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  1. #121
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    You have a point Annika. I find it difficult to read any thread now where that word is used on this site. On another biguys' site, it is handled entirely differently. It exists and no one wants it to happen but it does. Being judgmental about other people's situation has always seemed inappropriate from my perspective and I find it most strange on a sexual minority website.

  2. #122
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by tenni View Post
    You have a point Annika. I find it difficult to read any thread now where that word is used on this site. On another biguys' site, it is handled entirely differently. It exists and no one wants it to happen but it does. Being judgmental about other people's situation has always seemed inappropriate from my perspective and I find it most strange on a sexual minority website.
    I think it's a very emotionally charged subject.

    It can be devastating to be cheated on...certainly emotionally, and possibly physically. But as you imply, those who do it often see it as their only option and wish (often desperately) that it wasn't necessary...so the suggestion that they are "bad people" is also emotionally hurtful. And then there are those of us who have maintained a hard line with ourselves and not cheated, perhaps despite strong temptation and emotional anguish at times: giving a clean pass to those who submit to temptation suggests that *our* efforts aren't really worthwhile, are unnecessary, or even silly. Given the effort that goes into *not* cheating, this is as hurtful as anything else.

    So I think it's difficult for a group of people from all these varying background to have a productive conversation on the topic...we're all too touchy for various good reasons...we all react emotionally from our own particular camps.

    I think it would help if we all recognized *why* we have such strong emotional reactions to this topic, and recognized the validity of each person's pain and difficulty here...then we could listen and respond to one another a bit more constructively, and also be more sensitive in how we phrase our cries for help (recognizing that what you want help with may legitimately be sensitive for someone else).
    I hope my achievements in life shall be these: that I will have fought for what was right and fair, that I will have risked for that which mattered, that I will have given help to those who were in need...that I will have left the earth a better place for what I've done and who I've been. (C. Hoppe)

  3. #123
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    If you are having sex with someone other then your spouse or significant other and they don't know........IT'S CHEATING!!!!!!!!

  4. #124
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    I do know that some of the guys that I have met with who are married--they are doing what they are doing "on the side" and in most if not all such cases, they are not telling their wives or girlfriends.

    If I had my druthers, I would wish that they were open with their significant others, but when it comes to the relationships of others----it is really not the business of those outside of such a relationship to judge what goes on between a couple.

    In the case of such guys I know--its not like we get together all that much-- when we do we take all due precautions to "play safe" and its not like we are having a deep emotional relationship that could threaten their marriage---I admittedly have started out with some of them to simply have sex, but after some time--we have developed friendships of sorts----I guess I do put the nature of these relationships as being "friends with benefits." Some of the guys say that doing this has actually in some cases improved their relationships and the sex they have with their wives since they do get some outside "relief" that helps take off some of the pressure they might put on their wives to have "sex on demand" and they have come to much more appreciate the sex they do have with their wives.

    Not that what I am saying is true for all in this situation---its simply the experience I have had and some of my observations regarding the prime relationships of those guys who are my "buds with benefits."
    "Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere..." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #125
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annika L View Post
    Hi Liz, I just wanted to point out that I *think* Northerner left out an important modifier in his post. I *think* (and I hope he'll correct me if I'm wrong) that he meant "what makes you think that the "vast majority" of people who request discretion in their profiles are cheaters?"

    I remember your poll, and yes I agree that the majority of respondents said they cheated. The question that Northener seemed to be addressing, though, was whether (as Pasa claims) the expression "must be discreet" is really used by the vast majority of our members as code for "I'm cheating and I don't want my partner to find out."

    Your poll would not shed light on that question.
    Thank you Annika. *I* knew what I was trying to say :-) ...and luckily you did too, because I didn't state that very clearly.

  6. #126
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    I really do not care what you call it.
    The siginficance of exclusivity to you and ,second, to your partner is what will determine it's meaning in your life.
    First, even if your married, you do not own them or they own you. This means more than the physical you or them.
    Even if your married, you have no right to expect them to live without sex or them to expect you to do that.
    This is only, one item of a larger set of what you can not expect another to do for your ego to be satisfied.
    Hopefully, you can expect them to love and support you and expect you to do the same for them.
    With luck and much work, you are best friends, lovers and parents.
    JEM

  7. #127
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by welickit View Post
    We are both sure this will generate lots of flaming. What is the difference and what does a cheat or liar have to offer? You can't take care of your own spouse so you look elsewhere. Now comes the excuses.
    I agree, they mean the same thing.

    I have gotten PMs from women and men on this site who say how they have to be discreet.

    They can't read my profile and think that even though my wife and I are monogamous and only have sex with each other that we're somehow going to have sex with these men and women either together or separately.

    Quote Originally Posted by 12Voltman
    I do know that some of the guys that I have met with who are married--they are doing what they are doing "on the side" and in most if not all such cases, they are not telling their wives or girlfriends.

    If I had my druthers, I would wish that they were open with their significant others, but when it comes to the relationships of others----it is really not the business of those outside of such a relationship to judge what goes on between a couple.

    In the case of such guys I know--its not like we get together all that much-- when we do we take all due precautions to "play safe" and its not like we are having a deep emotional relationship that could threaten their marriage---I admittedly have started out with some of them to simply have sex, but after some time--we have developed friendships of sorts----I guess I do put the nature of these relationships as being "friends with benefits." Some of the guys say that doing this has actually in some cases improved their relationships and the sex they have with their wives since they do get some outside "relief" that helps take off some of the pressure they might put on their wives to have "sex on demand" and they have come to much more appreciate the sex they do have with their wives.

    Not that what I am saying is true for all in this situation---its simply the experience I have had and some of my observations regarding the prime relationships of those guys who are my "buds with benefits."
    That's nice that you're helping your fuck buddies cheat on their girlfriends and wives and pretending that you're somehow not helping someone lie and cheat on their partner, wife, girlfriend, or spouse.

  8. #128
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Discreet can mean you have to be careful because your parents and friends might find out. It can also mean you are afraid because a spouse or significant other might find out.
    Cheat means you have a spouse or significant other and do not have permission to play on the side.
    Discreet can be cheating, but doesn't have to be.
    Cheating is wrong. Period.

  9. #129
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    cheating...lying, its all the same. Why in the world would you think there was a difference?
    ~Adero~

  10. #130
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Paraphrasing:
    "He without sin cast the first stone."

    Jesus.

    Nuf said.

    I don't practice the Christian path but Jesus did say some true zingers.

    Once in a while one has on this site, like welickit, a person or persons who decide to be judgemental and get on their high moral horse to cast sentence. Yet, they fail to see or observe their failings-and don't start saying that such people have none. Everyone has a failing, be it drugs, alcohol, food, chocolate, McDonalds's, smoking...you get the picture.

    So if you're pure, with NO vice, then by all means cast judgement all you want.
    Last edited by nudeorphic; Sep 29, 2011 at 1:12 PM.

  11. #131
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    I can only talk on my situation. I am bicurious, have been for longtime, biporn and shemales turn me on. I asked my wife after we watched biporn few times if she would like to try it. She said it is only a fantasy, dont want it to be real. I respect and love her, but my urge to try is overwhelming, so being clean and discreet is what will happen here.

  12. #132
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by FalconAngel View Post
    To me, discrete is when you do not want the outside world to know and cheat is when you don't want your s/o to know.

    The former is not bad, but the latter is bad. There are plenty of Bi couples, straight couples and mixed orientation couples out there that are discrete, but it does not mean that there is cheating going on. In our case, we both try to meet any of the guys that we are interested in, together. It does not always work out that way (when the wife is tired or ill), so the wife sends me off to do the meet and I return and report to her what my feelings are about the guy.

    That is not cheating, but it is discrete.

    Like I said, if the s/o does not know and is kept in the dark about anything even happening (like lying about it), then that is definitely cheating.
    Thus far, I agree with this post as the most accurate. Just dumped a guy on another site when the word "discreet" triggered a red flag; sure enough, he was married. Told him I was up for it only if the wife knew. Had another M/B/M recently get pissy & indignant when I turned him down claiming I "should get used to it" because most of the bi men around here are married. Got to admit, he was probably right. I've been propositioned by more secretly bi men than singles, which are so hard to find. So, I've started cruising gay sites more to try & avoid that dilemma.
    FIRE IN THE BELLY

  13. #133
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by nudeorphic View Post
    Paraphrasing:
    "He without sin cast the first stone."

    Jesus.

    Nuf said.

    I don't practice the Christian path but Jesus did say some true zingers.

    Once in a while one has on this site, like welickit, a person or persons who decide to be judgemental and get on their high moral horse to cast sentence. Yet, they fail to see or observe their failings-and don't start saying that such people have none. Everyone has a failing, be it drugs, alcohol, food, chocolate, McDonalds's, smoking...you get the picture.

    So if you're pure, with NO vice, then by all means cast judgement all you want.
    That admonishment by Christ was to prevent us from judging the worth of the person, as we are not qualified to do so. It was not intended for us to stop judging the actions of others. We can say "you are cheating, and that's wrong" without stepping into the role of God as the final arbiter of a soul.

    It is perfectly ok for us, as a community, to say "cheating is wrong, and we won't tolerate it."

    Pasa

  14. #134

    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    I say this- is someone going to be hurt, including myself by it? Then I better be honest about it. I hurt someone once merely by the possibility, I know how horrible that must have been, so it's not for me. If its not 100 % honest, I will have no part in it.

  15. #135
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    I haven't read all the posts in this thread but IMO sometimes HERE being discreet is not talking about the cheating you are doing. I'm with you Doogie, when I see 'discreet' in an ad I'm fairly certain the person is cheating.

    I am discreet (and I LIKE it): I don't gossip, don't talk about my personal life here, no nude pics anywhere, am honourable and do my best to not offend anyone.

    PS: to the person who called me an uptight asshole: you will NEVER have me, so enough with the compliments already.

    "To love someone deeply gives you strength. Being loved by someone deeply gives you courage." -Lao Tzu

  16. #136
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Well nice one Welllickme..or it..haha
    I would love to explain what I think but since you put this up to make people fight and feel bad I won't. You are weak and make all of us look stuipid.

    Cheers

  17. #137

    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    To some everything is merely black & white.
    The same type often advocate a partner living in total sexual submission to the other, completely denying their own desires/needs. To such its either that or separate/divorce. There is no in between.
    I have also noticed that those who attempt involve themselves in these personal/moral decisions of others when discussing a male often discard such notions if its a female. A 'morality' of convenience as it were.

    Personally I dont see these things as merely black & white. Seeking platonic sexual pleasure is rather different than seeking a love relationship. I am fully aware that in some circumstances discarding a relationship to seek a 'better' sexual match isnt really the best course of action at all. I also acknowledge that living in submission to the will/desire/appetite of a partner may not be the best course either. Sometimes safely filling the gap may in fact be the best course of action. I am willing to allow others to make their own decisions w/o judgment or pontificating on the matter.

  18. #138
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    ~
    I’ve been on the cheating side of life, being the “cheatee” on both sides of the fence. While it is seen as being morally and virtuously, reprehensible, it is (in my estimation), also a necessary evil, like prostitution, only without the immediate exchange of money. They say, it takes “two to tango” and so long as there is temptation, there will be cheating. It’s the “human condition"...people just have to deal with it.
    ~
    Last edited by Šonpax; Dec 12, 2011 at 1:56 PM.

  19. #139
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    What's funny is that society has yet to catch on to the animalistic tendencies that are characteristic of us humans. Men (and some Women) have not only been desiring (and going after) other sexual partners since the beginning of time, they have also been seeking out male partners.

    Please, stop judging ladies and gentlemen. We've all have our own decisions to make and lord knows they dont ever seem to be getting easier. Many of us got married as (near) children for approval or convenience and weren't experienced (or mature) enough to understand how it would deprive us of natural wants and desires that would manifest later in life.

    The troubling part is that Men have to sneak around to fulfill their urges, just as many homo/bisexuals feel like they have to sneak around to get what their bodies tell them they want. Societal ideas of human interaction and "the way things are supposed to be" are becoming very obsolete.

    Modern day Marriage is presenting itself as a pathetic way to trap people into unhappy bounds, another means to control humans in nature (like religion) . A successful marriage should be nothing more than an extension of a viable support system in which partners are there to promote well being.

    No offense, but the whole "love and intimacy has to be apart of sex" idea is more of a women thing (by nature). Men and women are very different; Us men could get an erection and place it in almost any hole without a drip of emotion, a primal urge to procreate. Women on the other hand are designed to find the most suitable partner to produce viable offspring.

    Excuse my rant

  20. #140
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by firtstella View Post
    What's funny is that society has yet to catch on to the animalistic tendencies that are characteristic of us humans. Men (and some Women) have not only been desiring (and going after) other sexual partners since the beginning of time, they have also been seeking out male partners.

    Please, stop judging ladies and gentlemen. We've all have our own decisions to make and lord knows they dont ever seem to be getting easier. Many of us got married as (near) children for approval or convenience and weren't experienced (or mature) enough to understand how it would deprive us of natural wants and desires that would manifest later in life.

    The troubling part is that Men have to sneak around to fulfill their urges, just as many homo/bisexuals feel like they have to sneak around to get what their bodies tell them they want. Societal ideas of human interaction and "the way things are supposed to be" are becoming very obsolete.

    Modern day Marriage is presenting itself as a pathetic way to trap people into unhappy bounds, another means to control humans in nature (like religion) . A successful marriage should be nothing more than an extension of a viable support system in which partners are there to promote well being.

    No offense, but the whole "love and intimacy has to be apart of sex" idea is more of a women thing (by nature). Men and women are very different; Us men could get an erection and place it in almost any hole without a drip of emotion, a primal urge to procreate. Women on the other hand are designed to find the most suitable partner to produce viable offspring.

    Excuse my rant
    curious,... is that expressed as a bisexual male talking to females.... or a person sharing a understanding of their viewpoint of marriage...... cos it reads the same way as I have seen so many bisexual males post..........

    even heterosexual and homosexual male and female posters have a different way of seeing marriage.... and I can not help but wonder why it is that its generally bisexual males that have such a view of marriage...... and not bisexual females........
    Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
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  21. #141

    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by firtstella View Post
    No offense, but the whole "love and intimacy has to be apart of sex" idea is more of a women thing (by nature). Men and women are very different...
    Although I do not concur with your views on marriage, this part is true.

    I might word it this way, men are turned on by visual aspects, just the activity itself, we are are quite capable of engaging in sex in much the same fashion as we would a round of golf, or other activity we enjoy. We dont require a love or emotional component. We just like to get off, and do so frequently. We are capable of a love/emotion driven connection, we just dont require it.

    Women generally require an emotional aspect, they are not as much turned on by what they see/do as what they feel. Women tend to want sexual activity with someone they feel connected to. Generally women are not nearly as capable of having an 'NSA' sexual arrangement as men. Even when they say that such is desired all of that usually evolves or changes once sex takes place.

    These factors are not absolute, their are some men who intertwine emotion with any sexual activity, and some women who are able to have NSA relations but in my experience these factors are true an overwhelming amount of the time.

    In the str8 world the overwhelming majority of swinging activity among couples is suggested and groomed by the male.
    In the bisexual world the ratio of men seeking NSA 'fun' is overwhelming compared to women seeking the same.
    These are not homo/hetro/bi/gay factors...these are human factors related to gender differences.
    Last edited by want2havefun; Dec 13, 2011 at 11:52 AM.

  22. #142

    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    To go a step further...

    In married couples if/when there is a serious sexual imbalance the reasons and methods for seeking 'satisfaction' elsewhere generally differ.

    Women will generally become involved in an infatuation/emotional 'love affair' with someone they perceive will sexually fulfill them. They will seek an emotional connection with another person.

    Men will simply seek some 'side action' content to remain with their partner for all the other love/emotion etc reasons and good qualities they see in their spouse. They will seek only some fun/action/release.

    These factors are why often we see men attempt to mislead women emotionally.

    Again, nothing is absolutely 100% applicable to all, there is always some exception, but in my friendships over the years, and in my own experience, I have seen this play out many many times....so far always in about the same manner.

  23. #143
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong View Post
    curious,... is that expressed as a bisexual male talking to females.... or a person sharing a understanding of their viewpoint of marriage...... cos it reads the same way as I have seen so many bisexual males post..........

    even heterosexual and homosexual male and female posters have a different way of seeing marriage.... and I can not help but wonder why it is that its generally bisexual males that have such a view of marriage...... and not bisexual females........
    Its expressed as a human giving reason to why our natural instincts rarely ever add up to what many would consider the moral standard.

    I often want to scream at my boss. I dont because it may get me fired....unfortunately, not doing so doesn't make the urge go away. But I understand the consequences of doing so. Marriage should not have to be the same.....

    If most of us knew that marriage had much more to do with building a support system for yourself (and others) and less to do with "love and infatuation", we probably wouldn't have jumped the broom.

    Im not saying that most marriages are flawed and bound for unhappiness. However, the concept is a misleading one and does not deliver what it pretends to (overflowing love and attention and a consistent willing sexual partner). And even more it fails to uplift the well known natural tendencies of men to have multiple sex partners as a means to procreate.

    It presents itself as a "man-made" idea, not one sent down from Mother Nature. And I am not surprised that men are finding other (more "indecent") ways to taste penis/vagina. Nothing new with us. We've been this way since the beginning of time.

    The more intelligent women understand this and do not allow this to alter their own tendencies (to be nurturer, raise wonderful human beings, and become the more emotionally adept of the 2 genders).

  24. #144
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by firtstella View Post
    Its expressed as a human giving reason to why our natural instincts rarely ever add up to what many would consider the moral standard.

    I often want to scream at my boss. I dont because it may get me fired....unfortunately, not doing so doesn't make the urge go away. But I understand the consequences of doing so. Marriage should not have to be the same.....

    If most of us knew that marriage had much more to do with building a support system for yourself (and others) and less to do with "love and infatuation", we probably wouldn't have jumped the broom.

    Im not saying that most marriages are flawed and bound for unhappiness. However, the concept is a misleading one and does not deliver what it pretends to (overflowing love and attention and a consistent willing sexual partner). And even more it fails to uplift the well known natural tendencies of men to have multiple sex partners as a means to procreate.

    It presents itself as a "man-made" idea, not one sent down from Mother Nature. And I am not surprised that men are finding other (more "indecent") ways to taste penis/vagina. Nothing new with us. We've been this way since the beginning of time.

    The more intelligent women understand this and do not allow this to alter their own tendencies (to be nurturer, raise wonderful human beings, and become the more emotionally adept of the 2 genders).
    It's entirely possible for someone that's bisexual to be monogamous when they're with a partner of the opposite gender or same gender.

    Most bisexuals actually are monogamous and it doesn't matter if they are partnered with the opposite gender or same gender.

    I'm in an open relationship now with my husband but in the past I have been completely monogamous and faithful with men and women who I was in relationships with and they were monogamous as well.

    Not all women want to nurture, have children, or allow or turn a blind eye to their male partner's cheating while he expects her to be completely faithful and monogamous.

    If you're just going to cheat on a spouse or someone who you love and you're not in an open relationship or can't discuss having an open relationship or open marriage with your spouse or partner, why even get married at all?

  25. #145
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    Some of this has been posted, but every single person on this site has lied to a sex partner, SO, family member, etc.. You can deny it if you like, but everyone lies. And we lie a LOT more than we even credit ourselves for - including those little lies that "no one will be harmed by" and "are for their own good - I'm really protecting them by not telling them what I know."

    People who look down on others for lying are hypocrites, pure and simple. Everyone has secrets they don't want others to know.

    Except me, of course.

    We are one of the few couples out there (it seems) that don't care about and don't judge others' situations. If it works out and we are friends or even sex partners, fine. If not, fine too. We will play with those who are compatible and we won't play with those who aren't.

    Life is too short to be worried about other people's problems. I have enough of my own.

    And IMO there is wayyyyy too much fake outrage by people being offended by "other peoples" transgressions when they can't even fix (or even admit) their own.

    Look in the mirror first, bunky.

  26. #146
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    Re: Discreet or cheat? What is the difference?

    If I have learned anything from mindless American "reality" TV shows I think "cheating" is when you get caught ..

 

 

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