Was 9/11 an inside job?

[pole_smoker]

It's 9/11 may all the people who died today in the WTC attacks, and who have died in the wars we're in rest in peace.

On another site I post on in their political/current events forum the question was posed if you believe 9/11 was inside or not? If so why do you believe it was? If no, why do you believe it was not?

[2bi2Bboring]

No! It wasn't!

[pole_smoker]

I voted yes only because the "official report" was dodgy in some ways, and not that I believe "OMGWTF the g0vt and Bush II planned it all and did it!" but because under the Clinton administration the DIA did learn about the plan to hijack planes and the attack plan, and told the information found to the Clinton administration in a report-yet nothing was done.


However I have seen the other side and the argument that drones were used, or planes on auto-pilot with no passengers, and things being hit by missiles make sense as does the controlled demolition theory on building #7 of the WTC.

There is not one shred of evidence that The Pentagon was ever hit by a plane, they have surveillance footage which they released enough to see the explosion, but not enough to see the plane, what is the fucking point in that? They are clearly hiding the fact it was something else besides a plane.


There is not one shred of evidence that The Pentagon was ever hit by a plane, they have surveillance footage which they released enough to see the explosion, but not enough to see the plane, what is the fucking point in that? They are clearly hiding the fact it was something else besides a plane.

The way the report claims that jet fuel melted 3 entire buildings yet the passports of the hijackers were found completely intact and not burnt at all is sketchy too.

Looking at the buildings fall it is pretty much identical to controlled demolition, I don't think the towers would of fell in that fashion if what we are told happened is all that happened. Obviously a couple planes hit those buildings that day, but that is not what brought them down, neither are the fires caused by said planes.

I also find it impossible to believe that, just by chance, NORAD happened to be playing war games that day and could not distinguish the threat. Literally on any other day the planes would of been shot out of the sky but apparently Bin Laden and his Saudi cronies hit the fucking lottery there, that is a hard sell to me.

[havefun529]

Is this where I get my tin foil hat?

[BiBedBud]

Alright, I’ll bite….

The clearest evidence there is *in the open* for anyone to see, can be seen in any photograph of the Pentagon on 9/11.

There is no way a 757 made that damage at the Pentagon, NO WAY that un-credibly small hole was a 757. That’s a fact.

I have also seen photographs taken by firefighters who responded to the Pentagon on that day – among the first guys to show up – and the debris shown in these photos, a small aviation landing-gear wheel, the kind like you’d find on a drone like a ‘Global Hawk’, but certainly nothing as big (x3) as a 757 landing gear.

I’ve seen plenty of photos of the molten steel at the WTC site, as if cut by Thermite, and enough other people have too; not to mention the free-fall speed of collapse, which is otherwise a physical impossibility without explosive charges like they use in controlled demolition. I’m not even going to get into the controversy of ‘Building 7’ which suffered no damage, yet collapsed all the same.

Seriously, go look at pictures of the Pentagon and WTC on that day and afterward, there was just too many of them taken, for anyone to be able to explain everything away.

So………………… If that wasn’t a plane at the Pentagon, yet a plane-load of regular, ordinary travellers were disappeared on that day…………?

Continue to ask questions along these lines, and it becomes CLEAR that the official story is BS – pure bunk – and that there was very definitely US Government involvement in 9/11, not just ‘LIHOP’ (an acronym for ‘Let it Happen on Purpose’, Google it to read more), not just LIHOP but actual participation in some way (like disappearing that plane-full of people who ‘officially’ were crashed into the Pentagon). I don’t think al Qaeda managed that on their own, even if they did probably intend to crash a jet into the Pentagon that day. Whatever happened to that plane is something other than crash into the Pentagon – that much I consider a certainty.

Doubting the truth? Go look at pictures of the Pentagon. Go to Google, click on ‘Images’ and type in ‘Pentagon 9/11’ and just for kicks, throw in ‘757’.

As for the reasons/ motivations, a lot has been written about that elsewhere, and I won’t rehash, except to say that a number of motives came together that day; whether explicitly or tacitly, we’ll never know.


One thing that hasn’t been talked about very much anywhere, is the motive that resided within NYC Real Estate interests (interwoven with mainstream media interests); who had an intractable problem: A glut of NYC office space, with far too much of it on the ‘lower end’, embodied most of all by the WTC ‘Twin Towers’. That was an enormous amount of space, but it could not be rented/leased out for top dollar, as these buildings were too old (and had high vacancy). However, the Twin Towers were too big to demolish economically the normal way (which would have cost billions, just to tear them down properly to redevelop the site, in a prime location). As such, for top-end New York City Real Estate interests, the WTC was a serious thorn in the side. Of course, that property could be entirely re-developed on-the-cheap with USG-backed financing and insurance payouts to boot, quite profitably indeed – especially if OSHA and EPA were not factors in (an unsafe) demolition. All that was needed was 9/11.

Consider also: The hundreds of billions spent on weapons and warfare thereafter. This was also a motivating factor for the plot, plus the easily available excuse to invade Iraq (ostensibly to gain control over oil, although that didn’t work-out so well). Now, only recently coming to light, is ‘the other shoe silently dropping’; the shredding of the US Constitution and the virtual imposition of high-order ‘thought police’ and if you’re coloured, even martial law a la Ferguson, Missouri.

Looking at the petro-implications alone, the case is pretty open and shut for any keen observer of international affairs – oil interests were also majorly involved. (I can already hear some of you scoffing all the way across the internet, because the cheap oil never flowed; but you must consider that US oil interests *require* a high price, because that’s the only way their holdings become profitable. If the world was at peace, and oil could move without so much fuss (or upwards price pressure, mostly from US speculators in the futures markets); then it wouldn’t be profitable to drill in Texas, the Gulf of Mexico, or Alaska; besides the blocks of licensed lots around the world held by the likes of EXXON, TEXACO, CHEVRON and the other oil majors.

High oil prices make more money for oil companies – it was never about bringing cheap gas to the pumps.

And now, America isn’t what it once was. Americans aren’t a free people any more. They live under a two-party oligarchy that presides over a (thinly veiled police-state), plutonomy – a far cry from a true democracy (which they arguably haven’t had since JFK). Worse yet, Americans aren’t as brave as they once were; in fact they cower so much in fear of terrorism (and in fear of Latinos and Blacks, etc.), that they’ve let their Government get away with all manner of things that would have been considered high treason back in the year 2000. For examples illustrating this point, please refer to Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning and Valerie Plame and her husband, among the other true patriots who have been persecuted by their own Government, while fearful stooges denounce them for ‘siding with the enemy’. (Same bunch of useful idiots who dismiss plain truth as crazy conspiracy theory; see ‘havefun529’ above.

So, to be precise, given the evidence and my own logical apprehension of the actual events and verifiable truths: 9/11 was partially an inside job, with significant ‘outsourcing’ to UBL and AQ. Also backing UBL and AQ, though from the other side of the conspiracy, were elements of the Pakistani military establishment, and their attendant terror apparatus who were important backers, facilitators and tacticians for the 9/11 attacks. There is also much clear evidence that elements of the Israeli government at least knew it was coming, precisely when and where – going so far as to set-up cameras on NYC rooftops so they could film the event. Reportedly, several Israelis were arrested after shocked New Yorkers saw them ‘high-fiving’ each other, while filming from rooftops, as the Twin Towers were struck and collapsed. Afterward, the George Bush Whitehouse got involved directly, and the Israelis were released from custody five weeks later, and sent back to Israel.

Just today, I was reading that there is actually an official 28-page report on which governments knew what, when; but which has been suppressed, quite officially. I’ve always suspected that King Abdullah of Jordan knew beforehand and tried to warn anyone he could reach; but to no avail.

The core tactics of the actual attacks, I assess as the product of Pakistani military trainers who did a cold-run (actually, a decidedly ‘wet’ run) with the preceding hijack of Indian Airlines flight 814 (in late 1999). There’s a Wikipedia page on that event which is also good reading.

Go just a little bit deeper into the known truths and verified facts, and you’ll find that after the Indian Airlines flight 814 hijack, India had a ‘Red Corner’ Alert with INTERPOL demanding the immediate arrest of the terrorists released by the hijacking of flight 814. Yet, the UK allowed at least one of them, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, to transit in and out of the UK several times, until he was re-arrested in Pakistan in 2002 for cutting off the head of yet another American journalist, Daniel Pearl (RIP).



PS: Tin hats are stupid, but blissful ignorance is far, far worse.

[pole_smoker]

Alright, I’ll bite….

The clearest evidence there is *in the open* for anyone to see, can be seen in any photograph of the Pentagon on 9/11.

There is no way a 757 made that damage at the Pentagon, NO WAY that un-credibly small hole was a 757. That’s a fact.

I have also seen photographs taken by firefighters who responded to the Pentagon on that day – among the first guys to show up – and the debris shown in these photos, a small aviation landing-gear wheel, the kind like you’d find on a drone like a ‘Global Hawk’, but certainly nothing as big (x3) as a 757 landing gear.

I’ve seen plenty of photos of the molten steel at the WTC site, as if cut by Thermite, and enough other people have too; not to mention the free-fall speed of collapse, which is otherwise a physical impossibility without explosive charges like they use in controlled demolition. I’m not even going to get into the controversy of ‘Building 7’ which suffered no damage, yet collapsed all the same.

Seriously, go look at pictures of the Pentagon and WTC on that day and afterward, there was just too many of them taken, for anyone to be able to explain everything away.

So………………… If that wasn’t a plane at the Pentagon, yet a plane-load of regular, ordinary travellers were disappeared on that day…………?

Continue to ask questions along these lines, and it becomes CLEAR that the official story is BS – pure bunk – and that there was very definitely US Government involvement in 9/11, not just ‘LIHOP’ (an acronym for ‘Let it Happen on Purpose’, Google it to read more), not just LIHOP but actual participation in some way (like disappearing that plane-full of people who ‘officially’ were crashed into the Pentagon). I don’t think al Qaeda managed that on their own, even if they did probably intend to crash a jet into the Pentagon that day. Whatever happened to that plane is something other than crash into the Pentagon – that much I consider a certainty.

Doubting the truth? Go look at pictures of the Pentagon. Go to Google, click on ‘Images’ and type in ‘Pentagon 9/11’ and just for kicks, throw in ‘757’.

As for the reasons/ motivations, a lot has been written about that elsewhere, and I won’t rehash, except to say that a number of motives came together that day; whether explicitly or tacitly, we’ll never know.


One thing that hasn’t been talked about very much anywhere, is the motive that resided within NYC Real Estate interests (interwoven with mainstream media interests); who had an intractable problem: A glut of NYC office space, with far too much of it on the ‘lower end’, embodied most of all by the WTC ‘Twin Towers’. That was an enormous amount of space, but it could not be rented/leased out for top dollar, as these buildings were too old (and had high vacancy). However, the Twin Towers were too big to demolish economically the normal way (which would have cost billions, just to tear them down properly to redevelop the site, in a prime location). As such, for top-end New York City Real Estate interests, the WTC was a serious thorn in the side. Of course, that property could be entirely re-developed on-the-cheap with USG-backed financing and insurance payouts to boot, quite profitably indeed – especially if OSHA and EPA were not factors in (an unsafe) demolition. All that was needed was 9/11.

Consider also: The hundreds of billions spent on weapons and warfare thereafter. This was also a motivating factor for the plot, plus the easily available excuse to invade Iraq (ostensibly to gain control over oil, although that didn’t work-out so well). Now, only recently coming to light, is ‘the other shoe silently dropping’; the shredding of the US Constitution and the virtual imposition of high-order ‘thought police’ and if you’re coloured, even martial law a la Ferguson, Missouri.

Looking at the petro-implications alone, the case is pretty open and shut for any keen observer of international affairs – oil interests were also majorly involved. (I can already hear some of you scoffing all the way across the internet, because the cheap oil never flowed; but you must consider that US oil interests *require* a high price, because that’s the only way their holdings become profitable. If the world was at peace, and oil could move without so much fuss (or upwards price pressure, mostly from US speculators in the futures markets); then it wouldn’t be profitable to drill in Texas, the Gulf of Mexico, or Alaska; besides the blocks of licensed lots around the world held by the likes of EXXON, TEXACO, CHEVRON and the other oil majors.

High oil prices make more money for oil companies – it was never about bringing cheap gas to the pumps.

And now, America isn’t what it once was. Americans aren’t a free people any more. They live under a two-party oligarchy that presides over a (thinly veiled police-state), plutonomy – a far cry from a true democracy (which they arguably haven’t had since JFK). Worse yet, Americans aren’t as brave as they once were; in fact they cower so much in fear of terrorism (and in fear of Latinos and Blacks, etc.), that they’ve let their Government get away with all manner of things that would have been considered high treason back in the year 2000. For examples illustrating this point, please refer to Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning and Valerie Plame and her husband, among the other true patriots who have been persecuted by their own Government, while fearful stooges denounce them for ‘siding with the enemy’. (Same bunch of useful idiots who dismiss plain truth as crazy conspiracy theory; see ‘havefun529’ above.

So, to be precise, given the evidence and my own logical apprehension of the actual events and verifiable truths: 9/11 was partially an inside job, with significant ‘outsourcing’ to UBL and AQ. Also backing UBL and AQ, though from the other side of the conspiracy, were elements of the Pakistani military establishment, and their attendant terror apparatus who were important backers, facilitators and tacticians for the 9/11 attacks. There is also much clear evidence that elements of the Israeli government at least knew it was coming, precisely when and where – going so far as to set-up cameras on NYC rooftops so they could film the event. Reportedly, several Israelis were arrested after shocked New Yorkers saw them ‘high-fiving’ each other, while filming from rooftops, as the Twin Towers were struck and collapsed. Afterward, the George Bush Whitehouse got involved directly, and the Israelis were released from custody five weeks later, and sent back to Israel.

Just today, I was reading that there is actually an official 28-page report on which governments knew what, when; but which has been suppressed, quite officially. I’ve always suspected that King Abdullah of Jordan knew beforehand and tried to warn anyone he could reach; but to no avail.

The core tactics of the actual attacks, I assess as the product of Pakistani military trainers who did a cold-run (actually, a decidedly ‘wet’ run) with the preceding hijack of Indian Airlines flight 814 (in late 1999). There’s a Wikipedia page on that event which is also good reading.

Go just a little bit deeper into the known truths and verified facts, and you’ll find that after the Indian Airlines flight 814 hijack, India had a ‘Red Corner’ Alert with INTERPOL demanding the immediate arrest of the terrorists released by the hijacking of flight 814. Yet, the UK allowed at least one of them, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, to transit in and out of the UK several times, until he was re-arrested in Pakistan in 2002 for cutting off the head of yet another American journalist, Daniel Pearl (RIP).



PS: Tin hats are stupid, but blissful ignorance is far, far worse.

Thank you for posting. What are your theories about what happened at the WTC or how building 7 was standing, then was reported on the news to have fallen, and then did fall looking like a controlled demolition?

[Gearbox]

Yes!
There are just too many improbabilities, coincidences and outright manipulations (technical & psychological) involved for it to have been as portrayed.

One thing stood out for me that made me doubt what was 'reported', was on the day of the incident:
A film crew were reporting live footage of the scene and interviewing onlookers with what was left of the towers behind the crowd. One of the crowd introduced himself as an engineering expert. He said that he watched the towers collapse, and that it was impossible for them to collapse in that way IF due to planes striking them.
I've never seen that footage again, yet you'd think it would be used time after time to portray the effects on the onlookers on that day.

Looking into it, it's complete bolox IMO.

[CT66fan]

Pole_Smoker:
No matter what the issue there will always be conspiracy theorists who want to blame it on the government or the powerful.
<br>

However I have seen the other side and the argument that drones were used, or planes on auto-pilot with no passengers, and things being hit by missiles make sense as does the controlled demolition theory on building #7 of the WTC.

You can come up with all of the plausable theories you want, but the video evidence is clear in that the planes DID hit the towers.
<br>

There is not one shred of evidence that The Pentagon was ever hit by a plane, they have surveillance footage which they released enough to see the explosion, but not enough to see the plane, what is the fucking point in that? They are clearly hiding the fact it was something else besides a plane.

I don't buy that for a second. Most survellience recorders capture frames at a rate of 3-5 frames per second (fps) and play back at 120 fps. The plane that hit the Pentagon was a 757-223, 155 feet long, with a cruising speed of 533 mph (or 782 ft per second). Travel at that speed, it would take only 2/10s of a second to travel its length. AT a record rate of 4 fps, that's 0.25 seconds between frames. Check out this link if you want to see how the plane escaped obvious observation on the security camera's clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8
<br>

The way the report claims that jet fuel melted 3 entire buildings yet the passports of the hijackers were found completely intact and not burnt at all is sketchy too.

With explosive, high energy events like this, the strangest things happen. Items you would expect to be totally destroyed are not. What of the findings of pieces of straw penetrating a telepone pole after a tornado? I never heard reports that "3 entire buildings were melted".
<br>

Looking at the buildings fall it is pretty much identical to controlled demolition, I don't think the towers would of fell in that fashion if what we are told happened is all that happened. Obviously a couple planes hit those buildings that day, but that is not what brought them down, neither are the fires caused by said planes.

After impact, and quite some time after the fire, the towers collapsed. The only force acting on the structures was gravity. As any high schooler who passed physics knows, gravity pulls straight down. For those of us familiar with the WTC structural system, this is not at all far-fetched. Go revisit some of the videos - the floors are falling straight down, but the exterior of the buildings fell outward, away from the center.
Many people are gone as a result of this tragedy, so the remote-controlled airplane theories fall short. You believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. Many will criticize "belief" vs "facts", but we all know that facts can sometimes be colored to support a particular belief. From my perspective, I do not expect that we will ever know the whole story. But, given the logistics required to pull this off as the conspiracy theorists suggest, I just don't see our government capable of it without SOMEONE eventually leaking the fact. So far, I haven't heard one come forward.
You all can respond as you see fit. Foul language and insults will not bait me into a debate on this topic. You live with your opinion and I'll be fine with mine.

[kewlguy]

You don't need to be an expert to see the blatant similarities between controlled demolition of any other building vs. the Towers. The planes were flown into the towers on purpose to make it look like an attack. Yes...it was an inside job and the controlled demolition of building 7 is the smoking gun....PERIOD!!!

[2bi2Bboring]

Thanks for bringing this conspiracy theory shit to the one place I was counting on being free from it. The dispensing of tinfoil hats will begin in the line to the left and the Thorazine pills are in the line to the right, please get you tinfoil hat prior to your Thorazine pills. Please hand in all your guns prior to getting in either line. Those believing Sandy Hook was a government conspiracy perpetrated by rogue elements of special forces, take two Thorazine pills and sign up for electroshock treatments in the rear of the room. Thank you and have a nice day

[Gearbox]

Omfg 2bi. Have you been brainwashed to click on and post in threads that you have a distinct dislike for?
What kind of crazy shit psyscho mind fuckery is going on in Indiana?
Get out of there, put your tin foil hat on.....run bitch...RUN!

[void()]

Thanks for bringing this conspiracy theory shit to the one place I was counting on being free from it. The dispensing of tinfoil hats will begin in the line to the left and the Thorazine pills are in the line to the right, please get you tinfoil hat prior to your Thorazine pills. Please hand in all your guns prior to getting in either line. Those believing Sandy Hook was a government conspiracy perpetrated by rogue elements of special forces, take two Thorazine pills and sign up for electroshock treatments in the rear of the room. Thank you and have a nice day

At present I do not have direct link or citations to it, proof exists though, F.D.R ignored the Japanese emissary prior to WWII. The Japanese sought to gain relief from the oil embargo imposed on them by the U.S., continued embargo meant Japan had no recourse aside from attacking the U.S.. This was set in motion so as to give the U.S. an excuse to enter WWII.

Vietnam was engaged over The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, which was later proven to have been a staged event to grant an excuse to further engage in warfare. And then there is documented proof which Anthony C. Sutton wrote about it. This proof conveys that many various Wall Street interests supplied Communist and Russian backed North Vietnamese with supplies, such as Ford trucks. Atop of this, Vietnam was where our military was put on a leash effectively, ordered to literally not follow an enemy after the enemy crossed whatever arbitrary line it was that week/day/hour. We also used counter-insurgency tactics in Vietnam which came directly from Mao via a French soldier who was hired to teach at American war colleges. Look up Operation Phoenix in regards to Vietnam, there is the anti-insurgency matter.

Also during this time an effort was made to overthrow Castro in Cuba. Look up Operation Northwoods. This is especially interesting because at the time it was suggested planes could be flown via radio control. The technology to do that has only improved.

You can also look up The Project For A New American Century, or PNAC. They openly suggest America needs another Pearl Harbor in order to persuade us to go to war. This was documented a year to the month prior to Sept. 11 2001, in September of 2000.

Sorry, but when there are incontrovertible statements of fact, documented proofs of at least three false flag incidents in our history, it is difficult to not question. You need not be a kook.

[void()]

The lowest temperature at which a plain carbon steel can begin to melt, its solidus, is 1,130 °C (2,070 °F). Steel never turns into a liquid below this temperature. Pure Iron ('Steel' with 0% Carbon) starts to melt at 1,492 °C (2,718 °F), and is completely liquid upon reaching 1,539 °C (2,802 °F). Steel with 2.1% Carbon by weight begins melting at 1,130 °C (2,070 °F), and is completely molten upon reaching 1,315 °C (2,399 °F). 'Steel' with more than 2.1% Carbon is no longer Steel, but is known as Cast iron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_steel

Worked with a fellow once who had for a time worked at an airport with a refill crew. They refilled planes with jet fuel. He stated that jet fuel burns quickly, at around 1,500 F in temperature. He admitted the crew used to "flash fry" hot dogs, squirt a short burst of fuel over an open flame, hold out a hot dog on a wire. He said the fuel burnt off so quick there was really no time for sustainable heat.

I recalled two years of welding in high school, thinking steel melted somewhere around 1,900 F. Looked it up as our instructor often chided us to do. I was not far off the mark with recalling the melting point. And I do recall the heat needs sustained. Plasma cutters can cut steel in quick heating bursts, but they are another horse of color altogether. Paper and office stuff, not likely to reach over 1,700 F, still well under what is required.

Why "melt steel"? Well, obviously steel is shown as melted, or cut through in many of the images shown in MSM. When you have common sense to realize this takes a lot of heat, more than what is cited was available, it too leaves one to wonder.

There are also now over 2,000 or so engineers who do not accept the official version of the narrative, in part due to this concern regarding the steel.

[2bi2Bboring]

Ok, I gotta say this beforehand in the interest of sanity( my own ), let's not let this conversation be one of THOSE conversations that make you shake your head and internally scream. This is a site about being bisexual, I see enough of the real world on my TV at night between 6-7pm. I have to deal with religions that want to subjugate me, politicians who want to enslave me, and nut bag ammo heads who want to make me think I live in fucking Baghdad or Mogadishu and I need their wanna-be Rambo CAR-15 toting paranoid asses to protect me in while I'm buying jeans in the Gap. I wanna come here and get away from the fear and paranoia that infects the rest of the world, dammit! Is it too much to fucking ask?

I have been on the pointy end of the spear of US foreign policy, I spent a long time learning how manipulated the press and the public are, from the inside, you all were on the outside looking in. I'm no Indiana corn-fed rube, I've been in around the world and IN the news, not watching it at home on fucking TV. Is the press manipulated? Is the public manipulated? Yes and yes! Does it make me feel better to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are being manipulated? Fuuuuuuuck no! But the only thing we on the outside can do is live our lives, I don't swallow 99% of it, because I know better than to do it. But does it make me sleep better to not think about it? You're damn well straight,it does! But I don't swallow any of this horseshit either. My head is not in the sand
There's a hundred more relevant, more important things minds like yours could be contemplating to help save the planet or make a better world . Instead, we are all here debating how paranoid we can be, what fucking good is that. You are all intelligent, articulate people, but the truth is we will never know the truth. So we are only left with the circumstances in the wake. Go ahead, don't trust the government, you shouldn't anyway. But whipping yourself up into a froth over whether JFK was assassinated by Fidel Castro, the mob, or LBJ is just mental masturbation. Oswald got fingered for it and that's the way history will record it, the Warren Commission and the House Subcommittee on Assassinations are footnotes to the partyline of history.
Same deal with this hyperbole and verbosity, the truth died a long time ago, long before Sept 11th, 2001. We will truthfully never know the WHO, and WHY, we are only left with WHAT happened and the world it wrought afterward.

The truth is, there are bad people in the world, bad people who mean to do us harm. People who have sworn their very lives to our destruction. Bad rich people and bad poor people, some are politically connected oligarchs who want to see their profits rise and could give a rat's ass if the world burns to the ground to get it. Others, have nothing left to loose, or they have everything to die for because paradise awaits. It's happened all over the world, people lose something precious, a home, a member of their family, maybe their whole family, and they swear on their lives to destroy those who did it. All over the planet people are finding reasons to go to the Middle East and training to raze America to the ground. The U.S. And Britain have been fucking around in Middle East politics since the discovery of oil in the 1920's. In that nearly 100 years we have made a fuck-ton of enemies, because we are manipulating their political environment. Lots of the peasantry in many of our little serfdoms we've created and kept are currently pissed at us for fucking-over their lives, exploiting their resources, taking their land and killing their mothers,wives and children. Before oil was a commodity no one gave a single shit about that area of the world, now we are neck deep in shit over it.
So Gear, why is it so hard to believe Muslim terrorists flew planes into the towers and the Pentagon? The guy currently lopping the heads off journalists left and right on the internet is a British citizen, you don't think there a conspiracy theory too. Or is everything a conspiracy theory?
If is the biggest word in the universe! It's true, manipulating the public perception is the stock and trade of governments. But what good does this knowledge do you? Does it make you happier, or does it make you live in fear and loathing and paranoia?

[Hoosier]

Bi, Like you I came here to be with other Bi folk ,not to dicuss politicts, but if SHtF.......game over...for them

[void()]

I have to deal with religions that want to subjugate me, politicians who want to enslave me, and nut bag ammo heads who want to make me think I live in fucking Baghdad or Mogadishu and I need their wanna-be Rambo CAR-15 toting paranoid asses to protect me in while I'm buying jeans in the Gap. I wanna come here and get away from the fear and paranoia that infects the rest of the world, dammit! Is it too much to fucking ask?

I have been on the pointy end of the spear of US foreign policy, I spent a long time learning how manipulated the press and the public are, from the inside, you all were on the outside looking in. I'm no Indiana corn-fed rube, I've been in around the world and IN the news, not watching it at home on fucking TV. Is the press manipulated? Is the public manipulated? Yes and yes! Does it make me feel better to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are being manipulated? Fuuuuuuuck no! But the only thing we on the outside can do is live our lives, I don't swallow 99% of it, because I know better than to do it. But does it make me sleep better to not think about it? You're damn well straight,it does! But I don't swallow any of this horseshit either. My head is not in the sand
There's a hundred more relevant, more important things minds like yours could be contemplating to help save the planet or make a better world . Instead, we are all here debating how paranoid we can be, what fucking good is that. You are all intelligent, articulate people, but the truth is we will never know the truth. So we are only left with the circumstances in the wake. Go ahead, don't trust the government, you shouldn't anyway. But whipping yourself up into a froth over whether JFK was assassinated by Fidel Castro, the mob, or LBJ is just mental masturbation. Oswald got fingered for it and that's the way history will record it, the Warren Commission and the House Subcommittee on Assassinations are footnotes to the partyline of history.
Same deal with this hyperbole and verbosity, the truth died a long time ago, long before Sept 11th, 2001. We will truthfully never know the WHO, and WHY, we are only left with WHAT happened and the world it wrought afterward.

The truth is, there are bad people in the world, bad people who mean to do us harm. People who have sworn their very lives to our destruction. Bad rich people and bad poor people, some are politically connected oligarchs who want to see their profits rise and could give a rat's ass if the world burns to the ground to get it. Others, have nothing left to loose, or they have everything to die for because paradise awaits. It's happened all over the world, people lose something precious, a home, a member of their family, maybe their whole family, and they swear on their lives to destroy those who did it. All over the planet people are finding reasons to go to the Middle East and training to raze America to the ground. The U.S. And Britain have been fucking around in Middle East politics since the discovery of oil in the 1920's. In that nearly 100 years we have made a fuck-ton of enemies, because we are manipulating their political environment. Lots of the peasantry in many of our little serfdoms we've created and kept are currently pissed at us for fucking-over their lives, exploiting their resources, taking their land and killing their mothers,wives and children. Before oil was a commodity no one gave a single shit about that area of the world, now we are neck deep in shit over it.

ROFLMAO

Gee.

See now why I suggest ignoring the hell out of authority? Yes, I pointed out a few things here what I believe are good questions, good cases of documented truths. i did not vote though. People see this crap anyway.

It does not matter if I think X or Y. It will be what it will be. I can sequester off from the herd, improve the self, do what is desired, loved. This gives control to create a different world. I like to refresh reading of this from time to time.

* off to figure out which to use as fuel for rocket, veggie oil or tallow *

[Gearbox]

So Gear, why is it so hard to believe Muslim terrorists flew planes into the towers and the Pentagon? The guy currently lopping the heads off journalists left and right on the internet is a British citizen, you don't think there a conspiracy theory too. Or is everything a conspiracy theory?
If is the biggest word in the universe! It's true, manipulating the public perception is the stock and trade of governments. But what good does this knowledge do you? Does it make you happier, or does it make you live in fear and loathing and paranoia?

I don't find it hard to believe that Muslim terrorists WOULD fly planes into the towers and the Pentagon. I find it hard to believe that they DID.
I also find it hard to believe that you insist on clicking and posting in this thread, just to tell everybody how much you don't like this thread.
But there you go.....it's Human nature, and bizarre as it can be, I find it fascinating.YAY!

Nope! I don't live in fear, get paranoid or think everything is a conspiracy. IMO you can only deal with things if you know what you have to deal with. I can skip through the daisies singing and dancing for all the joy in the world, as good as any. AND at the same time know what wickedness this species of mine is capable of.
We are quite capable of discussing 9/11 without tying ourselves to the train tracks too. So don't you worry!

[tenni]

I don't think of a conspiracy theory readily in Canada.

Which countries have conspiracy theories about events in their country that go on and on regardless of evidence?

Does Britain have a long list of conspiracy theories(political or otherwise?)

There was a building collapsed in Thailand or some south asian country. Many workers died. Is there a conspiracy theory that it was the North American companies that caused the building to collapse?

Why does the USA seem to revel in creating conspiracy theories? (Lincoln, Kennedy etc.)

[BiBedBud]

About that article I mentioned above, here it is….



9/11's secret 28-page history

Families demand release of classified 2002 report detailing foreign-government support for September 11 hijackers.

Robert Kennedy Last updated: 10 Sep 2014 15:20

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fea...529308836.html


(QUOTE) A secret 9/11 history exists - one that the few who know it say names at least one foreign country that provided support to some of the 19 hijackers on their murderous mission 13-years ago on Thursday.

Twenty-eight pages from an official 2002 report detailing foreign-government assistance to the September 11 attackers remain classified. Determined 9/11 family members and sympathetic congressmen are pushing hard, however, for the long-awaited release of the missing history of one of the United States' greatest tragedies. (ENDQUOTE)

The article goes on to provide hyperlinks to the “Federation of American Scientists” website where the House-Senate Intelligence Committee’s Joint Inquiry Report can be downloaded (all 858 pages, except it seems the 28 pages that count the most).



pole_smoker,

You asked “What are your theories about what happened at the WTC or how building 7 was standing, then was reported on the news to have fallen, and then did fall looking like a controlled demolition?”

There is only one way for me to look at what I saw that day and in the days after 9/11, and it doesn’t rest on my or anyone else’s “theories”. Rather, it is “The Laws of Physics” and the hard limitations imposed by other hard sciences including Chemistry and Metallurgy that mean THE OFFICIAL STORY IS TOTAL BULLSHIT.

The Official 9/11 Story is ***IMPOSSIBLE***.

RE: The WTC 9/11 attacks; that amount of jet fuel burning that amount of office furniture and paper with that amount of air flow, is never going to cause that structure to fail. It is physically impossible. Even if those specific floors collapsed, it shouldn’t have brought the whole of both Twin Towers down. That’s just plain physics. And even if there was enough heat energy available to melt all that structural steel, it certainly wouldn’t have collapsed at free-fall speed. What I saw on 9/11 is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with “The Official Story”.

The most damning evidence on this account, are the NUMEROUS photos of diagonally-cut girders and beams in the WTC wreckage. There is no way AQ used hijacked airliners to make diagonal cuts to structural steel girders and beams throughout the entirety of Towers 1, 2 and 7 (7?). For those who don’t recognize what this means: Diagonally-cut girders and beams is a tell-tale sign of controlled demolition; not structural failure owing to thermal degradation of steel.

So, for the record: While it is arguably certain that AQ Terrorists hijacked probably four planes that day, and intentionally crashed two of them into WTC1 and WTC2: That wouldn’t/shouldn’t have been enough to collapse the buildings. Even if you make outlandish and entirely improbable calculations involving way more fuel and way more heat energy; those buildings should not have collapsed the way they did.

The only way for those buildings to collapse the way they did, was through intentionally-placed, specialty explosive charges that would have taken several months to install beforehand.

Understand that we’re talking about ‘Thermite’ based charges, which don’t go-off with a loud ‘bang’ like most explosives. Rather, they burn more like rocket fuel with extremely high temperatures – white-hot – and so melt the steel they’re in contact with. Once the steel reaches that high temperature, it turns into a liquid (some of which was filmed pouring out of those buildings prior to the collapse, and tons of it was still molten hot weeks later, pooled in the basements). This is why the diagonal cuts are made; to allow the girders to slip in the chosen direction.

Evidence of Thermite was also found in the dust residues that blanketed much of the city. Look at that dust with a microscope and then test it with even more sophisticated equipment, and you will find CLEAR PROOF of Thermite being used in massive quantities. Truly, it’s the only way those buildings could have been “pulled” the way they were (to use the owner’s own words – he actually said that, he used the word “pulled” which is demo slang for controlled demolition, in reference to WTC7).

More info on molten metal here: http://moltenmetalsmokinggun.blogspot.ca/ a website which also shows numerous images of diagonally-cut steel girders and even some videos of FDNY guys and their eyeball witness accounts of “rivers of molten steel”. Videos here also regarding molten steel https://www.metabunk.org/threads/mol...ng-metal.2029/

More about Nano-Thermite and all of the Scientifically-inspired “Truthers” calling for “Truth” is available at this excellent website. (Credentialed Scientists, including Nobel Laureates and many top authorities dismiss the official version of 9/11.) Plenty of good videos on this webpage, some quite technical. Near the bottom of this webpage there is actually a 1minute 23second video showing WTC7 coming down as the building’s owner is talking off-hand about the decision having been made to “pull” the building: and it certainly looks like controlled demolition http://investigate911.org/Nano-thermite.htm


Gearbox,

I’m no engineering expert; but I’d have to agree with the guy you saw on TV. Based on my understanding of physics alone; the way those buildings collapsed is impossible, if the whole story is only the official story. Ipso facto: There had to be more going on that day. IMHO controlled demolition is a certainty (see my comments above).

Perhaps even more outlandish, is the NORAD response on that day, which was supposedly befuddled because, by coincidence, there was supposedly an exercise going on that day, and the military couldn’t get themselves out of ‘exercise mode’ quick enough to intercept lumbering airliners. (Geesh!)

Even as the rest of the country was glued to the TV as the attacks unfolded; supposedly NORAD was issuing one “Stand Down” order after another in the mistaken (BS!) belief that it was just an exercise. A moment by moment examination of that day reveals NUMEROUS ‘Stand Down’ orders given to hamstring any military response on that day. Whatever jets the Air Force scrambled as the attacks unfolded, seem to have made a point of flying as slow as they could go (obviously, under orders). A great colour-coded timeline is here http://www.911timeline.net/ where the AF response is critiqued extensively.

As for all that weird crap going on at the time, check this out http://killtown.911review.org/oddities/911.html which is a collection of all the odd-oddities and high strangeness surrounding 9/11. void(), you’d like this page too, because it mentions other instances of false premises drawing the US into wars of aggression.



void(),

You are correct, the United States has a long history of using false premises to start wars of aggression.

They saw the Japanese coming, but LIHOP to draw the country into WWII. Similarly, the ‘Gulf of Tonkin Incident’ was also a false premise to start a war of aggression. Also, the Spanish American war was sparked on a false allegation, and we all know now that Saddam Hussein had no WMDs worthy of a US invasion.

PS: Definitely, go with the tallow. It is more energetic than veggie oil. If you’d like to experiment with veggie oil anyway, I suggest Crisco, which is already a solid, much like tallow.



2bi2Bboring,

I find your cynical, dystopian apathy utterly contemptible. You’re a poor excuse for an American. I doubt if all those who fought and died for your freedom, would have fought as hard for your freedom to not give a shit. Your apathy dishonors everything they fought and bled and died for. SHOULDN’T YOU KNOW BETTER?

Going by what you’ve written above, you seem to know at least a little about “the evil done” by the rich and powerful; yet you seem determined to turn a blind eye, content to stand aside and let that evil happen; so long as you’re free to waste your time on bisexual dot com, unhindered by bloody reality.

I’m not saying you’ve gotta work 24/7 to overthrow the powers that be; but the least you can do is not try to sweep things under the rug.

It may be true that there are a “hundred more relevant, more important things” we should spend our time on; rather than churning 9/11 over and over again. Believe me, I know it (and I act accordingly). However, I am also aware of the fact that if we just let this 9/11 thing pass, we’re setting ourselves up for far worse in future. Even if we do manage to devote 100% of our time, energy and talent on the “hundred more relevant, more important things” we could think-up – all of it could come to naught, if we relinquish our duty to honour the truth. That’s basic. Skip the basics and everything else is subject to collapse.

PS: If you think you “see enough of the real world on (your) TV at night between 6-7pm”, then you might as well have your head up your ass, anyways (by your own admission?). You seem to know it is BS, but you’re still consuming it, and buying-in? You seem to be worried about the “circumstances in the wake” and “the world it wrought afterward”, but without any willingness to look ahead of all that and be as responsible for your fellow Americans now, as your foregoing American heroes were for you. That’s why I think you’re a poor excuse for an American.

You seem to me to be a very confused, indeed self-conflicted person. You should be both ashamed and better motivated than you obviously aren’t to re-take your country back from those who see your countrymen and women as chattel, hardly as pawns even the very best of you. I doubt you even have the decency to vote; and if you ever did, I’ll bet it was for one of the big two parties – because people like you just want to side with the winner, and that’s how you mark your ballot, like you’re placing a bet on a favourite.

Americans need a government that won’t cause so much trouble around the world; else they are literally risking their own lives, certainly their freedoms and way of life. FOR THE RECORD (most Americans still don’t understand): The American Government has backed the “House of Saud” as the leaders of Saudi Arabia, which hosts the two holiest sites in Islam; which grants America effective price discounts on oil, and helps America enforce pricing of oil in US dollars (hence the term “Petrodollar”, which is like having unlimited credit – except it’s not entirely unlimited!). If citizens there in Arabia could vote, they’d certainly vote for someone other than King Faisal or Abdullah or whoever is on the throne at the moment; but then Americans might lose all that juice and power.

So, America backs the House of Saud; which makes Arabs there angry, causing terrorism. Simultaneously, America backs Israel, and effectively buys peace for Israel by paying off yet another dictator of Arabs, currently the Sisi Regime in Egypt; which makes many Arabs there angry, causing terrorism. All the while, Israel tries to get all of the land that was once Palestine, using a lot of American money and weapons and UNSC vetoes in the process; which makes many Arabs angry, causing terrorism. For similar and alternate reasons, the American Government backs many dictatorships around the world, many of them in Arab and Moslem countries; and this makes many Arabs and Moslems angry, all over the world, causing terrorism.

Accordingly, it’s more than a little disingenuous to put all the blame for this state of affairs on Arabs or Moslems or even on the bona fide terrorists out there. Make no mistake: I’m not one to grant any cover to Pakistani or Arab terrorists or the men behind them, but there can be no doubt that the “facilitator in chief” of all of it is within or otherwise in control of the US Government.

FOR THE RECORD: I’m not saying that Islamist Terrorists didn’t hijack planes that day, because they did – they even managed to crash two of them into the WTC1&2. But that CANNOT explain everything that happened; it can’t explain the building collapses and it can’t explain the small hole in the Pentagon (or what actually happened to that plane that supposedly crashed there). TO BE CLEAR: Islamic terrorists did skyjack planes that day and crashed into the WTC1&2, but what collapsed the building was a parallel conspiracy that used controlled demolition. That’s the only explanation that approaches sense. Islamist Terrorists certainly can’t explain the obscenely inept military (non)response on that day, either. I mean, not a single American got a single shot-off that day? Why was the airspace over Washington wide-open, all the while those attacks unfolded? It’s simply UNBELIEVABLE.

It’s just unbelievable that the Military HQ of the World’s only ‘Super Power’ was attacked with a slow-flying jetliner, as the WTC burned (and long after someone whispered in Bush’s ear “Mr. President, we’re under attack”, which caused him to just sit there for seven minutes, doing nothing). It’s just simply un-believable that things happened like the official story says.

Luckily, a largely empty wing of the Pentagon was “struck”, and aside from those (comparatively few) killed there, the greatest loss was THE ENTIRE PAPER TRAIL that was about to be the focal point of an investigation into missing tens of billions of dollars of military spending. That’s right, Congress had instructed files to be “sequestered” that could have proven “misdeeds” and these were all lost in the 9/11 Pentagon “attack”. Similarly, for some completely un-believable reason, the FBI or CIA moved one of their “counter terrorism centers” into the WTC1 or 2, just prior to the attacks; which meant that a lot of that info and intel was lost, when those buildings game down – and this after the site was already attacked once before in 1993 – it’s just UNBELIEVABLE.

A viable truth must explain these things, and that truth points to more “evildoers” at work for 9/11 than are officially recognized. As such, not only do I want JUSTICE, I am very concerned about those who’ve gotten away with it. They could do much worse in future, to any or all of us (and drag the whole world into a war, by virtue of “treaty obligations” like Article 5 of the NATO charter).

[elian]

I've watched a few documentaries, by no means does that make me an expert but my understanding is that Bin Laden's plan to "bring down the West" was to draw the US into a large conflict and bankrupt us..

How did he do?


..not to mention making the citizenry paranoid and divisive.. What good is freedom if all you do is hide in your own house?

[BiBedBud]

[2bi2Bboring]

Gearbox
Apologies, I meant no offense. I was a bit unraveled and should have just ignored the thread. I find myself wishing I had at this point. i actually tried to remove that part of the comment but my hour of edit time expired and I had to let it stand. Sincere apologies.

BiBedBud
I'm not sure where to start with you, I never read a word you said because most of it is conspiracy theory bullshit! Yup, your THAT guy, the one everyone should avoid this subject around. I dismissed you, so you attacked me, and you didn't question my logic or my information, you attacked me, impugned my character publicly and insulted me.
I find it ironic a Canadian is accusing me of being a bad American about the attack on MY country. Obviously, there's something wrong here. I have no idea what it means to be a good Canadian on any subject, I would say you are about the same on the subject of being an American, be mindful that one shouldn't speak about things they don't know about unless to ask a question.
I would refer you sir, to the bottom of the page right below that box that says +Reply to Thread to rule #2 -"Be polite. Flame the idea if you feel you must, but not the person."
You accused me of dishonoring the men and women of my countries military and sullying the blood shed in the name of my freedom. Well, I would say I am one and some of that blood is my own. I am a decorated U.S. military combat veteran, and I support my fellow veterans and service member in word and in deed. I can hold whatever opinions I wish, and feel like I have earned the right to them because I paid for that freedom with my own blood. My brothers and sisters in arms would say, " though I may not agree with your words,I will defend to the death your right to say them." I have merely exercised MY right under MY First Amendment as a U.S. citizen, we don't condemn people for opinions here in America. We do chastise them for being an asshole though.

[elian]

..and there are still people in the world who just can't believe that the Holocaust happened in Germany, that's why some of the camps were still left standing - you can go there and see them today..

So, when my friends and I were very young and immature teenagers and the internet was a new thing, one of us downloaded something with a title along the lines of "The Anarchist's Cookbook" or something like that..and printed the whole thing on the high speed line printer at school.

As far as I know none of us ever took it seriously, and I'm sure the copy of it is long gone but I remember we made a lot of jokes about how to remodel your house using the recipe it contained for using thermite to melt a concrete deck. How weird that twenty-something years later that's the only thing I can remember about it. So, if 5 teenage boys could find that on the internet in 1992, it's not like that knowledge isn't freely available if you know where to look.

Remember that this wasn't the first time the same group tried to bring down WTC, they had tried much earlier to do it through bombing in the 90's but failed, the towers apparently withstood that attempt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Wo...Center_bombing

Not only that but we've come to find out the Bill Clinton apparently had a shot at killing Osama Bin Laden as well.

"I nearly got him. And I could have killed him, but I would have to destroy a little town called Kandahar in Afghanistan and kill 300 innocent women and children, and then I would have been no better than him."

There are definitely people in the world who don't like the United States, I guess before 9/11 a lot of US Citizens didn't realize that?

I don't like that we have been at more than a decade of war. I don't like the way our country is polarized and divided, people can't even have basic respect any more if they don't agree with you. I happen to think that a "war on terror" is probably too similar to a "war on drugs" .. it's not that those things are aren't evil - but unfortunately they can be as open-ended as you'd like them to be because there will ALWAYS be evil in the world.

I had an opportunity to hear a talk from the bureau chief of reporting in the Middle East from NPR. She said that there is an amazing sense of history tied to the land. Here in the US there is plenty of land and opportunity such that if you don't like your life circumstances you can literally pick up, move elsewhere and start over. She said that over there people talk about the crusades as though it happened yesterday; because everywhere you look there is history and there is nowhere to go that you can escape it.

She literally asked a "pretty bad" man - "How is it that you can justify what you are doing?" - to which he took a faded photo of an old man with all of his children around him out of his pocket. The man pointed to the photo and said, "He made me promise that we would get our land back."

Believe it or not, there are some forces that are stronger than a trillion dollar defense budget. One is love - even if it twisted into something horrible that can justify murder, rape, extortion..

The other thing she said was that Islam has yet to go through any sort of reformation in the same way that Christianity did, therefore she was glad that we were there, trying to make room for democracy and more moderate voices to speak.

There aren't words to describe what our service members have done, I do think that they fought for freedom and justice, or at least to promote our own interests in the region; but I don't know that you can overcome 500 years of oppression overnight. Entire generations of people who only know violence leave the country bitter and numb. At least we tried...I am sorry. I hope that the people with the power to press the button will remember the costs.

What we ALL need to understand is that as long as there are corrupt world governments like the former Iraqi regime who gladly steal the resources of their own people hand over fist all the while saying, “Oh, woe is me, all of our problems are the fault of someone else” and as long as there are fanatical demagogues who lust for power and greed that can convince people that religion is about justifying hatred, sooner or later we will ALL suffer.

If what we are fighting for is to stand up for human rights and protect the rights of moderate people who want to practice their religion peacefully, then bless those who are fighting for freedom. If that is not why we are fighting, then perhaps we need to step back and examine just what we are fighting for. The reality is we cannot do this alone, we need the support of our own country, the support of other nations and the trust of those we are supposedly helping in order to bring more stability into the world.

[Gypsy_Rose]

I'm not voting as i am not convinced 100%, but there are too many questions and inconsistencies and doubts to think it is completely outside of the realm of possibility. I know from being in corporate management that works with the govt how much subterfuge, manipulation and deceit exist at my low level of the food chain. Magnify that up to the level of the white house and it is totally plausible that what we were told and shown in the media is not what happened, and that what really happened is so horrific, we were not told because we couldn't handle it. No one wants to hear their loved ones were "collateral damage" in a larger chess game being played by the governments of this planet.

To the side bar discussion here, if a forum thread exists about a topic you find offensive or disturbing, why read the thread in the first place much less come in and post about how the thread shouldn't exist? That smacks of trollish behavior to me. IMHO, YMMV. Cheers.

To all the lives lost that day: RIP, you will never be forgotten.

[tenni]

To the side bar discussion here, if a forum thread exists about a topic you find offensive or disturbing, why read the thread in the first place much less come in and post about how the thread shouldn't exist? That smacks of trollish behavior to me. IMHO, YMMV. Cheers. .

This is an interesting comment that I have read similar comments on this site before. I get the subtext meaning (right or wrong) that such thought of
"if you don't like what I say keep quiet and don't comment"

Imo people have a right to express their views on any topic introduced on this site regardless whether it is about sexual acts, political positions etc. Otherwise, we end up with pablum postings about how big is your cock, Does anyone like"...etc...lol Disagreement is not acting troll like imo.

I agree with perhaps the other alternate perspective that yes, if this upsets you maybe you will feel better not to read it. Feel justified to comment though that you find it distasteful for a bisexual mixed gender site, etc. We should not be afraid of well expressed views on any topic. Some topics such as fisting may not be the best to post on a bisexual site for the sake of respect. Posting gross offensive images can be delicate and I wonder why someone wants to use this site as a porn site if not to disturb and destroy any more civilized conversations. Fortunately, those posters were found to need a time out and that more than vanilla porn has vanished.

However, it is your right to read and react to anything on this site as long as you adhere to the rules about dealing with the issue and not the person per s ei

[myschyfnmayhem]

No but I firmly believe certain parts of the Govt knew it was coming and had policies in place to exploit the confusion after the events. I also believe certain of the Elite 1% and its higher lackies had contingencies for any event that let them get away with more Class War attacks on society. Our society has become much more militaristic since 9/11, we've given up rights,we've had major social freedoms disolved,our police forces are more like occupying armies than public protection. Our President openly lied to the people and admitted to interrogation methods that go against everything we were taught as Americans all our lives. It set America up to become this psuedoFascist/Imperialist state we've allowed the wealthy to form of a shell shocked population.

[Gypsy_Rose]

"if you don't like what I say keep quiet and don't comment"

that is not what i said. please don't twist my words.

when people on facebook post things i find upsetting, like animal abuse, i don't look at it. so i don't understand why someone would go read a thread topic that they know in advance is only going to upset or offend them, unless they are just looking for trouble.

when someone comes into a thread only to post disparaging remarks and belittle the topic, i do not feel that furthers or adds to an intelligent conversation and debate, and therefore offers little value to the thread topic. and while the old first amendment gives everyone the right to their opinion and the expression of it, you know what they say about opinions. i've always said, just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.

~shrug~

but i am sure someone will find a way to argue with this, after all it's the internet, where we all can speak our mind, and feel like we have some small sense of power and control. so that's exactly what everyone does. whatevs, have fun. i feel this has gone way too far off topic from the OP so i will just excuse myself from further discussion.

[guywholikesboth]

The Trade Center was built with the support beams bolted to the outside walls the bolts were only 6 inches each floor contained 1 acre of concreate The reason the second tower hit fell first was because the plane hit much lower than the first When the bolts bent with fron the heat of the fire it could no longer support the floor and that is why it looks like a controlled demolition. aside from the jet fuel the office were load with flamable products such as Furnitur, papers wallpapers and other items. After the first attach they descovered that the fire retarted foam was not good and they were in the process of repairing that the higher the floors the less retarting material was found. When they were built they sparayed the foam on and many days it was windy u could see it in the air

[open2both]

INSIDE JOB??
ARE U F*CKING ME?????

[Gearbox]

[QUOTE-2bi2Beboring]Gearbox
Apologies, I meant no offense. I was a bit unraveled and should have just ignored the thread. I find myself wishing I had at this point. i actually tried to remove that part of the comment but my hour of edit time expired and I had to let it stand. Sincere apologies.[/QUOTE]
I'd have gone for the bit about tinfoil hats and the need for prescription drugs, if you wanted to be insulting.
Am not insulted. I just get annoyed (and occasionally sarcastic.) when Joe claims that Bob is insane and needs medical help coz he doesn't share his beliefs.......and THAT is put forward as support for Joe's beliefs.lol
It's an attempt to silence by ridicule, and that's always a 'red flag' in various shades, and kinda like an open wound to nosy sharks.
YES I admit to going on Youtube knowing I'll get annoyed too. Evolution V's Creationism is great for that.