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Thread: circumcision

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    circumcision

    Good for Germany, eventually more countries will outlaw male genital mutilation like this or the practice will just die out like it has in most of the world.

    http://rt.com/news/germany-religious...ision-ban-772/

    Circumcision is a crime. It is involuntary genital mutilation. Let every child grow up with their genitalia intact, then let them decide as adults if they want to mutilate themselves.

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    Re: circumcision

    YEAH!! I agree. If they want it cut, let them decide when they are older. But I personally think all men should keep there penises intact

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    Re: circumcision

    Not that good for Germany... Merkel thinks the judge made the country a laughing stock and decided to put legislation b4 the bundestag to change the law back to the way it was.. not sure if it has happened yet, but alas, no doubt it shall b4 long...
    Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you.

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    Re: circumcision

    I'm not surprised at all about what this study found about male genital mutilation.

    The International Journal of Men’s Health has published the first study of its kind to look at the link between the early trauma of circumcision and the personality trait disorder alexithymia. The study, by Dan Bollinger and Robert S. Van Howe, M.D., M.S., FAAP, found that circumcised men are 60% more likely to suffer from alexithymia, the inability to process emotions.
    People suffering from alexithymia have difficulty identifying and expressing their emotions. This translates into not being able to empathize with others. Sufferers of severe alexithymia are so removed from their feelings that they view themselves as being robots. If acquired at an early age, such as from infant circumcision, it might limit access to language and impede the socialization process that begins early in life. Moderate to high alexithymia can interfere with personal relationships and hinder psychotherapy. Impulsive behavior is a key symptom of alexithymia, and impulsivity is a precursor to violence.
    The idea for the investigation came when the authors noticed that American men (for whom circumcision is likely) had higher alexithymia scores than European men (for whom circumcision is unlikely), and that European men had about the same scores as European and American women.


    A common reason fathers give for deciding to circumcise their son is so they will “look alike,” but these authors speculate that perhaps a subconscious motivation is so that they will “feel alike,” in other words as equally distant and emotionally unavailable as themselves. It was beyond this study’s design to test for this, and yet the comments received from circumcised participants speak to a vast psychic wounding, which, if unresolved, might lead to an unconscious desire to repeat the trauma upon others.
    The authors recommend that more research be conducted on this topic, but in the meantime, parents considering circumcising their infant son should be informed that circumcision might put their son at risk for alexithymia, including difficulty identifying and expressing his feelings, and for impulsive behavior. Psychologists counseling alexithymic patients should investigate the patient’s childhood and neonatal history for possible traumatic events, including circumcision.
    If this pattern of men suffering from circumcision-related trauma holds true for the general populace, this would constitute a significant mental health problem and, considering that three-fourths of the U.S. male population is circumcised, a public health problem, too.
    Alexithymia is from ancient Greek meaning, “having no words for feelings.” It was coined by psychotherapist Peter Sifneos in 1973 to describe a state of deficiency in understanding, processing, or describing emotions. Alexithymia tends to be persistent and chronic; it doesn’t diminish with time. This is unlike other trauma-based reactions, like post-traumatic stress disorder, which typically dissipate soon after the trauma.

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    Re: circumcision

    http://www.drmomma.org/2009/10/mri-s...y-altered.html

    MRI Studies: The Brain Permanently Altered From Infant Circumcision





    Two of my physics professors at Queen's University (Dr. Stewart & Dr. McKee) were the original developers of Positron Emission Tomography (PET) for medical applications. They and a number of other Queen's physicists also worked on improving the accuracy of fMRI for observing metabolic activity within the human body.

    As a graduate student working in the Dept. of Epidemiology, I was approached by a group of nurses who were attempting to organize a protest against male infant circumcision in Kinston General Hospital. They said that their observations indicated that babies undergoing the procedure were subjected to significant and inhumane levels of pain that subsequently adversely affected their behaviours. They said that they needed some scientific support for their position. It was my idea to use fMRI and/or PET scanning to directly observe the effects of circumcision on the infant brain.

    The operator of the MRI machine in the hospital was a friend of mine and he agreed to allow us to use the machine for research after normal operational hours. We also found a nurse who was under intense pressure by her husband to have her newborn son circumcised and she was willing to have her son to be the subject of the study. Her goal was to provide scientific information that would eventually be used to ban male infant circumcision. Since no permission of the ethics committee was required to perform any routine male infant circumcision, we did not feel it was necessary to seek any permission to carry out this study.

    We tightly strapped an infant to a traditional plastic "circumrestraint" using Velcro restraints. We also completely immobilized the infant's head using standard surgical tape. The entire apparatus was then introduced into the MRI chamber. Since no metal objects could be used because of the high magnetic fields, the doctor who performed the surgery used a plastic bell ("Plastibell") with a sterilized obsidian bade to cut the foreskin. No anaesthetic was used.

    The baby was kept in the machine for several minutes to generate baseline data of the normal metabolic activity in the brain. This was used to compare to the data gathered during and after the surgery. Analysis of the MRI data indicated that the surgery subjected the infant to significant trauma. The greatest changes occurred in the limbic system concentrating in the amygdala and in the frontal and temporal lobes.

    A neurologist who saw the results to postulated that the data indicated that circumcision affected most intensely the portions of the victim's brain associated with reasoning, perception and emotions. Follow up tests on the infant one day, one week and one month after the surgery indicated that the child's brain never returned to its baseline configuration. In other words, the evidence generated by this research indicated that the brain of the circumcised infant was permanently changed by the surgery.

    Our problems began when we attempted to publish our findings in the open medical literature. All of the participants in the research including myself were called before the hospital discipline committee and were severely reprimanded. We were told that while male circumcision was legal under all circumstances in Canada, any attempt to study the adverse effects of circumcision was strictly prohibited by the ethical regulations. Not only could we not publish the results of our research, but we also had to destroy all of our results. If we refused to comply, we were all threatened with immediate dismissal and legal action.

    I would encourage anyone with access to fMRI and /or PET scanning machines to repeat our research as described above, confirm our results, and then publish the results in the open literature.

    Dr. Paul D. Tinari, Ph.D.
    Director,
    Pacific Institute for Advanced Study

    See also:
    http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/brain_damage/

    I wonder if infant circumcision partly explains the many ills of American society? It does seem nations were circumcision are the norm, males seem to be more aggressive. US, Israel, Muslim Nations, South Korea. Koreans are known for being angry and hot blooded esp compared to other Asian ethnicites, I wonder if the high rate of circumcision has anything to do with it?

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    Re: circumcision

    Looks like you beat me to the punch pole_smoker. This is a damaging story for the circumcisers out there and they would love this to stay hidden. I have marched with intactivists trying to talk parents from cutting their boys and you would be surprised at the cut males who get so defensive over the whole issue. Mostly moms and wives of husbands were approaching me for information because their husbands or sons were going to have their boys snipped

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    Re: circumcision

    Likely total Crap, not validated science, needs much more work to be accepted as true.
    JEM

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    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by jem_is_bi View Post
    Likely total Crap, not validated science, needs much more work to be accepted as true.
    Actually no it's not.

    Circumcision or involuntary genital mutilation of infants is so painful it causes them to pass out from the pain and go into shock even if anesthesia is used.

    ATLANTA (CNN) -- A new study found circumcision so traumatic that doctors ended the study early rather than subject any more babies to the operation without anesthesia.
    The researchers discovered that for those circumcised without anesthesia there was not only severe pain, but also an increased risk of choking and difficulty breathing.
    Last edited by pole_smoker; Sep 16, 2014 at 11:51 PM.

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    Re: circumcision

    THE FACTS BEHIND CIRCUMCISION

    It's a common misconception that there are tangible health benefits to male circumcision, but the truth is no medical society in the world recommends it. This invasive procedure carries serious health risks, including infection, hemorrhage, surgical mishap, and death, as well many ethical considerations.
    Myth – Circumcising baby boys is a safe and harmless procedure.
    Fact – Surgically removing part of a baby boy's penis causes pain, creates immediate health risks and can lead to serious complications. Risks include infection, hemorrhage, scarring, difficulty urinating, loss of part or all of the penis, and even death. Circumcision complications can and do occur in even the best clinical settings.
    Myth – Circumcision is just a little snip.
    Fact – Surgical removal of the foreskin involves immobilizing the baby by strapping him face-up onto a molded plastic board. In one common method, the doctor then inserts a metal instrument under the foreskin to forcibly separate it from the glans, slits the foreskin, and inserts a circumcision device. The foreskin is crushed and then cut off. The amount of skin removed in a typical infant circumcision is the equivalent of 15 square inches in an adult male.

    Myth – Circumcision is routinely recommended and endorsed by doctors and other health professionals.
    Fact – No professional medical association in the United States or anywhere else in the world recommends routine circumcision as medically necessary. In fact, leaving boys intact is becoming the norm in the U.S., as parents realize the risks and harms of circumcision.

    Myth – The baby does not feel any pain during circumcision.
    Fact – Circumcision is painful. Babies are sensitive to pain, just like older children and adults. The analgesics used for circumcision only decrease pain; they do not eliminate it. Further, the open wound left by the removal of the foreskin will continue to cause the baby pain and discomfort for the 7-10 days it takes to heal.

    Myth – If I don't circumcise my son, he will be ridiculed.
    Fact – Times have changed and so has people's understanding of circumcision. Today, although the popularity of circumcision varies across geographical areas, nearly half of all baby boys born in the U.S. will leave the hospital intact. Most medically advanced nations do not practice child circumcision. Three quarters of the world's men are intact.

    Myth – A boy should be circumcised to look like his father.
    Fact – Children differ from their parents in many ways, including eye and hair color, body type, and (of course) size and sexual development. If a child asks why his penis looks different from that of his circumcised father (or brother), parents can say, "Daddy (or brother) had a part of his penis removed when he was a baby; now we know it’s not necessary and we decided not to let anyone do that to you."

    Myth – Routine circumcision of baby boys cannot be compared to Female Genital Mutilation.
    Fact – Rationales offered in cultures that promote female genital cutting – hygiene, disease prevention, improved appearance of the genitalia, and social acceptance – are similar to those offered in cultures that promote male circumcision. Whatever the rationale, forced removal of healthy genital tissue from any child – male or female – is unethical. Boys have the same right as girls to an intact body, and to be spared this inhumane, unnecessary surgery.

    Myth – To oppose male circumcision is religious and cultural bigotry.
    Fact – Many who oppose the permanent alteration of children's genitals do so because they believe in universal human rights. All children – regardless of their ethnicity or culture – have the right to be protected from bodily harm.

    Myth – Circumcising newborn baby boys produces health benefits later in life.
    Fact – There is NO link between circumcision and better health. In fact, cutting a baby boy's genitals creates immediate health risks. The foreskin is actually an important and functional body part, protecting the head of the penis from injury and providing moisture and lubrication. Circumcision also diminishes sexual pleasure later in life.

    Myth – Male circumcision helps prevent HIV.
    Fact – Claims that circumcision prevents HIV have repeatedly been proven to be exaggerated or false. Only abstinence or safe sex, including the use of condoms, can prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS.

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    Re: circumcision

    The brain alteration stuff is the subject of my reply. Likely done without institutional approval which make it unethical behavior of those that did the study.
    JEM

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    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by jem_is_bi View Post
    The brain alteration stuff is the subject of my reply. Likely done without institutional approval which make it unethical behavior of those that did the study.
    OK that obviously did not happen since they apparently did have funding and approval, and other studies have shown that circumcision or male genital mutilation is very painful when performed unwillingly on an infant, young boy, or even adult man.

    There are many more studies that deal with the behavioral affects that this has and they are overwhelming and conclusive. This is a heinous act to commit against a totally defenseless individual, only humans do this to their own offspring.

    Genital mutilation is a crime, the only sexual violation of children tolerated or condoned in large portions of certain societies. No one who commits abuse thinks they are causing harm regardless of what they are doing or what their reasoning is but what one person thinks does not change the reality that circumcision or male genital mutilation does disfigure the penis with scaring, make the penis far less sensitive, reduces penis length and circumference, and the sexual partners of 'cut' men both male and female describe sex with cut men as being less pleasurable compared to sex with a male partner that's intact.


    Last edited by pole_smoker; Sep 17, 2014 at 12:09 AM.

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    Re: circumcision

    This, after all, is the topic of male genital mutilation, which has become so 'humdrum' that society casually refers to it as "circumcision", as a way of not identifying it for what it is: mutilation.




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    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by jem_is_bi View Post
    The brain alteration stuff is the subject of my reply. Likely done without institutional approval which make it unethical behavior of those that did the study.
    It was the approval of the parents and at any rate, if the study showed something, it should be investigated. Why should all the files be ordered to be destroyed if there was evidence of harm. If the reason for destroying the files was merely due to a supposed unethical behavior, that would seem to be a bigger crime since the results showed more harm done by the procedure of circumcision than just exposing the child to a scan.

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Who is watching the ethics board of institutions to make sure they are not doing harm to others? Money is a very powerful tool and the poor child strapped down can say nothing but scream then later claimed he was not harmed cause it happened too early in his life and he is unaware of what damage was already done.

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    Re: circumcision

    I can personally attest to the damage done to me by circumcision even though I was cut as an infant. I have told a few on here some of my details but I was told to write a book so I did. This is not a promotion of any time but if you are interested in reading my book on Amazon it is called Restoring, a Private Journey Home.

    I have been restoring my foreskin. Although I cannot gain my nerve endings back, I have experienced so much benefit from regaining my new foreskin. However, whatever brain damage done to me from the early experience I guess is permanent.

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    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    THE FACTS BEHIND CIRCUMCISION

    It's a common misconception that there are tangible health benefits to male circumcision, but the truth is no medical society in the world recommends it. This invasive procedure carries serious health risks, including infection, hemorrhage, surgical mishap, and death, as well many ethical considerations.
    Myth – Circumcising baby boys is a safe and harmless procedure.
    Fact – Surgically removing part of a baby boy's penis causes pain, creates immediate health risks and can lead to serious complications. Risks include infection, hemorrhage, scarring, difficulty urinating, loss of part or all of the penis, and even death. Circumcision complications can and do occur in even the best clinical settings.
    Myth – Circumcision is just a little snip.
    Fact – Surgical removal of the foreskin involves immobilizing the baby by strapping him face-up onto a molded plastic board. In one common method, the doctor then inserts a metal instrument under the foreskin to forcibly separate it from the glans, slits the foreskin, and inserts a circumcision device. The foreskin is crushed and then cut off. The amount of skin removed in a typical infant circumcision is the equivalent of 15 square inches in an adult male.

    Myth – Circumcision is routinely recommended and endorsed by doctors and other health professionals.
    Fact – No professional medical association in the United States or anywhere else in the world recommends routine circumcision as medically necessary. In fact, leaving boys intact is becoming the norm in the U.S., as parents realize the risks and harms of circumcision.

    Myth – The baby does not feel any pain during circumcision.
    Fact – Circumcision is painful. Babies are sensitive to pain, just like older children and adults. The analgesics used for circumcision only decrease pain; they do not eliminate it. Further, the open wound left by the removal of the foreskin will continue to cause the baby pain and discomfort for the 7-10 days it takes to heal.

    Myth – If I don't circumcise my son, he will be ridiculed.
    Fact – Times have changed and so has people's understanding of circumcision. Today, although the popularity of circumcision varies across geographical areas, nearly half of all baby boys born in the U.S. will leave the hospital intact. Most medically advanced nations do not practice child circumcision. Three quarters of the world's men are intact.

    Myth – A boy should be circumcised to look like his father.
    Fact – Children differ from their parents in many ways, including eye and hair color, body type, and (of course) size and sexual development. If a child asks why his penis looks different from that of his circumcised father (or brother), parents can say, "Daddy (or brother) had a part of his penis removed when he was a baby; now we know it’s not necessary and we decided not to let anyone do that to you."

    Myth – Routine circumcision of baby boys cannot be compared to Female Genital Mutilation.
    Fact – Rationales offered in cultures that promote female genital cutting – hygiene, disease prevention, improved appearance of the genitalia, and social acceptance – are similar to those offered in cultures that promote male circumcision. Whatever the rationale, forced removal of healthy genital tissue from any child – male or female – is unethical. Boys have the same right as girls to an intact body, and to be spared this inhumane, unnecessary surgery.

    Myth – To oppose male circumcision is religious and cultural bigotry.
    Fact – Many who oppose the permanent alteration of children's genitals do so because they believe in universal human rights. All children – regardless of their ethnicity or culture – have the right to be protected from bodily harm.

    Myth – Circumcising newborn baby boys produces health benefits later in life.
    Fact – There is NO link between circumcision and better health. In fact, cutting a baby boy's genitals creates immediate health risks. The foreskin is actually an important and functional body part, protecting the head of the penis from injury and providing moisture and lubrication. Circumcision also diminishes sexual pleasure later in life.

    Myth – Male circumcision helps prevent HIV.
    Fact – Claims that circumcision prevents HIV have repeatedly been proven to be exaggerated or false. Only abstinence or safe sex, including the use of condoms, can prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS.
    Yes yes yes...totally agree. Of course I am sure there will be those who try to debate it all but the facts are there. Thanks for posting this

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    Re: circumcision

    This is so frustrating! Knowing all this information is available, and not being able to convince my ultra conservative, redneck son to even look at it. My grandson will be born next month and I have been told to stop beating this dead horse, he's gonna get mutilated. Yes, he is curcumsized as well and yes I was an ultra conservative redneck when he was born 30 some years ago. Honestly, I don't even remember if I was asked, it was just done.

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    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypersexual11 View Post
    This is so frustrating! Knowing all this information is available, and not being able to convince my ultra conservative, redneck son to even look at it. My grandson will be born next month and I have been told to stop beating this dead horse, he's gonna get mutilated. Yes, he is curcumsized as well and yes I was an ultra conservative redneck when he was born 30 some years ago. Honestly, I don't even remember if I was asked, it was just done.
    Can you talk to your daughter-in law?

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    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypersexual11 View Post
    This is so frustrating! Knowing all this information is available, and not being able to convince my ultra conservative, redneck son to even look at it. My grandson will be born next month and I have been told to stop beating this dead horse, he's gonna get mutilated. Yes, he is curcumsized as well and yes I was an ultra conservative redneck when he was born 30 some years ago. Honestly, I don't even remember if I was asked, it was just done.
    Wow it is amazing how brainwashed we can get to believe anything. I am so sorry that you are going through that. You know back in the 50's it was not only approved by western medicine, but accepted by the public to have your tonsils taken out if you had a sore throat. Now it makes no sense whatsoever since the tonsils are key to the immune system.

    There are many other body parts that western medicine deems unessential and can be removed. It is funny I guess the Creator made some mistakes huh...just joking

    You know in some areas it is a felony to circumcise girls. Same principle here but I guess guys are dispensible. Again so sorry to hear what you are going through

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    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypersexual11 View Post
    This is so frustrating! Knowing all this information is available, and not being able to convince my ultra conservative, redneck son to even look at it. My grandson will be born next month and I have been told to stop beating this dead horse, he's gonna get mutilated. Yes, he is curcumsized as well and yes I was an ultra conservative redneck when he was born 30 some years ago. Honestly, I don't even remember if I was asked, it was just done.
    Additional note here..maybe you can get hom to watch some of these babies being circumcised to get the low down. The screams are horrific and it is not normal. When I was in a protest recently to the mutilation, I cannot tell you the moms I had come up to me to give them information cause their sons were going to have their son cut to look like daddy. The moms knew what was going on

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    Re: circumcision

    I appreciate your notes. I have spoke to them both about this. Asked them to read up and educate themselves before making this decision. My son is easily swayed and if it was just him, I could talk him out of it. But his life is ruled by the iron fist of his wife who aint havin no freak fer a son and that's that!

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    Re: circumcision

    Our son hasn't had this done. And it was a big family topic that started to get extended family in. It finally stopped when I had absolutely enough.

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    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by pole_smoker View Post
    OK that obviously did not happen since they apparently did have funding and approval, and other studies have shown that circumcision or male genital mutilation is very painful when performed unwillingly on an infant, young boy, or even adult man.

    The GRADUATE STUDENT funding was through the institution and funded Principal Investigator. His unfunded, unapproved study was all on his own initiative.
    MORE COMMENTS on this total nonsense study

    As a graduate student working in the Dept. of Epidemiology, I was approached by a group of nurses who were attempting to organize a protest against male infant circumcision in Kinston General Hospital. They said that their observations indicated that babies undergoing the procedure were subjected to significant and inhumane levels of pain that subsequently adversely affected their behaviours. They said that they needed some scientific support for their position. It was my idea to use fMRI and/or PET scanning to directly observe the effects of circumcision on the infant brain.

    COMMENT:
    SCIENTIST or graduate student with a biased agenda?


    The operator of the MRI machine in the hospital was a friend of mine and he agreed to allow us to use the machine for research after normal operational hours. We also found a nurse who was under intense pressure by her husband to have her newborn son circumcised and she was willing to have her son to be the subject of the study. Her goal was to provide scientific information that would eventually be used to ban male infant circumcision. Since no permission of the ethics committee was required to perform any routine male infant circumcision, we did not feel it was necessary to seek any permission to carry out this study.

    COMMENT:
    GRADUATE STUDENT with a social/moral agenda has made an assumption that is TOTALLY WRONG!! You must have permission for a study such as that, You cannot steal time on a multimillion dollar machine for a bogus study. It MUST get institutional approval from a committee that determines the scientific merit and human rights and moral implications of the study. (THAT IS NEVER OPTIONAL)


    We tightly strapped an infant to a traditional plastic "circumrestraint" using Velcro restraints. We also completely immobilized the infant's head using standard surgical tape.

    COMMENT: They forgot to mention the horrific banging noise generated for many minutes during the study that the infant was subject to before and after surgery. DO YOU THINK THE RESTRAINS and HORRENDEOUS NOISE MIGHT HAVE INFLUENCED THE OUTCOME OF THE STUDY!!!



    COMMENT: GOOD SCIENCE or GRADUATE STUDENT WITH AN AGENDA BEING TOTALLY UNETHIC

    You need to be more critical of the sources of your facts to be credible as a spokesman for your extremely biased and self-righteous views
    JEM

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    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by jem_is_bi View Post

    You need to be more critical of the sources of your facts to be credible as a spokesman for your extremely biased and self-righteous views
    My views are neither "extremely biased" or 'self righteous'. The majority of cultures and people around the world do not practice genital mutilation on their sons, or daughters.

    For decades people (even so called medical professionals) actually believed such BS as "infants do not feel any pain at all during a circumcision". Which is not true, as it's been proven to be one of the most painful things to happen. Not just for infants but for adults as well. Even with anesthesia that still does not make male or female genital mutilation any less painful for the unfortunate person it is being performed on.

    Is anyone really surprised? A person's genitals were not meant to be involuntarily mutilated this way.

    Infant Responses to Circumcision

    The baby began to gasp and choke, breathless from his shrill continous screams.


    PAIN RESPONSE DURING CIRCUMCISION

    To help in determining the degree of pain and stress caused by circumcision, infant response was compared to that resulting from other procedures. Levels of cortisol (a hormone released into the blood in response to stress) and behavioral responses were recorded for newborns undergoing circumcision, heel-stick blood sampling, weighing and measuring, and discharge examination. Circumcision resulted in significantly higher levels of behavioral distress and blood cortisol levels than did the other procedures. Since the infant is restrained during circumcision, the response to the use of restraint was similarly tested and was not found to be measurably distressing to newborns.

    Circumcision is a surgical procedure that involves forcefully separating the foreskin from the glans and then cutting it off. It is typically accomplished with a special clamp device (see Fig. 2). Over a dozen studies confirm the extreme pain of circumcision. It has been described as “among the most painful [procedures] performed in neonatal medicine.” In one study, researchers concluded that the pain was “severe and persistent.” Increases in heart rate of 55 beats per minute have been recorded, about a 50 percent increase over the baseline. After circumcision, the level of blood cortisol increased by a factor of three to four times the level prior to circumcision. Investigators reported, “This level of pain would not be tolerated by older patients.”
    Circumcision pain is described in this research study by Howard Stang and his colleagues from the Department of Pediatrics, Group Health Inc., and the University of Minnesota Institute of Child Development: “There is no doubt that circumcisions are painful for the baby. Indeed, circumcision has become a model for the analysis of pain and stress responses in the newborn.” They report that the infant will “cry vigorously, tremble, and in some cases become mildly cyanotic [having blueness or lividness of the skin, caused by a deficiency of oxygen] because of prolonged crying.”
    According to adult listeners in one study, the infant’s response during circumcision included a cry that changed with the level of pain being experienced. The most invasive part of the procedure caused the longest crying. These cries were high pitched and were judged most urgent. A subsequent study confirmed that cries with higher pitch were perceived to be more distressing and urgent. Excessive crying can itself cause harm. In a rare case, an infant cried vehemently for about ninety minutes and ruptured his stomach. Using a pacifier during circumcision reduced crying but did not affect hormonal pain response. Therefore, while crying may be absent, other body signals demonstrate that pain is always present during circumcision.
    Another perspective on the infant’s response to circumcision pain is provided by Marilyn Milos, who witnessed a circumcision during her training in nursing school:
    We students filed into the newborn nursery to find a baby strapped spread-eagle to a plastic board on a counter top across the room. He was struggling against his restraints—tugging, whimpering, and then crying helplessly. . . . I stroked his little head and spoke softly to him. He began to relax and was momentarily quiet. The silence was soon broken by a piercing scream—the baby’s reaction to having his foreskin pinched and crushed as the doctor attached the clamp to his penis. The shriek intensified when the doctor inserted an instrument between the foreskin and the glans (head of the penis), tearing the two structures apart. The baby started shaking his head back and forth—the only part of his body free to move—as the doctor used another clamp to crush the foreskin lengthwise, which he then cut. This made the opening of the foreskin large enough to insert a circumcision instrument, the device used to protect the glans from being severed during the surgery. The baby began to gasp and choke, breathless from his shrill continuous screams. . . . During the next stage of the surgery, the doctor crushed the foreskin against the circumcision instrument and then, finally, amputated it. The baby was limp, exhausted, spent.
    There is disagreement among physicians about using anesthesia during circumcisions. Prior to the mid-1980s, anesthesia was not used because infant pain was denied by the medical community. That belief has changed among many physicians, but an anesthetic still is not always administered due to a lack of familiarity with its use, as well as the belief that it introduces additional risk. Although there is indication that the risk is minimal, some physicians who perform circumcisions do not use anesthetics even after they are taught how. When an anesthetic is used, it relieves only some but not all of the pain, and its effect wanes before the post-operative pain does. The most effective form of anesthetic involves injections into the penis.
    Continuing research in this area tends to compare existing options rather than trying new techniques, suggesting that accepting some pain during circumcision is unavoidable. Meanwhile, some physicians’ views about the use of anesthesia during circumcision grow more intense. In a medical article on the subject, the writers described circumcision without pain relief as “barbaric.” Another physician wrote that subjecting an adult to the same practice would be “unfathomable.”
    BEHAVIORAL RESPONSE FOLLOWING CIRCUMCISION

    Various studies investigated the effect of circumcision on infant behavior. Some studies found differences in sleep patterns and more irritability among circumcised infants. In addition, changes in infant-maternal interaction were observed during the first twenty-four hours after circumcision. For example, breast- and bottle-fed infants’ feeding behavior has been shown to deteriorate after circumcision. Other behavior differences have been noted on the day following the procedure. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) Task Force on Circumcision noted these various behavioral changes resulting from circumcision in their report.
    Researchers found that European reports of newborn infant responses to hearing and taste stimulation showed little difference in responses between males and females, while related tests on American infants showed significant gender differences. Investigators suggested that these differences could be the result of circumcision and not gender.
    In one of the most important studies, the behavior of nearly 90 percent of circumcised infants significantly changed after the circumcision. Some became more active, and some became less active. The quality of the change generally was associated with whether they were crying or quiet respectively at the start of the circumcision. This suggests the use of different coping styles by infants when they are subjected to extreme pain. In addition, the researchers observed that circumcised infants had lessened ability to comfort themselves or to be comforted by others.
    Some mothers and nurses who contacted the Circumcision Resource Center also noted behavior changes. Sally Hughes, an obstetrical nurse who has seen many circumcised infants before they go home, reported,
    When you lay them on their stomachs they scream. When their diaper is wet they scream. Normally, they don’t scream if their diaper is wet. Baby boys who are not circumcised do not scream like that. The circumcised babies are more irritable, and they nurse poorly.
    Mothers reported that their infants changed temperament after the circumcision, cried for extended periods at home, and seemed inconsolable. See Circumcision, Persistent Crying (Colic), and Parental Stress.
    Researchers at Children’s Hospital in Boston noted changes in sleep patterns, activity level, irritability, and mother-infant interaction. They concluded,
    The persistence of specific behavioral changes after circumcision in neonates implies the presence of memory. In the short term, these behavioral changes may disrupt the adaptation of newborn infants to their postnatal environment, the development of parent-infant bonding, and feeding schedules.
    A team of Canadian researchers produced evidence that circumcision has long-lasting traumatic effects. An article published in the international medical journal The Lancet reported the effect of infant circumcision on pain response during subsequent routine vaccination. The researchers tested 87 infants at 4 months or 6 months of age. The boys who had been circumcised were more sensitive to pain than the uncircumcised boys. Differences between groups were significant regarding facial action, crying time, and assessments of pain.
    The authors believe that "neonatal circumcision may induce long-lasting changes in infant pain behavior because of alterations in the infant’s central neural processing of painful stimuli." They also write that "the long-term consequences of surgery done without anaesthesia are likely to include post-traumatic stress as well as pain. It is therefore possible that the greater vaccination response in the infants circumcised without anaesthesia may represent an infant analogue of a post-traumatic stress disorder triggered by a traumatic and painful event and re-experienced under similar circumstances of pain during vaccination."

  24. #24
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    Re: circumcision

    Eventually male genital mutilation will die off both as something done as a silly religious custom, and as a pointless cultural practise.

    According to the children’s ombudsmen of the Nordic countries, male circumcision is a form of genital mutilation and they’re fighting to ban the practice. Representatives from Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, Finland, Norway, and Greenland all recently met in Norway with doctors and surgeons who agreed on one thing: the fight for the right to keep foreskin.


    In a campaign, which launched in September, they concluded that the procedure is in conflict with the UN Convention of the Rights of the Child, which says, “Children should have the right to express their own views and be protected from traditional rituals which may be harmful to their health.”

    In other words, the boys should wait until they’re old enough to decide for themselves. This all began when a 16-year-old Icelandic boy asked if his parents had the right to circumcise him when he was a baby. The matter was brought to the attention of Iceland’s children’s ombudsman, Margaret Maria Sigur­ardottir.


    “The leading health professionals here in Iceland, who also signed the Nordic statement, believe that circumcision without medical indication, of a person who is unable to provide consent violates fundamental medical-ethical principles,” Margaret told me over the phone. “They have therefore refused to perform such procedures.”


    The children’s hospital in Reykjavik completely stopped circumcising boys in 2011.

    Famous men have voiced their opinions and resentment on being circumcised, too—Ben Affleck, John F. Kennedy, and Jacques Derrida who, despite being Jewish, left his sons uncircumcised.

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    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by JUSTLUVIN View Post
    Additional note here..maybe you can get hom to watch some of these babies being circumcised to get the low down. The screams are horrific and it is not normal. When I was in a protest recently to the mutilation, I cannot tell you the moms I had come up to me to give them information cause their sons were going to have their son cut to look like daddy. The moms knew what was going on
    This is a blog you may like:
    http://circregretstories.blogspot.com/

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    Re: circumcision

    My thoughts are this about religious circumcision: it's supposed to be a covenant between you and your deity (it's done in more than just Christianity). If this is done to you involuntarily as an infant - no covenant can possibly have been made. If your religious convictions are strong enough to drive you to alter your body, that should be a decision that you personally make, not your parents. Furthermore, you should be required to be at least the age of consent in your nation before you can actually have this done, as frankly, most minors don't have the wherewithal to know what the hell they are actually doing at any given moment.

    That said, I personally don't understand why any religion would require you to mutilate what your creator has given you. I suspect a lot of the more odd things in religion are things that were sneaked in by random priests' own opinions rather than any direct revelation from their deity - but it's hard to tell where the line between madness/power-abuse and divine inspiration lay. Follow your heart and hope you're not a misguided crazy person is my best advice.

    Additionally, I agree that involuntary mutilations (I include ear-piercing on the list) should be forbidden. If someone wants circumcision, piercings, tattoos, etc, etc - let them freely decide to do it as an adult. Just to point out here: I have no qualms with these practices, so long as it is the choice of the individual receiving them made while under no duress. Doing this stuff to an infant or naive child is unconscionable.

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    Re: circumcision

    Well said! Plus One to you!!

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    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by jem_is_bi View Post
    The GRADUATE STUDENT funding was through the institution and funded Principal Investigator. His unfunded, unapproved study was all on his own initiative.
    MORE COMMENTS on this total nonsense study

    As a graduate student working in the Dept. of Epidemiology, I was approached by a group of nurses who were attempting to organize a protest against male infant circumcision in Kinston General Hospital. They said that their observations indicated that babies undergoing the procedure were subjected to significant and inhumane levels of pain that subsequently adversely affected their behaviours. They said that they needed some scientific support for their position. It was my idea to use fMRI and/or PET scanning to directly observe the effects of circumcision on the infant brain.

    COMMENT:
    SCIENTIST or graduate student with a biased agenda?


    The operator of the MRI machine in the hospital was a friend of mine and he agreed to allow us to use the machine for research after normal operational hours. We also found a nurse who was under intense pressure by her husband to have her newborn son circumcised and she was willing to have her son to be the subject of the study. Her goal was to provide scientific information that would eventually be used to ban male infant circumcision. Since no permission of the ethics committee was required to perform any routine male infant circumcision, we did not feel it was necessary to seek any permission to carry out this study.

    COMMENT:
    GRADUATE STUDENT with a social/moral agenda has made an assumption that is TOTALLY WRONG!! You must have permission for a study such as that, You cannot steal time on a multimillion dollar machine for a bogus study. It MUST get institutional approval from a committee that determines the scientific merit and human rights and moral implications of the study. (THAT IS NEVER OPTIONAL)


    We tightly strapped an infant to a traditional plastic "circumrestraint" using Velcro restraints. We also completely immobilized the infant's head using standard surgical tape.

    COMMENT: They forgot to mention the horrific banging noise generated for many minutes during the study that the infant was subject to before and after surgery. DO YOU THINK THE RESTRAINS and HORRENDEOUS NOISE MIGHT HAVE INFLUENCED THE OUTCOME OF THE STUDY!!!



    COMMENT: GOOD SCIENCE or GRADUATE STUDENT WITH AN AGENDA BEING TOTALLY UNETHIC

    You need to be more critical of the sources of your facts to be credible as a spokesman for your extremely biased and self-righteous views
    I beg to differ with your findings. Yes, maybe the ethics of using a multi million dollar machine may be in question but using a machine without permission will not affect the findings on the machine.

    You speak of the graduate student being biased, one cannot say that the established medical community is not already biased. One will study to find what one wants to find. Phrenology was something that used to be thought of as good science until someone figured out that the size of one's head did not dictate the amount of intelligence one has. Of course we know better these days but that used to be accepted. I can see a graduate student of the day using an expensive device of its time and asking questions, maybe without permission, but whether he or she used it or not still would not change the facts. So with that in mind, there will be arguments good and bad on both sides. Yet I tend to lean toward leaving the penis alone unless absolutely necessary.

    "Good science" keeps an open mind. It used to be that when science discovered something either by mistake or by intent, they studied the problem, not throw out the evidence because of how it was done.

    The western medical community ( and I won't put them all in the same basket) has been influenced by money and power so I don't see how we can look at established medical procedures without some suspect. There are many cases to point out to this matter. So we should question the practice of circumcision, look at all the facts, do studies that are not biased either by graduate students supposedly biased or the established medical community that has been biased for years by money, politics, and power.

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    Re: circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by JUSTLUVIN
    So true pole_smoker. Unfortunately I lost the thousands of nerve endings in the foreskin that was cut off that I will never be able to experience, Only a truly uncut man will know. However, I am quite surprised that since my glans has been covered 24/ 7. I can actually feel it again. And what's more, I can actually just touch my glans and get an erection. Back some 5 years ago, it took more than that to get me hard. Plus the color has changed and looks healthy again.

    As far as the AIDS study, the original one was flawed in that they had uncircumcised men go and have sex unprotected while the circumcised men wore condoms...sort of a no brainer. Also, it is being discovered that there are some healthy bacteria under the foreskin that help protect against disease.

    Glands in the foreskin actually produce antibacterial and antiviral proteins such as lysozyme that is also found in tears and breast milk. specialized cells in the foreskin's mucousal lining secrete antibodies that defend against infection.

    It goes along the lines of western medicines philosophy to "fight" disease. Unfortunately this "fight" as the case is in antibiotics, kills the good bacteria from the system causing more problems. I am all for cleanliness but pardon the pun, we sometimes throw the baby out with the bath water.

    I have been on doctors visits and they assumed I was intact and gave me the lectures on cleanliness. I never told them hehe.
    That's very odd that the doctor mentioned that. A penis that's intact is not dirty, and it's like any other body part. You just wash it with soap and water like you would any other body part and that's it. There's no special requirement or anything like that.

    I've never had any sort of medical professional mention about keeping my penis clean or anything like that.

    If you were a woman do you think the doctor would have said, "Now make sure you douche, and clean under your labia, and all that skin or else you're dirty!"

    Yes those studies about HIV and STDs and how male genital mutilation supposedly prevents infection or having the HIV neg partner of a cut man not get infected are highly flawed, and are actual "crappy science".

    It's called assuming everyone who you're sexually active with is HIV+ or has another STD, not doing stuff involving blood to blood exchange, and using condoms. HIV is actually a lot more difficult to get than certain diseases are.

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    Re: circumcision

    Ok truth be told I have NOT read all the comments. Just saying…
    I’m circumcised and had my son circumcised and don’t regret it…
    Now (truth be told) I always fantasied about being with a uncut dick.

 

 

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