US and Universal Healthcare

[losangeles4all]

Oh wow. So many are in support of theft.

I am sorry, I may be bisexual, and that means I lay down with both, but I am not a thief.

Obamacare equals theft, plain and simple. It absolutely doesn't matter who is going to receive what benefit and how bad they need it. What matters is that someone is going to be violently forced to pay for it.

And when you violently take what is not yours, you can bring about any excuse that makes you feel great, you're still remain a thief.

[æonpax]

<snip>

Now just hang on a minute BITCH! Put that vile liberal mind back in it's box.

I figured you were putting on a ruse. Criticizing a person’s opinion as “stupid” (which I did not say) is one thing. Calling another person a “bitch”, another.

You want it this way, you got it.

Now, you are just being yourself.

One. I did not insult you or call you any names like garrulous or unintelligent. I talked on the ideas. It is you who cannot respond to someone without insults, which shows a lack of intelligence, thoughtfulness, and class.

Look up garrulous, it means excessively talkative in a rambling, roundabout manner, esp. about trivial matters. Makes you cry, eh? and “unintelligent” was in reference to your post, not you. Dang, you wear your emotions on a sleeve, take everything too seriously, but that’s your problem.

Two. Systematically proving your point with government figures that everyone knows are skewed.

Who is “everybody?” Do you have a mouse in your pocket? Can you prove those figures are wrong? That’s a rhetorical question as you can’t.

Oh yeah. Right. That really makes your point. Anyone who believes government numbers carte blanche, shows just how either brainwashed or stupid they are. Which are you?

Government figures are quoted by both parties, are used in all academic research, are used in short/long range planning by all businesses, are taught in all schools from primary to college and are used by all state and local governments…and then there’s you. All things being equal, I’ll side with the former group I mentioned.

Three. If I did not visit your links, how would I have known that that government survey required people to voluntarily take part?

Which supposed “government survey” is that? Please post the link here. Too bad none of the links I posted contained a survey.

Now who's the unintelligent and uninformed one?

I wonder.

Who's liberal bias is showing when they ignore such an obvious fact that shows that I did read the survey.

What are you talking about? Please reference this supposed survey...the one that doesn't exist.

My arguments are all ideologically based?

Yes and in your case, far-right conservative.

Not by half.

You are correct, ALL of your opinions are far-right conservative. If you’d post some documented facts once in awhile, which you never do, maybe we could discuss them.

Does ideology play a part? DUH! As if it doesn't in your arguments?

Ideology affects most things political, but not all. One needs to be schooled as to where the line is drawn between dealing with people who use opinions as fact (like you do) and facts as they influence reality…a reality you just are not seeing.

You are trying to persuade people that your philosophy is right. I am trying to show people that mine is right. Stop restating the obvious.

You are playing up to your crowd of people using opinions. I have no problem with that. But when you wrongfully assume your opinions are facts, I am going to correct such misinformation.

I don't want to be informed?

Exactly.

So how is it that I was the one who gave you props that the 16,000 IRS agent number was wrong?

Because I proved my point using irrefutable FACTS. Ther was no way for you to wiggle out of it.

I listen. I learn. I make mistakes. I apologize. I give credit where credit is due. You on the other hand give no one credit but yourself. It must really be nice to be so perfect. Everybody has to learn from you and your sources.

Now you are playing the sympathy/emotional card and in doing that, sidetracking this issue.

I am sorry to burst your bubble, but the government lies about statistics all the time.

Prove it. Offer some proof that unequivocally proves that ALL government statistics and data are wrong or skewed. I’ll wait.

As I have said before, look at the unemployment statistics. For another thing to look at, the initial cost of Obamacare, before they passed it was $900 billion over 10 years. A few months ago, the CBO came out and said "nope. we were wrong. The cost is $1.8 trillion." (If you need sources look it up on google. it was covered by every news reporting agency. But in case you are too lazy to look it up, here: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...day-obamacare/. ABC news is not exactly a conservative organization.). This was back in March.

Excuse me but this link you provided say NOTHING about this subject. Besides that, it’s some guys opinion blog on ABC, not a researched news story.

Quietly, a few days ago, this came out: http://www.npr.org/2012/07/12/156659...estimates-rise. You still believe numbers the government tells you? Then you (general you, not you specifically aeon) are dumber than a bag of hammers. So try reading those facts. You say I am the one closed minded and living in my own little box. Let's see if you have the cajones to read those links from those liberal organizations.

Go to that site yoursself then look under that chart, the small print. What does it say? It is estimates based on the CBO….Do you know what the CBO is? Congressional Budget Office. Do you know that’s government statistics? The same statistics you claim are always wrong. Also, notice which party is using those stats? The Republicans. They are using stats you say that are always skewed? BTW, NPR is not liberal (except in your mind) and these stats have gone viral in the far-right blogosphere but are not being widely quoted, except by the right wing.

So. I have put up. Now F off with your rude behavior.

Cry me a river. I'll get you some tissue.

I don't prove all of my points, because I don't have the time all day to sit there and look up gotchas. I have a life to lead. I have proven several of my points in this and other postings. I'm sorry I don't meet your standard of having 5 sources to back up that "is" is actually a word.

You have no points, just wild generalizations you make based on the latest conservative spew. You don’t know how to support your opinions with facts but you do have excuses, lot’s of them. It really only takes me a few minutes to prepare a response but then again, part of my job is working online doing research so I do know all the little tricks using Google and other sources.

oh. and PS. I PM'ed you because I did not think you wanted to get called out publicly, but following your instructions : You owe dog62 an apology. Your post was rude and personal, without him getting personal to you first. You just hate it when people disagree with you and you can't handle it when people think you are not perfect, hence your posts to dog and me. Grow up little girl the world doesn't revolve around you.

There is a little saying, if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Listening to you whine about confrontation is almost amusing, as is your perpetual “victim” mode. I cut people slack in religious and political discussions because they are almost always, hot button topics. Shit happens . Besides, this is online. When I turn off the computer, these arguments cease to exist until I go back to that particular site.

And just a hint, one of the main reasons my ex is now an ex is because she had an attitude just like yours. She thinks her s don't stink. But she has no problem sitting on her fat ass all day using the kids child support money to barely squeak from one month to the next, instead of getting off her ass and getting a job. It is attitudes like hers and yours that have started the decline of this nation.

Good Grief. This does explain your misogyny though.

P.P.S. You can respond if you want, but this is my last response TO YOU on this thread and probably on any other.

Promise?

[æonpax]

I love this paragraph. <snip>

It doesn't take much to entertain you I see. Do you have any facts? Of course not. You ultra conservative types thrive on emotional rhetoric, not reality.

You didn't say much other than repeat the same talking points and nonsense I've heard from the looney right. Not one original thought from you. I realize that takes schooling beyond the 5th grade but I'm always hoping. You believe in the myths and lies perpetuated by the the ultra conservative right, without proof and on the flimsiest of evidence. You wear prejudice and ignorance like a badge of honor.

Recently, the GOP in Texas adopted a party platform rejecting the teaching of "Critical Thinking" skills. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...pFXW_blog.html Apparently, many members of the right have adopted that that long time ago. Critical thinking is thinking that questions assumptions and is a way of deciding whether a claim is always true, sometimes true, partly true, or false

Like the person before you, you bring no facts or logic to this argument. You spout your ideology, your opinions and your half-truths as if they were fact, which they just are not. Your anecdotal soliloquy reeks of untempered and self-centered, Calvinism. You blather talking points as if it were reality. They are not. Your convoluted thinking shows a particular lack of the same "critical thinking' skills, the conservative right fears.

I care for my fellow humans to a point where I will sacrifice what I have, for them. Sacrifice; a word unknown to your narrow-minded ilk. I will continue to call out people who lie and distort the facts for greed and political gain, like the conservative right is doing.

Yes, there are people who abuse the system, but there are far more people who are in pain that are being denied adequate health care for lack of insurance. All you and your pathetic group see are abusers.

Unlike you, I value the quality of human life and do what I can, through our government, to see to it that the virtues you have forsaken; Charity, mercy and kindness are not forgotten. If you want to call it whining, so be it.

[darkeyes]

Oh wow. So many are in support of theft.

I am sorry, I may be bisexual, and that means I lay down with both, but I am not a thief.

Obamacare equals theft, plain and simple. It absolutely doesn't matter who is going to receive what benefit and how bad they need it. What matters is that someone is going to be violently forced to pay for it.

And when you violently take what is not yours, you can bring about any excuse that makes you feel great, you're still remain a thief.

Hun..I call being taxed so my country's soldier boys can kill other countries soldier boys and civilians and we can bully lil poor countries weaker than ourselves and with whom my country's rich and powerful, their government skivvies and often even I disagree with, theft with menaces and almost as often murder.. just a lil affectation of mine.. not believing in violence and mayhem and bullying and talking about problems not imposing solutions.... on other hand, giving decent health care to all the people of a country I call altruism and compassion..and those who don't like it.. tough cheese... but u really should chill ya know.. ther will be plenty dosh around for American Insurers an' rich bastards to make ther killin' the way "Obamacare" is formatted... an' it will keep all ya premiums nice and high and ur medicine nice and expensive... unlike nice properly constituted National Health service.. imperfect but a bloody sight better than u have now and u will have in future.. but of course.. government has no business in ur business does it? Just business in other countries business..

Nev mind.. from tomoz I am in ur country.. will spread the good word and no doubt have a few differences of opinion with peeps who think like u...rather b considered thief than a bully and a murderin' sod ne day.. hav nice day..

[falcondfw]

"rich bastards"

Fran,

I know we will never agree on politics. And that is fine. Most of the time you are respectful (we all get passionate every now and then) and state your case in a classy and dignified way.

However, your statement above is what I think lies at the heart of our differences.

I simply don't see a problem with becoming rich, as long as it is done legally. In fact, I encourage the drive, determination, and persistence that it takes. Doing it illegally is another matter and not something I approve of.

If you have a problem with someone working hard and making themselves rich, well, then I am sorry. I guess you believe in "From each, according to his ability, to each according to his need." I don't. I believe there should be safety nets, but except for that, I believe in "to each according to his willingness and ability to get up off his backside and work his butt off.".

And I hope you have a safe flight over and truly enjoy your time over here. Welcome.

[darkeyes]

"rich bastards"

Fran,

I know we will never agree on politics. And that is fine. Most of the time you are respectful (we all get passionate every now and then) and state your case in a classy and dignified way.

However, your statement above is what I think lies at the heart of our differences.

I simply don't see a problem with becoming rich, as long as it is done legally. In fact, I encourage the drive, determination, and persistence that it takes. Doing it illegally is another matter and not something I approve of.

If you have a problem with someone working hard and making themselves rich, well, then I am sorry. I guess you believe in "From each, according to his ability, to each according to his need." I don't. I believe there should be safety nets, but except for that, I believe in "to each according to his willingness and ability to get up off his backside and work his butt off.".

And I hope you have a safe flight over and truly enjoy your time over here. Welcome.

I have no problem with peeps working hard and making themselves wealthy.. I do have problems about how they do it the ruthlessness with which they stand on the toes of those who are less able to make a buck or 10.. the selfishness and reluctance to pay their dues to society, resentment at paying tax, and how arrogant they can be and their loathing of the lower classes being provided a decent life, and having society give them a helping hand and providing for them decent health care..

I dont say any of this out of ignorance entirely, Falcon babes.. I do have decent life and am pretty well off.. 2 ver good salaries help with that.. but I was also married for 4 years to a guy who was loaded.. land, big house, holiday homes, property he rented out, foreign trips wenever we wanted them, no cheap clothes, shoes, plenty of nice jewellery perfumerie etc etc.. horses, nice little boat on the Clyde and loadsa even wealthier posh nob many of whom were slimy "friends"... while much of how I feel is my upbringing by me mum and especially me dad.. I learned more about the attitudes of many, not all I grant you, but more than is good for any society, of the rich and powerful from that 4 years than even me dad even dreamed of in his worst nightmares.. and trust me.. for some time I played at my beliefs, and while I still held them, they became more and more superficial and I smacked ever more of hypocrisy...

I was sucked into a world of greed and parasitism I am now ashamed of ever having been a part... me x hubbie wasn't like that.. ver liberal.. very nice.. very generous... what u in the states would call old money.. but it is easy to become what we hate.. I found that out and when it ended... it took me a long time to wash off that stink.. me mother in law on other hand married me hubbie's dad who was the 1 with the money.. she came from relatively poor background and revelled in it.. she became 1 of the worst.. hated me cos I came from the "poor" (I didn't.. middle class girl, good school, middle class district of Edinburgh.. but poor..that's how she put it) and loved bullying, intimidating and treating like shite those who didn't have what she had married.. she btw was the daughter of a postman.. nowt 2 be shamed of.. but it wos summat she wud never talk about... 'cept to say that her dad was better than my dad cos my dad was "only the son of a coal miner". Fact that he had pulled himself up gotten professional qulifications because of his dad's sacrifices and was very successful didnt matter.. he was son of a coal miner, a socialist and that made me and peeps llike me scum and not good enough for her precious son...

God.. was I well out of it...

The trouble is with ur philosophy...the rich and powerful as a breed put barrier after barrier in the way of even the most able of the less well off from raising themselves up.. some manage despite those barriers.. more in the US than here but these barriers exist in the US too.. when married I met a few of such American people and the contempt they have for those who are their employees, those who have less than themselves, even those of "old money".. I got a glimpse of their greed and what they will do to keep down people like you and I... so I am not speaking entirely out of me arse by having no experience of such peeps.. I have seen and listened to them.. and I didn't like it one jot even as their bad smell was contaminating me and slowly turning me like them!

Why else in real terms have the richest 1% grabbed more of the national wealth in both our countries over the last 30 years and the poor have become poorer while the middle classes haven't advanced their share of the pot? Cos of the altruism of the rich and the sloth of every1 else? I think not somehow... I can say "rich bastards" with impunity.. Ive both lived among them and through me husband, was one of them...

And I wont enjoy the flight sorry 2 say.. I hate flying and it scares me silly!!! Kate and the kids luff it tho.. I will sit head in hands trembling cos of the one thing that really scares the shit out of me!! With a few lil cognacs to stop me creatin' a panic an potential disaster!! tee hee!!! But I am looking forward to it ta muchly... haven't seen me m8 in years and will b good 2 give 'er huggle and share time wiv 'er properly..

[kutag]

Thank God and the Labor party for Medicare here in Australia.
Fuck the health funds,put the money into Government run
Hospitals.

[darkeyes]

Thank God and the Labor party for Medicare here in Australia.
Fuck the health funds,put the money into Government run
Hospitals.

Huge kissie an huggle 2 u Kutag!!!!

[falcondfw]

Fran,

I hope I caught you before you take off. There is, over here, something called dramamine. It is for motion sickness, if that is your problem. You should be able to get something similar. You should be able to get it at any Chemists shop. If not, I would suggest a good scotch on the rocks or two to relax your mind and body.

And I understand what you are saying and agree to a degree. Those who have the means to do so should give back out of the goodness of their heart. The other thing is that yes, there are some real scoundrels out there (Bernie Madhoff) who got rich the wrong way. Where we part company is that I believe there are far more doing it the right way than the number doing it the wrong way. You seem to believe the reverse. Those who do it the wrong way need to be punished severely.

As for why the top 1% keep getting richer it is simple math. If you have somebody invest 100,000 and they make 20%, they have just made 20,000. If you have somebody invest 1,000 and they make 20%, they have only made 200. That is why the rich get richer. It takes money to make money, unless your name is Hillary Clinton and you can have friends who give you information that makes $100,000 on a $2,000 investment in Cattle Futures (yes, she really did).

And yes, some of the rich do put up barriers for others to get rich, because they want to keep the power they have, and money is power. But again, those are the ones doing it wrong and they need to be prosecuted and those barriers overturned.

Do you know what insider trading is? Forgive me if you do, but for those who don't, it is when a friend, who is an officer in a company, gives you a tip that his company is about to do something noteworthy and send their stock through the roof. Based on this tip, you purchase 1000 shares of that company stock. The event happens, the price goes through the roof, you sell the stock, and make a huge profit. In the USA (and I imagine in many other countries) that is called insider trading and it is very illegal. You can get a HUGE fine and a LONG time in jail for it . . . unless you are a member of Congress. For congressmen and their aids, it is completely legal for them to do it. THAT is wrong. Congress has exempted themselves from the laws many of us citizens have to follow (including Obamacare). THAT needs to be stopped yesterday. If the law is good enough for us, it should be good enough for them.

Honestly, your ex sounds like a really good guy by the way you talk about him. I know it is none of my business, but I hope you will PM me sometime and tell me why it ended. Even though people disagree on things, you are a perfect example of disagreeing with respect. You always treat me fairly and honorably when we disagree. With that attitude and the way you describe him, I am surprised it ended.

[DuckiesDarling]

You know I'm glad that those of you from other countries are happy with your healthcare system, but Americans are not happy with what we have going on here. There are numerous problems all around from the not wanting government in every facet of our lives when we are proud of the freedoms we have enjoyed from that interference to the just outright partizan political standpoint.

Several people think they know what actually goes on in America as far as our benefit systems and ability to get help, but you really don't know. Not until you have been through it. Not until you have reached the point where you try to get help and are told you are just outside the income limits. This isn't new. It's been going on ever since there have been income limits. I can remember when I was a child and International Harvester went on strike, a place my dad had worked for 10 years, my mom was stay at home with three kids, brother was a tiny baby. We had moved to Elizabethtown to be near my mom's family and had just built a house on the property my parents still live now. My grandmother had deeded over 28 acres to my parents to build the house they would pay on for the next 30 years. Strike meant no income, unless you walked picket line and that was a check for $60 a week. So they went from $400 a week to $60 a week with no reduction in bills, the garden yielded enough we had green beans for supper one night, some of that $60 went in gas tank so he could get to Louisville to continue walking picket and finally they sucked down their pride and went to try and get some food stamps to help feed their children. They were told to sell the land. The only thing they had that was worth hanging on to for their future but they needed to sell it to satisfy the aid worker. They refused and we tightened our belts and I remember my parents going without eating to make sure the kids had enough. That is the reality people in America deal with daily.

They constantly struggle to maintain dignity in the face of people who just have to follow rigid limits. That's what they have been struggling for the past 10 years or so to come up with something better than our current system. Medicare has long been in the red as people live longer, what's the solution.. lol read Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery" maybe. But for now we have more going out than we have going in but we have a refusal of some to omg raise taxes on the richer people cause someone might not vote for them, we have Warren Buffett stepping up and going hey.. tax me. It's not right my rate is less than my secretary. I have no problem with rich people, I hope to be one someday, lol, but I do want to have equal taxation as well as representation.

The medical industry has long been about money and less about the actual care of patients. In the Medicaid system, doctors who accept patients get a stipend each month on each patient on the books of their practice whether or not they have actually seen the patient. Yes, even if they haven't seen they patient. Then they get money when they do see the patient. See the problem? Yes, they pay less to the doctors than a private insurance company would for the same service but they also pay for services no other insurance company would.

This bill does some things right, it makes sense to not charge for preventative care with any copays and deductibles as more people would go get screened and checked and more lives would be saved if diseases were caught earlier. But a lot of insurance companies already offered this and it only affects those that have insurance now. Is it going to make it easier for people like me to obtain healthcare even with my severe prexisting condition? Yeah... but will it help me pay for the insurance each month? Or will it kick me into the bracket where I actually get help? From all I can find at this point, No. I will be fined if I don't get insurance by 2014.. big whoop I'll have it by December 2013 as I will qualify for Medicare Part B, they have already told me I get help with the premiums assuming I don't win the lottery betweeen now and then. But what about the many Americans who already make the choice to gamble and not have insurance, it's never been compulsory like car insurance and most get by without it. If an emergency crops up there are ERs and most hospitals have a program that will let you qualify for help on medical facility charges on a sliding scale, but doctors and radioligists will still need to be paid. A standard doctor bill for ER is around $250-300 even if they just come in and say hello. Standard for ER facility is anywhere from $500-$1200 depending on tests and anything else that went on. Any pills handed to you are charged at a high rate and if it is a pill you could normally get without a prescription.. like Tylenol.. yeah it's a huge charge that most insurance companies won't even consider as part of an inpatient stay at hospital.

Having worked for Anthem, I have more than a passing clue how the insurance system works here and how it interacts with Medicare and how secondary and tertiary payers are affecting the amount that Americans with insurance are are out of pocket. I also know how devestating recieving a bill in the mail when you have no insurance or your insurance has declined to pay for a myriad of reasons that leave you liable for the charges. Part of the bill that does something right keeps insurance companies from combing over your application for coverage in the hopes they can terminate insurance and not have to pay the bill. That part rocks, but it doesn't help again those that have No Insurance.

We aren't England or Australia or New Zealand or Canada and thank the Goddess for that, we are struggling to find a solution to healthcare that will be acceptable to all Americans and we are trying to do it with the eyes of the world upon us and offering their opinions about things they really have no clue about. This is America.. we live here we struggle to survive here and we will get through this and get people back to working. The unemployment rate hasn't dropped, it's just not counting the millions of Americans who no longer qualify for unemployment benefits so they don't get "tracked". Any number posted by anyone can be skewed to prove a certain point about things but it doesn't change the poverty level here, now does it... and it doesn't change the many many many who are now living below that limit and still trying to hang on to houses and families.

More and more people are turning to gardens even in the windowsill of apartments and houses without land so they can try to help just a bit on food costs. We are told everyday to eat healthier but the cost of healthy food is always higher. Know why so many children in America are becoming obese?? Hamburger $.99 Salad $4.99. That's why. Which would you choose if you had to feed your children? Not so easy when you look at it that way now is it?

So I understand both sides of the issue here as far as Americans go, I don't like the law but something is necessary. So yeah back to Shirley Jackson... maybe she had the right idea. But who do we include? The very young, the very old? The middle class and the rich or just the poor. Seems the poor are the only class that is actually increasing in size and it's not because they reproduce like rabbits, it's because the economy has reached flush the toilet mode.

[falcondfw]

DD,

WOW! Nice Post! I agree with almost everything you say in it.

I did not know about the stipend for unseen patients, but it does not surprise me. And yes, there are a lot of things in the healthcare system that need fixing. But this government takeover is not the way. As I have said before, this bill is not about healthcare. It is about control and who pays for everything. That is why they are forcing everyone to buy insurance. If they can force you to buy insurance today, based on the fact it is good for everybody, why can they not force you to buy broccoli tomorrow, because it is good for everybody?

What happened to your parents is similar to what happened to my mom and step-dad. She basically almost had to divorce him so he could get the assistance he needed from medicrap and SSDI (he had polio when he was younger and it caused all kinds of health problems later in life). Finally, an attorney took pity on them and helped them through the process and he got most of the help he needed through his later years.

As for Warren Buffoon, I used to respect him. Not anymore. He comes and says "Tax me more. Tax me more.". Meanwhile Berkshire Hathaway owed (they may have paid it by now) several years of back taxes and his lawyers are fighting the IRS on it. And I am not talking about disputed charges that were found in an audit. I am talking about regular quarterly income taxes. Talk about hypocrisy! And anyone who lives here knows that if you don't feel you have paid enough in taxes, you can simply write a check and mail it to Uncle Sam. They have no problems taking extra money. When he stops the BS, then I might regain respect for him, but I doubt it.

[gen11]

All I'll say is that you who think the "health care bill" is about health care fully deserve what you're going to get. The intent of all those 2000 pages, including the provision that allows the federal government direct access to all private bank accounts in the contry, including the right to withdraw funds; that authorizes a "civilian defense force" the size and power of the military (Third Reich Brownshirts?) and other almost-incomprehensible violations of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, is to "transform America" into a socialist nation.

I hope your beaks are nice and cozy-warm in Obama's nice sunny sand while your butts are sticking up in the coming windstorm of government takeover of all your fundimental rights.

[darkeyes]

Fran,

I hope I caught you before you take off. There is, over here, something called dramamine. It is for motion sickness, if that is your problem. You should be able to get something similar. You should be able to get it at any Chemists shop. If not, I would suggest a good scotch on the rocks or two to relax your mind and body.

And I understand what you are saying and agree to a degree. Those who have the means to do so should give back out of the goodness of their heart. The other thing is that yes, there are some real scoundrels out there (Bernie Madhoff) who got rich the wrong way. Where we part company is that I believe there are far more doing it the right way than the number doing it the wrong way. You seem to believe the reverse. Those who do it the wrong way need to be punished severely.

As for why the top 1% keep getting richer it is simple math. If you have somebody invest 100,000 and they make 20%, they have just made 20,000. If you have somebody invest 1,000 and they make 20%, they have only made 200. That is why the rich get richer. It takes money to make money, unless your name is Hillary Clinton and you can have friends who give you information that makes $100,000 on a $2,000 investment in Cattle Futures (yes, she really did).

And yes, some of the rich do put up barriers for others to get rich, because they want to keep the power they have, and money is power. But again, those are the ones doing it wrong and they need to be prosecuted and those barriers overturned.

Do you know what insider trading is? Forgive me if you do, but for those who don't, it is when a friend, who is an officer in a company, gives you a tip that his company is about to do something noteworthy and send their stock through the roof. Based on this tip, you purchase 1000 shares of that company stock. The event happens, the price goes through the roof, you sell the stock, and make a huge profit. In the USA (and I imagine in many other countries) that is called insider trading and it is very illegal. You can get a HUGE fine and a LONG time in jail for it . . . unless you are a member of Congress. For congressmen and their aids, it is completely legal for them to do it. THAT is wrong. Congress has exempted themselves from the laws many of us citizens have to follow (including Obamacare). THAT needs to be stopped yesterday. If the law is good enough for us, it should be good enough for them.

Honestly, your ex sounds like a really good guy by the way you talk about him. I know it is none of my business, but I hope you will PM me sometime and tell me why it ended. Even though people disagree on things, you are a perfect example of disagreeing with respect. You always treat me fairly and honorably when we disagree. With that attitude and the way you describe him, I am surprised it ended.

Am not going to get into big row 'bout it Falcon.. well I could but it's too near me hols.. maybe wen I get back.. an me hols r sacrosanct.. mite pop in from time 2 time but will b much 2 busy enjoyin' mesel so u will have 2 do wivout me for the most part.. but u we know how each other feels... just think how I feel is nearer the mark.. u want an argy bargy bout it u will have 2 wait till I get back in August!!!

As 2 why my marriage ended was down to me being a cow, selfishness, need, boredom, "smelling" a lot and a girl called Lynette about whom I blogged recently u may remember.. Brian is an angel.. luffly man I think the world of and wish I could have made him happy. Wasn't to be and I hate meself for it.. no need 2 say much more but have written of it in forums from time to time, so no need for a pm..... but without him in me life, I could theorise and rant and rave 'bout the rich, but would have no experience of ever having been.. I have so much more to thank him for but that in some ways is the most important thing.. still see him a lot btw and dine with him quite frequently.. was also invited to his wedding much to the chagrin of his mum... and he was at mine to Kate.. yes, I still love the bugger dearly and he me I think... which is nice..

[falcondfw]

Am not going to get into big row 'bout it Falcon.. well I could but it's too near me hols.. maybe wen I get back.. an me hols r sacrosanct.. mite pop in from time 2 time but will b much 2 busy enjoyin' mesel so u will have 2 do wivout me for the most part.. but u we know how each other feels... just think how I feel is nearer the mark.. u want an argy bargy bout it u will have 2 wait till I get back in August!!!

As 2 why my marriage ended was down to me being a cow, selfishness, need, boredom, "smelling" a lot and a girl called Lynette about whom I blogged recently u may remember.. Brian is an angel.. luffly man I think the world of and wish I could have made him happy. Wasn't to be and I hate meself for it.. no need 2 say much more but have written of it in forums from time to time, so no need for a pm..... but without him in me life, I could theorise and rant and rave 'bout the rich, but would have no experience of ever having been.. I have so much more to thank him for but that in some ways is the most important thing.. still see him a lot btw and dine with him quite frequently.. was also invited to his wedding much to the chagrin of his mum... and he was at mine to Kate.. yes, I still love the bugger dearly and he me I think... which is nice..

I don't want to "row" with you Fran. I think there is a lot we can agree on, as well as some disagreement, but all friendly like. Besides, you are right. Everyone should enjoy their vacation time.

And even if you don't enjoy the flight, the scotch might help it go easier. lol. Safe trip to you and all.

I am truly sorry about your marriage. Glad you two still remained friends, but don't beat yourself up for it. You made mistakes. We all do. Seems like you have learned pretty well from them and that is the most important thing.

I do hope you will pop in from time to time to tell us how vacation is going. Don't know where you will be, but I hope you get to do some sightseeing. There is a lot to see in the USA. Fun, as well as historical and cultural stuff to see and do.

Just curious, could you be coming to the US for vacation at this particular time because the Olympics start over there shortly and you want to be absolutely nowhere near that madhouse and the hordes of people? lol

[losangeles4all]

Hun..I call being taxed so my country's soldier boys can kill other countries soldier boys and civilians and we can bully lil poor countries weaker than ourselves and with whom my country's rich and powerful, their government skivvies and often even I disagree with, theft with menaces and almost as often murder.. just a lil affectation of mine.. not believing in violence and mayhem and bullying and talking about problems not imposing solutions.... on other hand, giving decent health care to all the people of a country I call altruism and compassion..and those who don't like it.. tough cheese... but u really should chill ya know.. ther will be plenty dosh around for American Insurers an' rich bastards to make ther killin' the way "Obamacare" is formatted... an' it will keep all ya premiums nice and high and ur medicine nice and expensive... unlike nice properly constituted National Health service.. imperfect but a bloody sight better than u have now and u will have in future.. but of course.. government has no business in ur business does it? Just business in other countries business..

Nev mind.. from tomoz I am in ur country.. will spread the good word and no doubt have a few differences of opinion with peeps who think like u...rather b considered thief than a bully and a murderin' sod ne day.. hav nice day..

I don't understand your language, is this English? I am not a native speaker, but consider myself pretty fluent, - and yet, I don't understand your writing. "Sod ne day"? Are you Vietnamese? Can you put that in English?

Anyway, what does this have to do with murdering people in other countries? Do you think that there is some kind of "all or nothing" deal, where if you reject theft, then you must love murder? But, since you brought it up, no, I do not approve of any wars, nor of any other disgusting things you have brought up in your response. Is my position not logical?

NO to a theft, NO to a murder? Doesn't belong together, you think?

Ah, I think I might have an idea. You are thinking in terms of two political parties! D vs. R! Seriously? How old are you? That's right, that is the reason those two choices are offered, because once you for one of them, you're against another! And the way they were created was that each has some immoral propositions, how else could they get you to support unsupportable?

No, I am not supporting any party. Why does it even have to be about party?

I said, I don't approve of theft.
You said: "giving decent health care to all the people of a country I call altruism and compassion"
Sure. G I V I N G. Not violent extortion. It has to be voluntary.
Example: Someone attacks a woman, cuts her kidneys out, all to save his loved one.
According to your statement quoted above, this is altruism and compassion, since you seem to not make any difference between voluntary giving and violent extortion.

You see? Surely not what you meant, right?

[void()]

sod is English slang meant as derogatory. ne is a text communication contraction for any. In effect then she is saying rather be accused of theft than murder, any day. Really not difficult to comprehend once you start. If you'd like I could really confuse you via speaking three different Punjabi dialects at once.

[darkeyes]

I don't understand your language, is this English? I am not a native speaker, but consider myself pretty fluent, - and yet, I don't understand your writing. "Sod ne day"? Are you Vietnamese? Can you put that in English?

Anyway, what does this have to do with murdering people in other countries? Do you think that there is some kind of "all or nothing" deal, where if you reject theft, then you must love murder? But, since you brought it up, no, I do not approve of any wars, nor of any other disgusting things you have brought up in your response. Is my position not logical?

NO to a theft, NO to a murder? Doesn't belong together, you think?

Ah, I think I might have an idea. You are thinking in terms of two political parties! D vs. R! Seriously? How old are you? That's right, that is the reason those two choices are offered, because once you for one of them, you're against another! And the way they were created was that each has some immoral propositions, how else could they get you to support unsupportable?

No, I am not supporting any party. Why does it even have to be about party?

I said, I don't approve of theft.
You said: "giving decent health care to all the people of a country I call altruism and compassion"
Sure. G I V I N G. Not violent extortion. It has to be voluntary.
Example: Someone attacks a woman, cuts her kidneys out, all to save his loved one.
According to your statement quoted above, this is altruism and compassion, since you seem to not make any difference between voluntary giving and violent extortion.

You see? Surely not what you meant, right?

It's easy when u think it through, hun.. my point? I like paying tax... for the right reasons.. reasons to do with the betterment of humankind.. I do not like paying tax for their killing and for the destruction of life.. I am a pacifist.. and paying tax for a health service for the good of all is both altruistic and fine thing.. I am no Christian but I suspect Christ would approve... paying tax for warfare is an evil I loathe because there are those who lust after power and to be bigger than the the next person and intimidate and bully them into their will.. there is no immoral purpose in creating a health system for the good of all.. possibly its operation and funding can be bad but not evil I think..there is certainly nothing inherently bad about the purpose..and if it is for the good of all then all must pay that can afford to through the taxation or such system as exists for the service supply.. it is for them that can't that we pay that little bit extra...at least where properly constituted health services exists.. who knows when we too will fall on hard times to need that service.. and if we fall on hard times we are more likely to need that service.. so it is insurance for us and our families too....there is a little good if anything in spending billions on the war machinery of our countries.. they are evil in intent and purpose.. I will gladly pay for the good of others, not for their destruction simply because my country's government and rich and powerful and media don't like their government, governmental and/or religious systems or them very much..

There is nothing violent or extortionate about paying for systems and services as decided by electorate or government.. they are expected to provide services or arrage for their provision.. these must be paid for.. we may not like it and disagree with it but we live in so called democratic systems and that's life.. I hate parts of my tax being put to a military purpose and quite a few other things, but that's the price we pay for living in the systems we do.. if u don't like it u try and do something about it.. that's what I do and not only by voting every few years either...

[falcondfw]

LosAngeles,

Fran is from Scotland. They speak English very well over there. Just a different kind of English. Because she is from a different country, when she throws in slang from her country and sms text abbreviations, it can be difficult for us to understand. If we do the same things, it is hard for her to understand sometimes too, I am sure.

But if we try hard enough, we can get through it and understand.

[darkeyes]

LosAngeles,

Fran is from Scotland. They speak English very well over there. Just a different kind of English. Because she is from a different country, when she throws in slang from her country and sms text abbreviations, it can be difficult for us to understand. If we do the same things, it is hard for her to understand sometimes too, I am sure.

But if we try hard enough, we can get through it and understand.

Who's a lil smart arse then, hey Falcon??

[losangeles4all]

Much better. I can understand what you saying now.

I guess, I have to agree, that if you accept that you must pay taxes if your government requires it, then you accept that your taxes directly fund the bombs.

I, on the other hand, do not accept that. And, I don't vote. Voting, is an immoral thing to do, if you think about it, especially, for a pacifist. And no, I am not a great moralist either, but, I understand few big, cornerstone good and bad "do"s and "don't"s.

Speaking of a pacifist, I doubt you're one. Because, a pacifist cannot advocate for violence. But you do. Even if that is a consequence of your acceptance of your taxes, in effect, you still do. Basically, you are consenting, that there be a violent jack boot at my door, if I don't pay my taxes. You do know that the tax compliance is enforced by violence, right? A pacifist, cannot consent to violence. A pacifist insists on voluntary action, and may-be a defense against an aggression, but many pacifists even go as far as insisting on non-defense.

The bombs, you do not like, I get it. But, the forceful payments to healthcare, you approve. You, personally, think that such healthcare is a great idea, and, you have your arguments to support your conclusion. And so, you gladly pay "a little extra" for such system to exist. Yet, you have no problem sending a jack-booted thug to shake-up those who have a different opinion. Some kind of pacifist, if you ask me.

It then becomes interesting, what is the ground for you not liking of the military meddling in foreign lands? If they do not comply "our ideas", which we think are great, then we should violently force them to comply, right? For instance, we would allow any of their people to be taken care in "our" hospitals. This great and passionate act on our part, already gives us the moral right to demand payments from all of them. Or, we have an idea that they all must sell their oil for our currencies only. We like this idea, and we have our arguments of why we think that the world would be better off this way. So, when Saddam Hussein refused to spend the national treasure of Iraq on earning US dollars, and demanded gold, the US had sent the soldiers to demand compliance. First time it happened, he couldn't find enough courage and backed out. The soldiers then let him live. The second time he did that, the US literally ripped his head off.

When Lybian Gadaffi decided that the interests of several African nations were different from the interests of US and UK bankers, he served as a major organizing force to bring those African nations to an agreement on their own currency, the gold Dinar. Him personally, would lose a great deal of power were that agreement actually implemented. Yet, he insisted. So, the US and UK bankers, being in a strong disagreement with his vision for the future of Africa not being enslaved by Anglo's fractional reserve banking, decided they have a moral right to demand compliance. They sent in "the patriots" and alas, ole Gaddaffi got raped with a dirty rusted pipe before he got shot.

If you like the idea of forcing other people into compliance with the ideas that you like, you shouldn't really have that much dislike of military action in foreign lands. It is all the same principle, really. I mean, think of it, yes, may-be Saddam and Gaddaffi did think that the ideas of US and UK bankers were bad, but what really mattered was that the US and UK bankers really believed that their ideas were great, and it was that (and your and mine taxes) which gave them the right (and the might) to force the compliance.

sed, tamen diversis, nos suffragium

[falcondfw]

Who's a lil smart arse then, hey Falcon??

Dear Fran,

I was merely trying to explain the situation to LA. <-- He says in a totally innocent voice.
Besides, we Scots (even part Scots) have to try to stick together and help each other out.
ok. yeah. There was a bit of a smart ass in the last sentence. And this surprises you how?

[falcondfw]

Much better. I can understand what you saying now.

I guess, I have to agree, that if you accept that you must pay taxes if your government requires it, then you accept that your taxes directly fund the bombs.

I, on the other hand, do not accept that. And, I don't vote. Voting, is an immoral thing to do, if you think about it, especially, for a pacifist. And no, I am not a great moralist either, but, I understand few big, cornerstone good and bad "do"s and "don't"s.

Speaking of a pacifist, I doubt you're one. Because, a pacifist cannot advocate for violence. But you do. Even if that is a consequence of your acceptance of your taxes, in effect, you still do. Basically, you are consenting, that there be a violent jack boot at my door, if I don't pay my taxes. You do know that the tax compliance is enforced by violence, right? A pacifist, cannot consent to violence. A pacifist insists on voluntary action, and may-be a defense against an aggression, but many pacifists even go as far as insisting on non-defense.

The bombs, you do not like, I get it. But, the forceful payments to healthcare, you approve. You, personally, think that such healthcare is a great idea, and, you have your arguments to support your conclusion. And so, you gladly pay "a little extra" for such system to exist. Yet, you have no problem sending a jack-booted thug to shake-up those who have a different opinion. Some kind of pacifist, if you ask me.

It then becomes interesting, what is the ground for you not liking of the military meddling in foreign lands? If they do not comply "our ideas", which we think are great, then we should violently force them to comply, right? For instance, we would allow any of their people to be taken care in "our" hospitals. This great and passionate act on our part, already gives us the moral right to demand payments from all of them. Or, we have an idea that they all must sell their oil for our currencies only. We like this idea, and we have our arguments of why we think that the world would be better off this way. So, when Saddam Hussein refused to spend the national treasure of Iraq on earning US dollars, and demanded gold, the US had sent the soldiers to demand compliance. First time it happened, he couldn't find enough courage and backed out. The soldiers then let him live. The second time he did that, the US literally ripped his head off.

When Lybian Gadaffi decided that the interests of several African nations were different from the interests of US and UK bankers, he served as a major organizing force to bring those African nations to an agreement on their own currency, the gold Dinar. Him personally, would lose a great deal of power were that agreement actually implemented. Yet, he insisted. So, the US and UK bankers, being in a strong disagreement with his vision for the future of Africa not being enslaved by Anglo's fractional reserve banking, decided they have a moral right to demand compliance. They sent in "the patriots" and alas, ole Gaddaffi got raped with a dirty rusted pipe before he got shot.

If you like the idea of forcing other people into compliance with the ideas that you like, you shouldn't really have that much dislike of military action in foreign lands. It is all the same principle, really. I mean, think of it, yes, may-be Saddam and Gaddaffi did think that the ideas of US and UK bankers were bad, but what really mattered was that the US and UK bankers really believed that their ideas were great, and it was that (and your and mine taxes) which gave them the right (and the might) to force the compliance.

sed, tamen diversis, nos suffragium

Where do you get this stuff?
The first gulf war happened to free the people of Kuwait who Saddam had invaded illegally.
And the US and the UK have not invaded Libya militarily since WWII.

[losangeles4all]

Where do you get this stuff?
The first gulf war happened to free the people of Kuwait who Saddam had invaded illegally.
And the US and the UK have not invaded Libya militarily since WWII.

According to the TV, yes, you're correct. I simply look a little deeper.
As specifically pertains to Libya, I don't even know what the TV is saying. By that time, I have got long disappointed with the TV, and quit watching it.
I trust you, that we did not invade Libya, if they say so, on the TV. However, the CIA had been organizing, supporting, and leading the gangs that took down Gaddaffi.
Same in Syria, same in Egypt. I would be hard pressed to point out, where this was not the case, actually.

This may-be doesn't count to most people. I was just trying to point out to miss darkeyes, that as shocking as it must be, there is absolutely no difference between her justification for taxing the people to provide for healthcare, and banks waging the wars. In both cases, the attacking group has the idea, and believes that everyone else must be made to comply. As to whether the attacked group supports that idea, no consideration is given.

It is funny how people operate, if you look at it historically. The ubiquitously hated Nazis, too, had a great idea, and although disgusting to us, if one were to ask them, they were pretty sure (the majority) that it all was for the greater good.

I really shouldn't have posted under this topic, I think.

But, it makes me wonder, why is it that the people of minority, in our case, sexual minority, so readily support the majority cause. Haven't they learned that the might doesn't make right?

[falcondfw]

According to the TV, yes, you're correct. I simply look a little deeper.
As specifically pertains to Libya, I don't even know what the TV is saying. By that time, I have got long disappointed with the TV, and quit watching it.
I trust you, that we did not invade Libya, if they say so, on the TV. However, the CIA had been organizing, supporting, and leading the gangs that took down Gaddaffi.
Same in Syria, same in Egypt. I would be hard pressed to point out, where this was not the case, actually.

This may-be doesn't count to most people. I was just trying to point out to miss darkeyes, that as shocking as it must be, there is absolutely no difference between her justification for taxing the people to provide for healthcare, and banks waging the wars. In both cases, the attacking group has the idea, and believes that everyone else must be made to comply. As to whether the attacked group supports that idea, no consideration is given.

It is funny how people operate, if you look at it historically. The ubiquitously hated Nazis, too, had a great idea, and although disgusting to us, if one were to ask them, they were pretty sure (the majority) that it all was for the greater good.

I really shouldn't have posted under this topic, I think.

But, it makes me wonder, why is it that the people of minority, in our case, sexual minority, so readily support the majority cause. Haven't they learned that the might doesn't make right?

LA,

I don't even own a TV that works. I swear upon my life that is the truth. I don't usually even look at ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, or MSNBC on the net, unless I want to learn the liberal point of view for something.

I don't own a TV, because of the crap on TV and the fact I have 3 young, impressionable kids. I want to control what they watch. I don't want them watching things like "Real Housewives of Outer Space" (That's the next one). If they like a show and I approve of it, I will download it and we will watch together (They love Power Rangers and I approve. So I download it.).

I said we did not invade Libya militarily. Not that we did not invade Libya. I know for a fact there was a "human rights mission" in Egypt, led by the son of the Secretary of Commerce (or Labor. Not sure which.). What the hell was a son of a high ranking US government official doing in Tahir Square in the days leading up to the "Arab Spring"? C'mon. I did not fall of the turnip truck yesterday. Last week? maybe. But not yesterday.

I know our CIA and NSA stick their nose where they definitely don't belong and as a result, they are often wrong.

BUT. It was not like Bill Clinton and the aspirin factory in Sudan trying to distract from Monica Lewinsky's blue dress.

I honestly have not even heard any rumblings of CIA involvement in Syria. As the English say, that would be a "MAJOR cock up.". But i would not put it past those idiots.

As for the banks waging wars, i would have to see some proof first. Although the left has claimed Gulf War I was about oil, from all of those i know who were involved, it was about Kuwait. Good thing too. My cousin, at the time, was married to a member of the Al-Sabbah family (even though she was disowned by all her family for disobedience, ie not marrying who she was supposed to). She still cared about her family and friends, even though she could not talk to them.

The nazi ideas of the master race were accepted by the German people, because they were terrified to speak against it. Himmler's SS and Krystalnacht made sure of that.

And i disagree. You should have posted. The free exchange of ideas in a respectful manner is a wonderful thing and is totally encouraged by Drew (the owner of this web site.), obviously, as long as we stay within legal borders. lol. Don't want free discussion of illegal things.

Agreed, might does not make right. However, I feel the vast majority of Americans could care less what someone's sexuality is. It is a private matter that should remain behind private doors, of concern only to those immediately involved. I think the Michele Bachmann's and the Barack Obamas are in the vast, polarizing minority on these issues, on both sides. Just live and let live. If someone asks you and you are not interested, a polite "no thank you" should suffice. Whether the asker is straight, gay, bi, or made of green cheese.

[darkeyes]

Much better. I can understand what you saying now.

I guess, I have to agree, that if you accept that you must pay taxes if your government requires it, then you accept that your taxes directly fund the bombs.

I, on the other hand, do not accept that. And, I don't vote. Voting, is an immoral thing to do, if you think about it, especially, for a pacifist. And no, I am not a great moralist either, but, I understand few big, cornerstone good and bad "do"s and "don't"s.

Speaking of a pacifist, I doubt you're one. Because, a pacifist cannot advocate for violence. But you do. Even if that is a consequence of your acceptance of your taxes, in effect, you still do. Basically, you are consenting, that there be a violent jack boot at my door, if I don't pay my taxes. You do know that the tax compliance is enforced by violence, right? A pacifist, cannot consent to violence. A pacifist insists on voluntary action, and may-be a defense against an aggression, but many pacifists even go as far as insisting on non-defense.

The bombs, you do not like, I get it. But, the forceful payments to healthcare, you approve. You, personally, think that such healthcare is a great idea, and, you have your arguments to support your conclusion. And so, you gladly pay "a little extra" for such system to exist. Yet, you have no problem sending a jack-booted thug to shake-up those who have a different opinion. Some kind of pacifist, if you ask me.

It then becomes interesting, what is the ground for you not liking of the military meddling in foreign lands? If they do not comply "our ideas", which we think are great, then we should violently force them to comply, right? For instance, we would allow any of their people to be taken care in "our" hospitals. This great and passionate act on our part, already gives us the moral right to demand payments from all of them. Or, we have an idea that they all must sell their oil for our currencies only. We like this idea, and we have our arguments of why we think that the world would be better off this way. So, when Saddam Hussein refused to spend the national treasure of Iraq on earning US dollars, and demanded gold, the US had sent the soldiers to demand compliance. First time it happened, he couldn't find enough courage and backed out. The soldiers then let him live. The second time he did that, the US literally ripped his head off.

When Lybian Gadaffi decided that the interests of several African nations were different from the interests of US and UK bankers, he served as a major organizing force to bring those African nations to an agreement on their own currency, the gold Dinar. Him personally, would lose a great deal of power were that agreement actually implemented. Yet, he insisted. So, the US and UK bankers, being in a strong disagreement with his vision for the future of Africa not being enslaved by Anglo's fractional reserve banking, decided they have a moral right to demand compliance. They sent in "the patriots" and alas, ole Gaddaffi got raped with a dirty rusted pipe before he got shot.

If you like the idea of forcing other people into compliance with the ideas that you like, you shouldn't really have that much dislike of military action in foreign lands. It is all the same principle, really. I mean, think of it, yes, may-be Saddam and Gaddaffi did think that the ideas of US and UK bankers were bad, but what really mattered was that the US and UK bankers really believed that their ideas were great, and it was that (and your and mine taxes) which gave them the right (and the might) to force the compliance.

sed, tamen diversis, nos suffragium

Look babes..am off on me hols in less than an hour so this is likely to b the last post I make for some time.. we have an expression here.. several expressions.. talking gobblydegook and talking through ur arse... u do both and very badly too. Its ok.. we live in countries where it isn't against the law to do either badly or otherwise.. if u'd ever read anything I have ever written about anything of the issues u raise in the above confused morass u "argue" maybe u would understand better.. but I'm not sure u have the grasp or the comprehension to do that...

[1strider]

Fran, you are so right on... Falcon, you are so wrong it's scary!!

[falcondfw]

Rider,
Where and why am I wrong in what I have posted?

[IanBorthwick]

The Pharmaceutical lobby has an iron grip control of the US government, ergo, the US market and are sucking us dry.

Various studies have found that prescription drug prices are substantially higher in the United States than in other countries. GAO compared U.S. factory prices with those in Canada and found that manufacturers' prices to wholesalers for identical prescription drugs are typically much higher in the United States than in Canada. The price differences are largely attributable to actions taken by Canada's federal and provincial governments to restrain drug prices, not to any differences in manufacturers' costs .

Quoted for Truth.

Most of what Falcon and DD are saying is Faux News based rhetorical opinions fostered as facts and it is the most egregious sin cast on the American People. Opinion with nothing to back them up and it gnaws like a cur at my heel, but I'll not be tempted into combat with you over it.

Suffice to say that the cuts to Medicare are actually moving money from ONE system to the other and has NO effect on care. It does, however, remove a big MediGap system that didn't actually pay much or often. Then there is the fact that the only people whoa re going to be out in this new system were the people lobbying so damn hard, Big Pharma and the For Profit CEOs of these insurance companies who are now going to be limited in how much money they can devote from what they are paid to pad their pockets. Period. So they started a full court press of BS and not surprisingly, those of you locked in a Red State are screaming socialism and Obamacare is EVIL and LAZY, despite the record of Medicare being about a million times better than the For Profit BS we are having now.

Honestly, I'd love it if you actually read some of Joan's links rather than running a Coax cable to your brain with Rupert Murdock VideoDroming you.

Keep up the good work Fran, you might get some flack but I have your back here...just forgive me for being too tired at these same putrid arguments they raise to copy and paste links to debunk them.

[DuckiesDarling]

Quoted for Truth.

Most of what Falcon and DD are saying is Faux News based rhetorical opinions fostered as facts and it is the most egregious sin cast on the American People. Opinion with nothing to back them up and it gnaws like a cur at my heel, but I'll not be tempted into combat with you over it.

Suffice to say that the cuts to Medicare are actually moving money from ONE system to the other and has NO effect on care. It does, however, remove a big MediGap system that didn't actually pay much or often. Then there is the fact that the only people whoa re going to be out in this new system were the people lobbying so damn hard, Big Pharma and the For Profit CEOs of these insurance companies who are now going to be limited in how much money they can devote from what they are paid to pad their pockets. Period. So they started a full court press of BS and not surprisingly, those of you locked in a Red State are screaming socialism and Obamacare is EVIL and LAZY, despite the record of Medicare being about a million times better than the For Profit BS we are having now.

Honestly, I'd love it if you actually read some of Joan's links rather than running a Coax cable to your brain with Rupert Murdock VideoDroming you.

Keep up the good work Fran, you might get some flack but I have your back here...just forgive me for being too tired at these same putrid arguments they raise to copy and paste links to debunk them.

Nope, Ian, as a matter of fact I don't watch Fox News for a variety of reasons, prefer the cutie named Anderson Cooper, damn shame he's gay... but I am posting based on my current experiences of trying to gain help for my medical bills and my history of working for Federal Blue Cross and Blue Shield which was Administar the service that *gasp* deals with Medicare. Now please try to tell me where I made suppositions about anything I can't prove.

[Dog62]

I care for my fellow humans to a point where I will sacrifice what I have, for them.

Hey, good for you. I like that. My cell phone bill is due tomorrow. It is $118.00. When can I expect your sacrifice to get here? I have an outstanding doctors bill also. Will you pay that for me too?
As long as we are on the subject, I would like you to suck my dick too. Is that a sacrifice you are prepared to make also?