heard," Dr. Silver said, "you describe your behavior as very compulsive. I don't know if this applies to you," my therapist continued (with that practiced look of concern medical professionals seem to be able to conjure up effortlessly and instantaneously), "but you might just recognize yourself in this book." She handed me a torn piece of paper, on which she had written a title and author in a flowing cursive: Out of the Shadows, by Patrick Carnes. Then she added, "This book is considered to be the definite work on the subject of sex addiction."

Having posted a couple of fairly provocative discussions on this site, I noticed that very few contributors seem to feel comfortable with delving into the subject of sexual addiction.

Please note: I've never had any inclination whatsoever to blame my extra-marital, homosexual behavior on an addiction. I mean, doing that would be so typical of this modern culture, where there always seems to be an attempt to justify every abnormal and/or sociopathic act by citing one addiction or another. I am naturally far more inclined to take complete responsibility for my actions, without looking for scapegoats. But, I am definitely finding that the addictive tendencies, experiences, and personalities described in Carnes' book apply to me. It also helps explain why I've been incapable of coming to terms with my sexuality for so long, and gives solid, scientific research to explain why I have habitually put myself in temptation's path and been helpless to make smarter choices in the throes of arousal.

I wonder if anybody has any feedback on this subject, or if sex addiction is a taboo subject here...

[coyotedude]

I don't think such a discussion should be taboo, no.

Whether sex addiction helps explain where you currently find yourself in life, I honestly have no idea. Frankly, I know very little about sex addiction, per se. However, I know that addictions of any kind can be devastating, both to the addict and the people around the addict. If in fact you have an addiction, you will need to learn to manage it much as any other disease.

I believe there is a clear difference between sex addiction and sexual orientation, however. Perhaps your behavior is being driven in part by some sort of addiction. But I have known completely heterosexual men who have likewise been diagnosed with sex addiction.

Your sexual orientation is simply a part of who you are. It influences but does not solely dictate how you live your life.

Peace

[tenni]

I don't think that it is easy for me to support a theory about sex addiction and I doubt that anyone will state that it is a taboo on this site. The word "addiction" has been used for situations other than what I was first told that it meant. Addiction was reserved at one time for a physical condition and now it more loosely used for pyschological conditions. Language and conditions change as theories are developed. Being anything but a heterosexual was considered an "illness" (mental) at one time. I do think that it is curious that a bisexual can be addicted to same sex relationships and not opposite sex relationships. It may be possible though? Same sex situations for a bisexual may create a psychological high that opposite sex does not for a variety of reasons.

I still suspect that the morality of some posters here will prevent them from supporting other bisexuals whether it is a form of addiction or not. I think that they will write that it is not taboo to discuss sex addiction and then continue to condemn and rationalize according to their own personal morality as to what is right and wrong. Some are very helpful that way...:tong:

I do think that being bisexual and having a sex addiction are not synonymous though. If you are "driven" to have same sex and can not stop yourself regardless of the consequences, I don't know if that is a sex addiction. It is possible that some bisexuals may have a same sex addiction and not opposite sex addiction? I think that "counsellors" with better qualifications than any or most on this site have....that might include any who claim expertise in sex areas who post on this site would be better equipped to determine that. The best that we can do is to give a supportive and non judgmental commentary. If someone on this site has gone through similar situations and "sexual addictions" then they might share rather than condemn. That is where this site frequently shines but our own experiences and morality only permits us to go so far. Many of us have same sex and opposite sex experiences and have coped with our own fears and guilts on bisexuality. Few of us are flawless though...certainly not me. So I will not judge some bisexual who states that they wonder if they also dealing with a form of same sex addiction.

[Wrenn]

I would not consider discussing sexual addiction as taboo but any such discussion should be used as a means of support towards seeking professional help to manage the disease.

[abstruse_ric]

"From what I've heard," Dr. Silver said, "you describe your behavior as very compulsive. I don't know if this applies to you," my therapist continued (with that practiced look of concern medical professionals seem to be able to conjure up effortlessly and instantaneously), "but you might just recognize yourself in this book." She handed me a torn piece of paper, on which she had written a title and author in a flowing cursive: Out of the Shadows, by Patrick Carnes. Then she added, "This book is considered to be the definite work on the subject of sex addiction."

And yet another expert on the subject of choices: http://www.theonion.com/video/hot-new-relationship-book-warns-women-wake-up-hes,17053/

Seriously, I don't think sexual addiction is a taboo subject. Whether you receive meaningful advice from this forum (or from me) is another matter. However, if Carnes' book speaks to you then you should definitely follow up with your counselor and explore the differentiation between orientation and addiction, and see where you fit. Bravo. You've taken the first step in investigating your actions and you seem to have discovered a lead that might provide answers.

[Realist]

I think that what some may view as a sexual addiction, could be an elevated level of virility.

My GF has been told by others that she is sexually addicted. But, to me, she has a healthy desire for sexual gratification and it has never interrupted her life, or work. She has always had a time and place set aside to explore her sexuality, which she did with fervor.

I would think that, if she was addicted to sex, she would not be able to perform her duties, or meet commitments, and be as successful as she is.

When I was younger, I was also accused of being sexually addicted, because of my desire for what lovers considered an "abnormal need for sex".

As you might expect, and may have experienced........when there are vastly varied desires between lovers, the relationship cannot last. Of course, it takes more than sex to maintain a relationship, especially love, understanding and mutual interests, but if one part is missing, break-ups may occur. But, I would not consider any of these examples as an addiction.

It's my understanding that an addiction is something a person is unable to control, or at least, reserve for more appropriate times. I don't feel that I, or my GF, ever had this problem.

[open2both]

Discussions are always valid.
Actions/behaviors, not necessarily.

[danreidbarmi]

Please understand that I do not seek to excuse my hurtful, wrong behavior by claiming to have a sexual addiction. Nor, am I trying to tie my sexuality to addiction.

It is obvious that either no one on this forum has any personal experience with sex addiction, or those who have or are in its clutches now are in denial. I don't think anyone can truly empathize with an illness unless they've been there. I thought skin cancer was a wussy condition until I went through it. And, I thought sex addiction was just another justification for sexually deviant and dishonest behavior. But, reading this book, I immediately recognized some of a sex addict's classic symptoms.

I have always assumed that I was (A) very sexual, and (B) without hang-ups about expressing that sexuality with either women or men. Therefore, no one partner could satisfy all of my desires. As hard as I tried to remain monogamous (and I was completely faithful and 100% hetero for many years), my gay side eventually could not be denied.

Like most addicts (first hit's free, little boy), my exploration started in a fairly innocent way. I recalled my first childhood introduction to sex, as a six year old in the woods with a neighborhood friend. Ever since puberty, I've been aroused by the smell of nature, often unable to stop myself from having a wank in the woods. Then, as a young adult, I became a curious observer (online, and at those places where men meet for casual, anonymous sex). But, I was too afraid to let anyone touch me. Gradually, I needed more and more to have contact (first only mutual masturbation, then on the receiving end of manual and and oral, years later as an active participant). As time went on, I needed greater and greater risk to get that same rush. I was in denial about the seriousness of my compulsions. When I needed a man-love fix, there was no rationality to my actions. Often, afterwards, I'd promise myself that was the last time.

Many days, I walked out of my office two hours early to seek a thrill. I spent money and time I could ill afford to prowl the peeps and hardcore movie theaters. When I drove from city to city, I'd stop at every rest area and every Adult "Bookstore" cruising for a connection.

All of this leads me to believe something I didn't want to believe about myself, that I may be a sex addict. I'm seeing my shrink tomorrow. We'll have a hell of a lot to talk about. Eight days after coming out to my wife, the pain level in our household is toxic, and I am about to explore whether I need to get treatment and/or get into a program for an illness.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Ok, so you Might be a sex addict. You have a shrink who understands this malady, let her help you begin to understand it, but dont use it as an excuse. Too many people do that for all Kind of causes. I have a very good friend who had Sexual Addiction issues and it ruined her life until she decided it was time to break the cycle and deal with the real issues Behind her need for constant sex and attention.
Good luck Hon.
Cat

[void()]

Context and congruency mean a great deal. That aside I'm not saying the subject is taboo. But Cat has said everything I could, so poignantly also. If you see Tiger Woods tell him I still won't golf.

[bisexual Bill]

danreidbarmi What you are describing is not sexual addiction.

What you've described is very normal sexual exploration. How old are you?

You were discovering that you are not a heterosexual man.

You are bisexual and were looking for quick public sex with men and that is what you found. It is what you wanted.

There are lots of bisexual and gay men who go out and have sex with strangers in the woods, in public bathrooms, and in adult bookstores.

They are not sex addicts and neither are you. There is nothing wrong with people looking for sex like this or having sex since it is human nature.

If it makes you feel any better I have looked for sex in places like you described. I have had some sex with men the way you described.

Lots of straight people are jealous that they can't easily find sex like us
bisexual and gay men easily can. ;)

What you are describing with the rush is not sexual addiction. It is probably more the thrill of voyeurism, exhibitionism, perhaps a bit of a "taboo" since you were having sex with men, cheating on your wife, and having sex in public.

Having affairs with men and anonymous sex with men who are strangers in public places was your choice to do.

Based on the guidelines for sexual addiction anyone that's sexually active and horny is a candidate for such a dodgy definition of "addiction" that's made up.

You do not need treatment but what you need is a divorce if you are not going to be faithful and monogamous to your wife.

Find a better shrink. Find one that's not a lesbian or straight woman, or female at all.

[danreidbarmi]

Please understand that I do not seek to excuse my hurtful, wrong behavior by claiming to have a sexual addiction.

Cat and Void, please recall the first sentence of my last post above. And, you are absolutely correct. My therapist has earned the diplomas that qualify her to diagnose and treat a condition like this. And, since it was her suggestion that I read the book (to see if I identified with its findings), I will assume that her professional experience leads her to suspect that I might be a candidate.

However, I remind ya'all that, if it turns out that I am a sex addict, I am not bisexual because of my addiction. My compulsive, out-of-control behavior is a separate animal altogether from my sexual orientation. (And, Btw, there are plenty of anecdotals of both male and female sex addicts expressing themselves with specific genders, specific ages, races, etc, usually stemming from childhood experiences they still associate with arousal). There are also neuropathways and chemical balances (dopamine vs serotonin) in the brain that get messed up in an addict (whether the addiction is drugs, sex, gambling, whatever). Some reputable researchers have theorized that sex addiction is the fundamental prototype for all addictive behavior.

Note: Without the compulsion that led me to engage in so much, illicit homosexual activity, I might not have come to the same conclusion about my bisexuality at this point in time, and my marriage might still be intact. But, it's way too late to speculate about that. All of those unruly cats are now outta the bag, and I'm just trying to herd 'em into some kind of order in my own head. I thought maybe there was a chance that someone else on this forum might have some personal experience to bear (or to bare, as it were).

No excuses. Don't want 'em. Don't need 'em. I'm looking to find the truth and to live it. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be in the throes of such painful remorse right now.

[slipnslide]

Further to Tenni's comment the current lack of distinction between addiction and compulsion nowadays makes discussion difficult. Addiction should be easily explained: a chemical has replaced neurotransmitters in a person's brain and when they go away the patient suffers withdrawal and seeks more drugs to ease the withdrawal. If we view compulsion as the irresistible urge to behave in a certain way, then it's reasons are less clear since it's not biochemical in nature.

I'm drawing a blank here. Who was the psychologist who managed to cure many patients by simply having them repeat "I am not crazy" over and over?

[void()]

dan,

I did recall your statement. That's why I phrased mine as such. Sorry you're hurting. I really am. Have said all I may, to say more leads down the wrong roads. You may call me ben if you like, or george, fred, sam, tim, dennis but don't call me late for supper. :)

[DuckiesDarling]

There are plenty of identifiable addictions, some are treatable, some you just have to live with and some are just what docs say when they can't figure out what the hell is wrong with you when you go to them for any malady.

It's not taboo to discuss in fact rule 3 states:

3. Sexual freedom is what it's all about, but even it should have limits - discussions of non-consensual sex, violence and sex, or sex involving children are not welcome here, will be promptly deleted, and the poster may be banned.


I don't think it's a copout, I think it's a legitimate problem a lot of people face. As Dan said it's not to blame for his bisexuality or his cheating and there is no point bringing those two issues into this thread. You want to rant go the proper thread to rant about those issues. I assume the most vocal ranter can actually go find said thread but who gives a fuck most have put her on ignore by now anyway.

[slipnslide]

...There are also neuropathways and chemical balances (dopamine vs serotonin) in the brain that get messed up in an addict (whether the addiction is drugs, sex, gambling, whatever). Some reputable researchers have theorized that sex addiction is the fundamental prototype for all addictive behaviour...

It would follow from this argument that your bisexuality may lie in chemical imbalances. I have noticed that when my mood is low I have more bisexual attractions than when my mood is normal. How will you feel if any treatment you receive also makes you less attracted to men, or eliminates it completely? If being asexual can be attributed to neurotransmitter imbalances, couldn't bisexuality follow suit?

I've tried checking Google for articles about this but unfortunately it's going to take more time. Most of the results are from nut jobs claiming all sexuality outside heterosexuality is a disease rather than finding actual empirical data. Some one has to have researched this. . .

[slipnslide]

Just read the wikipedia article on bisexuality. Can't believe I hadn't checked it out until now. Seems my sexual orientation lies in how my hypothalamus behaves and also explains why I can hear high pitch sounds that my hetero buddies can't. Who knew? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexuality

Still doesn't explain why I feel more bisexual when my mood is lower - or perhaps my own hang-ups lowers my mood when attracted to guys. Is it the chicken or the egg?

[MaybeSayMaybe]

All of this leads me to believe something I didn't want to believe about myself, that I may be a sex addict. I'm seeing my shrink tomorrow. We'll have a hell of a lot to talk about. Eight days after coming out to my wife, the pain level in our household is toxic, and I am about to explore whether I need to get treatment and/or get into a program for an illness.

This is a "look at the bright side" situation. The fact that you even got this far says that you are most of the way there. The heavy lifting part is already done. The long distance run is still ahead. But if you have made it this far, you've already won the critical battle. So sit down and relax - for about an hour. Then keep pushing ahead.

And dump the shrink. There is nothing they can tell you that you haven't already figured out, and they will never tell you that. That is not good for the bottom line.

[danreidbarmi]

You know, it's amazing how some people on this site have a one-size-fits-all response to every single thread. I suggest you find some new lyrics, because these boring, boring, boring words don't fit with every melody.

Also, I never ever said that I "wouldn't care" if my marriage ended. I said that I would be willing to accept the end of my marriage in order to live an honest and open life. So, stop twisting my words, bitch! You're just revealing what an absolute imbecile you really are.

Finally, I have not determined that I have a sexual addiction, nor am I blaming my lying and cheating on a chemical imbalance or on something that happened in my childhood. I am seeking the truth, trying to understand why I'm the way I am, and I am asking if anyone here has any personal light to shed on a very interesting and controversial subject -- one that, for obvious reasons, is very intriguing to me at this time. Unless you've actually walked in my flip flops (pun intended, seasonally appropriate), you can't possibly have a clue. And, as an author, I find it important to avail myself of some actual information before I publish my claims.

Love and Peace to all of you who actually care. To those who just want to drag everyone else down, I feel sadness for your unfulfilled little lives.

Dan



danreidbarmi you're in the throes of painful remorse because you lied and cheated on your wife for years and you are an adult and made the choice to do this.

It was not sexual addiction on your part, it was nothing but lying and cheating on a spouse.

Now your wife is ending the marriage since you're into cheating and lying. You are getting some of what you gave back to her.

In another thread you wrote about how you would not care if your marriage ended when you told your wife that you lied and cheated on her.

Don't complain since you are getting what you asked for and expected for lying and cheating on your wife.

[coyotedude]

On a side note...

Sometimes it's just not worth any time paying attention to trolls, whether posting in the forums or mixing it up in the chat rooms.

The more you give up your power to a troll, the more the troll wins.

In the case of your particular troll, my guess is that she is reacting from her own anger and pain. That anger and pain may be perfectly valid in the context of her life story. I suspect that one cannot truly understand how it feels to have been cheated on unless one has been cheated on.

Still, anger and pain only go so far. And at this point throwing stones is not productive - so long as you remain completely honest to yourself and to your partner, of course.

Just my :2cents:

[citystyleguy]

...addiction shold always be discussed, never shoved aside for something else;

believe me when i say this will be the place to discuss the topic, especially sex addiction!

mmmh, now why would i say that?! :rolleyes:

[danreidbarmi]

I suspect that one cannot truly understand how it feels to have been cheated on unless one has been cheated on.:

And, by the same token, one cannot understand the pain of facing oneself in the mirror after having wreaked havoc on a loved one's life, unless one has been there and done that. I guess some people never face up to the destruction they've caused. I'm just not made that way.

The real irony here is that somebody still in pain, who needs empathy and understanding refuses to give it to someone else. That's what is so sad. We only get what we send out. If we send out judgement and condemnation, that is exactly what will return to us, causing us to become even more resentful and therefore, judgmental.

Of course, Coyotedude, you are absolutely right. It's much better to ignore those who persist in lecturing others so tirelessly on morals. At least March Hare has some smarts (even tho his song is also the same, exact drone).

[Sourdough]

I don't believe in Sex Addition, men were made to be hard wired for sex, period. How we go about it is what makes us differant.

My first wife and I were very open, anybody, anywhere, any time. That was us. When we got married we moved to Vagas, and was on top of the world. We moved back to a town with less than 1200 people, so we had to slow down. She could not handle it so we got divorced.

Second wife and I was very open as well. We did some swinging off and on. Then we got bored with it, so we quite. I met a woman I was interested in, so I discussed it with my wife. She said go for it, so I did. Now for 18 years I spend the summers with the wife in Alaska, then winters with Girl Friend in Florida. Girl friend has said, don't cheat on me. If you want another woman we will discuss it and then make a decission, yes or no. But don't go behind my back. She is just like the wife.

I do have sex with 10 to 15 differant women a year, but I have permission, so I am not cheating. I don't feel I am an addict, I am a mammal, we are herd animals. The biggest Bulls breeds all the cows in the herd. The biggest, strongest Stallion breeds all the Mares in the herd. So we are made to do a lot of breeding, it's in our genes, our Physiological makeup, and instinct. Addiction, that's BS. Society places restrictions on our life styles. Some men cannot live with the restrictions and go outside the boundries, then try and use the Addiction card to prevent accepting responsiability for their actions. To make themselves a victum so society will feel sorry for them for stepping outside the mores set up by society.

[Riclv1]

Dan I can't even begin to tell you how our stories are so alike. I completely understand the search for the truth. That's exactly what I've been doing for the past 2 years since coming out to EVERYONE! It all needed to come so I could HONESTLY begin to look further inside ME. Understand ME. Excepting I am a bisexual man...... freeing! Yet the behavior I displayed is NOT. That’s what I’ve wanted to understand more clearly for myself. Why did I act out in the WAY I did? I have come to some incredible understandings for myself. Looking deeply within I have discovered some very dark shadows I’d been holding. It has been an incredible journey. My wife has also continued in it with me. For she herself has grown from it as well and continues to. So I get man!! I get !

[danreidbarmi]

Dan I can't even begin to tell you how our stories are so alike. I completely understand the search for the truth. That's exactly what I've been doing for the past 2 years since coming out to EVERYONE! It all needed to come so I could HONESTLY begin to look further inside ME. Understand ME. Excepting I am a bisexual man...... freeing! Yet the behavior I displayed is NOT. That’s what I’ve wanted to understand more clearly for myself. Why did I act out in the WAY I did? I have come to some incredible understandings for myself. Looking deeply within I have discovered some very dark shadows I’d been holding. It has been an incredible journey. My wife has also continued in it with me. For she herself has grown from it as well and continues to. So I get man!! I get !

Thanks for the empathy. I am in deep remorse for the pain I've caused, and seeking to find an explanation for why I was so delusional for so long. Before I came out, I honestly thought that sex addiction was just an excuse for the kind of natural proclivities that Sourdough describes. Yet, in reading about this prototypically compulsive disease, I have discovered a whole bunch of frightening symptoms that I can't help but relate to: the denial of the seriousness of my actions, the self-justification, the complete inability to control impulses, the compartmentalization, the shame, and the distancing myself from the closest people in my life. The loneliness of my journey has been horrible. Now the guilt of what I've done is unbearable, and I want to die.

I honestly don't know if I'll survive this. I've shown some incredible pluck in my storied past; but this, at this late stage of my life, is potentially fatal. I'm not intentionally trying to be dramatic here, but that's the status at this juncture. At this very moment, I am trying to let vodka do the job. In the meantime, I hope to finish my book, so that other confused and delusional, bi men don't repeat my mistakes.

[slipnslide]

...Now the guilt of what I've done is unbearable, and I want to die.

I honestly don't know if I'll survive this. I've shown some incredible pluck in my storied past; but this, at this late stage of my life, is potentially fatal.

If you're at all consumed with death at this time march directly to your doctor and seek help. Do not wait to see if it improves.

Depression is no different than heart disease. It has the potential to kill.

[Riclv1]

Dan I have some incredible stories I could share with you regarding the shame, the gilt and the pain. One thing to tell yourself is...I am not my behavior. Owning what one has done is a big step. OWN IT! stand in it and then let it gooooooooo. Takes time....sometimes a moment at a time is all you can see, be or except. Staying in the present moment at all times is all there is....no past no future. Lots and lots of breathing. The only sin is if you went on yet another day in the same way, or chose to run back to that way of life again. Regardless of what anyone says, judges or thinks. It takes a great deal of courage to stand up and say...I've been a cheater, a liar and a secret holder all my life. Going to the dark side can hopefully lead you back to the light and know the difference between the two. The EGO is very powerful. And trust me it was your ego that was leading the way NOT your BEING. I know because I did it too.!

[danreidbarmi]

One thing to tell yourself is...I am not my behavior. Owning what one has done is a big step.

I do know how to make that distinction. In fact, I wrote this song lyric this morning:

I'm not a horrible person
I have done some horrible things
Tho some may paint me as evil
Unworthy to earn angel's wings
I know that I'll be returning
To do it all over again
And next time around, I won't be the scoundrel
No, I'll be his victim to suffer and then...

I'll know what it's like to be lied to
(unfinished)

As far as depression is concerned, this all started with a bout of suicidal clinical depression. I know depression. I'm not depressed now (I am filled with unbearable remorse), but I do look forward to my life ending. I have much to do before that final bridge is crossed. So, I'm putting my brain to the test, trying to finish my work, so I can reconsider my options.

[Waleed Gamani]

Thenk you