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  1. #61

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    now I went and dug out the book from its storage place... since you want a book with a set wording in it....... and I paraphased the wording into a simple to read format.....

    now this is where I paraphased it
    "a bisexual is a person that is attracted to both genders, however, the level of attraction is isolated to certain aspects of a person of either gender, IE, bear males, cougar females etc etc etc and often characterized by attraction on set levels, IE not emotional or mental but sexual.... or emotional and sexual but not mentally"

    what is below is part of what I paraphrased.... and you may understand why I paraphrased it into simple terms..... as I was not in the mood to type out all 17 pages and sections...

    2.3
    Bisexual and Bisexuality: Ambiguous terms relating to a extensive undefined range of sexual attraction, intimate partnering, understanding of ones behievour using Kinsey scale ( Refer Sec 1.4-1.6 gender to sexuality ).

    Bisexuality is not to be confused with Gender Identity Dysphoria defining sexuality ( Refer Sec 3.2-3.7 Sexuality defined by Gender Identity ) GID can not define sexuality as gender is in flux and non specific.

    A bisexual individual is self identifying, using personal criteria leading to oft mistaken understanding of self sexuality. Understanding of bisexuality is differcult, due to issues with lack of correct bordered definition.
    In order to define as bisexual and sexuality as bisexual, a person should be able to clearly indicate the level of attraction to gender and gender appearance beyond desire and perceived intent.

    A person that has perceived intent of sexual contact, is in a stage of sexuality experimentalism, this is not confined to prepubescent to adulthood age range and can include other sexual contact and experimentation ( human and other: Ref Sec 8.5-8.9 Fluid Sexual stages and Definitions )
    This stage can remain consistent for a long period and be defined within the range of bisexuality

    etc etc etc etc etc
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  2. #62

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annika L View Post
    Um...for the same reason it would be good for us in the US to spend some time abroad...'cause you spend an awful lot of time bitching about us, while evidencing that you don't actually know a lot about us?

    And I'm not sure that any person's statement that they are not biased can ever hold any weight. If I am biased, then I may or may not be aware of it. Hence, if I *feel* unbiased, I may or may not be. My bias is ascertained by others through my actions. If someone accuses me of bias based on my actions, it is more meaningful for me to look within and question how I might actually be biased, than it is to simply deny being biased at all. Same for you.
    lol......yes I may appear as biased, I will agree there.... but like I have said, I am getting a lil sick of being told that unless its to the us standards, or by the ( we do it in this way ) us book, that its not right....

    unless I am mistaken, using a us term to define bisexuals as people that are emotionally and sexually attracted to both genders, is omitting any person that ids as the third gender, gender undefined, genderqueer and any person that is attracted to another person only on a sexual basis with no emotions....... is simply and basically negating a lot of bisexuals as not bisexuals at all

    tenni asked for a understanding of bisexuals vs pansexuals, I gave it.... but apparently its wrong as its not a ruling by us terms, tenni is wrong for asking for some enlightenment and I am wrong for giving it by non us terminology....

    is it any wonder that we are seeing so many people no longer posting..... cos its appearing like only us terminology and comments by us people are acceptable in the forum now
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  3. #63

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Long, you are a real crack up my friend. Do you actually read full sentences or do you fill in the ends yourself. So great you found said book. Now who is the organization that backs said book? who are the authors of said book? what is the title of the book? I did not claim you don't know anything I said provide some proof, some actual backing of your statements. To be clear this is your paraphrase. Glad after all this mombo jumbo we got to the truth. you read 17 plus pages and came up with the conclusion bisexuality is a fetish it is in fact your extrapolation, your opinion.
    2.3 Bisexual and Bisexuality: Ambiguous terms relating to a extensive undefined range of sexual attraction, intimate partnering, understanding of ones behievour using Kinsey scale ( Refer Sec 1.4-1.6 gender to sexuality )

    Kinsey scale hmmm a USA construct by the way! and nowhere in what you posted is the term fetish listed. FOCUS man FOCUS. You don't make the terms but YOU interpret them. I assume you are in fact attempting to help in what you say. But just as you state you do not live in USA well I, and most members here, do not live in NZ either. So don't apply some down under construct to the rest of the world. So you worked in the field do you have a PHD in some form of counseling? You say I am using USA only data BUT we do more research then the rest of the world combined. I am perfectly willing to be wrong I just want the proof.

    Now lets be serious for a moment. I agree many people here are attacked for not being the right label. This is exactly why I am holding you to a standard of proof. You make statements without clarification and this can cause pain and further confusion. I assume you are intending to be helpful in what you write? It is important for us to have constructive conversation based on research when we try to help others. If not then we can say it is our opinion. There is danger in representing as given fact something that at best is up for debate. You come off as an intelligent well informed authority but this can be dangerous for someone who cannot stand up to your verb-age. So I am not trying to shoot you down and act as though I am "American" and I know and you don't. I never said I don't care about your opinion. In fact your opinion is fine with me. I want to hear your opinion just don't wrap it up as fact. I am not against you as a person, I don't know you well enough to like or dis-like you. I suspect you and I might see eye to eye more then we disagree. But you have got to back up with the attitude that you are somehow the holder of the real truth and we are some backwoods satan supporters trying to control you with some kind of vulcan mind meld.

    Arrogantly you go on to correct the apa and unesco as though YOU hold the facts and these silly groups know nothing "there are actually 7 levels blah blah blah" again according to whom? You are NOT the end of all things. the world does not revolve around you. You live in a nation of 4.2 million ppl. Los Angeles alone has 9.8 million. Your entire potential data base of research is 1/2 of one city in the USA. That does not make your data for your region wrong but you certainly can not claim your data super cedes data from USA as it applies to the USA nor as it might apply to most industrial nations. From a scientific stand point it would be interesting to compare the data sets and how they impact the various populations. You like to pound your chest about "international blah blah" well for many culture's (eg India) of the world there is no need for the terms bi/pansexual at all. It is more of a norm that ppl will have many partners of different gender and no label is needed as no thought is really given to it at all. So when you state as fact "bisexual is a fetish" you risk hurting ppl who might see you as someone who speaks for the mental health community. So I ask you to be clear with your statements. Give ref when available or be clear that is your understanding or opinion.

    Now can we stop this fight already? You know kiss and make up

    To be clear I do want to hear your opinion. You seem like a smart person and I see you have something to offer and that you seem to care about your fellow human.

    If not and you are more interested in the fight well that's cool too. I'm Irish I can fight all day and all night just for the fun of it.

  4. #64

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong View Post
    lol......yes I may appear as biased, I will agree there.... but like I have said, I am getting a lil sick of being told that unless its to the us standards, or by the ( we do it in this way ) us book, that its not right....

    unless I am mistaken, using a us term to define bisexuals as people that are emotionally and sexually attracted to both genders, is omitting any person that ids as the third gender, gender undefined, genderqueer and any person that is attracted to another person only on a sexual basis with no emotions....... is simply and basically negating a lot of bisexuals as not bisexuals at all

    tenni asked for a understanding of bisexuals vs pansexuals, I gave it.... but apparently its wrong as its not a ruling by us terms, tenni is wrong for asking for some enlightenment and I am wrong for giving it by non us terminology....

    is it any wonder that we are seeing so many people no longer posting..... cos its appearing like only us terminology and comments by us people are acceptable in the forum now
    Long
    ..go back and READ my replys. I did not say unless usa etc. you made that up in your head. I said based on what?

    And yes you are wrong when you interpret anyone being left out by using the apa standard. By using the scale of srt8 to gay you can include all people. You are splitting hairs. Go ahead and talk about your "7 layers approach" we might like your opinion. tenni originally wanted to know who was like him and did not have interest in tg ppl sexually. He insisted on labeling others as bi or pan and that led us to here. I understand you are frustrated with many ppl having what you see as USA only bias and everything else is wrong and believe it or not I support you in this 100%! I want diversity. I want to hear other views. Just mellow out on attacking the USA thing. I have traveled a bit and I love other cultures. So please don't hold back on discussing all this. One thing you should know about most "americans" is we will support your right to be wrong.

  5. #65

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annika L View Post
    Um...for the same reason it would be good for us in the US to spend some time abroad...'cause you spend an awful lot of time bitching about us, while evidencing that you don't actually know a lot about us?

    And I'm not sure that any person's statement that they are not biased can ever hold any weight. If I am biased, then I may or may not be aware of it. Hence, if I *feel* unbiased, I may or may not be. My bias is ascertained by others through my actions. If someone accuses me of bias based on my actions, it is more meaningful for me to look within and question how I might actually be biased, than it is to simply deny being biased at all. Same for you.
    Ok Now I am in love with you

  6. #66

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post
    Long
    ..go back and READ my replys. I did not say unless usa etc. you made that up in your head. I said based on what?

    And yes you are wrong when you interpret anyone being left out by using the apa standard. By using the scale of srt8 to gay you can include all people. You are splitting hairs. Go ahead and talk about your "7 layers approach" we might like your opinion. tenni originally wanted to know who was like him and did not have interest in tg ppl sexually. He insisted on labeling others as bi or pan and that led us to here. I understand you are frustrated with many ppl having what you see as USA only bias and everything else is wrong and believe it or not I support you in this 100%! I want diversity. I want to hear other views. Just mellow out on attacking the USA thing. I have traveled a bit and I love other cultures. So please don't hold back on discussing all this. One thing you should know about most "americans" is we will support your right to be wrong.
    in simple terms.....

    define bisexuality.... and I will show you the other criteria that a lot of bisexuality also is a part of ...

    define bisexual attraction and I will show you the other gender identities that are ignored and left out....

    define learning about being bisexual and I will show you how the 7 levels works, for every person.....

    define bisexual relationships and I will show you how they are covered by other definitions and * labels * that are more clear in their definition

    then I will show you a forum called bisexual.com where people of all sexualities, come to sit, laugh and share...... and argue / disagree on all things bisexual.....

    thats my point...... even the bisexuals can not agree on what bisexuality is..... cos nobody actually knows...... we have a ambiguous label that can apply and be applied to anybody, but if we go to psychs, they have definitions and labels out their ass........ based around our behievour and thinking......

    so who is right.... you, me, us or them ??? or nobody
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  7. #67

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong View Post

    .....thats my point...... even the bisexuals can not agree on what bisexuality is..... cos nobody actually knows...... we have a ambiguous label that can apply and be applied to anybody, but if we go to psychs, they have definitions and labels out their ass........ based around our behievour and thinking......

    so who is right.... you, me, us or them ??? or nobody
    Well we are close to agreement I know lots of psychologist here and they run the gambit themselves str8 to gay and I don't see much labeling going on. They only support the identity as presented by the client. But I am of the opinion that everyone is bi (str8 and gay included), but labels, fear and societal pressure's cause us all to "choose" the extremes. Not necessarily in the conscious choose way mind you. But in a conditioned (nurture) kind of way. I don't think it is about right or wrong but about finding a starting point for the exploration of true self, whatever that might be. Ok well it is 4am and I need some sleep so I look forward to more debate and diversity in the future. Be well down there. yes I know you are not down anywhere and you don't actually hang by your feet and the globe is not actually set with the USA at its center, just a little poke at you

  8. #68

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post
    Well we are close to agreement I know lots of psychologist here and they run the gambit themselves str8 to gay and I don't see much labeling going on. They only support the identity as presented by the client. But I am of the opinion that everyone is bi (str8 and gay included), but labels, fear and societal pressure's cause us all to "choose" the extremes. Not necessarily in the conscious choose way mind you. But in a conditioned (nurture) kind of way. I don't think it is about right or wrong but about finding a starting point for the exploration of true self, whatever that might be. Ok well it is 4am and I need some sleep so I look forward to more debate and diversity in the future. Be well down there. yes I know you are not down anywhere and you don't actually hang by your feet and the globe is not actually set with the USA at its center, just a little poke at you

    I have always had the opinion that everybody has the ability to be bi / pan sexual ( and been told I am wrong ) ...

    sexuality is a form of expression using the human body and unless I am very much mistaken, bisexuals and pan sexuals use their bodies to express themselves in the same way gays / lesbians and heteros do.... thru sexual contact.... its just the type of sexual expression that is the defining factor

    I used the premise ( and got told I was wrong ) that heterosexual is not the default sexuality.... its merely the default form of reproduction....
    most people see it as

    bisexual<<<<<<<< heterosexual >>>>> homosexual

    I see it as

    heterosexual<<<<<< bisexual >>>>>>>> homosexual

    bisexuality as a balance between the two extremes.... in the same way that the kinsey scale has it....

    but if you add in the other sexual identities, it confuses the fuck out of the mix.. and you have to factor in sexual contact and non sexual contact...

    ....................... asexual.........................
    ....................autosexual ( masturbater)............
    hetero................bisexual............lesbian
    .......................polyamorous................ ....
    ........................pansexual................. ....

    now add in the alternative gender... such as intersex / trans / eunuch etc and thats why you have the simpler term of bisexual as a coverall
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  9. #69

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong View Post
    I have always had the opinion that everybody has the ability to be bi / pan sexual ( and been told I am wrong ) ...

    sexuality is a form of expression using the human body and unless I am very much mistaken, bisexuals and pan sexuals use their bodies to express themselves in the same way gays / lesbians and heteros do.... thru sexual contact.... its just the type of sexual expression that is the defining factor

    I used the premise ( and got told I was wrong ) that heterosexual is not the default sexuality.... its merely the default form of reproduction....
    most people see it as

    bisexual<<<<<<<< heterosexual >>>>> homosexual

    I see it as

    heterosexual<<<<<< bisexual >>>>>>>> homosexual

    bisexuality as a balance between the two extremes.... in the same way that the kinsey scale has it....

    but if you add in the other sexual identities, it confuses the fuck out of the mix.. and you have to factor in sexual contact and non sexual contact...

    ....................... asexual.........................
    ....................autosexual ( masturbater)............
    hetero................bisexual............lesbian
    .......................polyamorous................ ....
    ........................pansexual................. ....

    now add in the alternative gender... such as intersex / trans / eunuch etc and thats why you have the simpler term of bisexual as a coverall

    Well IMHO seeing how these are your opinions and points of view they can not be wrong. They might be wrong for me or for someone else but I can not call you wrong for you. In fact in this case I agree more then I disagree. So clearly I have walked into something here. All you said here MIGHT be debatable but to say it is wrong would be absurd and pointless. I have not been involved with too many of these arguments so I guess they are more common then I have noticed? I think it is very difficult for people too maintain these types of arguments because it brings up so much self judgement.

  10. #70

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Why do we need more titles? It is my humble opinion that prejudice and hatred are kept alive by titles and catrgories. In anceint times folks were just sexual, with out a handle.Greeks Romans you name it.

    " I could not handle the pressure of being Bi-sexual......can you imagine wanting to fuck every one you meet?" George Carlin

  11. #71

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong View Post
    tenni asked for a understanding of bisexuals vs pansexuals, I gave it.... but apparently its wrong as its not a ruling by us terms, tenni is wrong for asking for some enlightenment and I am wrong for giving it by non us terminology....
    Oh, settle your feathers.

    Tenni did not ask for an understanding of bisexuals vs. pansexuals; he asked to know which members are bisexual vs. which members are pansexual (read the OP). Tenni further requested that we use the definitions *he* gave in order to make those distinctions (read the OP).

    He certainly didn't request that you roll your eyes at us and supply your interpretation of your favorite professional definition. So yeah...in that regard, you were wrong.

    As just4me suggests, let's move on, shall we? (personally, I think it's this squabbling over stuff that hasn't even been said that drives people off the boards, as much as anything else)

    As a side note, I find this interesting:

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong View Post
    most people see it as

    bisexual<<<<<<<< heterosexual >>>>> homosexual
    I have never heard a single model of sexuality (including basic societal common wisdom) that fits this, as I understand it (i.e., puts heterosexuality in some way between bisexuality and homosexuality). You really think most people see it this way?
    I hope my achievements in life shall be these: that I will have fought for what was right and fair, that I will have risked for that which mattered, that I will have given help to those who were in need...that I will have left the earth a better place for what I've done and who I've been. (C. Hoppe)

  12. #72

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    I rolled my eyes cos I know better than to say anything at all... cos it snowballs....

    I did not match tennis definition of pansexual... so I stated yes I am pansexual, then defined it so people could see the difference between me, tennis version and the generally accepted idea of a male bisexual in the site.... ( male perfers females long term but needs to suck cocks )

    there is a reason why I do at times say I am pansexual, cos few people actually know what a pansexual is.... and have no idea about asexuals or intersex people... they just have the pre fab idea about what a bisexual is and does, and honestly, I am far from that type of bisexual ( perfers open relationships, seeks casual partners and hook ups, is focused on cocks not the whole person, can look at cheating rather than honesty in a relationship etc etc )

    bisexuals have a bad rep with some people.... saying I am pansexual, doesn't give them that chance to knock me without getting to know me first....
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  13. #73

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post
    Well IMHO seeing how these are your opinions and points of view they can not be wrong. They might be wrong for me or for someone else but I can not call you wrong for you. In fact in this case I agree more then I disagree. So clearly I have walked into something here. All you said here MIGHT be debatable but to say it is wrong would be absurd and pointless. I have not been involved with too many of these arguments so I guess they are more common then I have noticed? I think it is very difficult for people too maintain these types of arguments because it brings up so much self judgement.
    many people will disagree with the terms, not knowing what some of them actually mean... or that they even exist

    a example is the asexual, a person that is not interested in penetrative sex or oral sex, they only enjoy kissing, hugging and possibly mutual masturbation... and I do know a few of them.... yet, in most psych reports and studies, they are lumped in with people that enjoy penetrative sex / oral sex....
    in fact, they are a separate group inside the sexuality and sexual expression umbrella.... but its the same with the pansexuals, we are rarely mentioned.... and often referred to as bisexuals.... but we have a wider attraction range.....

    but.... the moment I share terms like that, people start with the * why do we need labels anyway *..... and the reason is simple, if we didn't have a way to define ourselves, everybody would see us all in the same light and think that we are all the same
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  14. #74

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong View Post
    many people will disagree with the terms, not knowing what some of them actually mean... or that they even exist

    a example is the asexual, a person that is not interested in penetrative sex or oral sex, they only enjoy kissing, hugging and possibly mutual masturbation... and I do know a few of them.... yet, in most psych reports and studies, they are lumped in with people that enjoy penetrative sex / oral sex....
    in fact, they are a separate group inside the sexuality and sexual expression umbrella.... but its the same with the pansexuals, we are rarely mentioned.... and often referred to as bisexuals.... but we have a wider attraction range.....

    but.... the moment I share terms like that, people start with the * why do we need labels anyway *..... and the reason is simple, if we didn't have a way to define ourselves, everybody would see us all in the same light and think that we are all the same
    I think I see your point. However, IMHO your adding more labels is just more layers to the same problem "everybody would see us all in the same light and think we are the same" more labels does not change that human tendency. Now don't take this personally but I am not 12 years old and I don't care if people see me as the same, that is a THEM problem not a ME problem. This is why we (every human) must constantly check our biasses with people. On another point, I think part of the reason why people get upset with your terms is HOW you share them. I am learning that every time I read your posts I must first add "the following is my opinion" to the start of every point. If someone try's to share there view with you, you tend to have a dismissive reply. In reply to my post where I said I might not agree with all your terms but in concept I accept that they work for you. You came back with "in fact" language. Not sure if you mean it to sound this way, but once again you present "fact" when, in reality it is your "opinion" or from a less common usage of the word...

    Example:

    Asexual
    definition from the Merriam-webster dictionary
    (this would be a common usage)
    Function: adjective
    Date: 1830
    1 : lacking sex or functional sex organs <asexual plants>
    2 a : involving or reproducing by reproductive processes (as cell division, spore formation, fission, or budding) that do not involve the union of individuals or gametes <asexual reproduction> <an asexual generation> b : produced by asexual reproduction <asexual spores>
    3 : devoid of sexuality (asexual relationship)

    Now once again this does not necessarily make the statement you made wrong BUT terms such as "IN FACT" that are outside the normal usage should have backing. I can hear you now "I have the down under dictionary and that is the problem, the world is not the USA etc..." However seeing as how many ppl on this site are from North America (and Europe), It would be helpful if you would use language like "Here in NZ we expand on the concept of ...etc.." instead of "you are wrong, so there" the latter really comes off as dismissive and when not backed by evidence many ppl will strike out. I hope this is read with my true intent. That being to shed some light on why ppl might be offended from time to time. OR perhaps the site really is just filled with ignorant "suck my dick" assholes. Admittedly, I am not really sure.

    In my OPINION. My view of things if you will. I see anyone who calls themselves bisexual as being part of a continuum. My first thought is always "cool nice to know someone who is not so trapped by labels" So I will always ask "what does being bi mean too you" and if they want to know about me they can ask. Who am I to say if someone is bi based on there actions? If a lesbian is isolated on an island for 20 years is she still a lesbian? What if she only identifies as a lesbian but has never had a female to female contact? Is she still a lesbian? Well if she says she is, then that is good enough for me. I don't care about "unless you have licked pussy your are only lesbian curious" crap. A persons identity is their own.

    So here I am after all this back and forth to say "labels? we don't need more stinking labels" BUT if anyone wants to share the labels they hold for themselves, then cool bi me! Unless that label is "close minded-homophobic, gay bashing asshole" that is. That label can go to hell!
    Last edited by just4mefc; May 21, 2010 at 4:38 PM.

  15. #75

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    After much consideration on the subject, and having never had sex with or on a pan, I cannot possibly be pansexual.

    :

  16. #76

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post
    If a lesbian is isolated on an island for 20 years is she still a lesbian? What if she only identifies as a lesbian but has never had a female to female contact? Is she still a lesbian? Well if she says she is, then that is good enough for me. I don't care about "unless you have licked pussy your are only lesbian curious" crap. A persons identity is their own.
    Yay! Someone else in my camp regarding this. Be warned though, just4me, many here disagree vehemently with you: it seems that the mode here believe that sexuality is about behavior, rather than attraction. *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post
    if anyone wants to share the labels they hold for themselves, then cool bi me! Unless that label is "close minded-homophobic, gay bashing asshole" that is. That label can go to hell!
    Here I must disagree with you. If only *one* class of people were going to own their label, I would want it to be the class of close-minded homophobic gay-bashing assholes. I want these people to stand up and declare their idiot selves, so we know who they are. When undesirable people lie hidden, like dog turds on the lawn, you're more likely to step in shit. When they stand out, it's easier to remove them.
    I hope my achievements in life shall be these: that I will have fought for what was right and fair, that I will have risked for that which mattered, that I will have given help to those who were in need...that I will have left the earth a better place for what I've done and who I've been. (C. Hoppe)

  17. #77

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annika L View Post
    ... I want these people to stand up and declare their idiot selves, so we know who they are. When undesirable people lie hidden, like dog turds on the lawn, you're more likely to step in shit. When they stand out, it's easier to remove them.
    great point and so damn funny! I worship the water you walk on


  18. #78

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post
    I think I see your point. However, IMHO your adding more labels is just more layers to the same problem "everybody would see us all in the same light and think we are the same" more labels does not change that human tendency. Now don't take this personally but I am not 12 years old and I don't care if people see me as the same, that is a THEM problem not a ME problem. This is why we (every human) must constantly check our biasses with people. On another point, I think part of the reason why people get upset with your terms is HOW you share them. I am learning that every time I read your posts I must first add "the following is my opinion" to the start of every point. If someone try's to share there view with you, you tend to have a dismissive reply. In reply to my post where I said I might not agree with all your terms but in concept I accept that they work for you. You came back with "in fact" language. Not sure if you mean it to sound this way, but once again you present "fact" when, in reality it is your "opinion" or from a less common usage of the word...

    Example:

    Asexual
    definition from the Merriam-webster dictionary
    (this would be a common usage)
    Function: adjective
    Date: 1830
    1 : lacking sex or functional sex organs <asexual plants>
    2 a : involving or reproducing by reproductive processes (as cell division, spore formation, fission, or budding) that do not involve the union of individuals or gametes <asexual reproduction> <an asexual generation> b : produced by asexual reproduction <asexual spores>
    3 : devoid of sexuality (asexual relationship)

    Now once again this does not necessarily make the statement you made wrong BUT terms such as "IN FACT" that are outside the normal usage should have backing. I can hear you now "I have the down under dictionary and that is the problem, the world is not the USA etc..." However seeing as how many ppl on this site are from North America (and Europe), It would be helpful if you would use language like "Here in NZ we expand on the concept of ...etc.." instead of "you are wrong, so there" the latter really comes off as dismissive and when not backed by evidence many ppl will strike out. I hope this is read with my true intent. That being to shed some light on why ppl might be offended from time to time. OR perhaps the site really is just filled with ignorant "suck my dick" assholes. Admittedly, I am not really sure.

    In my OPINION. My view of things if you will. I see anyone who calls themselves bisexual as being part of a continuum. My first thought is always "cool nice to know someone who is not so trapped by labels" So I will always ask "what does being bi mean too you" and if they want to know about me they can ask. Who am I to say if someone is bi based on there actions? If a lesbian is isolated on an island for 20 years is she still a lesbian? What if she only identifies as a lesbian but has never had a female to female contact? Is she still a lesbian? Well if she says she is, then that is good enough for me. I don't care about "unless you have licked pussy your are only lesbian curious" crap. A persons identity is their own.

    So here I am after all this back and forth to say "labels? we don't need more stinking labels" BUT if anyone wants to share the labels they hold for themselves, then cool bi me! Unless that label is "close minded-homophobic, gay bashing asshole" that is. That label can go to hell!
    I am adding definition to labels, otherwise all we have is labels that can apply to anybody and make everybody the same

    am I the same as a male with a desire to just suck cocks...????
    am I the same as a male that is interested in casual sex...???
    am I the same as a male that is wanting a open relationship...???
    am I the same as a male that is emotionally / sexually attracted to females and only attracted to males cocks...???

    no and the list goes on..... so what makes me different to other bisexuals....
    the people I am attracted to, the level, what I seek and desire, and what works for me.....

    the label is pansexual, but how I define me as me and not one of the crowd.... is wide ranging

    btw, I was refering to people with the term asexual, not flowers.....
    try this link Asexuality
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  19. #79

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by coloradoguy View Post
    Again Duck you do not seem to know a lot about human sexuality or sexual orientations at all based on what you have written on this thread so far.

    In order to be bisexual someone has to actually be sexually attracted to both genders or both men and women.

    People who are gay or straight can hang out and be friends with or interact socially with thousands of people of the same or opposite gender but this does not make them bisexual at all just because they can find both genders to be enjoayble to be around and interact with on a social level only.

    Being bisexual is not a sexual fetish at all. Just like how being straight or gay is not a sexual fetish. They are all sexual orientations and not sexual fetishes.

    As far as the idea of letting someone pick their own sexual orientation what would you do if a man is sexually attracted to only the same gender and yet maintains that they are straight/heterosexual? Or what if they are sexually attracted to both men and women and yet insist that they are straight or heterosexual? I also agree that the idea of letting a psychologist or a psychiatrist showing a patient a list of sexual orientations and saying "OK pick one!" is silly since if the person is not sure of their sexuality or if they are closeted they will say that they are heterosexual/straight.
    ok cool, 20 years in the counseling and therapy fields, and I know nothing.....

    I guess all the people in the site with differing opinions on what sexuality actually is and how its defined, are all right...... despite the fact that their own opinions contradict each other...

    but one question.... if a bisexual has to be sexually attracted to other people.... how can a bisexual be bisexual while never having sex with people in order to prove / define their sexuality.....

    simple, bisexuality is not limited to sex only..... its a multi range attraction..... that then breaks down into sex, emotions, desires, fantasies etc etc.... once experienced and used to define bisexuality for EACH person individually...

    oh the fun of using blanket statements and sexuality umbrellas without allowing each person to define their sexuality
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  20. #80

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Et tu Bruti?

    "If we didn't have a way to define ourselves, everybody would see us all in the same light and think that we are all the same."

    I appreciate and respect your point, sincerely I do. But my point and view begs to question, "aren't we all the same?" And I mean that in accord with 'the grand scheme of everything', we're all born human animals, live and die as such. We are one family, species of animal on Earth. Lions do not hunt lions save for extreme cases of self defense or territorial defense. Why must we be any different than they? And when folks, anyone, uses such labels and categories to define themselves, we wind up with exclusions. These exclusions readily imply difference, and this leads to misunderstanding, fear and hate.

    And you're in the psychology field? I'll happily be insane, then. How someone with your self professed vaulted education, and profession can not understand my simple and basic point of view is really boggling. Point blank, we're all human, can we just agree to leave off at that? Does it matter to me what you do in the bedroom? Honestly? Not really. It's of no concern to me, here, or there even. I usually sleep in my bedroom, or enjoy sex with my wife or boyfriend. Do I exclude others? Not really. I choose though, as is my right, to be loyal to these two lovely people.

    I don't actively seek other sexual partners. There's plenty of good reason, too. Disease is but one major influence. I could never live knowing I might have brought either of them sickness. And these two share that view. My wife has a boyfriend. She is extremely cautious in sex, doesn't go bed hoping with just any guy. She doesn't enjoy the company of women. I still love her, will remain married to her.

    *sigh* I hate these types of threads. 99&#37; of the time they aren't anything but pissing in the wind wars. And no, I'm not exactly attacking you Long. I am attacking your belief that just because you're educated, in a certain profession ... that your fecal matter doesn't smell, just like the next fellow's or gal's. And ultimately, everyone has an anus and opinion, most stink. And yes, I know mine do. Sorry, no amount of education can teach common sense, it seems. And that's what I'm attacking, the notion that it does, or makes you, or anyone who is educated, more right than anyone else.

    That's common sense, it has no national borders, races, creeds, sexualities, preferences. It's just understood by most human animals on an instinctive level. We're hard wired for it, or so genetics research would be suggesting. And no I'm not claiming to have the market on common sense. That would be really off the rocker. And contrary to what some may opine, I am not insane, much even to my own surprise.
    Last edited by void(); May 22, 2010 at 1:48 AM. Reason: Needed an r for later use in saying, "Rrrr mate, Cap'n got the watch?"

  21. #81

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    I agree void..... we are all the same.... we hate labels... and we are all part of the human race.....

    but, the first thing we do, is fight for our rights under our label.....the same label we do not want..... lol oh the irony

    I have got one mutha fucker of a head cold at the moment and have had for a few days, so yeah, I am taking responsibility for the fact I am barely making much sense... and that it appears that I am not reading others posts... actually its just the fact that I can barely focus on much atm... and thats my fault

    I am not better or worse than anybody else in the world... ( others can argue that point if they want )....and thats why I stand for basic human rights ( you may recall in other threads, me getting slammed for doing that and not being pro lgbt everything )

    the most important reason for me to have a label and definition, is for my partner to who what she is dealing with.... before she agrees to a relationship.... and so we can have ground rules for both of us .... not just on when, where, how and who I can fuck....

    I really should have never posted in this thread at all to be honest..... cos I know and understand that many people will be anti labels, yet claim the labels if rights are infringed upon, start threads about how labels are wrong if people wish to share about what label they walk under, and how wrong labels are for people anyway.... then help others work out what label person should be under and if the labels are correct anyway.....


    so it begs the question, if labels and sexuality doesn't matter, then why do they exist ????
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  22. #82

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annika L View Post
    Yay! Someone else in my camp regarding this. Be warned though, just4me, many here disagree vehemently with you: it seems that the mode here believe that sexuality is about behavior, rather than attraction. *sigh*



    .
    Yes I think he put that quite well too haha.

  23. #83

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    If I like both sauce pans and frying pans, does that make me a bisexual pansexual?(j/k)


    We now return you to the serious discussion at hand ...
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.
    —A. A. Milne
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY

  24. #84

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by coloradoguy View Post
    Even if the person is a virgin they are still going to have sexual fantasies and sexual attractions to people or to both men and women.

    If you're really a counselor NZ must have very dodgy and shitty requirements for being one.
    Interesting strategy here...rather than flaming the individual, you choose to flame the entire culture he comes from. A flame is a flame. Your point in the first paragraph is fine, but if you continue to attack posters, I for one will report you.
    I hope my achievements in life shall be these: that I will have fought for what was right and fair, that I will have risked for that which mattered, that I will have given help to those who were in need...that I will have left the earth a better place for what I've done and who I've been. (C. Hoppe)

  25. #85

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    "I have got one mutha fucker of a head cold at the moment and have had for a few days, so yeah, I am taking responsibility for the fact I am barely making much sense... and that it appears that I am not reading others posts... actually its just the fact that I can barely focus on much atm... and thats my fault

    Sorry to hear of the illness. Hope you do get well soon. Meanwhile, consider an herbal infusion of yarrow root and colt's foot leaf powder. Colt's foot contains tussin, the very same found in Vick's, Robotusin and many other popular otc cough medicines. The yarrow root can help break fevers. One or tea cups as a hot tea to suit a day. It may not cure a cold but it ought help make symptoms bearable.


    I am not better or worse than anybody else in the world... ( others can argue that point if they want )....and thats why I stand for basic human rights ( you may recall in other threads, me getting slammed for doing that and not being pro lgbt everything )


    Yes I do recall that. Still about half disagree with your point of view. But at least, after a bit of reading, reflection that is only half a disagreement. And hey, mature folks can agree to disagree on things. Not everyone does fit the 'one size fits all' mold, thankfully.

    the most important reason for me to have a label and definition, is for my partner to who what she is dealing with.... before she agrees to a relationship.... and so we can have ground rules for both of us .... not just on when, where, how and who I can fuck....

    Hm. That sounds to be akin to what me and the wife got. Her bf is coming to the house Tuesday, I'll be at work. He's waiting to actually bed her until he doesn't feel a need for using a condom. But they can get really steamy by cuddling, too. Then he'll leave, she'll come pick me up from work.

    Elian stays busy, yet he does manage to eek in free time to come visit with me. And we enjoy one another's company to the fullest. Of course, he is in a position that does not afford the luxury of diseases. And I donate blood to public agencies such as Red Cross on occasion. I'm screened when they do that. Was recently screened in regards to blood work done for medication regarding mental health. They didn't report any bad news. I have the wife to think about as well. So, yeah I understand that aspect of things.

    But I still really don't like labels. "If you don't compare yourself to others, they can't compare you either, thus you become incomparable."


    so it begs the question, if labels and sexuality doesn't matter, then why do they exist ????

    What is the meaning of life? "To live young grasshopper." Why did Mohamed climb the mountain? "Because it was there."

    No, I don't have the answers either. But sometimes it's alright to not have them.
    "

  26. #86

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by coloradoguy View Post
    Even if the person is a virgin they are still going to have sexual fantasies and sexual attractions to people or to both men and women.

    If you're really a counselor NZ must have very dodgy and shitty requirements for being one.
    yeah..... 7 shitty years of study to become a fully certified specialized counselor...... there are countries that you can do it in 1-3 years....

    and yeah people do fantasize even as virgins, hence we call them sexuality curious.... they have not defined if their sexuality is sexual based unless they have the sexual contact...

    the only thing lacking, is the sexual contact, but they already have the awareness of themselves to a point that they can define their attractions on a emotional and mental level....... it doesn't mean that they can not define their sexuality on a emotional and mental level..... cos they can

    they are what is known as sexuality aware people.... they know what they are..... but they are called bi curious, as people base bisexuality around sexual contact only, which is incorrect.... bisexuality can cover emotional / mental and sexual attraction

    if you wanna argue that bisexuality is sexual based..... then you are basically saying that bisexuals are merely people with a sexual fetish, they are only interested in sex with the same gender and focus on a specific aspect of the person..... but they can develop a full relationship with the opposite gender....

    and the moment you argue that bisexuality is sexual based, then you have created the asexual and pansexual class of people, the ones that develop emotional and mental attractions to all genders...... and the relationships can be sexual or non sexual......

    the trouble with telling me I am wrong.... is that you are telling the certified experts, they are wrong as I use their findings and case studies .......
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  27. #87

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    I said aspects of it were a sexual fetish by definition

    A fetish is a form of paraphilia, and in fetishism, the affected person has created a strong association between an object and sexual pleasure or gratification. A fetish is not simply a pleasant memory—it is a dominant component of most sexual situations. Most fetishes are objects or body parts. Common fetishes involve items of clothing, stuffed animals, or other non-sexual objects. Body fetishes may involve breasts, legs, buttocks, or genitals.

    I have no issues with virgins being bisexual.... but that requires bisexuality to be based around emotional and mental attraction, not sex..... as the person has no experience in the aspect of sex and no proof that they are bisexual beyond desire..... so that moots the argument in people that bisexuality is sex based.... but of course, I am wrong, they are right.....

    yet, it does not exclude them from being bisexual.... but yeah I am wrong there too....

    now if you will actually read some of my past threads, you will see where I have stated that bisexual latent aspects exist in every person and being told I am wrong, now you are sitting there telling me I am wrong for not accepting the bisexual latent nature of virgin bisexuals ???

    sure tell me I am wrong, be like others, and I will be like the others that have sat and watched people slam me as wrong and not knowing what I am talking about....

    yet, if we accept them as being right.... then bisexuality can not exist in everybody, but exists in everybody, bisexuality is a attraction on many levels, but only if its to do with actually having sex and nothing else, bisexual people are not able to function fully unless they are having sex,... and that any people that dares seek to stop a bisexual, having sex, is wrong and selfish, but a bisexual that cheats and lies, is in the right cos they have to have sex and the whole world needs to wake up and realise that bisexuals rights overrule everything including the rights, thoughts and feelings of partners of bisexuals who are not bisexual

    so yeah, I am happy to be wrong..... but if I am wrong, then most of the bisexuals whose actions and words, match the definitions I post, are not bisexuals, they are self deluded liers....

    but if I am right, then it creates a scenerio of where people are saying I am wrong, not cos I am right, but they want to be right about everything..... and that would make all the bisexuals that match the definitions I post, legit bisexuals within the sexuality spectrum.....

    at the end of the day, I am not denying anybodies bisexuality at all... the people that are telling me that I am wrong, are the ones arguing if people are actually bisexual or not...... the definitions I post, define that bisexuality...

    btw NZ has lgbt marriage rights..... not bad for a country that sucks so badly.... we recognize everybody as people with rights......not just the ones we want to fuck
    Last edited by Long Duck Dong; May 23, 2010 at 3:40 AM.
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  28. #88

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by coloradoguy View Post

    You do not use case studies in your arguments at all as your arguments are based more on your opinions than on actual case studies and verified sources.

    When Just4mefc wrote about the APA and using actual case studies from real professionals and not from people like you, you claimed how such case studies and standards are pointless.
    now I have a question for you.... when you go to mc'D's do you tell them what type of burger you want... or do you just say, I want a burger.... give me a burger...

    when you go to buy a car, do you just say, I want to buy a car, or do you give details of the type of car you want or need...

    when you go to the doctor and require treatment for a illness, do you say, I am ill, cure me.... or do you give details on the illness for the doctor to treat you

    well.... counselors are no different, we require details of your issues in order to work out what is going on and how you may need support, help and guidance, advice and when to be told the differences between your view of your issue and how we percieve your issue.....

    now if you look at the APA....defining sexuality the link is what is copied and pasted below..... and if the fucking APA statement matchs the same thing I have been saying... then its a lil harder to call me wrong, when a professional outfit is saying the same fucking thing

    ( yes I know what I said in other posts in the thread, and yes I was wrong in the way I put things regarding the APA and UNESCO, I had a head cold, but thats no excuse for the fact that I did not proof read and redo what I posted before I posted it )

    Sexual orientation refers to an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attractions to men, women, or both sexes. Sexual orientation also refers to a person's sense of identity based on those attractions, related behaviors, and membership in a community of others who share those attractions. Research over several decades has demonstrated that sexual orientation ranges along a continuum, from exclusive attraction to the other sex to exclusive attraction to the same sex.
    However, sexual orientation is usually discussed in terms of three categories: heterosexual (having emotional, romantic, or sexual attractions to members of the other sex), gay/lesbian (having emotional, romantic, or sexual attractions to members of one's own sex), and bisexual (having emotional, romantic, or sexual attractions to both men and women).
    This range of behaviors and attractions has been described in various cultures and nations throughout the world.
    Many cultures use identity labels to describe people who express these attractions.
    In the United States the most frequent labels are lesbians (women attracted to women), gay men (men attracted to men), and bisexual people (men or women attracted to both sexes).
    However, some people may use different labels or none at all.

    Sexual orientation is distinct from other components of sex and gender, including biological sex (the anatomical, physiological, and genetic characteristics associated with being male or female), gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female),* and social gender role (the cultural norms that define feminine and masculine behavior).

    Sexual orientation is commonly discussed as if it were solely a characteristic of an individual, like biological sex, gender identity, or age.
    This perspective is incomplete because sexual orientation is defined in terms of relationships with others.

    People express their sexual orientation through behaviors with others, including such simple actions as holding hands or kissing. Thus, sexual orientation is closely tied to the intimate personal relationships that meet deeply felt needs for love, attachment, and intimacy. In addition to sexual behaviors, these bonds include nonsexual physical affection between partners, shared goals and values, mutual support, and ongoing commitment. Therefore, sexual orientation is not merely a personal characteristic within an individual. Rather, one's sexual orientation defines the group of people in which one is likely to find the satisfying and fulfilling romantic relationships that are an essential component of personal identity for many people.

    now.... they base sexuality about sexual behievour and other behievour..... but if a person is not having sex at all, how can they have a sexuality.....????????
    the key is the APA put any and all activity of a sexual nature on the same level as full sex... that rules out asexual people and pansexual.... and they define gender as male and female, that rules out alternative genders such as intersex, non sexual

    but they also distance sexual orientation from the other aspects of people, that the average person will use to define sexuality.... IE gender and gender attraction.....its not a contradiction in terms, and they are in fact acknowledging the 3 basic sexualities, but the defining factors that expand it from beyond just the 3 base sexualities....
    what they are saying is that they acknowledge there is more than 3 sexualities, but how the fuck do you define something that is so differcult to define, when most people define themselves based on gender and gender attraction only..... not the rest of the factors as the APA points out
    Last edited by Long Duck Dong; May 23, 2010 at 5:26 AM.
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  29. #89

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Man oh man can we all just get along or what. I see how quickly things get crazy around here. So just to be clear I am not supporting anyone in the bashing of Long. I had a bunch of issues with his language earlier and I am glad to see he is feeling better and appears to be taking responsibility for his words. See in his last post he is providing some validation for his statements, some references if you will. Now that I can get into. I love debate and healthy disagreement. I can understand that Long is frustrated from being bashed. He works from his point of view in his native land of NZ. BTW from everything I have read or seen NZ seems like a very cool place and I hope to go see for myself someday. When I argue with Long it is regarding one of us asserting a particular constraint on the others terms. I am certain I will continue to take issue with things he says. We seem to rub each other the wrong way. (I think we need more lube ) but that does not make him evil nor deserving of attack.

  30. #90

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post
    Man oh man can we all just get along or what. I see how quickly things get crazy around here. So just to be clear I am not supporting anyone in the bashing of Long. I had a bunch of issues with his language earlier and I am glad to see he is feeling better and appears to be taking responsibility for his words. See in his last post he is providing some validation for his statements, some references if you will. Now that I can get into. I love debate and healthy disagreement. I can understand that Long is frustrated from being bashed. He works from his point of view in his native land of NZ. BTW from everything I have read or seen NZ seems like a very cool place and I hope to go see for myself someday. When I argue with Long it is regarding one of us asserting a particular constraint on the others terms. I am certain I will continue to take issue with things he says. We seem to rub each other the wrong way. (I think we need more lube ) but that does not make him evil nor deserving of attack.
    hugs just4.... yeah migraines and head colds do me in badly...... and the language is something that is deliberately awkward.... it makes it a lot harder for people to dissect my posts and twist them around.... but it also tells me how much a person actually knows and understands, by the way they respond......

    the thing is I respect all opinions, as it forces me to rethink my opinions and change them where needed or research a lil more.... thats why its bloody rare I tell people they are wrong, instead I will throw in opposing points of view and differences of opinion, to ensure I am seeing the issue from all sides, not just my point of view.... sadly not everybody is the same, thats why I get told I am wrong so much... but the humorous thing about it is that often I will use statements and quotes that other people have made in the past..... and in fact they are saying they are wrong and full of shit, cos they do not recognize their own opinions in others posts......

    anyways just4, thanks for a good solid and interesting debate..... I have never really been much of a supporter or believer in the APA, based on things like they used to diagnosis homosexuality as a mental illness.... and even now... it appears like they like to side step awkward issues a lot...... but... that happens with a group of psychs... its no different in NZ
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

 

 

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