Register
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 93
  1. #31

    Bisexual or Pansexual? PROOF AT NEXT PARTY

    Bisexual or Pansexual? PROOF AT NEXT PARTY!

    Well, I'm polysexual, trisexual (try.anything), pleasuresexual (too old to get preg), and omnisexual (consenting adult humans in a small group of swingers).

    We can avoid the whining about BI-sexual since we now have progressed from BI-nary computing to HEX-ADECIMAL SEX programming so we can have it sixteen ways if we like. Just be nice, be polite and tolerate others. My preferences are small groups of senior swingers, in the same room, with mirrors and mirth.

    The 3some is the easiest to "get started" since the interpersonal dynamics seem the easiest to "add just one more personality" to a loving couple. And to progress from mere net talk to fun action in the bedroom. Does that make us POLYAMORY or TRI-SEXUAL?

    Not necessarily, and not for the long term..... IMHO.

    The Bisexuals whom I know on this site and in real life, seem to like 3somes the best, since it's easier to "go guy on guy" or "girl on girl" in a small group with the other partners, sharing and urging on the action. Maybe that makes us, politely, PHOTOSEXUAL?

    We like to watch adult erotica (not raw porn) and copy the action: bi, bi, small orgies, 3, 4, 5, college reunions of adults.... does that make us MOVIESEXUAL?

    Tenni, nice thread you started HERE AS THE OP.... we don't need to split hairs, do we? I shaved all mine off............... PROOF AT THE NEXT LIVE PARTY..... Call me anytime! LOL

    FredinSJ
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  2. #32

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by tenni View Post
    I have to wonder what Anika and Marie are carrying on about? I asked if people found themselves to be bisexual or pansexual. There is a difference whether pansexuality is a subgroup or a separate group of sexuality.

    I think that it is a distraction to carry on with this argument about whether pansexuals are a subgroup. Why?
    LOLOL, tenni, yes, of course it is a distraction! I said in my first post here that it was splitting hairs and an unnecessary fine point. Why? You made the claim that Marie was "pansexual and not bisexual"...that struck me as impossible, given your definitions and I said so...and then explained why...and then re-explained.

    *You* are the one who keeps going on insisting that clock-radios aren't a kind of clock. And *I* keep asking myself, why?

    Finally, as anyone who looks at my name can tell...it has two n's.
    I hope my achievements in life shall be these: that I will have fought for what was right and fair, that I will have risked for that which mattered, that I will have given help to those who were in need...that I will have left the earth a better place for what I've done and who I've been. (C. Hoppe)

  3. #33

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annika L View Post
    LOLOL, tenni, yes, of course it is a distraction! I said in my first post here that it was splitting hairs and an unnecessary fine point. Why? You made the claim that Marie was "pansexual and not bisexual"...that struck me as impossible, given your definitions and I said so...and then explained why...and then re-explained.

    *You* are the one who keeps going on insisting that clock-radios aren't a kind of clock. And *I* keep asking myself, why?

    Finally, as anyone who looks at my name can tell...it has two n's.
    Agreed.

  4. #34

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    I appreciate this debate! I do think there's a lot of hairsplitting going on, which I myself am quite often guilty of, but I think the benefit of this discussion is raising the awareness of gender and/or sexual identities that are often unacknowledged in our language. I have identified as bisexual for 20 years, but have in the last few years begun to shift my understanding of attraction, sex, and gender to include persons who might not be "man" or "woman". I like the term pansexual and think it is a better fit for me than bisexual, but I haven't taken up the habit of using it. At this point in my life I think using a new term to describe myself would be too much of a hassle, despite the fact that I think it would be useful for perpetuating awareness and discussion about the continuum of human sexuality and gender. However, I do use Queer more often than I use bisexual and while I do fear it obscures my own orientation (people might think of me as a friend of the BTGL community rather than being non heterosexual myself) I find the term to be the most inclusive term for discussing marginalization and oppression. Queer also has academic and political associations that make it easier to facilitate discussion.
    The most frustrating aspect of all this (language, labels, etc.) is that I'm all too aware of how invisibility is an important aspect of "liberation" and social justice, so I always fell compelled to specify my orientation when it comes up. I can't just say "queer" and let people figure it out. I'm afraid, as I said, they'll just file me away under "weird" or "ally" and not question their own either/or dichotomy. *sigh* I think I'm doing this less and less, though.

  5. #35

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Sorry, I read all this and it made my head heart. I like sex with women, I occasionally like sex with men, I occasionally like sex with a pre-op shemale. I like sex. I guess that makes me sexual.

  6. #36

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    rolls eyes....

    ok.... from a professional definition.....and this is how they were defined from a counseling point of view

    a bisexual is a person that is attracted to both genders, however, the level of attraction is isolated to certain aspects of a person of either gender, IE, bear males, cougar females etc etc etc and often characterized by attraction on set levels, IE not emotional or mental but sexual.... or emotional and sexual but not mentally

    a pansexual lacks the isolating factor, they are comfortable with a person of a broader range of gender identity, appearance and covering the emotional, mental and sexual ranges, and their contact with others is often not based around what is between the persons legs, but the person themselves, regarding of gender status or sexual ID ( male, female, intersex, asexual, trans, eunuch...)

    now a clear difference between a pansexual and a bisexual is the fuild sexuality.....pansexuals are generally not fuild, bisexuals are....

    it breaks down like this

    hetero...............pansexual............gay / lesbian
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<bisexual>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    hetero>>>>>>> sexual fetish<<<<<<gay /lesbian

    the pansexual is not a subset of bisexual..... cos bisexuality is 90% sexual fetish, not actual attraction and desire to a person, but a desire to suck cock or lick a vagina..... and yes I know people hate hearing that.... but its bisexuals themselves that have proven it to be true

    what makes bisexuality a subset of pan sexuality, is the more defining range of the bisexual.... they are more likely to find a partnership with a partner of the opposite sex, and only a brief encounter with the same sex.
    they are less likely to seek out a on going contact on a emotional and mental level with people of the same gender.... and they are more likely to choose suitable sex partners based around looks and gender....

    a pansexual is * blind * to many of the differences in people that a bisexual will see..... and a pansexual is far less likely to seek just sexual contact with a same sex partner.....

    a simple way of looking at it is this
    a bisexual will say " god I wanna suck their cock, eat their pussy but I am not interested in diversity or commitment"
    a pansexual will say " I am attracted to everybody, I love being with them and want to be with them more "

    now back earlier I referred to 90% of bisexuality being about a sexual fetish
    the other 10% are the ones that are between bi and pan sexuality.....
    they are the ones that people think about when they refer to bisexuality.... cos its how we want bisexuality to be seen....... but its not how society sees bisexuality, they see us for what we really are
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  7. #37

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by tenni View Post
    Just

    Well, I guess that I'm a quack and a transexual hating guy eh?
    You are not a quack but your reference is pure quackery. I never said you hate tg ppl I said you have no interest having sex with tg ppl. SO JEEZus to you. I will say again, I am not against you in anyway here. You are free to like who you like. I am no one too judge you. Please don't take my stand with the argument personally. If I have personally insulted you then I sincerely apologize! I meant my questions sincerely and not as an attack. I really do want to know why anyone cares for more labels? what is the point of it?

    I think we should all just have a nice giant orgy and forget the whole fight. Love not war


  8. #38

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Void sits watching all the din, smiles. "I can have sex with anyone and it's good sex. Great sex is when you love the other person, too. And I could probably love anyone. I might not quite see much use of cross dressing for me but others might like it. Please don't misinterpret this as me saying, 'come on all you cross dressers, flock to and hit on me'. I'm not really interested in cross dressers, just not my taste. Maybe if I gradually got to know you ... but even then, not really interested."

    Got a guy, and gal. I'm happy. I wouldn't run away screaming from a transformer. In fact I might actually enjoy their company to the fullest. I don't care bout the words you wanna pin on me. I enjoy the love, the sex, and in the sex I prefer keeping it real and simple ... love pleasing and being pleased. Your words are just hollow and useless bits of ammunition used by folks that usually are haters, takers. Those folks rule, or try to, by the divide and conquer strategy. Sorry, get over it, our house won't fall. Now be off with you to tempt running amuck in mine fields elsewhere. Thanks, have a nice day.

  9. #39

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong View Post
    rolls eyes....

    ok.... from a professional definition.....and this is how they were defined from a counseling point of view

    a bisexual is a person that is attracted to both genders, however, the level of attraction is isolated to certain aspects of a person of either gender, IE, bear males, cougar females etc etc etc and often characterized by attraction on set levels, IE not emotional or mental but sexual.... or emotional and sexual but not mentally

    a pansexual lacks the isolating factor, they are comfortable with a person of a broader range of gender identity, appearance and covering the emotional, mental and sexual ranges, and their contact with others is often not based around what is between the persons legs, but the person themselves, regarding of gender status or sexual ID ( male, female, intersex, asexual, trans, eunuch...)
    Well Long not sure what professional group you are referring to but the american psychological association has the following official definition:

    "Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive heterosexuality to exclusive homosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality. Bisexual persons can experience sexual, emotional, and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex"

    additionally:

    The APA states that there are three possible sexual orientations:

    1. Heterosexuals are attracted to persons of the opposite sex only.
    2. Homosexuals are attracted to persons of the same sex only.
    3. Bisexuals are attracted to both men and women, although not necessarily to the same degree.

    The bolded part of your statement is not recognized by the APA as part of the orientation scale.

  10. #40

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Well, I think that everyone does, and should, pick their own way of defining themselves. I don't think anyone can, or should, tell a person what the word they have chosen means and they must adhere to that. There are many reasons to use labels and ALL of them are personal. I might struggle to fit a person's behavior into a label that makes sense to me, but I make a point to never tell someone, or even refer to someone in third person, with a label they didn't choose for themselves. Saying that someone IS a bisexual based on what I know about them just feels the same to me as ALL THE TIMES people have told me I'm NOT a bisexual.
    The difference between pansexual and bisexual is based on what that word means to the person who is using it. A person can identify as gay or straight and have sex with whoever they want.
    Now, I think, as I said, there are political and cultural reasons to use labels, which is why I am deliberate in what words I use. My purpose, then, is what effect I think that word will have on the other person, not how accurately my behavior fits a standard definition of that word.

  11. #41

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Last year i defined myself as pansexual, but right about now im just defying myself as being me. If a person likes me then yay thats ok i can deal with that, if i liked them back then we can both deal with it.
    Class, race, sexuality, gender and all other categories by which we categorize and dismiss each other need to be excavated from the inside.


    Dorothy Allison quote.

  12. #42

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by nakedheathen View Post
    Sorry, I read all this and it made my head heart. I like sex with women, I occasionally like sex with men, I occasionally like sex with a pre-op shemale. I like sex. I guess that makes me sexual.
    I've always considered myself a sexual being...Often that isn't easy to explain to someone. For me, it is just easier to say that I'm bisexual
    Last edited by csreef; May 17, 2010 at 1:59 PM. Reason: too many words

  13. #43

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post
    You are not a quack but your reference is pure quackery. I never said you hate tg ppl I said you have no interest having sex with tg ppl. SO JEEZus to you. I will say again, I am not against you in anyway here. You are free to like who you like. I am no one too judge you. Please don't take my stand with the argument personally. If I have personally insulted you then I sincerely apologize! I meant my questions sincerely and not as an attack. I really do want to know why anyone cares for more labels? what is the point of it?

    I think we should all just have a nice giant orgy and forget the whole fight. Love not war

    I'm with you, generally speaking.

    I do not care for people defining their actions by the labels that they or others have applied to themselves. I much prefer for people to act in accordance with what feels right to them...at any given time...preferably within the confines of the law (but not necessarily, if it hurts no one). And that is how I try to behave myself.

    But to address your sincere question, there is one legitimate use of labels that I see: they *can* aid conversation.

    Every noun is in fact a label. We talk about dogs, but we also talk about shepherds, collies, pointers, retrievers, etc., and for the most part, we don't fight about what those terms mean...but the dogs hate being labeled that way...they feel it puts unreasonable expectations on them. You ever wondered what that resentful stare was about? Surprisingly, it had nothing to do with the burger you ate in front of him...it's because you called him a golden retriever in front of the neighbors, and now he feels like you're trying to label him into some damned box where he has to enjoy stepping and fetching for you any time any where...it's just pressure, man.

    But cows are pissed off that we even use the label "dog", because they feel our usage of it excludes them...and they (of course) consider themselves the most highly evolved form of dog. So we're not the only species to decry the use of labels.

    Until fairly recently in human development (I *believe* I read it was 1800's or even 1900's), we did not have a word for homosexuals (let alone heterosexuals), and certainly no special language for bisexuals. I guess we were a combination of not worthy of talking about, and not all that much on people's radar screens. But eventually, people got interested in us...or we got interested in ourselves...or something. Basically, people got interested in talking about sex and sexuality. At that point, people noted that some are interested just in the opposite sex, where some are interested just in the same sex, and still others are interested in the cows and dogs, and...you get the picture.

    When people detect a meaningful difference among individuals or things, and want to talk about those differences, it is useful to give names (labels, if you will) to the differences. Thus arose words like heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, and eventually pansexual, omnisexual, and maybe some day macrosexual, terrasexual, and galatisexual.

    But there is a twofold difficulty:

    (1) Some people don't like to think, and so they try to figure out what label applies to them, and then act in accordance with that label. *shakes head sadly*

    (2) Some words are either so new or so unused in ordinary public discourse that there is a fair amount of confusion over what they mean...and/or worse, more than one "official definition" for them.

    That is why, rather than debate tenni's definitions, I just accepted them and drew conclusions based on them: I figured if those definitions made sense to him, they were clear and so could be used in conversation (and frankly, they seemed in accordance with the APA definitions I'd always heard). Seems he didn't like some of the conclusions that could be drawn from them. Oh well...definitions don't always behave as we'd like. But if you are going to have discourse that uses a set of labels, it is *very* important that all people involved use the words to mean the same thing...otherwise you can't know what a person means when they write, and the words lose all meaning.

    So I disagree with some here that labels are meaningless: they have whatever meaning we give them. And I disagree with some here that labels are useless: they are useful tools for distinguishing different ideas and properties in discourse. I am not a person who hates labels...I just give them the respect they deserve and not an ounce more. We have so many arguments in here that run "don't label me X! I don't see myself as X!", when the person's own words clearly fit all standard definitions of X...well, honey, I hate to tell you, but by the definition of X, that's what you are...I'm not labeling you...your actions label you.

    So the next time you wonder about the usefulness of labels, try to utter one meaningful sentence without using one.

    And by the way, thanks for your reply to LDD as well.
    I hope my achievements in life shall be these: that I will have fought for what was right and fair, that I will have risked for that which mattered, that I will have given help to those who were in need...that I will have left the earth a better place for what I've done and who I've been. (C. Hoppe)

  14. #44

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Why are you worried about what label to wear? Be kind to people, make the world a little better, and just go get laid.

  15. #45

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Not only that, but some labels are so basic as to defy definition.

    Ever try to define "Man" and "woman"?

    You say you are attracted to "men" but, what does that mean, really?
    A person with a penis? What if someone with xy chromosomes loses his penis in an accident , does tht make him less desirable or more so?
    What if their penis is so small that it is pratically non-existant? What about someone who appears male, but has xxy chrosomes?


    What does woman mean? Does that mean someone who is capabal of bearing children? What about xx persons who arent capable of bearing children? What about persons who from all outward appearance show that they are female, but who have xy chromosomes?

    When you start mucking about with gender labels it becomes quite clear that (some) labels are quite meaningless.
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.
    —A. A. Milne
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY

  16. #46

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post
    Well Long not sure what professional group you are referring to but the american psychological association has the following official definition:

    "Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive heterosexuality to exclusive homosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality. Bisexual persons can experience sexual, emotional, and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex"

    additionally:

    The APA states that there are three possible sexual orientations:

    1. Heterosexuals are attracted to persons of the opposite sex only.
    2. Homosexuals are attracted to persons of the same sex only.
    3. Bisexuals are attracted to both men and women, although not necessarily to the same degree.

    The bolded part of your statement is not recognized by the APA as part of the orientation scale.
    I use the international standard of guidelines for counsellors and therapists..... the APA applies to the us, there is a world outside of the us
    and I live in a country where we recognize sexuality diversity and same sex marriage.....

    the fact that the APA doesn't recognize some aspects of sexuality, is on the same level as some states in the us, not recognizing that gays and lesbian and trans are people too....
    Last edited by Long Duck Dong; May 17, 2010 at 9:36 PM.
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  17. #47

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarieDelta View Post
    Not only that, but some labels are so basic as to defy definition.

    Ever try to define "Man" and "woman"?

    You say you are attracted to "men" but, what does that mean, really?
    A person with a penis? What if someone with xy chromosomes loses his penis in an accident , does tht make him less desirable or more so?
    What if their penis is so small that it is pratically non-existant? What about someone who appears male, but has xxy chrosomes?


    What does woman mean? Does that mean someone who is capabal of bearing children? What about xx persons who arent capable of bearing children? What about persons who from all outward appearance show that they are female, but who have xy chromosomes?

    When you start mucking about with gender labels it becomes quite clear that (some) labels are quite meaningless.
    nice post marie and I agree...... the term * attraction to males or females * misses the mark a lot.... as it implies that we are attracted to males and females.... not aspects of the male and female genders....

    some people like *bears * some don't etc..... so is the person attracted to bear males only, or all males.... yadda yadda....
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  18. #48

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Tenni,

    I have been reading this thread with interest and I wouldn't post now except for something that is bothering me. You asked an honest question and with the exception of a few people answering you are now getting bashed for labeling. That doesn't seem quite fair to me. If no one questioned anything this world would be a very sad and boring place.

    My two cents

    TT

  19. #49

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    I identify as bisexual myself.

    Personally, on a sexual level, I like guys who are guys and girls who are girls. I've thus far not noticed any sexual feelings towards trans or inter-sexed or androgynous or such. I've friends who fall in these grey area categories, but have never felt sexually drawn to them. So, by my understanding of the two terms (bi- and pansexuality) I would still identify as bisexual.
    beautifully non-discriminatory
    It's not just black and white, but many beautiful shades of gray

  20. #50

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong View Post
    I use the international standard of guidelines for counsellors and therapists..... the APA applies to the us, there is a world outside of the us
    and I live in a country where we recognize sexuality diversity and same sex marriage.....

    the fact that the APA doesn't recognize some aspects of sexuality, is on the same level as some states in the us, not recognizing that gays and lesbian and trans are people too....
    Well first off (smart ass) I am aware there are places in the world other then the USA and to your point I present this from the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO)...

    Bisexual: is an individual who is sexually and emotionally attracted to men and women. Bisexual people need not have had a sexual experience at all to identify as bisexual.

    Now that is out of the way. Can you please submit an actual reference from said "International standards etc" As there are many such international groups and a google search was unable to find such a statement by any international doctorate based group. Nowhere can I find any group that states that bisexual is defined as "a bisexual is a person that is attracted to both genders, however, the level of attraction is isolated to certain aspects of a person of either gender, IE, bear males, cougar females etc etc etc and often characterized by attraction on set levels, IE not emotional or mental but sexual.... or emotional and sexual but not mentally" so please provide a link this group, their standards etc..

    Now here in the USA there are many groups that claim to be "counselors and therapist" however these terms have very little actual meaning. In fact the only terms that have validity in all 50 states are Psychologist and Psychiatrist. Both require a doctorate level education. While counselor and therapist does not have such requirement. Another example, here in California the term "nutritionist" has no official meaning but "Dietitian" requires graduate level education in nutrition and state certification. In fact the state says a "nutritionist" is anyone who eats! Therefore, anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. Same for the terms "counselor and therapist" So I am not trying to be a punk here I am simply asking for an actual reference. I want to know who is the group that wrote said "international standard". Does membership in said group require a PHD?

    For now lets say your ref is accurate to a internationally known body. Then it proves my point even more. The more we delineate the more we attempt to place people in groups. Then we can judge them as in-groups or out-groups (ie good and bad) The APA lists sexuality as it does because of the extreme diversity of human sexuality and does not want their psychologists making too many predisposed judgements when treating clients. In terms of diversity, the APA statement (orientation is a scale from straight to gay) allows for far more shades of grey.

    Someone coming into a "therapist" who says I am Bisexual in your system would be labeled as lacking of connection and have a sexual perversion. but you label someone as PAN and you think they must be ok. BUT what if the person just didn't know YOUR label and mis-identified themselves. Then what?

    Looking forward to some actual references to your grand statements

  21. #51

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annika L View Post
    I'm with you, generally speaking.

    ...But to address your sincere question, there is one legitimate use of labels that I see: they *can* aid conversation.
    Point well taken and I pretty much said as much in my very first post. It does help to have labels as a potential jumping off point in conversation. But it is the assigned judgement that bothers me. The danger is we don't stop to check what the labels mean to the other person. Example, you say you like cats and rather then check with you I assume you don't like dogs and from that point forward my interaction with you is tainted by my assumption. In fact I like dogs so you must not be like me. I bet I am better then you... etc etc.

    I call myself (for the sake of others bisexual but really I am trisexual... I will try anything once) now does that mean I will have sex with anyone? hell no. Does it mean I am confused? nope. Does it mean I cheat on my partner? no again. Does it mean sex always has connection and meaning or is always just animalistic. also no. So what is the point? I think we ask all this to find common ground. For some sort of social support. Kind of like, I tell you I like to ride mountain bikes and you say cool me too? want to ride sometime? or you walk away and say he is one of "those" cyclist and think you know how THEY are. I think ppl on the middle of the kinsy scale have it the worst in terms of labels and judgements. Gay judgement "just lying to themselves not real gay like us" or str8 saying "just come out already" so to have yet another label within "Our group" is crazy to me. Chris Rock has a great joke "what do black ppl think of Jews" to which he replys "I am scared of white ppl I don't have time to break them into groups"

  22. #52

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post
    Point well taken and I pretty much said as much in my very first post. It does help to have labels as a potential jumping off point in conversation. But it is the assigned judgement that bothers me. The danger is we don't stop to check what the labels mean to the other person. Example, you say you like cats and rather then check with you I assume you don't like dogs and from that point forward my interaction with you is tainted by my assumption. In fact I like dogs so you must not be like me. I bet I am better then you... etc etc.

    I call myself (for the sake of others bisexual but really I am trisexual... I will try anything once) now does that mean I will have sex with anyone? hell no. Does it mean I am confused? nope. Does it mean I cheat on my partner? no again. Does it mean sex always has connection and meaning or is always just animalistic. also no. So what is the point? I think we ask all this to find common ground. For some sort of social support. Kind of like, I tell you I like to ride mountain bikes and you say cool me too? want to ride sometime? or you walk away and say he is one of "those" cyclist and think you know how THEY are. I think ppl on the middle of the kinsy scale have it the worst in terms of labels and judgements. Gay judgement "just lying to themselves not real gay like us" or str8 saying "just come out already" so to have yet another label within "Our group" is crazy to me. Chris Rock has a great joke "what do black ppl think of Jews" to which he replys "I am scared of white ppl I don't have time to break them into groups"
    I think I love you.

    Yes, exactly! Anyone who makes assumptions and assigns judgments about another person based simply on language, rather than actual behavior, is treading on very thin ice.

    But to defend the point of the thread just the tiniest bit, I don't think tenni is advocating widespread use of even more labels...he is merely recognizing a distinction that actually exists in people, invoking the names that apply to both sides of that distinction, and (I think) trying to understand it better. One way to understand the difference is to take a bunch of people he knows (or kinda knows), and figure out which side of the distinction they fall on. At the very least, he then knows some people on both side with whom he can follow up privately later.

    Or I dunno...maybe he's just nosey.
    I hope my achievements in life shall be these: that I will have fought for what was right and fair, that I will have risked for that which mattered, that I will have given help to those who were in need...that I will have left the earth a better place for what I've done and who I've been. (C. Hoppe)

  23. #53

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post
    Well first off (smart ass) I am aware there are places in the world other then the USA and to your point I present this from the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO)...

    Bisexual: is an individual who is sexually and emotionally attracted to men and women. Bisexual people need not have had a sexual experience at all to identify as bisexual.

    Now that is out of the way. Can you please submit an actual reference from said "International standards etc" As there are many such international groups and a google search was unable to find such a statement by any international doctorate based group. Nowhere can I find any group that states that bisexual is defined as "a bisexual is a person that is attracted to both genders, however, the level of attraction is isolated to certain aspects of a person of either gender, IE, bear males, cougar females etc etc etc and often characterized by attraction on set levels, IE not emotional or mental but sexual.... or emotional and sexual but not mentally" so please provide a link this group, their standards etc..

    Now here in the USA there are many groups that claim to be "counselors and therapist" however these terms have very little actual meaning. In fact the only terms that have validity in all 50 states are Psychologist and Psychiatrist. Both require a doctorate level education. While counselor and therapist does not have such requirement. Another example, here in California the term "nutritionist" has no official meaning but "Dietitian" requires graduate level education in nutrition and state certification. In fact the state says a "nutritionist" is anyone who eats! Therefore, anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. Same for the terms "counselor and therapist" So I am not trying to be a punk here I am simply asking for an actual reference. I want to know who is the group that wrote said "international standard". Does membership in said group require a PHD?

    For now lets say your ref is accurate to a internationally known body. Then it proves my point even more. The more we delineate the more we attempt to place people in groups. Then we can judge them as in-groups or out-groups (ie good and bad) The APA lists sexuality as it does because of the extreme diversity of human sexuality and does not want their psychologists making too many predisposed judgements when treating clients. In terms of diversity, the APA statement (orientation is a scale from straight to gay) allows for far more shades of grey.

    Someone coming into a "therapist" who says I am Bisexual in your system would be labeled as lacking of connection and have a sexual perversion. but you label someone as PAN and you think they must be ok. BUT what if the person just didn't know YOUR label and mis-identified themselves. Then what?

    Looking forward to some actual references to your grand statements
    ok, see the country beside my name, it says NZ, not US..... now that may help you with understanding that I am not in the us, so the us standard, doesn't apply to me......

    now the terms bi and pansexual are used to define the difference between a person that would go with a male and female only, and a person that would include trans and intersex as possible partners.......

    its that simple....

    as for the international standard ..... if you didn't find it, I am not surprised...... cos its a book not a website, and its used by a number of countries, all of whom also allow and endorse same sex marriage..... thats probably the reason why you can not find it in the us

    now what we would do is not label anybody..... remember its not like the us here, we actually talk to people, not assign them a number
    we would talk to them about the bi / pansexual differences and LET THEM decide what one they feel, better suits them......

    under the us defination, a person that is not sexually active, is the same as a person that is sexually active and married, and has casual partners.... and those two are the same as a person in a poly marriage, and those all are the same as a person that has never married, been celibate for a few years, yet doesn't see the world in terms of male and female, but sees the complete diversity of the human gender spectrum.....

    I have noticed in the site, that people have been refering to themselves as bi curious cos they have not had sex at all with the same sex.... and under your apa term, they are bisexual.... and I have watched bisexuals tell them that they are not allowed to refer to themselves as bisexual as they have no proof they are

    now I have offered people a understanding of the term bi and pan sexual.... its up to them how they define themselves...not me......
    I call myself a bisexual even tho I id as a pansexual, cos of people like you that think I may be wrong for using the term that best fits my lifestyle as I live it...... but its my life, I live it, hence I will use whatever term I want to, and if others have a issue with that.... fine, thats their issue, not mine......
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  24. #54

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post

    Someone coming into a "therapist" who says I am Bisexual in your system would be labeled as lacking of connection and have a sexual perversion. but you label someone as PAN and you think they must be ok. BUT what if the person just didn't know YOUR label and mis-identified themselves. Then what?
    now I will answer this separately,

    if I was still working in a professional capacity and you came to me with concerns about your sexuality, I would sit and let you talk about yourself, I would ask questions to clarify what I do not understand....but mostly I would let you talk..... I would not label you..... I would show you a chart that breaks down bisexuality in to groups like bi curious, and bi sexual and pan sexual......and then let you talk about your viewpoint on each of the definitions.... and how you feel they apply to you.......and if they apply to you

    I would like to see where you would get labelled as a person with a sexual perversion... as there is not... unless you are a sexual deviant ( necro, pedo )

    the last I knew, a male sucking a persons cock or fucking another male in the ass was not a perversion..... unless you live in the us, where in some states, its still illegal to commit sodomy....

    so as you can see, there is not a issue with people, only people that create issues with their lack of understanding on things...... thats why I do not generally refer to myself as pansexual..... its other peoples refusal to accept my own label for me, that is the issue, but I am not strictly bisexual...
    in order to refer to myself as bisexual, then intersex / eunuchs need to stop refering to themselves as the third gender.... as bisexuals are attracted to male and female.... pansexuals are attracted to all the genders...
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  25. #55

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarieDelta View Post
    Not only that, but some labels are so basic as to defy definition.

    Ever try to define "Man" and "woman"?

    You say you are attracted to "men" but, what does that mean, really?
    A person with a penis? What if someone with xy chromosomes loses his penis in an accident , does tht make him less desirable or more so?
    What if their penis is so small that it is pratically non-existant? What about someone who appears male, but has xxy chrosomes?


    What does woman mean? Does that mean someone who is capabal of bearing children? What about xx persons who arent capable of bearing children? What about persons who from all outward appearance show that they are female, but who have xy chromosomes?

    When you start mucking about with gender labels it becomes quite clear that (some) labels are quite meaningless.
    That reminds me of a Julia Roberts movie, where she plays a lawyer who is trying to make a case about a factory tht poisoned the water suply and gave everybody cancer.

    Anyway there is a funny scene where a cancer surviver asks her crying "if a woman has bo breast or uterus can se still be called a woman?"

    And Julia's character says "yes and a damn lucky one who doesn't have to deal with underwire bras or maxi pads/tampons."

    Sorry I just had to bring that up

  26. #56

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    I was gonna point this out earlier, but I was a lil busy.....

    here are official definitions of bisexuals by two different groups

    The APA states that there are three possible sexual orientations:

    1. Heterosexuals are attracted to persons of the opposite sex only.
    2. Homosexuals are attracted to persons of the same sex only.
    3. Bisexuals are attracted to both men and women, although not necessarily to the same degree.

    United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO)...

    Bisexual: is an individual who is sexually and emotionally attracted to men and women. Bisexual people need not have had a sexual experience at all to identify as bisexual.

    one definition sets bisexuality as a emotional and sexual attraction, that would make most of the male bisexuals in the same, NOT bisexual at all, as they have no emotional connection to the same gender, just the desire to suck cocks....

    the other definition would label them as bisexual and others that are not bisexual, they just find the male and female forms to be enjoyable to be around

    the same can said with the trans umbrella, a person that wears female underpants cos they are comfortable, can be covered under the trans umbrella, yet they are neither crossdressing inclined, trans, female impersonating etc etc etc....

    so depending on what guidelines a person is using to id you, you may or may not actually exist, or you may exist as something you are not......

    so people, you are who you say you are and what you ID as.... its your life.... the ones that disagree, are the ones that do not know you like you know yourself
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  27. #57

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong View Post
    ok, see the country beside my name, it says NZ, not US..... now that may help you with understanding that I am not in the us, so the us standard, doesn't apply to me......

    as for the international standard ..... if you didn't find it, I am not surprised...... cos its a book not a website, and its used by a number of countries, all of whom also allow and endorse same sex marriage..... thats probably the reason why you can not find it in the us

    now what we would do is not label anybody..... remember its not like the us here, we actually talk to people, not assign them a number
    we would talk to them about the bi / pansexual differences and LET THEM decide what one they feel, better suits them......

    I have noticed in the site, that people have been refering to themselves as bi curious cos they have not had sex at all with the same sex.... and under your apa term, they are bisexual.... and I have watched bisexuals tell them that they are not allowed to refer to themselves as bisexual as they have no proof they are

    now I have offered people a understanding of the term bi and pan sexual.... its up to them how they define themselves...not me......
    I call myself a bisexual even tho I id as a pansexual, cos of people like you that think I may be wrong for using the term that best fits my lifestyle as I live it...... but its my life, I live it, hence I will use whatever term I want to, and if others have a issue with that.... fine, thats their issue, not mine......
    Ok Long, seriously are you smoking something down there? You have such a strong bias against what you think we do here in the USA. Have you been here? and if so have yo actually spoken to a psychologist here? your statement show extreme ignorance regarding life in USA.

    I listed a international standard that you yourself (in a later post) then still and list as your own. WTF. And even in our backwoods un-enlightened borders we have access to books too. Name the book already where it defines as you claim "a bisexual is a person that is attracted to both genders, however, the level of attraction is isolated to certain aspects of a person of either gender, IE, bear males, cougar females etc etc etc and often characterized by attraction on set levels, IE not emotional or mental but sexual.... or emotional and sexual but not mentally" is stated.

    Your double speak would seem to say that this is YOUR personal interpretation. BTW that is fine bi me. I don't care what you call yourself. I am only responding to your insistence that you have "THE" international definition of "bisexual"

    So if you tell me you are "jack-in-box sexual" and I ask what is that and you tell me I will simply say "cool bi me" labael yourself what ever you like. cool no problem. BUT you insisted "you might not like it but 90% blah blah blah" as being fact. But you provide no actual proof. so stop boring me with the "we accept gay marriage unlike the USA" crap.

    If you want to talk about your opinion then I have nothing to say to that. You can have your opinion and I will have mine. But I am clear with others that it is only that, an opinion. When I state something as fact I will at least provide the ref and not hide behind well it is a book and they don'y have those in NZ. What a load of crap here. So list the book, the group, the publishing number (unless down there they only use crayons and don't actually publish) oh just say it is your opinion I will shut the hell up no problem.

    And no psychologist here would give the client a list and say here pick one. Tell me what is the right label for you. That would be moronic.

    So again call yourself what you want it is your life I have no judgement on it what soever. Just be clear what is your life and opinion and what is "clinical fact" and we can move on to more interesting topics

  28. #58

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annika L View Post
    I think I love you.

    Yes, exactly! Anyone who makes assumptions and assigns judgments about another person based simply on language, rather than actual behavior, is treading on very thin ice.

    But to defend the point of the thread just the tiniest bit, I don't think tenni is advocating widespread use of even more labels...he is merely recognizing a distinction that actually exists in people, invoking the names that apply to both sides of that distinction, and (I think) trying to understand it better. One way to understand the difference is to take a bunch of people he knows (or kinda knows), and figure out which side of the distinction they fall on. At the very least, he then knows some people on both side with whom he can follow up privately later.

    Or I dunno...maybe he's just nosey.
    Ah shucks

    I see I was a bit harsh with Tenni hence my sincere apology. To me if someone acknowledges themselves as some how outside the norm, well that is a big enough statement for me. Then I want to be closer and know what it means to them. If an open minded person says they are "st8" and can sustain the discomfort of a conversation, that is awesome too.

    Or perhaps I too am just nosey

  29. #59

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by just4mefc View Post
    Ok Long, seriously are you smoking something down there? You have such a strong bias against what you think we do here in the USA. Have you been here? and if so have yo actually spoken to a psychologist here? your statement show extreme ignorance regarding life in USA.

    I listed a international standard that you yourself (in a later post) then still and list as your own. WTF. And even in our backwoods un-enlightened borders we have access to books too. Name the book already where it defines as you claim "a bisexual is a person that is attracted to both genders, however, the level of attraction is isolated to certain aspects of a person of either gender, IE, bear males, cougar females etc etc etc and often characterized by attraction on set levels, IE not emotional or mental but sexual.... or emotional and sexual but not mentally" is stated.

    Your double speak would seem to say that this is YOUR personal interpretation. BTW that is fine bi me. I don't care what you call yourself. I am only responding to your insistence that you have "THE" international definition of "bisexual"

    So if you tell me you are "jack-in-box sexual" and I ask what is that and you tell me I will simply say "cool bi me" labael yourself what ever you like. cool no problem. BUT you insisted "you might not like it but 90% blah blah blah" as being fact. But you provide no actual proof. so stop boring me with the "we accept gay marriage unlike the USA" crap.

    If you want to talk about your opinion then I have nothing to say to that. You can have your opinion and I will have mine. But I am clear with others that it is only that, an opinion. When I state something as fact I will at least provide the ref and not hide behind well it is a book and they don'y have those in NZ. What a load of crap here. So list the book, the group, the publishing number (unless down there they only use crayons and don't actually publish) oh just say it is your opinion I will shut the hell up no problem.

    And no psychologist here would give the client a list and say here pick one. Tell me what is the right label for you. That would be moronic.

    So again call yourself what you want it is your life I have no judgement on it what soever. Just be clear what is your life and opinion and what is "clinical fact" and we can move on to more interesting topics
    I am not biased at all, I was questioning how two different definitions by two different groups can define the same thing in two totally different ways,
    the unesco and apa definations

    now my opinion is I am pansexual... thats it..... my opinion is not who else is what..... cos I do not care.....

    as for my bias..... what bias.... I have no issues with what you do in the usa.... but do not apply us rulings to me, please, I am not in the us, I do not belong to or am I part of the apa..... and nor do I need to see any person in the us

    right, let me clear something up for you

    I have asked people to define themselves as they see themselves, I do not tell them what they are, they tell me.....
    but in the site I have watched a number of people come into the site and ask for help to define themselves and their sexuality as the terms they have found as too confusing.......
    and then I have watched bisexuals in the site, tell people they are not bisexual cos they do not fit * the criteria * for being bisexual...... go after heteros for not defining themselves as bi.... telling people they are bi and not admitting / accepting it.... having no right to call themselves bisexual as they have no proof they are bisexual etc etc
    and most of them doing that are us citizens.......

    that is why I questioned the two definitions you posted on bisexuals, the apa and the unesco.... they are both different.....

    there are actually 7 different levels of bisexuality.... that can be used to define the stage of bisexuality..... ranging from the bi latent to the bi curious, to the bi exploring right thru to the bi secure.....

    they do not break things down in terms of attraction on emotional / mental / sexual levels..... but if you research the terms of sexual fetish, you will find that a bisexual with a non mental / non emtional desire to suck cocks only, is also a sexual fetish.... and under the unesco defination of bisexual, is not bisexual, but a person with a sexual fetish.....

    now I do not make the definitions and nor do I care about them

    what I defined was the difference between pan and bi sexual.....
    as a pan sexual, I am as content with a enunch / asexual / trans / intersex as I am with a male and female..... most bisexuals however do not extend that far, they like their clear male and female gender types, not anything that blurs the lines......

    now what I have, is a book.... something you read, not a website, and I brought and paid for it when I was working in the counselling and therapy fields, as part of the required tools, I have no idea if it is able to be purchased from any online bookstore as I had to provide a registered ID number with my order, as some books are restricted reading

    but I will say one thing.... your attitude, and telling me that I do not know what I am talking about..... thats actually a common thing in the forum now.... and 99% of the time, its us citizens telling people from other countries that they have no idea what they are talking about, cos people are not from the us or using the us resources or doing things to the us standards....
    so I ask you..... if my opinion is just a opinion.... and not something you care about.... then why are you stating that I should speak to the pysch there in the us..... when as I have stated, I do not live in the us, or follow the us way of life
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  30. #60

    Re: Are you Bisexual or Pansexual?

    Quote Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong View Post
    I am not biased at all....

    ...if my opinion is just a opinion.... and not something you care about.... then why are you stating that I should speak to the pysch there in the us..... when as I have stated, I do not live in the us, or follow the us way of life
    Um...for the same reason it would be good for us in the US to spend some time abroad...'cause you spend an awful lot of time bitching about us, while evidencing that you don't actually know a lot about us?

    And I'm not sure that any person's statement that they are not biased can ever hold any weight. If I am biased, then I may or may not be aware of it. Hence, if I *feel* unbiased, I may or may not be. My bias is ascertained by others through my actions. If someone accuses me of bias based on my actions, it is more meaningful for me to look within and question how I might actually be biased, than it is to simply deny being biased at all. Same for you.
    I hope my achievements in life shall be these: that I will have fought for what was right and fair, that I will have risked for that which mattered, that I will have given help to those who were in need...that I will have left the earth a better place for what I've done and who I've been. (C. Hoppe)

 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Back to Top