Earth Extinction...

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Ok Ya'll if this be the care then I suggest we all congregate and fornicate until our naughty parts fall off!!! lol Hey Tenni, lets go drinkin and debatin first..snicker.
Bad Cat


.Mass Extinction Threat: Earth on Verge of Huge Reset Button?
– Thu Sep 2, 2:30 pm ET
Mass extinctions have served as huge reset buttons that dramatically changed the diversity of species found in oceans all over the world, according to a comprehensive study of fossil records. The findings suggest humans will live in a very different future if they drive animals to extinction, because the loss of each species can alter entire ecosystems.

Some scientists have speculated that effects of humans - from hunting to climate change - are fueling another great mass extinction. A few go so far as to say we are entering a new geologic epoch, leaving the 10,000-year-old Holocene Epoch behind and entering the Anthropocene Epoch, marked by major changes to global temperatures and ocean chemistry, increased sediment erosion, and changes in biology that range from altered flowering times to shifts in migration patterns of birds and mammals and potential die-offs of tiny organisms that support the entire marine food chain.

Scientists had once thought species diversity could help buffer a group of animals from such die-offs, either keeping them from heading toward extinction or helping them to bounce back. But having many diverse species also proved no guarantee of future success for any one group of animals, given that mass extinctions more or less wiped the slate clean, according to studies such as the latest one.

Then and now

Looking back in time, the diversity of large taxonomic groups (which include lots of species), such as snails or corals, mostly hovered around a certain equilibrium point that represented a diversity limit of species' numbers. But that diversity limit also appears to have changed spontaneously throughout Earth's history about every 200 million years.

How today's extinction crisis - species today go extinct at a rate that may range from 10 to 100 times the so-called background extinction rate - may change the face of the planet and its species goes beyond what humans can predict, the researchers say.

"The main implication is that we're really rolling the dice," said John Alroy, a paleobiologist at Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia. "We don't know which groups will suffer the most, which groups will rebound the most quickly, or which ones will end up with higher or lower long-term equilibrium diversity levels."

What seems certain is that the fate of each animal group will differ greatly, Alroy said.

His analysis, detailed in the Sept. 3 issue of the journal Science, is based on almost 100,000 fossil collections in the Paleobiology Database (PaleoDB).

The findings revealed various examples of diversity shifts, including one that took place in a group of ocean bottom-dwelling bivalves called brachiopods, which are similar to clams and oysters. They dominated the Paleozoic era from 540 million to 250 million years ago, and branched out into new species during two huge adaptive spurts of growth in diversity - each time followed by a big crash.

The brachiopods then reached a low, but steady, equilibrium over the past 250 million years in which there wasn't a surge or a crash in species' numbers, and still live on today as a rare group of marine animals.

Counting creatures better

In the past, researchers have typically counted species in the fossil record by randomly drawing a set number of samples from each time period - a method that can leave out less common species. In fact two studies using the PaleoDB used this approach.

Instead, Alroy used a new approach called shareholder sampling, in which he tracked how frequently certain groups appeared in the fossil record, and then counted enough samples until he hit a target number representative of the proportion for each group.

"In some sense the older methods are a little like the American voting system - the first-past-the-post-winner method basically makes minority views invisible," said Charles Marshall, a paleontologist at the University of California, Berkeley, who did not take part in the study. "However, with proportional systems, minority views still get seats in parliament."

Marshall added that the study was the "most thorough quantitative analysis to date using global marine data." But he added that researchers will probably debate whether the PaleoDB data represents a complete-enough picture of the fossil record.

Nothing lasts forever

The idea that rules of diversity change should not come as a surprise for most researchers, according to Marshall.

"To me, the really interesting possibility is that some groups might not yet be close enough to their caps to have those caps be manifest yet," Marshall told LiveScience. Or "evolutionary innovation" might happen so quickly that new groups emerged to increase overall diversity, even if each sub-group reached a cap on diversity.

If anything, the record of past extinctions has shown the difficulty of predicting which groups win out in the long run. "Surviving is one thing and recovering is another," said Marshall, who wrote a Perspectives piece about the study in the same issue of Science.

One of the few consistent patterns is that growth spurts in diversity can apparently happen at any time, according to Alroy. He added that the background extinction of individual species has also remained consistent - the average species lasts just a few million years

Of course, the ongoing extinction crisis of modern times goes far beyond the background extinction rate. Alroy noted that it could not only wipe out entire branches of evolutionary history, but may also change the ecosystems shaped by each species.

That means today's species matter for environments around the world, and so humans can't simply expect replacements from the diverse species of the future.

"If we lose all the reef builders, we may not get back the physical reefs for millions of years no matter how fast we get back all the species diversity in a simple sense," Alroy said.

[Realist]

OMG!

For the past year, or so, I have watched more programs and read about the end coming in 2012. The Incas, Aztecs, and Egyptians, all had calendars that ended in 2012. Nostradamus also predicted that the world, as we know it, will end, then, too.

Dammit, I wish they'd just kept this information to themselves and let it be a big surprise to us. Now, there's one more thing to think and worry about.

My GF says she can't do anything about it, so she's not gonna let it bother her. If it happens, it happens. What a girl...she's good influence on me! I know she's right, so as long as I can hang in there, I'm gonna try to live for today and let tomorrow take care of itself.

[elian]

I saw the Mayan calendar at the Smithsonian Native American Museum, honestly it really didn't look all that special - just a clay disc with some dots..

It's pretty much a given that the Earth can support only a certain amount of life. I think the more we get out of sync with what is REALLY going on around us the more we are at risk. That's kind of why I dismay at the term "Reality" TV ..

The big question is, if we really had as much power and control as certain people aspire to, would we use it wisely and for the positive benefit of others?

[DuckiesDarling]

You know it's odd I fell asleep watching a Nat Geo program about life in a meadow and how modern farming had destroyed the flowering herbs but that new methods were allowing the richness of the meadow to come back. They mentioned that we are in between ice ages and that someday the glaciers would be back to "reset" everything again.

But there are a lot of doomsayers out there who use everything from the quatrains of Nostradamus to the Mayan Calendar to predict the Earth will end. But does the Mayan Calendar say that??? No it says on Dec 20, 2012 we end this age. Guess we'll find out soon how that's gonna work.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Very true guys. What will be, will...but I'm still all for the congregate and fornicate til we all drop from exhustion! lol If I'm gunna go, I cant think of a much better way than wonderful friends, great food, and Fantastic rompage! LOL
Silly Cat

[Nadir]

OMG!

For the past year, or so, I have watched more programs and read about the end coming in 2012. The Incas, Aztecs, and Egyptians, all had calendars that ended in 2012. Nostradamus also predicted that the world, as we know it, will end, then, too.

Dammit, I wish they'd just kept this information to themselves and let it be a big surprise to us. Now, there's one more thing to think and worry about.

My GF says she can't do anything about it, so she's not gonna let it bother her. If it happens, it happens. What a girl...she's good influence on me! I know she's right, so as long as I can hang in there, I'm gonna try to live for today and let tomorrow take care of itself.

Actually, Realist, I read on the newspaper the other day, that the thing that is likely to happen in 2012 (according to scientists, at least) is that the Sun will emit solar flares with more intensity than ever in the last 150 years. This solar flares will emit something akin to a massive EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse) that will switch off most, if not all, electronic systems on Earth. It is known as the "Carrington Effect", named so for the scientist who documented it when it first happened. This exact thing last ocurred in 1859, and it swiftly made all the telegraph systems through Europe and America fail, and some of them burst into flames, that caused intense fires in cities and villages (although, reportedly, some of them were "boosted" by the solar discharge, and continued to send and receive messages after aparently having been disconnected from their power sources). Recent studies have shown that solar flares are rising now more than ever in a couple hundred years... So, what is going to happen in 2012 is that we, basically, are going to be sent back to the Stone Age, unless we count with an extremely good power generator somewhere in our cities and homes. For more information, I recommend you check this links to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cycle_10

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Ok, so we go back to the "Horse and buggy age" IF there are any more horses left. Revert back to having to do things the old way, and put those big solar panals out in Calif to work. Also the wind turbines as well. Grow your own veggies on farms, and begin to raise cattle and sheep, and other farm and ranch animals. Yank up some of that damn concrete thats covering Mother Earth so she cant breathe, and begin to use it as it was InTended to be used. If vehicles cant be used, then so be it. Go back to using animal drawn wagons and what not. I can just See a semi-truck being pulled by Clydsdales and Elephants..lol
Man I can tell I need more caffien....
Cat

[sephirothtx]

several things fuel mass extinctions, there is still vast debate on what killed the dinasours, the likely cause for their extenction, as well as most mass extinctions, is climate change. Climate change might not happen as abrubtly as most natural disasters, but it can happen fast enough to kill off species that are used to living in a certain way. Take example Russuia, during its drought and super heat hundreds of russians died just from the extra heat. WHy? Because they weren't used to living in temperatrues Arizonian's would scoff at. You don't have to imagine somthing like that on a grand scale coming soon, the way we trash mother nature.

Climate changes also produce another affect on the world, atmospheric change. the atmoshpere, for those who don't know, is nothing more than a thick layer of gasses that surround the earth held within their boundries souly by gravitational pull. It's a delciate everchanging system. Even without somthing else (like humans) polluting the sky, the gasses will change every now and then. THe plants and animals that got usedto breathing one type of air may find the new air poisonoius, and in this day and age where we are purposefully poisoning the air we breath we might be pushing ourselfs further and closer to our own mass extinction.

I don't have much hope for change or saving the human race, our vast intellgence breeds mass ignorance, i only hope we don't destroy earth for good and take her down with us in our ongoing attempt at blind mass walking off a cliff like suicide.

[citystyleguy]

...fuck the prognostications, the so-called predictions of the yet to come, the future is unkown, unpredictable, and while so many say it is the earth that will suffer, it will be here long after we have returned to dust.

so i am with cat, congregrate, and fornicate, the end come what may! i'll bring the wine, the cheese, and the figs, the food to party for! :cool:

[darkeyes]

We can debate all we like.. we can theorise and speculate.. but the reality is we do not and can not know any of the future with certainty.. but that things are going to change is certain.. for the better? Much less certain.. but think on this.. if any or all of the theories about 2012 and beyond occurs the earth will survive.. but for the first time it is questionable whether life will.. for if human population collapses, there are so many imponderables regarding our imprint on the earth we simply do not know what damage our disappearance or population thinning will do.. I mention just one.. what happens to the hundreds of nuclear power stations which are running around the earth? Who will maintain them and prevent their meltdown? Who will prevent old inefficient and dangerous stations repeating the Chernobyl catastrophe? Life may survive that scenario.. but it wont be human life or I think mammal life..

Kismet.

[Realist]

I was talking to a fellow about this subject last night.

He said that the way he hopes to die is, when he is right in the middle of the most stupendous orgasm of his life, someone (Knowing him, it'll be a jealous husband) shoots him right in the back of his head!

I think I like Cat's idea, best. Maybe the end won't come, like the predictions, and we'll all be having a great time until it's our day to go, naturally.

[tenni]

"what happens to the hundreds of nuclear power stations which are running around the earth? Who will maintain them and prevent their meltdown? Who will prevent old inefficient and dangerous stations repeating the Chernobyl catastrophe? Life may survive that scenario.. but it wont be human life or I think mammal life.. "

I do not think that any Aztec prediction about 2012 will come to pass. I'm not sure but I think that the calendar just stopped at that point. I do not think that there was an attached document(s) stating that the world would end?...was there?

A very long time ago and early in my life, I took the "required" science course for Social Science students. In that course, we were exposed to many things that had not happened. The state of the planet was predicted to be rather awful. The bottom line was that all the negative changes were really going to be caused by overpopulation of our species. Problems with oil supplies was in the course and this was even before the first oil crisis. Two important ones still on the horizon were "food"(already here but not for the Americas yet) and the biggy just perhaps on the horizon is water. It came down to too many humans to support balance on the planet. Too many humans thinking that they can control nature. We would "fix" it all with technological skill and invention. It won't happen.

Change is here. How long it will take before it becomes extremely visible I would agree that no one can say but scientists can not keep up with how fast change is happening. The changes happening in the Arctic will have drastic if not cataclysmic impact on how the winds move about on the planet, percipitation and other assumed natural events. Drastic changes in the Earth's species is to be expected now or a high probability. Whether humans are one of the species to disappear or not is unknow but not for sure...so wear a condom. Keep the population down because there will be a lot of culling but no one can tell how much.

[darkeyes]

..am a gr8 believer in kismet, Tenni, and its a word I overuse without doubt.. but my kismet is kismet.. and if 2012 comes along and is the end of all, well its life..well.. the end of it at least.. no I agree with you that 2012 is just a date on a calendar. I dont lose sleep over it and like you I will just wait and see what it brings... in the meantime I will live as I have always lived. Enjoying life, working to earn a living, spending my hard gotten gains and trying to be positive and persuade people that they can be better than they are.. as well as having a great deal of fun...:bigrin:

[darkeyes]

Nothing's going to happen.



Summat will happen ok. Even if its only thatya fall outa bed wiv a hangova an look ova on otha pillow an don like who ya c lyin ther an memba wotya wer up 2 previous nite... or worse thatya do, an cant memba wot, if ne thin ya did...:tong:

[mikey3000]

Well that is my guy's birthday and he is quite upset over it. So we've all decided that him, my wife, me and our children will all be together that day, eat very well, celcbrate life together, pull up chairs around a backyard bonfire and just wait for the show. If it happens, so be it (kinda hoping it does), but if not the three of us will curl up in bed together and have a wonderful night.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

There ya go, Mikey! I love your and City's way of thinking! Miss Belle, I think we need to plan an
End of the World Party! Tons of people to romp with, tons of fantastic food, great music and wait for it to, or not, happen. :} Sounds like a hell of a good time ta me! lol
Still waiting on that rum and pepsi there, Tenni. Snicker:bigrin:
Bad Cat

[sammie19]

I meant that the end of the world doomsday and apocalypse won't happen.



Fran was just trying to be funny. I'm not sure it worked on you. lol. She can be quite wicked on occasion.

[sephirothtx]

as for the aztecs prediction calander it has never been exact, but it has predicted great changes in humanity over periods of time extracting that humanity lives in circular patterns, this included them pretty well predicting disaster around ww 2 and such. THe pattern ends on one of these cycles, when somthing is supposed to happen quite dramatically, but it just ends, it dosen't predict the end of the world.
zWhy to choose to end on a cycle? Cause its better then stopping in the middle? or possibly they predicted a quite a few people would over read their calander and stopping it was their way of ffin wiht future generations, primative natives they may ha ve been, but htey where still human....

[Hephaestion]

OMG!

For the past year, or so, I have watched more programs and read about the end coming in 2012. The Incas, Aztecs, and Egyptians, all had calendars that ended in 2012. Nostradamus also predicted that the world, as we know it, will end, then, too.

Dammit, I wish they'd just kept this information to themselves and let it be a big surprise to us. Now, there's one more thing to think and worry about.

My GF says she can't do anything about it, so she's not gonna let it bother her. If it happens, it happens. What a girl...she's good influence on me! I know she's right, so as long as I can hang in there, I'm gonna try to live for today and let tomorrow take care of itself.


Don't worry too much about the cut off dates. It was a fault in their BIOS ROM date functions at the time. These were set up when the aliens visited earth and the population started to making those strange markings in the ground in S.America so as to be able to trace the aquifers.

Seriously, 2010-2020 was predicted back in the 1960's on purely scientific grounds as the period when the earth would reach crisis point on the population levels of mankind and the stupid behaviour of the economists / financiers. The stupids in our society still think that it it possible to tech our way out of the problems rather than address the too many people side of things.

In theory one should bend down and kiss one's own arse goodbye but right now I'll settle for kissing someone else's other than that of my employers; I have been kissing their's for too long without benefit. Line up folks as our equilibriums are about to be (mutually I hope) puncuated.

.

[kegspoon]

According to my calculations, and they are based on SWAG method, that if all men face east and half the women face north, and half face south and start jackin and jillin all at the same time that that motion will stop any confliguration that may happen to the earth,or at least if it doesnt we'll all be happy when it does

[elian]

To celebrate the Holiday here in the US I went to the pizza parlor last night, the restaurant had on "Fox News" and they were harping up and down about how good the conservative political outlook will be in the next election and how we need a return to "good business" policies. That sort of concerned me because I'm sure what they mean by "good business policy" is "less regulation" and it was lack of regulation and a surplus of greed that got the US into a recession in the first place.

I guess maybe what they meant was "let the banks fail" ? I don't know - who is to say what we did was right or wrong? We bicker over it every DAY and the change from our action plays out over YEARS. I for one have seen stimulus money going into small civil works jobs that would have never been done if we were in a depression - most of it isn't very flashy stuff - pave a road, fix a bridge - but if we don't do it the place WILL fall down around us.

One of the ways I view this physical world is as a manifestation of intent - we imagine something in our minds and bring it into reality - I haven't figured out exactly what the stock market represents yet.. I suppose it's a selfish way of viewing the world because it discounts the beauty that IS creation that is wonderfully expressed in the Native American belief system. We could learn a lot from other cultures. The interesting thing is that most of those gloom 'n doom things imagine something happening to the whole world at once, wouldn't it be interesting if only certain geographic locations were affected? Then we could see how far we've advanced socially in the last couple of hundred years. I mean, I guess I already have my answer because the US really doesn't share patented vaccines with the third world, does it? But I wonder if that's the true feeling of the population, or if that's just a few folks protecting their own self interest?


I for one got tired of seeing blue eyed, blond haired children trying to win the Pocahontas beauty contest at the local suburban mall. I guess I have to get out of that "violent" mindset though because what matters most is that the person feels good enough about themselves to believe they are beautiful on the inside, regardless of how they look on the outside. Self esteem issues rip people apart in this culture - its sad - and it leads to other things that are much more dark.

The thing about the cycles, absolutely I think so - history repeats itself until we learn and there probably is a tipping point somewhere - the "game" is over and the whole thing resets. It may take many, MANY of our years but when you aren't conscious "time" just doesn't mean as much, does it?

If we get blown off the grid by an EMP pulse, I will miss you all, and I will be out of work but hey, there are worse things right? I'm really going to miss indoor plumbing and sewage for a while though - I'm sure we could find mechanical systems rather than digital to replace the pump controllers.

[Realist]

Hep, Elian, you're probably right.

I'm normally upbeat and positive, but recent events generated by our government has made it difficult to be optimistic. We've allowed the greedy, selfish, and devious leaders to rule our lives, with no checks and balances. People who look for the Democrats, or Republicans, to get us out of this mess are clueless. They are all working behind the lines to take everything away from all but the "chosen few". Now, they are probably too powerful to topple.

I believe we're going to see more drastic changes in government, before any catastrophic earth changes occur. I fear a complete financial collapse and total autocratic rule by a police state to follow.

In my 70 years on this earth, many good things have happened, in medicine, race relations, and technology, but there has been a steady drift toward a loss of freedoms and a build up of government as well.

In the name of homeland security we have lost more freedoms than we are aware of. Our financial institutions are a mass of deceit and greed, while they sap the blood of hard working, honest people. Laws, and regulations, are being passed quickly, without thorough scrutiny, that are detrimental to the lower and middle classes. I probably don't have an inkling of what is actually going on...and we won't until it's too late.

I hate to be so depressing, but I see little ahead for the young folks growing up today. I think I was born and grew up in the best time in the history of the world, but that's being taken away from us, quickly, piece by piece.

Geez, sorry, but I believe we are on the verge of some terrible times....... for all but the very elite, wealthy and powerful. It's a sickening, fruitless, hopeless feeling, too!

[sammie19]

I hate to be so depressing, but I see little ahead for the young folks growing up today. I think I was born and grew up in the best time in the history of the world, but that's being taken away from us, quickly, piece by piece.

Geez, sorry, but I believe we are on the verge of some terrible times....... for all but the very elite, wealthy and powerful. It's a sickening, fruitless, hopeless feeling, too!

I am young and still have before me over half a century of life and more all being well. But it does scare me what is to come during that half century. I don't think it will be extinction but it will be hard times much of which will be our own fault. Climate change and rising sea levels, food and water shortage, over population and our inbuilt greed will see to it. And I haven't even taken war into account in my calculation.

I want half a century of good living, but don't think I am going to get it.

[Realist]

I hope I'm wrong, Sammie, and that you will get those 50 years, if not more, to experiment, learn, and live as you wish.

[Canticle]

I'm looking forward to watching the Sun rise on January 1st 2013.

Why? Simple really!

As I keep telling people, the fella that was responsible for writing (or whatever you want to call it), the Mayan Calendar, had to go for his lunch. He took too long for his lunch time break and when he got back, his bosses fired him. It was only after he was long gone, that the management realised, that nobody else knew how to work it all out and put it in clay tablets.

Sooooooo, if the guy hadn't been fired..............:rolleyes: and whistles Dixie;)

[sammie19]

I'm looking forward to watching the Sun rise on January 1st 2013.



Without wishing to spoil your eager anticipation. isn't the end due on 23 December 2012 or thereabouts? lol. Maybe we shouldn't bother with Christmas presents just in case.:tong:

[sammie19]

I hope I'm wrong, Sammie, and that you will get those 50 years, if not more, to experiment, learn, and live as you wish.

I hope we are both wrong, but suspect experimenting and learning extremely quickly will be required at some time long before my 50 or 60 years is up. I have a few self sufficiency and survival skills but will need a lot more when things go pear shaped. Living as I wish will not be an option and life expectancy will plummett dramatically. Just trying to stay alive will become more dangerous and precarious. Therefore I fully expect to be dead and gone long before 2060 or 2070.

[Canticle]

Without wishing to spoil your eager anticipation. isn't the end due on 23 December 2012 or thereabouts? lol. Maybe we shouldn't bother with Christmas presents just in case.:tong:

Well...gee....we can't miss out on the pressies.......chocolate.......lots of it!!!

I was looking forward Sammie! One has to be optimistic! Heck, tho' we definitely need the pressies and more on January 1st.......to celebrate the fact, that the world is still intact......:bigrin:

[mikey3000]

We're all going to die, die , DIE!!!!!! ARGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

But who wants to live for ever. I say bring it on. Let Gia have her revenge. We've screwed up enough. Lets give the ol' gal a breather and let her start again.

Remember, if the people live, the Earth will die. But if the people die, the Earth will live. Let it be. And no hard feelings, eh? We've had lots of chances and we blew them all.

[Zayin]

I'm a geology major and my favorite thing to see is how fragile our existence is, the Dinosaurs reigned supreme for 250 million years. We humans have been around for about 2 million. We have a long way to go before we can say we are the dominant species on this planet

[DuckiesDarling]

Humans will always be far from the dominant species, we are prey to many animals if they have a chance at us, just as we eat many animals that eat other animals.

We might be near the top of the food chain but there is always something ready to take advantage even our own feline pets.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Now wait a minute. Politics have nothing to do with natural disasters, they are their Own worst disasters....lol
We as humans have done this to ourselves with the myriad of forms of environmental maladies. We are using up all of our natural resources and tunneling into the earth for more, thus pissing Mother Earth off even further. Its US who are spewing shit into the air and causing all of the clamatic changes, pouring crap into our rivers and oceans and contaminating Everything. So unfortunately we cant blame cow shit for destroying the ozone layer, or blame spewing volcanos for shifting the earths rotational pattern, all we can do is blame ourselves.

So if the Earth is going to end, its all on us for not taking care of the most valuable resource on the Earth....the Earth herself.
So...I propose we just make the best of it, and if it comes, it comes, if it doesnt, then its up to us to get smart and do something about it. Just my humble :2cents: worth. :}
Cat

[citystyleguy]

...don't usually come back to a thread, but for a very few; as i don't know where the politics comes into it, no point in addressing that issue. there is one thing to be sure of, the earth, gia, mother nature, whatever name given, does as it pleases, it is one of the great dynamics of this mysterious universe.

as to the dying, well it is the one absolute we can count on; measured with statistics its likelier to happen in a car then anyother way! whatever way the hell it happens, you cannot live to die.

this great world will do as it wants, or more importantly, as necessary; we can adapt and live with the planet's terms, or we can speed up the death process, pretend that our actions have nothing to do with at least some part of the changes, or be cast aside as the species before us, as the world readjusts the ecology and/or environment.

we can live well, and we can live comfortably, but we need to stop and give serious concerns to how that is to happen; while doing that i intend to find that love where ever he may be, and i'll be there with arms wide open! :2cents:

[darkeyes]

I hope we are both wrong, but suspect experimenting and learning extremely quickly will be required at some time long before my 50 or 60 years is up. I have a few self sufficiency and survival skills but will need a lot more when things go pear shaped. Living as I wish will not be an option and life expectancy will plummett dramatically. Just trying to stay alive will become more dangerous and precarious. Therefore I fully expect to be dead and gone long before 2060 or 2070.

Ever the optimist, eh, sweet lips?

[Hephaestion]

Sammie et al - there is hope for the future except that it cannot be based on the ridiculous notion that we depend on ever expanding economies.

Economies in resonance would be more accurate of description of events anyway; currently the Chinese and Asian Indians are on the ascendancy whilst 'we' are are contracting / declininig. If everyone expands we have a situation akin to stag-flation (stagnant inflation). In all cases, the ability to screw money out of others denotes success in the competions at all levels. That must be kept in check.

Being green is one aspect. Reigning in parts of socially affecting manufacture such the runaway electronics industry is part of this. Keeping vehicles for 25yrs rather than stoking replacements at 3yrs by the manufacturers is yet another. Buildings lasting more than 25yrs is in the list. Artificial chaos induced by governments who have run out of ideas must be abandoned (I look forward to the spit roasting of Mrs T one day). The most important aspect is that of population levels and the realisation that pyramid selling (Ponsy schemes) on this is foolish.

There is no need to go ferral just yet.

However, do remember that this entire thread is an anthropocentric one. When we are extinct, at some point, the cocroaches will inherit the earth. The earth will continue until the sun starts to become a red giant. That is the ultimate inevitability.

[darkeyes]

I am much less pessimistic than Sam, Heph.. I agree with you. I think we will survive and we shall prosper.. but humanity has always had periods of good and bad.. when the population has risen and fallen back.. Sam may be right in how she sees the next 60 years.. she is at least in part right, for we shall have to make such changes in how we live on this planet, that in a century we won't recognise ourselves. We may also undergo a period of population contraction, maybe even collapse for we are at the point where even with the most advanced technologies and farming techiques we are struggling to keep up food production.. it is all very well turning out wonderful new electronic contraptions to make our lives better, but in time it comes down to shelter, food and water. The basics needed for human survival. We in the west are so greedy we want our cake and eat it... we are at the point where we may soon have to settle for something less than cake and eating it will be a much more rare event..

There are new technologies which can help us survive and prosper.. and these are all too slowly coming on stream.. the rush to industrialize by the eastern economies is undermining western half hearted efforts to cut back on carbon emmisions and to go over to renewable energy.. In some ways it is too late.. sea levels will rise and there will be climate change.. not all I dont think is down to humanity and its greed, but much is I am certain.. but now we need to plan for the unknown and not simply react to it. Difficult I know but necessary.. we do know sea levels are rising and approximately at what rate.. we do know what land will be lost to those rising sea levels..we do know where water is needed.. we do know roughly how many humans live on this world of ours.. we are beginning to see where climate change is affecting agricultural areas.. these things and more must be addressed and I believe we shall.. the question is how much and how quickly..

To go to your last point about the eventual extinction of our planet? Even going to the stars will not help us Heph.. for eventually they tell us, even they will go out...

[void()]

British commandos were once questioned by media elements about their strategy and plans. The reply was that an operational strategy of having no plans was in order. This served a few purposes:

1. If captured there was nothing to reveal.
2. No media leaks to the enemy occurring.
3. You can't foul up plans if there are none.
4. Ability to do what was needed when needed.

Those same commandos also used hang gliders & glider planes in effective combat raids in Germany. This is where Kilroy originated. He was painted on the side of one of the gliders with the caption:

Wot, no engine?!

This proves out doing the unexpected can forge positive results. No one expected gliders to be of any help at all, yet some of those raids surely were crucial to defeating the enemy.

So, following suit, I don't plan. I live for the moment. It helps avoid worries and stress over what might or might not be. Besides, how many times have we heard it's all ending, before?

What will be, will.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Slips Void a cookie, gives him a naughty wink, and pecks his cute lil cheek.
Cat

[Realist]

Void, I found this:

"In December 1946 the New York Times credited James J. Kilroy, a welding inspector at the Bethlehem Steel shipyard in Quincy, Massachusetts, with starting the craze. Usually, inspectors used a small chalk mark, but welders were erasing those to get double-paid for their work. To prevent this, Mr Kilroy marked his welding work with the long crayoned phrase ("Kilroy was here") on the items he inspected. The graffito became a common sight around the shipyard and was imitated by workers when they were drafted and sent around the world. As the war progressed, people began opening void spaces on ships for repair, and the mysterious Mr Kilroy's name would be found there, in sealed compartments "where no one had been before."

[void()]

Well, that sounds like a good explanation as well. I'd read up on history of Commandos and found my reference from a Stars & Stripes reporter of the time. I think at times some legend origins get mired together and so blurred no one really knows.

[mikey3000]

The Canadian Press

Date: Sunday Sep. 5, 2010 12:16 PM ET

"MONTREAL — Canadian and American astronauts say the world needs to prepare for the big one -- the asteroid impact that could one day devastate the Earth.

Veteran Canadian astronaut Chris Hadfield is president of the Association of Space Explorers, which has prepared a detailed report on the asteroid threat.

The United Nations is currently studying the report, which outlines plans to detect and deflect any objects in space that might threaten the planet.

Former U.S. astronaut Rusty Schweickart says the basic technology to do this already exists. But he says the effort to steer an asteroid clear of the Earth would have to begin at least 10 years before the expected impact.

One scenario involves smashing a spacecraft into the asteroid to knock it off its collision course.

Canada is about to assume a key role in the search for potential threats from space. The Canadian Space Agency intends to launch NEOSSat next March to look for asteroids that may be hiding near the sun.

The $15-million suitcase-sized satellite will circle about 700 kilometres above the Earth.

A Canadian Space Agency official says NEOSSat is expected to detect hundreds of new asteroids during its first year of operation.

It will also monitor the heavy traffic of satellites now orbiting the Earth to try to prevent possible collisions."


Woo hoo!!! Batten down the hatches and bring it on!!!