Bisexual Men and the Closet

[iamgarbanzo]

I'm curious as to how many bi men on the site are out and how many are closeted. I know that there are lots of identities between totally out and totally closeted. (i'm out to my wife, and a few old friends. i was more out as a younger man, when i was closer to the homo end of the spectrum).

my vague impression is that most bi men remain totally closeted for life. probably a smaller number are out to their partners. relatively few are totally out.

my other vague impression is the closer a bi man is to the homo end of the spectrum, the more likely to be out he is. there's not much reason for a Kinsey 1 bi man to be out. while a Kinsey 4 or 5 man might have much more reason to participate openly in the queer community. he might not be bothered by losing opportunities to date straight women, and appreciate that gay men (and, perhaps, bi women) are more likely to date him.

what do people have to say?

[jamieknyc]

I'm curious as to how many bi men on the site are out and how many are closeted. I know that there are lots of identities between totally out and totally closeted. (i'm out to my wife, and a few old friends. i was more out as a younger man, when i was closer to the homo end of the spectrum).

my vague impression is that most bi men remain totally closeted for life. probably a smaller number are out to their partners. relatively few are totally out.

my other vague impression is the closer a bi man is to the homo end of the spectrum, the more likely to be out he is. there's not much reason for a Kinsey 1 bi man to be out. while a Kinsey 4 or 5 man might have much more reason to participate openly in the queer community. he might not be bothered by losing opportunities to date straight women, and appreciate that gay men (and, perhaps, bi women) are more likely to date him.

what do people have to say?

I wouldn't assume that. Someone could be a Kinsey 4 and not want family, neighbors, coworkers etc. to know what they do. Conversely, someone could be only marginally bi and participate in LGBT activities, especially if they live in a large city.

[iamgarbanzo]

I wouldn't assume that. Someone could be a Kinsey 4 and not want family, neighbors, coworkers etc. to know what they do. Conversely, someone could be only marginally bi and participate in LGBT activities, especially if they live in a large city.

Good point, Jamie. Social context matters. I'm curious, why would someone who is "marginally bi" want to participate in LGBT activities? (Political causes would be an exception). My experience is that they tend to be pretty oriented to Kinsey 6 types, especially in regards to men. I don't how a bi man in a hetero relationship would fit into that world. (My wife, a self-described "fag hag," would strongly object to my being "out," because she doesn't want men hitting on me. Lying behind this are two underlying fears: her first boyfriend later came out as gay, and a lot of her gay male friends are HIV-positive.

[tenni]

Hi Iam
I agree with much that you write and in particular about being out reduces a guy's chance with women..lol

I tend to look at it as to be out does shut down options because most people in society are believers in the gay or straight binary rather than being bisexual or monosexual (gays and straights).

The entire premise of being out is a gay concept imo. There are a lot (marjority?) of bisexuals who prefer to see sexuality as a personal situation. It is no one elses business what a person's sexuality is unless they invite you to have sex or enter an emotional/sexual relationship.

I look at the entire Kinsey scale as a monosexual device. It asks people to place themselves on a monosexual contium rather than a simplier are you a bisexual who is attracted to both genders or a monosexual who is attracted to only one gender.

It is an entire mind shift to stop asking bisexuals to fit in to monosexual criteria and closets. Accept that yes you are attracted in some form to both genders and that makes you bisexual. Breaking it down to degrees of monosexuality is not relevant and due to fluid bisexual nature it can be a forms of denial of your bisexuality. The concept of shame is entangled in this attempt to see sexuality as degrees of attraction and argue that bisexuals are in a gay closet that they need to come out of.

There are arguments that come from a gay perspective that being out shows the world that there are normal people who are bisexual etc. There may be truth to that for gays but a less valid goal for bisexuals who would like to see the world less focused on who you have sex with or relationships with. Bisexuals should not have to pick a monosexual option that include in or out of a closet.

There is a chicken and egg issue with such thoughts though. How do you get a society to adapt a non in or out of the gay closet and simply accept that sexuality is a personal matter between people and no one elses business if no one bothers to 'spread" the word that closets are not for bisexuals?


It isn't being closeted. It is something different philosophy entirely for bisexuality.

[Browne]

I am neither "out" (which to me is some sort of verbal or texted proclaimation to anyone who will listen about the label I would theoretically want to be associated with to make it easy for people who don't like thinking), nor am I closeted (ashamed).

My sexuality is ambiguous. Which does not fit into your dichotomy you have laid out OP.


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[tenni]

I agree hardCell that the terms in or out of the closet have been ladened with shaming and pride. The ambiguity of not fitting into a monosexual dichotomy just does work for some/most bisexuals.

[fredtyg]

I've wrote here and elsewhere I see no reason to feel obliged to out one's self to anyone, except maybe the wife or S.O. in a relationship where that person has a vested interest. I can understand the position, though, of those who feel they can't tell their spouse.

I'm lucky in that the wife knows and kinda knew for decades as I dropped a series of subtle hints over time, which led to more obvious ones. We rarely discuss it, though.

While I see no need to out oneself generally, I do understand the need to "get things of one's chest", so to speak. Towards that end I've told a few people, sometimes on a whim. Others have found out through many indiscretions I've made over the years. I suspect probably hundreds know, most of whom I'm unaware of. I don't advertise it at all, at least in the person to person world.

If someone asked me directly, I'd like to think I'd be honest, but nobody ever has to my recollection.

Some years ago I got tired of hiding it. Not so much hiding it, but the fear of someone finding out and trying to use it against me somehow as I was what you could say pretty closeted at the time. I'd also become more than comfortable with my homosexual side and decided to stop going through hurdles trying to hide myself online.

With that in mind I have my interest on Facebook as in Men and Women and I post under my name, or regular e-mail address, in this and other queer forums. That Facebook thing was done more on a whim, but I was feeling frisky and went ahead with it. Nobody has ever brought it up.

But I'll admit to not being totally comfortable with it. I made a post in a bi Yahoo group the other day and noticed just going to the home page of that group showed the post under my full and last name where the casual observer could see it. That was a bit much for me. I don't mind my name in messages that go to the group. I didn't really want it seen by someone casually cruising through the groups so changed my profile so it only showed my first name and initial of my last name.

In some ways I think it's better being mostly out online as I don't feel a malicious person could use it against me. If someone came to me and said they knew about me and was going to tell everyone, I'd just tell them to go ahead as it's obvious I'm queer if you go online. That's a lot better than being scared to death someone is going to recognize you under an alias if they found you on some queer web site.

To be clear, I can understand those that are scared to death of being found out. I've been there myself. I just moved beyond it, with discretion.

[pole_smoker]

Both myself and my husband are out as bisexual, and have been for decades.

Life is meant for living, not hiding in a closet ashamed of your sexuality, or worrying what other people think about your sexuality.

[fredtyg]

Life is meant for living, not hiding in a closet ashamed of your sexuality, or worrying what other people think about your sexuality.

That doesn't mean you have to be up in everybody's face about it. There's no need to announce to the world your sexual preferences that probably not all that many people should even care about.

[pole_smoker]

Hi Iam
I agree with much that you write and in particular about being out reduces a guy's chance with women..lol

I tend to look at it as to be out does shut down options because most people in society are believers in the gay or straight binary rather than being bisexual or monosexual (gays and straights).

The entire premise of being out is a gay concept imo. There are a lot (marjority?) of bisexuals who prefer to see sexuality as a personal situation. It is no one elses business what a person's sexuality is unless they invite you to have sex or enter an emotional/sexual relationship.

I look at the entire Kinsey scale as a monosexual device. It asks people to place themselves on a monosexual contium rather than a simplier are you a bisexual who is attracted to both genders or a monosexual who is attracted to only one gender.

It is an entire mind shift to stop asking bisexuals to fit in to monosexual criteria and closets. Accept that yes you are attracted in some form to both genders and that makes you bisexual. Breaking it down to degrees of monosexuality is not relevant and due to fluid bisexual nature it can be a forms of denial of your bisexuality. The concept of shame is entangled in this attempt to see sexuality as degrees of attraction and argue that bisexuals are in a gay closet that they need to come out of.

There are arguments that come from a gay perspective that being out shows the world that there are normal people who are bisexual etc. There may be truth to that for gays but a less valid goal for bisexuals who would like to see the world less focused on who you have sex with or relationships with. Bisexuals should not have to pick a monosexual option that include in or out of a closet.

There is a chicken and egg issue with such thoughts though. How do you get a society to adapt a non in or out of the gay closet and simply accept that sexuality is a personal matter between people and no one elses business if no one bothers to 'spread" the word that closets are not for bisexuals?


It isn't being closeted. It is something different philosophy entirely for bisexuality.

There you go again with your whole pity party professional victim bullshit about bisexuality, that's written from deep inside your locked closet. LMAO!

People who are gay or heterosexual know about bisexuality, understand bisexuality, and have known about it for decades, and they're not "the enemy" or against people who are bisexual the way you love to claim they are.

The Kinsey scale was invented by a bisexual man, or don't you know who Alfred Kinsey was? LOL It also apty describes bisexuality or the many ways people can be bisexual, or have their bisexuality and attractions change over time.

[pole_smoker]

That doesn't mean you have to be up in everybody's face about it. There's no need to announce to the world your sexual preferences that probably not all that many people should even care about.

Coming out is not telling the world your sexuality, it's not telling people your personal sex life or the exact specifics of what you do sexually with others, and it's not being up in everyone's face about your sexuality.

But I'm not surprised that a deeply closeted and cowardly gay man as yourself who is in a marriage of convenience with a "wife" who he cheats on has this mentality.

[Browne]

I agree hardCell that the terms in or out of the closet have been ladened with shaming and pride. The ambiguity of not fitting into a monosexual dichotomy just does work for some/most bisexuals.

Some people believe gravity as the ruling force in the universe. I completely disagree with that assessment because although "gravity", as it is currently understood in the mainstream, is a powerful force that keeps us grounded and keeps planets in orbit around stars and such, it lacks the ability to heavily influence a human beings outlook on "reality". Only social forces can do that. And when we look around we see that we (humans) are the most complex and sophisticated "product" that has grown out of the process we call "universe". So a force that can have that kind of impact on the most sophisticated product that has grown out of the universe, is a force to be reckon with, simply because it wields so much power in how we perceive ourselves.

People treat each other, for the most part, as something far too simplified with words and labels that sell out on our uniqueness and on our life experiences, which are what REALLY defines us. And you can't simply put a label on that and call it true. But most of the social forces out there are generated by media, which is an extension of our culture, which I see as being in some sort of state of illness. Media is all about selling black/white, day/night, conservative/liberal, terrorist/freedom fighter. And after so many years of exposure to these types of thought processes, peoples minds tend to be "programmed" to think and percieve in this way. It's a very subtle transference that occurs, but it's extremely effective. But it just goes to show that culture is not your friend because it wants to cheapen and minimalize you. And people who play into polarizing concepts that are rolled out by the media are not truly able to appreciate who and what they are, simply because their minds become so divided up.


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[tenni]

That doesn't mean you have to be up in everybody's face about it. There's no need to announce to the world your sexual preferences that probably not all that many people should even care about.

Good point Fred. I've noticed that some bi and gay men who profess that they are not in a closet seem to attempt to shame bisexuals who do not act like them.
ie. by going around professing that they are out and all bisexuals and gay people who are not are bad or ashamed.

Just this week I was corresponding with a gay man who "looked gay"..ie...an older man with glossy skin (excessive skin care creams?) His eyes looked like he had an eyelift and not a hair out of place. He looked like a stereotypically older gay. The minute that I told him that I was bisexual, he disappeared. Not all but several gay and bi guys who run around "out" seem to condemn those who do not adhere to their lifestyle choices.

There is nothing wrong with feeling the need to be out. Some bisexuals feel better and some do not. It is strange that some act so arrogantly superior if a bisexual doesn't conform to their lifestyle?

[pole_smoker]

Good point Fred. I've noticed that some bi and gay men who profess that they are not in a closet seem to attempt to shame bisexuals who do not act like them.
ie. by going around professing that they are out and all bisexuals and gay people who are not are bad or ashamed.

Just this week I was corresponding with a gay man who "looked gay"..ie...an older man with glossy skin (excessive skin care creams?) His eyes looked like he had an eyelift and not a hair out of place. He looked like a stereotypically older gay. The minute that I told him that I was bisexual, he disappeared. Not all but several gay and bi guys who run around "out" seem to condemn those who do not adhere to their lifestyle choices.

There is nothing wrong with feeling the need to be out. Some bisexuals feel better and some do not. It is strange that some act so arrogantly superior if a bisexual doesn't conform to their lifestyle?

Tenni that guy didn't want to correspond with you since he knows you're just a player who uses all the bi and gay men he meets or tries to pick up as his own personal cum dumpster, fuck buddy, or booty call and you don't care if you spread any STDs you have to others.

FYI you look stereotypically "gay". LMAO

[Melody Dean]

Tenni that guy didn't want to correspond with you since he knows you're just a player who uses all the bi and gay men he meets or tries to pick up as his own personal cum dumpster, fuck buddy, or booty call and you don't care if you spread any STDs you have to others.

FYI you look stereotypically "gay". LMAO

THIS IS BEYOND NOT COOL. THIS IS CROSSING A LINE AND NOT RESPECTING SOMEONE'S PRIVACY OR WISHES.

We need a moderator.

[charles-smythe]

I'm curious as to how many bi men on the site are out and how many are closeted. I know that there are lots of identities between totally out and totally closeted. (i'm out to my wife, and a few old friends. i was more out as a younger man, when i was closer to the homo end of the spectrum).

my vague impression is that most bi men remain totally closeted for life. probably a smaller number are out to their partners. relatively few are totally out.

my other vague impression is the closer a bi man is to the homo end of the spectrum, the more likely to be out he is. there's not much reason for a Kinsey 1 bi man to be out. while a Kinsey 4 or 5 man might have much more reason to participate openly in the queer community. he might not be bothered by losing opportunities to date straight women, and appreciate that gay men (and, perhaps, bi women) are more likely to date him.

what do people have to say?

…for business reasons I’ve stayed in the closet…

[iamgarbanzo]

Couldn't agree more, Melody.

[cuttin2dachase]

I will always keep my straight persona separate from my bi persona. I am closeted by choice, not out of fear of shame or ridicule or violence. I have never felt shame or guilt that I enjoy sex with both genders. To me having a secret double life is quite exciting and fun and no one's business except the people I choose to chat with online and/or meet as sex partners/lovers. We live in a world where it's become the mantra for far too many people to proclaim to the world and to their own loved ones "I don't care or give a shit about what ANYONE else thinks or says about me !" It indicates to me an uncaring, self-centered and pitiful human being, the kind I would not want or have as a friend. I was was raised TO care about others and what they think or say. I DO care what my family and straight friends would think or say if I came out as bisexual. I would not feel ashamed or guilty if they discovered I am bisexual, however they would be hurt and feel shamed or even personally betrayed that I am not the outwardly straight person they know me and believe me to be. Being ostracized by them and being thought less of by them would affect me negatively if hurt them in that way and caused disharmony and bad feelings. I DO love my family and str8 friends and I'm an open book to them all regarding my non-secret public life and that's the way it has to stay for me. It sounds cliche-ish, but rings true to me to believe and say "what they don't know can't hurt them". In my deliciously exciting secret private sexual life, bisexual or gay men, a select few open minded women and bi or bi friendly swinging mf couples are the only people in whom I confide my secret and they are the only people I desire sex with.

[jem_is_bi]

THIS IS BEYOND NOT COOL. THIS IS CROSSING A LINE AND NOT RESPECTING SOMEONE'S PRIVACY OR WISHES.

We need a moderator.

I don’t think a moderator is happening anytime soon or at all.
But, I did not think chat would be back.
So, maybe we will again see limits on those whose only social interaction on this site is lewd, crude and especially MEAN.

But, I do not get too excited about those behaviors.I have other stuff higher on my priority list

[Oztrich]

My wife and ex-wife know. I keep the sex separate though. My ex-wife used it against me with my kids, and I never said a word about her love of MMF sex, or sleeping with lots of different men. You have to be careful at times for sure!

[Velorex]

Out to my wife, and obviously those I play with. I'm a private person outside the bedroom, so my sexuality would and has never come up. I'm not ashamed, but what I do behind closed doors is mine and the people involved business. If for some reason the matter ever came up, I wouldn't be ashamed of who and what I'm am though.

[donttellnehismy]

I don't advertise HOWEVER if directly asked I won't lie