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Thread: circumcision

  1. #151

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    Your dick is not beautiful. It's mutilated, and has nasty looking scars and other deformities as that's what happens with circumcision to both women and men.

    Most circumcised women, too, are happy with how they are, and will claim that their vulvas are "beautiful" and not mutilated but this is again denial just like cut men have about their cocks.

    I'm not into rimming as it's disgusting, and if you are a bottom yeah you are passive as that's what the term means. No your ass is not that tight.

    There should be no “debate” on genital cutting or genital mutilation. It all is a violation of human rights and needs to be protected against with legislation and enforcement. There should be no legal amount of oppression one can withstand at the hands of others, or encouraged. It's also very fucked up when a guy gets his own genitals mutilated and then does the same thing to his son. But women who have been 'cut' or who have their genitals mutilated do the same thing to their daughters, and sons.

    I truly don’t understand how anyone could defense genital mutilation of infants in any way. There might be studies on each side, but reality shows that there are no valid health benefits: The majority of Europeans including Jewish people do not mutilate infants after birth and they have less UTI’s, less infections, less penile cancer rates, less infant deaths and less STD’s than cutting eager USA.

    On the contrary, circumcised men are more prone to STD’s because they are less likely to use condoms: either due to the lack of feeling or because they are fooled to think they are safe now!

    Circumcision has been linked with premature ejaculation, and erectile dysfunction.

    I've been with guys who are cut and they all came very fast; but the guys I was with who were not cut had control over when they wanted to orgasm/ejaculate, and did not have PE.

    Dicks that are cut look gross and odd to me since they don't have a foreskin and have a scar and other deformities on them. It's akin to being with a woman who has had her vulva and clit mutilated.
    You can talk all the bullshit you want because I know you're full of shit and a fucktard. You don't know shit about me other than if I saw you in person, I will beat the hell out of you old fart. Call me passive then when you are laying in a pool of your own piss, shit, vomit, and blood. After I'm done beating your weak ass, I'm shoving a Louisville Slugger bat up your ass until you taste wood. Bring your partner too. I will take you both on and you can share a hospital bed together. So go ahead and call me "passive." How's Viagara working out for you, by the way?

  2. #152

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by JaredT77 View Post
    You can talk all the bullshit you want because I know you're full of shit and a fucktard. You don't know shit about me other than if I saw you in person, I will beat the hell out of you old fart. Call me passive then when you are laying in a pool of your own piss, shit, vomit, and blood. After I'm done beating your weak ass, I'm shoving a Louisville Slugger bat up your ass until you taste wood. Bring your partner too. I will take you both on and you can share a hospital bed together. So go ahead and call me "passive." How's Viagara working out for you, by the way?
    Suite melt. Men who are bottoms for anal sex are passive.

    My partner and I don't need Viagra or anything like that since we are not cut. But we know cut men who are our age or even younger who do.

  3. #153

    Re: circumcision

    You are cutting a part of your son's dick off, and mutilating his penis. It can NEVER be replaced. He will never feel the full sexual pleasure that a human man can feel.

    Think about that before you perform genital mutilation on your son's penis because YOU are insecure about being different. Be strong for you son.

  4. #154

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    You are cutting a part of your son's dick off, and mutilating his penis. It can NEVER be replaced. He will never feel the full sexual pleasure that a human man can feel.

    Think about that before you perform genital mutilation on your son's penis because YOU are insecure about being different. Be strong for you son.
    Whatever, fucktard. Your Threads are meaningless. Your polls are meaningless. Your arguments are meaningless. You being on this site is meaningless. Take all your meaningless Threads, your polls, your arguments, and bend over, NO lube, ok? NO Lube. AND STICK IT UP YOUR STUPID FUCKTARD ASS!!! You meaningless old BITCH!!!

  5. #155

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    Suite melt. Men who are bottoms for anal sex are passive.

    My partner and I don't need Viagra or anything like that since we are not cut. But we know cut men who are our age or even younger who do.
    That's not what your partner and your doctor told me. It's ok for a old man at your age to go on Viagara. It's ok.

  6. #156

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by JaredT77 View Post
    Whatever, fucktard. Your Threads are meaningless. Your polls are meaningless. Your arguments are meaningless. You being on this site is meaningless. Take all your meaningless Threads, your polls, your arguments, and bend over, NO lube, ok? NO Lube. AND STICK IT UP YOUR STUPID FUCKTARD ASS!!! You meaningless old BITCH!!!
    I'm not old. Your post makes no sense. You do not actually know either my partner, or my doctor. Get some help.

    A cut dick looks normal in the Muslim world (near-universal), parts of Southeast Asia and of Africa, the United States, the Philippines, Israel, and South Korea. That's it. Everywhere else, a cut dick is abnormal and considered mutilated since that's what circumcision is: involuntary genital mutilation.

    Great company we keep here. Reminds me of the list of countries that still practice capital punishment.
    Last edited by pole_smoker; Nov 25, 2014 at 9:19 AM.

  7. #157

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    Your post makes no sense. Get some help.
    In a nutshell, I believe this summarizes most of what you've been posting on this site.

  8. #158

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by AGuyIKnow View Post
    In a nutshell, I believe this summarizes most of what you've been posting on this site.
    Nope. Either way I was describing the troll Jared, and not myself.

    I have had people email me or private message me telling me how they do like my posts and polls.

    You are not healthier by missing healthy and normal body parts or by having your penis mutilated. That is ridiculous. It’s like saying you are healthier if you don’t have testicles since you may get cancer in one or both. Or you are healthier by not having eyelids since then you won't get eye infections.

    Suffice it to say that every society that practices female genital mutilation also mutilates the genitals of boys. The reasons African women give for having their genitals mutilated are quite similar to the reasons American parents give for mutilating the genitals of their sons.

  9. #159

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    Nope. Either way I was describing the troll Jared, and not myself.

    I have had people email me or private message me telling me how they do like my posts and polls.

    You are not healthier by missing healthy and normal body parts or by having your penis mutilated. That is ridiculous. It’s like saying you are healthier if you don’t have testicles since you may get cancer in one or both. Or you are healthier by not having eyelids since then you won't get eye infections.

    Suffice it to say that every society that practices female genital mutilation also mutilates the genitals of boys. The reasons African women give for having their genitals mutilated are quite similar to the reasons American parents give for mutilating the genitals of their sons.
    What is this guys obsession with "young boys" and their circumcised penises? Doesn't he know the difference between being bi and being a pedophile? Next he will start a poll on "Do you like young boys with hair or without".

  10. #160

    Re: circumcision

    Most of the poll's have nothing to do with bisexuality.

  11. #161

    Re: circumcision

    Non sequitur. An interest in boys not being circumcised does not correlate to pedophilia just as an interest in being a pediatrician does not correlate to being a pedophile. Also, circumcision is usually dealt with at an early age so the topic of "young boys" as you out it would be a logical conclusion. Many fathers and mothers take interest in this subject from the aspect of protecting their children from harm.

  12. #162

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    I'm not old. Your post makes no sense. You do not actually know either my partner, or my doctor. Get some help.

    A cut dick looks normal in the Muslim world (near-universal), parts of Southeast Asia and of Africa, the United States, the Philippines, Israel, and South Korea. That's it. Everywhere else, a cut dick is abnormal and considered mutilated since that's what circumcision is: involuntary genital mutilation.

    Great company we keep here. Reminds me of the list of countries that still practice capital punishment.
    Maybe we should do a poll on you poll_smoker on how many people think that you belong in a mental institute. I don't want to know you or your partner but maybe should discuss with your doctor to increase the dosage. AND STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM LITTLE BOYS, YOU FUCKTARD!!!!!!

  13. #163

    Re: circumcision

    JaredT77, I'm not sure that tossing dagger's out on the public thread is the right thing to do either. This just makes you just as annoying. I can't disagree with what you're saying though. It would be great if you would stop trashing this site also.

    I'm certainly not condoning pole's method. I do understand his point of view, I just think he's been beating his drum way beyond what was nessesary.

    Pole may actually be a great guy in person. The internet gives people the ability to be someone they normally can't be in person.

  14. #164

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by AGuyIKnow View Post
    JaredT77, I'm not sure that tossing dagger's out on the public thread is the right thing to do either. This just makes you just as annoying. I can't disagree with what you're saying though. It would be great if you would stop trashing this site also.

    I'm certainly not condoning pole's method. I do understand his point of view, I just think he's been beating his drum way beyond what was nessesary.

    Pole may actually be a great guy in person. The internet gives people the ability to be someone they normally can't be in person.
    You're right. I agree with you totally. This has gone on way too long.

  15. #165

    Re: circumcision

    If you hate your sons and want them to have an ugly mutilated penis, that's a lot less sensitive, and that will cause their female and/or male sexual partners pain or discomfort during intercourse and won't be as fun to masturbate or give oral sex to then by all means mutilate their dick and all this will happen when they're an adult.


    Eventually they'll get Erectile Dysfucntion and guys who are cut can get it at all ages; but it should be no surprise that the majority of men who have ED even younger men, are all cut and from countries that practice routine genital mutilation.


    It's also no surprise that in the United States where lots of men are cut you constantly see TV advertisements for sex lubes that cut guys think feel good but in reality they don't feel that good, and medications for women who have painful intercourse with men. Both my partner and myself have experienced that cut guys tend to ejaculate way too fast and have premature ejaculation-while men who are intact and not cut don't.


    Fortunately, the majority of younger men in the United States in the 18-early 30s age range are not having their genitals mutilated by their parents, and are not doing it to their sons. Eventually the United States will catch up to the rest of the world where genital mutilation is not practiced on boys or men at all.

  16. #166

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    If you hate your sons and want them to have an ugly mutilated penis, that's a lot less sensitive, and that will cause their female and/or male sexual partners pain or discomfort during intercourse and won't be as fun to masturbate or give oral sex to then by all means mutilate their dick and all this will happen when they're an adult.


    Eventually they'll get Erectile Dysfucntion and guys who are cut can get it at all ages; but it should be no surprise that the majority of men who have ED even younger men, are all cut and from countries that practice routine genital mutilation.


    It's also no surprise that in the United States where lots of men are cut you constantly see TV advertisements for sex lubes that cut guys think feel good but in reality they don't feel that good, and medications for women who have painful intercourse with men. Both my partner and myself have experienced that cut guys tend to ejaculate way too fast and have premature ejaculation-while men who are intact and not cut don't.


    Fortunately, the majority of younger men in the United States in the 18-early 30s age range are not having their genitals mutilated by their parents, and are not doing it to their sons. Eventually the United States will catch up to the rest of the world where genital mutilation is not practiced on boys or men at all.
    Nobody said anything about hating their own sons. I do think your information is false. You can say whatever you want, but you are mistaken.

  17. #167

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by JaredT77 View Post
    Nobody said anything about hating their own sons. I do think your information is false. You can say whatever you want, but you are mistaken.
    Just because you want to put your head into the sand and claim what I'm writing is false does not make it true, or not factual.

    Do your own research about circumcision or male genital mutilation and you'll see what I've posted about the subject of male genital mutilation is all completely true.

    Keep in mind that there are lots of completely biased and false pro-mutilation studies and claims that have since been completely refuted, and shown to be false and junk science.

  18. #168

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    Just because you want to put your head into the sand and claim what I'm writing is false does not make it true, or not factual.

    Do your own research about circumcision or male genital mutilation and you'll see what I've posted about the subject of male genital mutilation is all completely true.

    Keep in mind that there are lots of completely biased and false pro-mutilation studies and claims that have since been completely refuted, and shown to be false and junk science.
    Ok, I will keep that in mind. I'm just saying that I don't consider my cock "mutilated" like you claim it is. It works just fine and works great and I have had plenty of great sex. I don't have any STDs either. I never had any complaints about my cock as I cum multiple times during sex and still stay hard. You may say otherwise but I'm happy with my cock and I don't regret my son getting circumcised either.

    If yours and your partner's cocks are so great, why don't you fly down to Florida and stick them in my mouth? I never sucked a uncut cock before.

  19. #169

    Re: circumcision

    Ok this is what I got from WebMD (m.webmd.com):

    What are the benefits of circumcision?
    There is some evidence that circumcision has health benefits, including:
    -A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
    -A reduced risk of some sexually transmitted diseases in men.
    -Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
    -Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
    -Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).

    Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean. (Have you ever changed your son's diapers, pole_smoker? I have.)

    Note: Some studies show that good hygiene can help prevent certain problems with the penis, including infections and swelling, even if the penis is not circumcised. In addition, using a condom during sex will prevent STDs and other infections.

    What are the risks of circumcision?
    -Pain
    -Risk of bleeding and infection at the site of the circumcision
    -Irritation of the glans
    -Increased risk of meatitis (inflammation of the opening of the penis)
    -Risk of injury to the penis

    So I do not regret being circumcised or having my son's penis circumcised. What you call "mutilation" I call it "necessary." I think the benefits outweigh the risks. Just my opinion. This is a highly debatable subject but I am all for circumcision.

  20. #170

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by JaredT77
    Ok, I will keep that in mind. I'm just saying that I don't consider my cock "mutilated" like you claim it is. It works just fine and works great and I have had plenty of great sex. I don't have any STDs either. I never had any complaints about my cock as I cum multiple times during sex and still stay hard. You may say otherwise but I'm happy with my cock and I don't regret my son getting circumcised either.


    If yours and your partner's cocks are so great, why don't you fly down to Florida and stick them in my mouth? I never sucked a uncut cock before.
    Why even ask or beg us to go see you for sex, when you know the answer will be no?

  21. #171

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    Why even ask or beg us to go see you for sex, when you know the answer will be no?
    I'm not begging. Not at all. It was a rhetorical question, because I already knew the answer. I was just calling you out.

  22. #172

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by JaredT77 View Post
    Ok this is what I got from WebMD (m.webmd.com):

    What are the benefits of circumcision?
    There is some evidence that circumcision has health benefits, including:
    -A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
    -A reduced risk of some sexually transmitted diseases in men.
    -Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
    -Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
    -Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).

    Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean. (Have you ever changed your son's diapers, pole_smoker? I have.)

    Note: Some studies show that good hygiene can help prevent certain problems with the penis, including infections and swelling, even if the penis is not circumcised. In addition, using a condom during sex will prevent STDs and other infections.

    What are the risks of circumcision?
    -Pain
    -Risk of bleeding and infection at the site of the circumcision
    -Irritation of the glans
    -Increased risk of meatitis (inflammation of the opening of the penis)
    -Risk of injury to the penis

    So I do not regret being circumcised or having my son's penis circumcised. What you call "mutilation" I call it "necessary." I think the benefits outweigh the risks. Just my opinion. This is a highly debatable subject but I am all for circumcision.
    See, now that's a biased source. There are no real benefits to circumcision or male genital mutilation since very few intact men actually experience any of what you posted like balanitis, penile cancer, UTIs, an STD, or phimosis.

    Cervical cancer is caused either by cancer spreading to the cervix, or from a man having HPV and not from foreskin.

    Cancer of the male and female reproductive organs is as common among the American and Israeli middle class as it is among the European and Japanese middle class. In societies where a daily shower is the norm, where phimosis is attended to, and where condoms are sold in every supermarket, being intact is no handicap.
    Girls have 3-4x more UTIs than intact boys do. These UTIs are seldom devastating, for either gender. Quite a few women, experience chronic UTIs lifelong. UTIs in western women very seldom have tragic outcomes, because they get antibiotics / sulfa drugs. This suggests that boys can be treated the same as girls, which is in fact the case in Europe and Japan, and is increasingly the case in the USA.

    As for hygiene, circumcision is an extreme and irreversible solution to a trivial problem. The only westerners who circumcise for nonreligious reasons that may
    include hygiene, are most Americans and South Koreans, and 30% (10%) of
    Canadians (Australians). The AAP in 2012 said that there is no evidence
    that the natural penis is a hygienic problem for men who take daily
    showers.


    Have you ever seen smegma? Have you ever seen an intact man clean himself in the shower? Smegma is far less of a problem than cut Americans make it out to be. For one thing, it washes away very easily. Brushing and flossing your teeth takes more effort than cleaning your foreskin.

    Circumcision does nothing to actually prevent HIV and other STDs from infecting a man or from a man infected with HIV or other STDs from infecting his partners. Or, it's not as effective as using condoms and having proper safer sex. Also, the studies that claimed that guys who are cut don't get STDs or HIV are highly flawed and junk science. They had the cut guys use condoms for one thing, and the study was actually stopped when it should have ran a lot longer.

    The HIV claim is just another desperate attempt to justify an outdated ritualistic tribal practice as these excuses have been following another for the last two centuries.

    Myself and many other actual medical professionals don't buy the BS about circumcision and its benefits the same way I would reject the idea that if you sew up a girl's vagina it will certainly reduce the risk of cancers and HIV.

    Also, if the theory about circumcision preventing HIV and STD infection and transmission were remotely true you would not have had an entire generation or two of gay and bisexual men who were all cut get infected with HIV and other STDs, and die from AIDS or complications of HIV. Plus, even today the USA where most men of a certain age are cut we still have a very high number of people who are infected with HIV and other STDs.

    I strongly suspect that circumcised men are more reluctant to use condoms.

  23. #173

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    See, now that's a biased source. There are no real benefits to circumcision or male genital mutilation since very few intact men actually experience any of what you posted like balanitis, penile cancer, UTIs, an STD, or phimosis.

    Cervical cancer is caused either by cancer spreading to the cervix, or from a man having HPV and not from foreskin.

    Cancer of the male and female reproductive organs is as common among the American and Israeli middle class as it is among the European and Japanese middle class. In societies where a daily shower is the norm, where phimosis is attended to, and where condoms are sold in every supermarket, being intact is no handicap.
    Girls have 3-4x more UTIs than intact boys do. These UTIs are seldom devastating, for either gender. Quite a few women, experience chronic UTIs lifelong. UTIs in western women very seldom have tragic outcomes, because they get antibiotics / sulfa drugs. This suggests that boys can be treated the same as girls, which is in fact the case in Europe and Japan, and is increasingly the case in the USA.

    As for hygiene, circumcision is an extreme and irreversible solution to a trivial problem. The only westerners who circumcise for nonreligious reasons that may
    include hygiene, are most Americans and South Koreans, and 30% (10%) of
    Canadians (Australians). The AAP in 2012 said that there is no evidence
    that the natural penis is a hygienic problem for men who take daily
    showers.


    Have you ever seen smegma? Have you ever seen an intact man clean himself in the shower? Smegma is far less of a problem than cut Americans make it out to be. For one thing, it washes away very easily. Brushing and flossing your teeth takes more effort than cleaning your foreskin.

    Circumcision does nothing to actually prevent HIV and other STDs from infecting a man or from a man infected with HIV or other STDs from infecting his partners. Or, it's not as effective as using condoms and having proper safer sex. Also, the studies that claimed that guys who are cut don't get STDs or HIV are highly flawed and junk science. They had the cut guys use condoms for one thing, and the study was actually stopped when it should have ran a lot longer.

    The HIV claim is just another desperate attempt to justify an outdated ritualistic tribal practice as these excuses have been following another for the last two centuries.

    Myself and many other actual medical professionals don't buy the BS about circumcision and its benefits the same way I would reject the idea that if you sew up a girl's vagina it will certainly reduce the risk of cancers and HIV.

    Also, if the theory about circumcision preventing HIV and STD infection and transmission were remotely true you would not have had an entire generation or two of gay and bisexual men who were all cut get infected with HIV and other STDs, and die from AIDS or complications of HIV. Plus, even today the USA where most men of a certain age are cut we still have a very high number of people who are infected with HIV and other STDs.

    I strongly suspect that circumcised men are more reluctant to use condoms.
    You are biased about this subject in general so how can you say that a website like WebMD is being biased? Another rhetorical question. You do not have too many people convinced that their cock is mutilated, but we know that you are narcissistic.

  24. #174

    Re: circumcision

    Part 1 - Circumcision Surgery Myths


    Myth 1: They just cut off a flap of skin.


    Reality check: Not true. The foreskin is half of the penis's skin, not just a flap. In an adult man, the foreskin is 15 square inches of skin. In babies and children, the foreskin is adhered to the head of the penis with the same type of tissue that adheres fingernails to their nail beds. Removing it requires shoving a blunt probe between the foreskin and the head of the penis and then cutting down and around the whole penis. Check out these photos: http://www.drmomma.org/2011/08/intac...gnificant.html


    Myth 2: It doesn't hurt the baby.


    Reality check: Wrong. In 1997, doctors in Canada did a study to see what type of anesthesia was most effective in relieving the pain of circumcision. As with any study, they needed a control group that received no anesthesia. The doctors quickly realized that the babies who were not anesthetized were in so much pain that it would be unethical to continue with the study. Even the best commonly available method of pain relief studied, the dorsal penile nerve block, did not block all the babies' pain. Some of the babies in the study were in such pain that they began choking and one even had a seizure (Lander 1997).


    Myth 3: My doctor uses anesthesia.


    Reality check: Not necessarily. Most newborns do not receive adequate anesthesia. Only 45% of doctors who do circumcisions use any anesthesia at all. Obstetricians perform 70% of circumcisions and are least likely to use anesthesia - only 25% do. The most common reasons why they don't? They didn't think the procedure warranted it, and it takes too long (Stang 1998). A circumcision with adequate anesthesia takes a half-hour - if they brought your baby back sooner, he was in severe pain during the surgery.


    Myth 4: Even if it is painful, the baby won't remember it.


    Reality check: The body is a historical repository and remembers everything. The pain of circumcision causes a rewiring of the baby's brain so that he is more sensitive to pain later (Taddio 1997, Anand 2000). Circumcision also can cause post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depression, anger, low self-esteem and problems with intimacy (Boyle 2002, Hammond 1999, Goldman 1999). Even with a lack of explicit memory and the inability to protest - does that make it right to inflict pain? Ethical guidelines for animal research whenever possible* - do babies deserve any less?


    Myth 5: My baby slept right through it.


    Reality check: Not possible without total anesthesia, which is not available. Even the dorsal penile nerve block leaves the underside of the penis receptive to pain. Babies go into shock, which though it looks like a quiet state, is actually the body's reaction to profound pain and distress. Nurses often tell the parents "He slept right through it" so as not to upset them. Who would want to hear that his or her baby was screaming in agony?


    Myth 6: It doesn't cause the baby long-term harm.


    Reality check: Incorrect. Removal of healthy tissue from a non-consenting patient is, in itself, harm (more on this point later). Circumcision has an array of risks and side effects. There is a 1-3% complication rate during the newborn period alone (Schwartz 1990). Here is a short list potential complications.


    Meatal Stenosis: Many circumcised boys and men suffer from meatal stenosis. This is a narrowing of the urethra which can interfere with urination and require surgery to fix.


    Adhesions. Circumcised babies can suffer from adhesions, where the foreskin remnants try to heal to the head of the penis in an area they are not supposed to grow on. Doctors treat these by ripping them open with no anesthesia.


    Buried penis. Circumcision can lead to trapped or buried penis - too much skin is removed, and so the penis is forced inside the body. This can lead to problems in adulthood when the man does not have enough skin to have a comfortable erection. Some men even have their skin split open when they have an erection. There are even more sexual consequences, which we will address in a future post.


    Infection. The circumcision wound can become infected. This is especially dangerous now with the prevalence of hospital-acquired multi-drug resistant bacteria.


    Death. Babies can even die of circumcision. Over 100 newborns die each year in the USA, mostly from loss of blood and infection (Van Howe 1997 & 2004, Bollinger 2010).


    Myth: You have to get the baby circumcised because it is really hard to keep a baby's penis clean.


    Reality check: In babies, the foreskin is completely fused to the head of the penis. You cannot and should not retract it to clean it, as this would cause the child pain, and is akin to trying to clean the inside of a baby girl's vagina. The infant foreskin is perfectly designed to protect the head of the penis and keep feces out. All you have to do is wipe the outside of the penis like a finger. It is harder to keep circumcised baby's penis clean because you have to carefully clean around the wound, make sure no feces got into the wound, and apply ointment.


    Myth: Little boys won't clean under their foreskins and will get infections.


    Reality check: The foreskin separates and retracts on its own sometime between age 3 and puberty. Before it retracts on its own, you wipe the outside off like a finger. After it retracts on its own, it will get clean during the boy's shower or bath. Once a boy discovers this cool, new feature of his penis, he will often retract the foreskin himself during his bath or shower, and you can encourage him to rinse it off. But he should not use soap as this upsets the natural balance and is very irritating. There is nothing special that the parents need to do. Most little boys have absolutely no problem playing with their penises in the shower or anywhere else! It was harder to teach my boys to wash their hair than it was to care for their penises. (Camille 2002)


    Myth: Uncircumcised penises get smelly smegma.


    Reality check: Actually, smegma is produced by the genitals of both women and men during the reproductive years. Smegma is made of sebum and skin cells and lubricates the foreskin and glans in men, and the clitoral hood and inner labia in women. It is rinsed off during normal bathing and does not cause cancer or any other health problems.


    Myth: "My uncle wasn't circumcised and he kept getting infections and had to be circumcised as an adult."


    Reality check: Medical advice may have promoted infection in uncircumcised males. A shocking number of doctors are uneducated about the normal development of the foreskin, and they (incorrectly) tell parents that they have to retract the baby's foreskin and wash inside it at every diaper change. Doing this tears the foreskin and the tissue (called synechia) that connects it to the head of the penis, leading to scarring and infection.


    Misinformation was especially prevalent during the 1950s and 60s, when most babies were circumcised and we didn't know as much about the care of the intact penis, which is why the story is always about someone's uncle. Doing this to a baby boy would be like trying to clean the inside of a baby girl's vagina with Q-tips at every diaper change. Rather than preventing problems, such practices would cause problems by introducing harmful bacteria. Remember that humans evolved from animals, so no body part that required special care would survive evolutionary pressures. The human genitals are wonderfully self-cleaning and require no special care.


    Myth: My son was diagnosed with phimosis and so had to be circumcised.


    Reality check: Phimosis means that the foreskin will not retract. Since children's foreskins are naturally not retractable, it is impossible to diagnose phimosis in a child. Any such diagnoses in infants are based on misinformation, and are often made in order to secure insurance coverage of circumcision in states in which routine infant circumcision is no longer covered.


    Even some adult men have foreskins that do not retract, but as long as it doesn't interfere with sexual intercourse, it is no problem at all, as urination itself cleans the inside of the foreskin (note that urine is sterile when leaving the body.)


    Phimosis can also be treated conservatively with a steroid cream and gentle stretching done by the man himself, should he so desire it, or, at worst, a slit on the foreskin, rather than total circumcision. (Ashfield 2003) These treatment decisions can and should be made by the adult man.


    Myth: Uncircumcised boys get more urinary tract infections (UTIs.)


    Reality check: This claim is based on one study that looked at charts of babies born in one hospital (Wiswell 1985). The study had many problems, including that it didn't accurately count whether or not the babies were circumcised, whether they were premature and thus more susceptible to infection in general, whether they were breastfed (breastfeeding protects against UTI), and if their foreskins had been forcibly retracted (which can introduce harmful bacteria and cause UTI) (Pisacane 1990). There have been many studies since which show either no decrease in UTI with circumcision, or else an increase in UTI from circumcision. Thus circumcision is not recommended to prevent UTI (Thompson 1990). Girls have higher rates of UTI than boys, and yet when a girl gets a UTI, she is simply prescribed antibiotics. The same treatment works for boys.


    Myth: Circumcision prevents HIV/AIDS.


    Reality check: Three studies in Africa several years ago that claimed that circumcision prevented AIDS and that circumcision was as effective as a 60% effective vaccine (Auvert 2005, 2006). These studies had many flaws, including that they were stopped before all the results came in. There have also been several studies that show that circumcision does not prevent HIV (Connolly 2008). There are many issues at play in the spread of STDs which make it very hard to generalize results from one population to another.


    In Africa, where the recent studies have been done, most HIV transmission is through male-female sex, but in the USA, it is mainly transmitted through blood exposure (like needle sharing) and male-male sex. Male circumcision does not protect women from acquiring HIV, nor does it protect men who have sex with men (Wawer 2009, Jameson 2009).


    What's worse, because of the publicity surrounding the African studies, men in Africa are now starting to believe that if they are circumcised, they do not need to wear condoms, which will increase the spread of HIV (Westercamp 2010). Even in the study with the most favorable effects of circumcision, the protective effect was only 60% - men would still have to wear condoms to protect themselves and their partners from HIV.


    In the USA, during the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s and 90s, about 85% of adult men were circumcised (much higher rates of circumcision than in Africa), and yet HIV still spread.


    It is important to understand, too, that the men in the African studies were adults and they volunteered for circumcision. Babies undergoing circumcision were not given the choice to decide for themselves.


    Myth: Circumcision is worth it because it can save lives.


    Reality check: Consider breast cancer: There is a 12% chance that a woman will get breast cancer in her lifetime. Removal of the breast buds at birth would prevent this, and yet no one would advocate doing this to a baby. It is still considered somewhat shocking when an adult woman chooses to have a prophylactic mastectomy because she has the breast cancer gene, yet this was a personal choice done based upon a higher risk of cancer. The lifetime risk of acquiring HIV is less than 2% for men, and can be lowered to near 0% through condom-wearing (Hall 2008). How, then, can we advocate prophylactic circumcision for baby boys?


    Science and data do not support the practice of infant circumcision. Circumcision does not preclude the use of the condom. The adult male should have the right to make the decision for himself and not have his body permanently damaged as a baby.

  25. #175

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    Part 1 - Circumcision Surgery Myths


    Myth 1: They just cut off a flap of skin.


    Reality check: Not true. The foreskin is half of the penis's skin, not just a flap. In an adult man, the foreskin is 15 square inches of skin. In babies and children, the foreskin is adhered to the head of the penis with the same type of tissue that adheres fingernails to their nail beds. Removing it requires shoving a blunt probe between the foreskin and the head of the penis and then cutting down and around the whole penis. Check out these photos: http://www.drmomma.org/2011/08/intac...gnificant.html


    Myth 2: It doesn't hurt the baby.


    Reality check: Wrong. In 1997, doctors in Canada did a study to see what type of anesthesia was most effective in relieving the pain of circumcision. As with any study, they needed a control group that received no anesthesia. The doctors quickly realized that the babies who were not anesthetized were in so much pain that it would be unethical to continue with the study. Even the best commonly available method of pain relief studied, the dorsal penile nerve block, did not block all the babies' pain. Some of the babies in the study were in such pain that they began choking and one even had a seizure (Lander 1997).


    Myth 3: My doctor uses anesthesia.


    Reality check: Not necessarily. Most newborns do not receive adequate anesthesia. Only 45% of doctors who do circumcisions use any anesthesia at all. Obstetricians perform 70% of circumcisions and are least likely to use anesthesia - only 25% do. The most common reasons why they don't? They didn't think the procedure warranted it, and it takes too long (Stang 1998). A circumcision with adequate anesthesia takes a half-hour - if they brought your baby back sooner, he was in severe pain during the surgery.


    Myth 4: Even if it is painful, the baby won't remember it.


    Reality check: The body is a historical repository and remembers everything. The pain of circumcision causes a rewiring of the baby's brain so that he is more sensitive to pain later (Taddio 1997, Anand 2000). Circumcision also can cause post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depression, anger, low self-esteem and problems with intimacy (Boyle 2002, Hammond 1999, Goldman 1999). Even with a lack of explicit memory and the inability to protest - does that make it right to inflict pain? Ethical guidelines for animal research whenever possible* - do babies deserve any less?


    Myth 5: My baby slept right through it.


    Reality check: Not possible without total anesthesia, which is not available. Even the dorsal penile nerve block leaves the underside of the penis receptive to pain. Babies go into shock, which though it looks like a quiet state, is actually the body's reaction to profound pain and distress. Nurses often tell the parents "He slept right through it" so as not to upset them. Who would want to hear that his or her baby was screaming in agony?


    Myth 6: It doesn't cause the baby long-term harm.


    Reality check: Incorrect. Removal of healthy tissue from a non-consenting patient is, in itself, harm (more on this point later). Circumcision has an array of risks and side effects. There is a 1-3% complication rate during the newborn period alone (Schwartz 1990). Here is a short list potential complications.


    Meatal Stenosis: Many circumcised boys and men suffer from meatal stenosis. This is a narrowing of the urethra which can interfere with urination and require surgery to fix.


    Adhesions. Circumcised babies can suffer from adhesions, where the foreskin remnants try to heal to the head of the penis in an area they are not supposed to grow on. Doctors treat these by ripping them open with no anesthesia.


    Buried penis. Circumcision can lead to trapped or buried penis - too much skin is removed, and so the penis is forced inside the body. This can lead to problems in adulthood when the man does not have enough skin to have a comfortable erection. Some men even have their skin split open when they have an erection. There are even more sexual consequences, which we will address in a future post.


    Infection. The circumcision wound can become infected. This is especially dangerous now with the prevalence of hospital-acquired multi-drug resistant bacteria.


    Death. Babies can even die of circumcision. Over 100 newborns die each year in the USA, mostly from loss of blood and infection (Van Howe 1997 & 2004, Bollinger 2010).


    Myth: You have to get the baby circumcised because it is really hard to keep a baby's penis clean.


    Reality check: In babies, the foreskin is completely fused to the head of the penis. You cannot and should not retract it to clean it, as this would cause the child pain, and is akin to trying to clean the inside of a baby girl's vagina. The infant foreskin is perfectly designed to protect the head of the penis and keep feces out. All you have to do is wipe the outside of the penis like a finger. It is harder to keep circumcised baby's penis clean because you have to carefully clean around the wound, make sure no feces got into the wound, and apply ointment.


    Myth: Little boys won't clean under their foreskins and will get infections.


    Reality check: The foreskin separates and retracts on its own sometime between age 3 and puberty. Before it retracts on its own, you wipe the outside off like a finger. After it retracts on its own, it will get clean during the boy's shower or bath. Once a boy discovers this cool, new feature of his penis, he will often retract the foreskin himself during his bath or shower, and you can encourage him to rinse it off. But he should not use soap as this upsets the natural balance and is very irritating. There is nothing special that the parents need to do. Most little boys have absolutely no problem playing with their penises in the shower or anywhere else! It was harder to teach my boys to wash their hair than it was to care for their penises. (Camille 2002)


    Myth: Uncircumcised penises get smelly smegma.


    Reality check: Actually, smegma is produced by the genitals of both women and men during the reproductive years. Smegma is made of sebum and skin cells and lubricates the foreskin and glans in men, and the clitoral hood and inner labia in women. It is rinsed off during normal bathing and does not cause cancer or any other health problems.


    Myth: "My uncle wasn't circumcised and he kept getting infections and had to be circumcised as an adult."


    Reality check: Medical advice may have promoted infection in uncircumcised males. A shocking number of doctors are uneducated about the normal development of the foreskin, and they (incorrectly) tell parents that they have to retract the baby's foreskin and wash inside it at every diaper change. Doing this tears the foreskin and the tissue (called synechia) that connects it to the head of the penis, leading to scarring and infection.


    Misinformation was especially prevalent during the 1950s and 60s, when most babies were circumcised and we didn't know as much about the care of the intact penis, which is why the story is always about someone's uncle. Doing this to a baby boy would be like trying to clean the inside of a baby girl's vagina with Q-tips at every diaper change. Rather than preventing problems, such practices would cause problems by introducing harmful bacteria. Remember that humans evolved from animals, so no body part that required special care would survive evolutionary pressures. The human genitals are wonderfully self-cleaning and require no special care.


    Myth: My son was diagnosed with phimosis and so had to be circumcised.


    Reality check: Phimosis means that the foreskin will not retract. Since children's foreskins are naturally not retractable, it is impossible to diagnose phimosis in a child. Any such diagnoses in infants are based on misinformation, and are often made in order to secure insurance coverage of circumcision in states in which routine infant circumcision is no longer covered.


    Even some adult men have foreskins that do not retract, but as long as it doesn't interfere with sexual intercourse, it is no problem at all, as urination itself cleans the inside of the foreskin (note that urine is sterile when leaving the body.)


    Phimosis can also be treated conservatively with a steroid cream and gentle stretching done by the man himself, should he so desire it, or, at worst, a slit on the foreskin, rather than total circumcision. (Ashfield 2003) These treatment decisions can and should be made by the adult man.


    Myth: Uncircumcised boys get more urinary tract infections (UTIs.)


    Reality check: This claim is based on one study that looked at charts of babies born in one hospital (Wiswell 1985). The study had many problems, including that it didn't accurately count whether or not the babies were circumcised, whether they were premature and thus more susceptible to infection in general, whether they were breastfed (breastfeeding protects against UTI), and if their foreskins had been forcibly retracted (which can introduce harmful bacteria and cause UTI) (Pisacane 1990). There have been many studies since which show either no decrease in UTI with circumcision, or else an increase in UTI from circumcision. Thus circumcision is not recommended to prevent UTI (Thompson 1990). Girls have higher rates of UTI than boys, and yet when a girl gets a UTI, she is simply prescribed antibiotics. The same treatment works for boys.


    Myth: Circumcision prevents HIV/AIDS.


    Reality check: Three studies in Africa several years ago that claimed that circumcision prevented AIDS and that circumcision was as effective as a 60% effective vaccine (Auvert 2005, 2006). These studies had many flaws, including that they were stopped before all the results came in. There have also been several studies that show that circumcision does not prevent HIV (Connolly 2008). There are many issues at play in the spread of STDs which make it very hard to generalize results from one population to another.


    In Africa, where the recent studies have been done, most HIV transmission is through male-female sex, but in the USA, it is mainly transmitted through blood exposure (like needle sharing) and male-male sex. Male circumcision does not protect women from acquiring HIV, nor does it protect men who have sex with men (Wawer 2009, Jameson 2009).


    What's worse, because of the publicity surrounding the African studies, men in Africa are now starting to believe that if they are circumcised, they do not need to wear condoms, which will increase the spread of HIV (Westercamp 2010). Even in the study with the most favorable effects of circumcision, the protective effect was only 60% - men would still have to wear condoms to protect themselves and their partners from HIV.


    In the USA, during the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s and 90s, about 85% of adult men were circumcised (much higher rates of circumcision than in Africa), and yet HIV still spread.


    It is important to understand, too, that the men in the African studies were adults and they volunteered for circumcision. Babies undergoing circumcision were not given the choice to decide for themselves.


    Myth: Circumcision is worth it because it can save lives.


    Reality check: Consider breast cancer: There is a 12% chance that a woman will get breast cancer in her lifetime. Removal of the breast buds at birth would prevent this, and yet no one would advocate doing this to a baby. It is still considered somewhat shocking when an adult woman chooses to have a prophylactic mastectomy because she has the breast cancer gene, yet this was a personal choice done based upon a higher risk of cancer. The lifetime risk of acquiring HIV is less than 2% for men, and can be lowered to near 0% through condom-wearing (Hall 2008). How, then, can we advocate prophylactic circumcision for baby boys?


    Science and data do not support the practice of infant circumcision. Circumcision does not preclude the use of the condom. The adult male should have the right to make the decision for himself and not have his body permanently damaged as a baby.
    Garbage. I didn't feel like reading it.

  26. #176

    Re: circumcision

    Myth: You have to circumcise the baby so that he will match his dad.


    Reality check: The major difference that boys notice is that dad's penis has hair, and is larger. When a boy notices the difference between his foreskin and his father's lack of one, just tell him, "When your father was born, they thought that you had to cut off the foreskin, but now we know better." Since when does parent/child bonding require a matching set of genitals? If it did, could mothers and sons bond, or fathers and daughters? The real issue at play here is protecting the father: if it is okay for his son to not be circumcised, then he did not have to be circumcised, and so he is missing something from his penis. It is not right to harm the child's body to spare the father's emotions.


    Myth: My husband is the one with the penis, so it is his choice.


    Reality check: If your husband is circumcised, he has no idea what having a foreskin is like, and he is likely operating from a psychological position of needing to believe that what was done to him was beneficial and important. (See here for an extended discussion of pre and post circumcised adult men and much more by Marilyn Milos, director of NOCIRC.) The baby is the one who is going to have to live with the decision for the rest of his life, not your husband. The baby will be the one who has to use the penis for urination and sex -- it should be his decision.


    Myth: Everyone is circumcised.


    Reality check: Actually, world-wide, only 30% of men are circumcised, and most of these men are Muslim (WHO 2007). Most modern, Westernized countries have rates well below 20%. In the United States about 25 years ago, around 85% of babies were circumcised. The rates have dropped substantially to 32% in 2009, according to a report by the Centers for Disease Control (El Becheraoui 2010).


    Myth: Circumcision is an important tradition that has been going on forever.


    Reality check: In the United States, circumcision wasn't popularized until Victorian times, when a few doctors began to recommend it to prevent children from masturbating. Dr. Kellogg (of Corn Flakes fame) advocated circumcision for pubescent boys and girls to stop masturbation: "A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anæsthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment... In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement" (Kellogg 1877). Circumcision caught on among the sex-negative Victorians, but only wealthy parents could afford it. In 1932, only 31% of men were circumcised; this peaked around 85% in 1980, and has been dropping ever since (Laumann 1997, Wallerstein 1980). Far from an ancient tradition, it was only popular in post-war America; think of it as "your parent's body mod."


    Myth: The other boys will make fun of him.


    Reality check: What other cosmetic surgeries will we perform on our children to prevent them from being teased? Should a "flat" girl get implants? What about the boy with a small penis? What surgery would be recommended for him? Circumcised babies are the minority now, and so intact will not be mocked. Plus, as our husbands say, "You just don't look at or comment on another man's penis in the locker room."


    Myth: Circumcision makes sex better for the woman.


    Reality check: The function of the foreskin for women in intercourse is to seal the natural lubrication inside the vagina and provide a gentle internal massaging action. The intact penis moves in and out of its foreskin, which provides a frictionless, rolling, gliding sensation. Intact men tend to make shorter strokes that keep their bodies in contact with the clitoris more, thus aiding female orgasm (O'Hara 1999). On the other hand, the circumcised penis functions like a piston during intercourse - the head of the penis actually scrapes the lubrication out of the vagina with each stroke. As the man thrusts, his skin rubs against the vaginal entrance, causing discomfort, and sometimes pain (O'Hara 1999, Bensley 2001). Far from making sex better for women, circumcision decreases female satisfaction.


    Myth: Women don't want to have sex with uncircumcised men.


    Reality check: In a landmark study of US women, 85% who had experienced both circumcised and intact men preferred sex with intact men. Sex with a circumcised man was associated with pain, dryness and difficulty reaching orgasm (O'Hara 1999). In another study, women were twice as likely to reach orgasm with an intact man (Bensley 2003). Even when a woman said she preferred a circumcised partner, she had less dryness and discomfort with intact men (O'Hara 1999).


    Myth: "Being circumcised doesn't affect my sex life."


    Reality check: Men who are circumcised are 60% more likely to have difficulty identifying and expressing their feelings, which can cause marital difficulties (Bollinger 2010). Circumcised men are a lot more likely to be diagnosed with erectile dysfunction, use drugs like Viagra, and to suffer from premature ejaculation (Bollinger 2010, Tang 2011). Men who were circumcised as adults experienced decreased sensation and decreased quality of erection, and both they and their partners experienced generally less satisfaction with sex (Kim 2007, Solinis 2007).


    Myth: "If I were any more sensitive, it would be a problem."


    Reality check: The foreskin contains several special structures that increase sexual pleasure, including the frenulum and ridged band (the end of the foreskin where it becomes internal), both of which are removed in circumcision. The LEAST sensitive parts of the foreskin are more sensitive than the MOST sensitive parts of the circumcised penis (Sorrells 2007). In other words, if you wanted to decrease a penis' sensitivity the most, circumcision would be the ideal surgery. The foreskin has nerves called fine-touch receptors which are clustered in the ridged band (Cold 1999). This type of nerve is also found in the lips and fingertips. To get an idea of the sensation these nerves provide, try this experiment: first lightly stroke your fingertip over the back of the other hand. Now stroke your fingertip over the palm of your hand. Feel the difference? That is the kind of sensation the foreskin provides, and the circumcised man is missing.


    It may feel like the penis is overly sensitive to a circumcised man because there is little sensation left to indicate excitement, leading to unexpected premature ejaculation (a common problem with circumcised young men). However, as circumcised penises age they become calloused and much less sensitive.


    No medical association in the world recommends routine infant circumcision. None.


    The American Academy of Pediatrics Policy Statement on Circumcision says:


    "Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision." (AAP 1999)


    The British Medical Association says:


    "[P]arental preference alone is not sufficient justification for performing a surgical procedure on a child." (BMA 2006)


    The Royal Australasian College of Physicians says:


    "After reviewing the currently available evidence, the RACP believes that the frequency of diseases modifiable by circumcision, the level of protection offered by circumcision and the complication rates of circumcision do not warrant routine infant circumcision in Australia and New Zealand." (RACP 2010)


    The Canadian Paediatric Society says:


    "Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed." (CPS 1996)


    The Royal Dutch Medical Association (KNMG - Netherlands) policy statement is wonderfully clear:


    "There is no convincing evidence that circumcision is useful or necessary in terms of prevention or hygiene... circumcision entails the risk of medical and psychological complications... Non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors conflicts with the child's right to autonomy and physical integrity." (KNMG 2010)


    Circumcision wastes money.


    Medicaid spends $198 million each year on routine infant circumcision in the 33 states that still pay for it, a procedure its own guidelines consider to be medically unnecessary. Private insurance programs are reimbursing an additional $677 million, raising prices for us all (Craig 2006.) In addition to the cost of circumcision itself, correcting its complications are said to double the cost, bringing the total bill to $1.75 billion each year. Is this what we should be spending money on during a recession and at a time when healthcare costs are skyrocketing?


    Circumcision violates the Hippocratic Oath to "First, do no harm."


    Doctors have an ethical duty to treat the patient by the most conservative means possible, but removing healthy tissue in the absence of any medical need absolutely harms the patient. In the case of routine infant circumcision, nothing was diseased, and thus nothing justifies its removal. Medical personnel who support infant circumcision in any way should reexamine their ethical duties to the child.


    Everyone has a right to bodily autonomy and self-determination.


    This is a fundamental tenet of international human rights law (UNESCO 2005). As babies cannot speak for themselves, they need special protection. Balancing the potential benefits of circumcision with the definite risks can be difficult decision, but the only person qualified to make this decision is the owner of the penis, as he is the one who is going to have to live with the results, not his parents.


    Parents' aesthetic preferences are not valid reasons for circumcision.


    If a mother thinks her daughter's nose is too big, should she force her to get a nose job? If a father prefers large breasts, can he force his daughter to get breast implants? If a woman prefers circumcised men, can she force her son to be circumcised?


    Even if you are fine with being circumcised, your son may not be.


    If you have never had a foreskin, you cannot possibly know what having one would feel like. You only know what it feels like to not have a foreskin. You cannot know now how your son will feel in 20 or 30 years. If you have your son circumcised, he may grow up to regret the decision you made for him, but circumcision is irreversible. (Yes, men can partially restore their foreskins, but it is difficult and the sensitive nerve endings are gone forever.) Leave the decision to your son. It is his penis. He deserves to decide for himself.


    The future


    Circumcision is ending with the generation being born now - only 32% of babies born in 2009 in the USA were circumcised. Boys born today who keep their foreskins are not going to be mocked, because they're in the majority, and because people now are more informed. Uncircumcised boys are not going to be scarred because their penises do not match their fathers'. The myths are dying - more and more people are realizing that leaving children's penises intact is better.

  27. #177

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    Myth: You have to circumcise the baby so that he will match his dad.


    Reality check: The major difference that boys notice is that dad's penis has hair, and is larger. When a boy notices the difference between his foreskin and his father's lack of one, just tell him, "When your father was born, they thought that you had to cut off the foreskin, but now we know better." Since when does parent/child bonding require a matching set of genitals? If it did, could mothers and sons bond, or fathers and daughters? The real issue at play here is protecting the father: if it is okay for his son to not be circumcised, then he did not have to be circumcised, and so he is missing something from his penis. It is not right to harm the child's body to spare the father's emotions.


    Myth: My husband is the one with the penis, so it is his choice.


    Reality check: If your husband is circumcised, he has no idea what having a foreskin is like, and he is likely operating from a psychological position of needing to believe that what was done to him was beneficial and important. (See here for an extended discussion of pre and post circumcised adult men and much more by Marilyn Milos, director of NOCIRC.) The baby is the one who is going to have to live with the decision for the rest of his life, not your husband. The baby will be the one who has to use the penis for urination and sex -- it should be his decision.


    Myth: Everyone is circumcised.


    Reality check: Actually, world-wide, only 30% of men are circumcised, and most of these men are Muslim (WHO 2007). Most modern, Westernized countries have rates well below 20%. In the United States about 25 years ago, around 85% of babies were circumcised. The rates have dropped substantially to 32% in 2009, according to a report by the Centers for Disease Control (El Becheraoui 2010).


    Myth: Circumcision is an important tradition that has been going on forever.


    Reality check: In the United States, circumcision wasn't popularized until Victorian times, when a few doctors began to recommend it to prevent children from masturbating. Dr. Kellogg (of Corn Flakes fame) advocated circumcision for pubescent boys and girls to stop masturbation: "A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anæsthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment... In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement" (Kellogg 1877). Circumcision caught on among the sex-negative Victorians, but only wealthy parents could afford it. In 1932, only 31% of men were circumcised; this peaked around 85% in 1980, and has been dropping ever since (Laumann 1997, Wallerstein 1980). Far from an ancient tradition, it was only popular in post-war America; think of it as "your parent's body mod."


    Myth: The other boys will make fun of him.


    Reality check: What other cosmetic surgeries will we perform on our children to prevent them from being teased? Should a "flat" girl get implants? What about the boy with a small penis? What surgery would be recommended for him? Circumcised babies are the minority now, and so intact will not be mocked. Plus, as our husbands say, "You just don't look at or comment on another man's penis in the locker room."


    Myth: Circumcision makes sex better for the woman.


    Reality check: The function of the foreskin for women in intercourse is to seal the natural lubrication inside the vagina and provide a gentle internal massaging action. The intact penis moves in and out of its foreskin, which provides a frictionless, rolling, gliding sensation. Intact men tend to make shorter strokes that keep their bodies in contact with the clitoris more, thus aiding female orgasm (O'Hara 1999). On the other hand, the circumcised penis functions like a piston during intercourse - the head of the penis actually scrapes the lubrication out of the vagina with each stroke. As the man thrusts, his skin rubs against the vaginal entrance, causing discomfort, and sometimes pain (O'Hara 1999, Bensley 2001). Far from making sex better for women, circumcision decreases female satisfaction.


    Myth: Women don't want to have sex with uncircumcised men.


    Reality check: In a landmark study of US women, 85% who had experienced both circumcised and intact men preferred sex with intact men. Sex with a circumcised man was associated with pain, dryness and difficulty reaching orgasm (O'Hara 1999). In another study, women were twice as likely to reach orgasm with an intact man (Bensley 2003). Even when a woman said she preferred a circumcised partner, she had less dryness and discomfort with intact men (O'Hara 1999).


    Myth: "Being circumcised doesn't affect my sex life."


    Reality check: Men who are circumcised are 60% more likely to have difficulty identifying and expressing their feelings, which can cause marital difficulties (Bollinger 2010). Circumcised men are a lot more likely to be diagnosed with erectile dysfunction, use drugs like Viagra, and to suffer from premature ejaculation (Bollinger 2010, Tang 2011). Men who were circumcised as adults experienced decreased sensation and decreased quality of erection, and both they and their partners experienced generally less satisfaction with sex (Kim 2007, Solinis 2007).


    Myth: "If I were any more sensitive, it would be a problem."


    Reality check: The foreskin contains several special structures that increase sexual pleasure, including the frenulum and ridged band (the end of the foreskin where it becomes internal), both of which are removed in circumcision. The LEAST sensitive parts of the foreskin are more sensitive than the MOST sensitive parts of the circumcised penis (Sorrells 2007). In other words, if you wanted to decrease a penis' sensitivity the most, circumcision would be the ideal surgery. The foreskin has nerves called fine-touch receptors which are clustered in the ridged band (Cold 1999). This type of nerve is also found in the lips and fingertips. To get an idea of the sensation these nerves provide, try this experiment: first lightly stroke your fingertip over the back of the other hand. Now stroke your fingertip over the palm of your hand. Feel the difference? That is the kind of sensation the foreskin provides, and the circumcised man is missing.


    It may feel like the penis is overly sensitive to a circumcised man because there is little sensation left to indicate excitement, leading to unexpected premature ejaculation (a common problem with circumcised young men). However, as circumcised penises age they become calloused and much less sensitive.


    No medical association in the world recommends routine infant circumcision. None.


    The American Academy of Pediatrics Policy Statement on Circumcision says:


    "Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision." (AAP 1999)


    The British Medical Association says:


    "[P]arental preference alone is not sufficient justification for performing a surgical procedure on a child." (BMA 2006)


    The Royal Australasian College of Physicians says:


    "After reviewing the currently available evidence, the RACP believes that the frequency of diseases modifiable by circumcision, the level of protection offered by circumcision and the complication rates of circumcision do not warrant routine infant circumcision in Australia and New Zealand." (RACP 2010)


    The Canadian Paediatric Society says:


    "Circumcision of newborns should not be routinely performed." (CPS 1996)


    The Royal Dutch Medical Association (KNMG - Netherlands) policy statement is wonderfully clear:


    "There is no convincing evidence that circumcision is useful or necessary in terms of prevention or hygiene... circumcision entails the risk of medical and psychological complications... Non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors conflicts with the child's right to autonomy and physical integrity." (KNMG 2010)


    Circumcision wastes money.


    Medicaid spends $198 million each year on routine infant circumcision in the 33 states that still pay for it, a procedure its own guidelines consider to be medically unnecessary. Private insurance programs are reimbursing an additional $677 million, raising prices for us all (Craig 2006.) In addition to the cost of circumcision itself, correcting its complications are said to double the cost, bringing the total bill to $1.75 billion each year. Is this what we should be spending money on during a recession and at a time when healthcare costs are skyrocketing?


    Circumcision violates the Hippocratic Oath to "First, do no harm."


    Doctors have an ethical duty to treat the patient by the most conservative means possible, but removing healthy tissue in the absence of any medical need absolutely harms the patient. In the case of routine infant circumcision, nothing was diseased, and thus nothing justifies its removal. Medical personnel who support infant circumcision in any way should reexamine their ethical duties to the child.


    Everyone has a right to bodily autonomy and self-determination.


    This is a fundamental tenet of international human rights law (UNESCO 2005). As babies cannot speak for themselves, they need special protection. Balancing the potential benefits of circumcision with the definite risks can be difficult decision, but the only person qualified to make this decision is the owner of the penis, as he is the one who is going to have to live with the results, not his parents.


    Parents' aesthetic preferences are not valid reasons for circumcision.


    If a mother thinks her daughter's nose is too big, should she force her to get a nose job? If a father prefers large breasts, can he force his daughter to get breast implants? If a woman prefers circumcised men, can she force her son to be circumcised?


    Even if you are fine with being circumcised, your son may not be.


    If you have never had a foreskin, you cannot possibly know what having one would feel like. You only know what it feels like to not have a foreskin. You cannot know now how your son will feel in 20 or 30 years. If you have your son circumcised, he may grow up to regret the decision you made for him, but circumcision is irreversible. (Yes, men can partially restore their foreskins, but it is difficult and the sensitive nerve endings are gone forever.) Leave the decision to your son. It is his penis. He deserves to decide for himself.


    The future


    Circumcision is ending with the generation being born now - only 32% of babies born in 2009 in the USA were circumcised. Boys born today who keep their foreskins are not going to be mocked, because they're in the majority, and because people now are more informed. Uncircumcised boys are not going to be scarred because their penises do not match their fathers'. The myths are dying - more and more people are realizing that leaving children's penises intact is better.
    Obsessed, a bit much? Rhetorical question.

  28. #178

    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by JaredT77 View Post
    Garbage. I didn't feel like reading it.
    See now you're just in denial, don't want to look at the facts about how circumcision or male genital mutilation is pointless and without actual benefits, and simply want validation for having your own genitals mutilated, and for mutilating your own son's genitals.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaredT77 View Post
    Obsessed, a bit much? Rhetorical question.
    Nope. I'm simply posting the facts about circumcision or male genital mutilation that completely refute all of the "benefits" that you posted above.
    Last edited by pole_smoker; Nov 25, 2014 at 10:46 PM.

  29. #179

    Re: circumcision

    [QUOTE=pole_smoker;277607]See now you're just in denial, don't want to look at the facts about how circumcision or male genital mutilation is pointless and without actual benefits, and simply want validation for having your own genitals mutilated, and for mutilating your own son's genitals.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaredT77 View Post
    Obsessed, a bit much? Rhetorical question.[/QUOTE
    Quote Originally Posted by JaredT77 View Post
    Nope. I'm simply posting the facts about circumcision or male genital mutilation that completely refute all of the "benefits" that you posted above.
    Nah, I just don't give a fuck about your meaningless debate like everyone else here.

  30. #180

    Re: circumcision

    ^
    Not true. There are lots of people on this site who are against male genital mutilation, and you'll see them in this thread and others.

    I've noticed that guys who mutilate their son's genitals just because it was done to them, do this means to validate the scars and mutilation on their genitals.
    If they suddenly learned to think for themselves, and realized their centuries old crime of male infant genital mutilation, they would have to own up to the fact that they are nothing more than promoters of child abuse, and not inflict the same abuse and mutilation onto their sons that was inflicted upon them without their choice. They have to find excuses to keep cutting in order to make mutilation okay in their superstitious minds.

 

 

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