I was outed!

[Gearbox]

Tenni is but one example of folks whom posit that is easier to understand cheating by bisexuals. I am aware that is not saying they condone it. In my view, it equivocates to condoning. This is my opinion, my feeling, my thought and I'm aware of that

Now THAT makes it easier to understand why you have those ideas.
They are wrong. You know they are wrong. But your feelings about it are enough reason to claim that one is as bad as the other.

I suppose you feel it's all fine and dandy that a bi guy could betray your love. "Oh, I understand why he cheated, he's bisexual. I'll
excuse him."
See my point now? You're granting special treatment to bisexuals. I don't like that idea. Not when many fight to attain equality. If we
desire equality, we don't take special treatment, especially not for mistakes.

Due to you classing two different things as the same thing, I could hardly clear that up. If I say "I understand why some bi's cheat.", you'll read, "I condone bi's cheating especially.".
I also understand why some smoke, eat at Mcdonalds, drink themselves stupid, go bareback, drink & drive, take drugs etc, but I'd expect you to think that I don't condone any of that. I just understand (or try to understand) the reasons why they do it.

Cheaters KNOW they are doing wrong, but they have reasons why they do it. Everything has a reason! Same for you and Drugstore who get the wrong end of the stick coz that's the end you FEEL like taking. It gets you both posting contradictory accusations that you both know are wrong, coz they come from what you FEEL and not reason.
Cheaters FEEL too. They are not monsters, nor evil villains out to cause intentional harm etc. They are just like the many of us who FEEL.......and we all know what can happen to reason when that happens.

[tenni]

Void
As far as I can figure out, I do not understand why it is so important to you that someone else may or may not cheat on their partner? You know that it is also immoral for you to suck cock in some people's minds.

[chapsmccall]

i caught my last gf going thru my cell and she got booted to the curb personal space is just that personal

[darkeyes]

Void
As far as I can figure out, I do not understand why it is so important to you that someone else may or may not cheat on their partner? You know that it is also immoral for you to suck cock in some people's minds.

Cant speak for Voidie, Tenni.. but is important 2 me for several reasons... I h8 seeing misery and pain even in peeps I hardly know or don't know.. but in peeps I am close 2 and care for ver much.. it twists in me gut like a knife cos I care for them and it fucking hurts 2 c peeps I care about tearing apart ther lives.... and none of it need have been... but that sadly is the world we live in... and no doubt I will c it and go through that torture again b4 I'm dead an gone......

[void()]

Now THAT makes it easier to understand why you have those ideas.
They are wrong. You know they are wrong. But your feelings about it are enough reason to claim that one is as bad as the other.


Due to you classing two different things as the same thing, I could hardly clear that up. If I say "I understand why some bi's cheat.", you'll read, "I condone bi's cheating especially.".
I also understand why some smoke, eat at Mcdonalds, drink themselves stupid, go bareback, drink & drive, take drugs etc, but I'd expect you to think that I don't condone any of that. I just understand (or try to understand) the reasons why they do it.

Cheaters KNOW they are doing wrong, but they have reasons why they do it. Everything has a reason! Same for you and Drugstore who get the wrong end of the stick coz that's the end you FEEL like taking. It gets you both posting contradictory accusations that you both know are wrong, coz they come from what you FEEL and not reason.
Cheaters FEEL too. They are not monsters, nor evil villains out to cause intentional harm etc. They are just like the many of us who FEEL.......and we all know what can happen to reason when that happens.

Yes, reason flies out the window. I did not pretend to post anything but my opinion, feeling.

I understand you and others are not exactly condoning in understanding. I feel you are, but
technically speaking you are not. I very much dislike the sentiment or feeling that many here
seem or feel to be condoning the cheating. No, I cannot merely alter my feeling. I dislike
cheating and think it is wrong, immoral.

As everyone else was posting opinion, I opined as well. That was all I did. And I was
opining against an idea, thought, feeling not any one person or subset of people.

[void()]

Void
As far as I can figure out, I do not understand why it is so important to you that someone else may or may not cheat on their partner? You know that it is also immoral for you to suck cock in some people's minds.

It is important in consideration of others to engage in relationships. If I'm not engaging them, really
not my concern. I want it clear upfront, I don't cheat and will not engage with cheaters. To me
cheating is immoral.

As I expressed to Gear, everyone else here was opining their opinions, figured I'd interject mine.
That's what a freely open public forum is about. I was within the guidelines and rules in my posting.
I was posting my opinion against an idea, thought, feeling.

As to others finding it immoral that I suck cocks, well, they can choose to not engage with me. It's
the same process of me not engaging those whom cheat, simple enough really.<sarcasm> And you know, I will for sure be all up in their faces and abase them for not appreciating me sucking cock. Riiiiiiight! </sarcasm>

Actually it would be quite the opposite. I'd just go find some non-cheating guy whom did like me sucking cock.

So, short answer, it really isn't that important to me. I did feel an urge though to express my opinion, equally, as others seem keen to do. Again, it's a public forum.

Also, I appreciate Fran's view about suffering. Don't really care much to see folks suffer. But hey, just opinion in a public forum.

[Gearbox]

Yes, reason flies out the window. I did not pretend to post anything but my opinion, feeling.

I understand you and others are not exactly condoning in understanding. I feel you are, but
technically speaking you are not. I very much dislike the sentiment or feeling that many here
seem or feel to be condoning the cheating. No, I cannot merely alter my feeling. I dislike
cheating and think it is wrong, immoral.

As everyone else was posting opinion, I opined as well. That was all I did. And I was
opining against an idea, thought, feeling not any one person or subset of people.

I really can't bare the thought of anybody eating kebabs. That doesn't make it immoral to eat a kebab in front of me.lol

The confusion you may get from my views of cheating, is that I view the rules that create cheating to be immoral, so neither cheat nor cheated are moral IMO. The cheater maybe doubly so, but what would you expect after signing up for something that's immoral in the first place?
But I don't (or try not to) judge either to be wicked or sinful etc, just usual people who make usual mistakes like we all do. The cheated AND cheater come here asking for help and/or support coz they both need it.
We can label them moral or immoral if we like, but neither care.

[alittlebendy]

For the record I do love her and she's a "snooper" meaning its her nature to read mail, look through bank statements, and look into drawers and medicine cabinets.

[alittlebendy]

In fact she said when the shit hit the fan "you trust that I'll snoop thriough your stuff" and she admitted that she had many times in the past. More times than I caught her. I was going to tell her about it (no lie) but how does one broach the subject? Its not like "honey I wrecked your car" is it? The question is ethical. Is it right to do somthing mildly illigal (reading someone's mail) to find (not suspect mind you) if somthing someone did was moral?

[void()]

I really can't bare the thought of anybody eating kebabs. That doesn't make it immoral to eat a kebab in front of me.lol

The confusion you may get from my views of cheating, is that I view the rules that create cheating to be immoral, so neither cheat nor cheated are moral IMO. The cheater maybe doubly so, but what would you expect after signing up for something that's immoral in the first place?
But I don't (or try not to) judge either to be wicked or sinful etc, just usual people who make usual mistakes like we all do. The cheated AND cheater come here asking for help and/or support coz they both need it.
We can label them moral or immoral if we like, but neither care.

Which makes it purely ironic and nearly funny if one thinks about it too much. I state an opinion that I don't care beyond being engaged with someone, if they cheat or not. If I engage with them then, yes I will avoid what I consider immoral. To that end it is like some preferring tight arses over full tits. I don't care, not for me to judge beyond engaging with them intimately or not. And they don't care, you say.

So if none of us really care, why all this vitriol over my having an opinion? See how ironic that becomes? I mean really, it's a public forum on the tubes, everyone has opinions. Ironic then, when I state my opinion it seems I'm dubbed a scoundrel. Fine, I'll just remain silent. Enjoy the site I guess.

[Gearbox]

Which makes it purely ironic and nearly funny if one thinks about it too much. I state an opinion that I don't care beyond being engaged with someone, if they cheat or not. If I engage with them then, yes I will avoid what I consider immoral. To that end it is like some preferring tight arses over full tits. I don't care, not for me to judge beyond engaging with them intimately or not. And they don't care, you say.

So if none of us really care, why all this vitriol over my having an opinion? See how ironic that becomes? I mean really, it's a public forum on the tubes, everyone has opinions. Ironic then, when I state my opinion it seems I'm dubbed a scoundrel. Fine, I'll just remain silent. Enjoy the site I guess.

Its when opinions directly misrepresents people that a problem crops up. Of course they are going to protest and ask "Why do you think that of me?" if they don't agree.
Nobody cares if we think them moral or not, but they do care when they are ill treated.

[tenni]

In fact she said when the shit hit the fan "you trust that I'll snoop thriough your stuff" and she admitted that...The question is ethical. Is it right to do somthing mildly illigal (reading someone's mail) to find (not suspect mind you) if somthing someone did was moral?

Well, alittlebendy, I think that you infer the answer to your own question by referring to her snooping as mildly illegal. Is it mildly or a serious immoral act?

The entire invasion of privacy issue is rampant in society today with government, google, etc. making us believe that such invasive approaches are correct to "protect" our safety etc. Overall, have we become accepting that we have no privacy?

You knew that she would snoop through your stuff you post. Did you protest this when you first caught her (before she found that you were hiding your bisexuality and cheating). Maybe you should have kicked her to the curb the first time you caught her cheating (immorally to obtain her goal of knowing more about you) by snooping behaviour of invasion of privacy. Such people need to learn that this is immoral invasion of privacy even in a long term relationship.

It seems clear from the responses that some people on this site consider it not immoral for a partner to invade your privacy. Some even infer that there should be no boundaries of privacy if you are in a relationship(regardless how long)...Hell some give the impression that others (mostly it seems g/f ? )should be expected to be immorally invading people's privacy after date 2... ..only slight exaggeration.

[darkeyes]

Interesting thing opening our partner's mail and such llike.. no I don't mean the content tho no doubt if naughtiness was going on, opening my partner's mail could well be interesting in quite another way... at home we do not open each other's mail but not because of any privacy issue.. we don't because it is ill-mannered so to do. Technically it would be an illegal act if we did not give our say so to each other to open it.. if either of us are away from home, as I shall be next week on a training course, my mail will be opened by Kate just in case there is something which needs quick attention. .. and we discuss what we receive in the mail anyway for we are neither of us frightened of its content and we do share information.. I don't care if she reads my post first.. neither do I get hot and bothered if, as I do, I ask her to check txt messages should I not be in the room and I hear my fone ping, sing or burp.. and she does the same to me.. in fact neither of us cares much mostly if one is out and the kids are the only one's in the house or room... my fone and my mail are an open book to her as hers is to me...

My journal however is a very personal thing... and I have always been quite protective of its contents... but she has read much of it because she has asked and sometimes I have shown her to show off...... but if she does so she can read any part of it, for any year going back to its beginning almost 20 years ago when I was just a spoilt little girl of 14. The kids however are banned!! And anyone else goes into the locked glass doored cabinet where they sit on pain of death... they are much too personal, and often sexually explicit. they could be a blackmailers joy.and I don't mean blackmailing of me for there are names, often addies and also frequently pics.. not rude pics, at least not really rude pics..... but quite clearly identifiably pics of people who I am sure would be quite unhappy if the contents of my journal fell into the wrong hands.... however Kate doesn't often ask because in them is also my angst.. my stresses.. my fears... the frustrations of my life and she is very uncomfortable with reading many of those... but they are there if she wants to.. she only needs to ask, but we discuss most of those messy things anyway and it is easier for her to hear it and foor us to discuss it than for her to read any of it,, my anguish about her monogamous nature and my own quite different feeling if read can also be a particular bone of contention but as with everything, it is not a taboo subject at home and it does get a reasonably frequent airing...

.. we have shared the odd net password.. but not all, and tbh we don't intend to. Although I suppose we should... we don't intend to mainly because they are passwords to accounts where there is no joint interest and also unlike normal mail, we have easy access to it wherever we happen to be either by fone or by computer... arguably.. if we have no secrets, or have none about which we have fears or reservations about our partner finding out, then really we should give access to all.. that is surely total trust? Yet sometimes there are things we don't want our partner finding out.. these should be little secrets although I admit not always..... like surprises arranged over the net or some such trivia... we need to keep records of some things we don't want our partners to know... not for sinister reasons but simply because until the right time they should not know... and yet, we both have no knowledge of certain of each other's accounts passwords.. this place is one such an example, as are certain e accounts... my work account and her work accounts for example but there are one or two more general...

So we do have sufficient areas where should we if so chose we could snoop.. and secrecy idoes exist n that we do not have access to other areas where possibly each of us may wish to snoop... but not many... and a simple request mostly would open such accounts to each other... but we all know there are other ways of hiding things...either on the net or elsewhere.. but if we trust implicitly.. should there be? Is there any justification for other than possibly work or external in confidence accounts from other organisations in which we are involved and the other is not?

Food for thought...

[hasty1]

Hi alittlebendy

I'm glad your back, it's been a while. I'm wondering how you and your girlfriend are doing? In answer to your question in your last post, in my opinion (for what it's worth) neither snooping or cheating are desirable in a relationship, but trying to claim the moral high ground after being discovered cheating by her snooping won't be particularly helpful. I suspect that you will end up discussing the wrong thing, so, how goes it?

[Gearbox]

Hi alittlebendy

I'm glad your back, it's been a while. I'm wondering how you and your girlfriend are doing? In answer to your question in your last post, in my opinion (for what it's worth) neither snooping or cheating are desirable in a relationship, but trying to claim the moral high ground after being discovered cheating by her snooping won't be particularly helpful. I suspect that you will end up discussing the wrong thing, so, how goes it?

Do you snoop on your husband then Hasty?

[hasty1]

Do you mean my husband, who I left 10 years ago or my current partner? I was with my ex-husband for 24 years and never snooped or cheated. I found out that he was cheating when he took a phone call from her within earshot, from that point on I observed what he did and said, but nothing else. Life with him was hell, I was sexually rejected on an epic scale, and lied to on a daily basis. I never wanted another relationship and was quite happily having nsa sex with whoever I wanted when my partner came into my life.

With my current partner I have to admit I did snoop once, and he was hiding something, just not the thing I thought he was. I told him what I'd done the same day and offered to not come home. To his credit he wanted to talk about it, we had a very frank conversation and he forgave me ,which eventually has led to us being much happier. It's no defence against my actions, but we have been dealing with more than my trust issues and his bisexuality. I have very few privacy issues myself, I've offered to let him see anything he wants, I've nothing to hide and I'm prepared to discuss anything that he feels I've said or done that might be questionable. Even my picture on this site is designed to let him know it's me, he will recognise it from the website we met on.

For what it's worth my last post was simply advice, they both have been wrong, draw a line under it and work out what happens next, don't argue about who did the 'wrongest' thing. (yeah, I know that's not a word, but who cares.

[Gearbox]

I told him what I'd done the same day and offered to not come home.

That was a bit extreme wasn't it? You didn't kill his dog or anybody!
Not that snooping is lovely, but confiding in him is.

In my experience of partners who have had really bad previous partners, they tend to be overly cautious and suspicious of you (unless that's just me!lol). They tend to think that you are going to do the same as the bad one. That's not really surprising considering that the bad one was a nice bloke too at the beginning. So being nice is no guarantee!
Its no wonder you have trust issues, but it's a big PLUS that you are open about that! That's the important thing IMO, not what you did. You get help to deal with it.

It would be a nice change to get our stuff out in the open on the third date instead of the usual, "I like trees, charity work, and being lovely....yada yada!". We could have "I got to deal with....yada..yada...yada...and I'm lovely!", instead.
Could save a lot of time and energy. But as you prob know, that's like pulling teeth for most!

[cherry88]

in my opinion (for what it's worth) neither snooping or cheating are desirable in a relationship, but trying to claim the moral high ground after being discovered cheating by her snooping won't be particularly helpful.

hasty1, this was some masterful understatement...... i think its =really= hilarious how some people will claim the right to 'cheat' (or hide bank accounts so your wife wont get your money in a divorce?? now thats some shaky moral ground) but get totally bent out of shape when someone 'snoops'.. as though one is more 'moral' than the other.. maybe snooping bothers them so much because, they have so much to hide!

either way i kind of agree it does appear the op kinda knew his wife was prone to snooping and i often do think peopel leave stuff around in cases like that becuase some part of them wants to get caught.... / i do wonder if that wasnt the case this time. i also agree - at this point, no harm no foul, both of them crossed the line and it wont help arguing about it, what they need to do now is just TALK IT OUT and figiure out what -will- work for them in the future. both crossed the line, both obvously are not communicating honestly, and the productive thing to do at this point is move forward rather than backward.

Do you snoop on your husband then Hasty?

i know this wasnt directed to me but i do have to say im almost 50 years old and somehow ive gotten to this point without ever cheating, or ever snooping..../// on -anyone-, ever..... if i want to find out something about my lover, I ASK THEM. i know, pretty off the wall huh. and as far as i know, i also dont engage with either cheaters, or snoopers.... i dont believe ive ever been cheated on; and i havent ever caught anyone snooping on me. i wouldnt want my partner doing either, if my partner wants to know stuff about me THEY CAN ASK ME. i know, what a mind fuck. i try to live my life so i have nothign to hide.... i really sleep better that way.

for waht its worth i learned my lesson about snooping as a child. when i was a preteen i stumbled onto my mothers diary. i didnt really know what i was doing and read some of it, and it was soooo traumatizing, that i realized that snooping is a slippery slope. often times, when you read stuff that isnt yours to read, you see information you would rather not see. i think that cured me of 'snooping' pretty early on.

also i just hate dishonesty. if i cant ask my partner stuff i need to know, and if they cant ask me stuff they need to know, honestly neither of us are probably capable of maintaining an adult relationship, and should just be single. honestly. im really not kidding. yeah sex is complicated and love is complicated but being a decent human being, how hard is that. really.

[void()]

Nobody cares if we think them moral or not, but they do care when they are ill treated.

Not really ill treatment to not prefer engaging in relationships with cheaters. I am sure
other folks avoid people of color, nationality, religion, shape and so on. It is a matter of
preference and no one seems to feel it treats others ill.

So, no I'm going to feel guilt for having and expressing an opinion, or preference. It does
not matter how much you seem to desire such being the case, not happening. Nor will
I feel wrong, or degraded for having and expressing an opinion or preference.

You obviously have your own opinions and preference/s. I don't see anyone trying
to degrade you for them, or for expressing them in a public forum. Isn't that fairly
peculiar? To me that seems a bit of a double standard.

Not going to pay much heed to it. I know that I stated I'd remain silent. Hard to
do that and not point out clear facts. And so now, ...

[Gearbox]

Not really ill treatment to not prefer engaging in relationships with cheaters. I am sure
other folks avoid people of color, nationality, religion, shape and so on. It is a matter of
preference and no one seems to feel it treats others ill.

So, no I'm going to feel guilt for having and expressing an opinion, or preference. It does
not matter how much you seem to desire such being the case, not happening. Nor will
I feel wrong, or degraded for having and expressing an opinion or preference.

You obviously have your own opinions and preference/s. I don't see anyone trying
to degrade you for them, or for expressing them in a public forum. Isn't that fairly
peculiar? To me that seems a bit of a double standard.

Not going to pay much heed to it. I know that I stated I'd remain silent. Hard to
do that and not point out clear facts. And so now, ...

Nobody asked you to go have a cup of tea with some cheaters, or told you not to express your opinions etc. But when those opinions have a negative effect on others they at lest deserve to know why you have them.
I know why, so no harm done.

[Gearbox]

i know this wasnt directed to me but i do have to say im almost 50 years old and somehow ive gotten to this point without ever cheating, or ever snooping..../// on -anyone-, ever....

If I make it to 50 without cheating or snooping, I'm going to have it written in the LGBT Times. Not long left now, if we can only resist it for a few more years, there'll be parades and everything.
I'm willing to share the front page if you are?lol

It is a bit tragic that we have to point that out as if it's against the 'norm', but I have to do just that more often than I should. Maybe once or twice with women, but every single time with men.
Reason being - I didn't tell any women that I was bi. Didn't need to. That's prob dishonest in a way, but it had no effect on them so why bother? That's my excuse.
It's a damn good excuse, I found out much later when telling gay men that I'm bi. Suddenly, not a word that comes out of my mouth can be taken for what it is.lol Somehow my sexuality is like Dextor's 'dark passenger', hiding in the background waiting to pounce, and I'm just as much a victim of it as them. I expect that I've been snooped on, but don't mind really. Like you, I'd just tell them anyway if there was a prob. I'd like to see them try shutting my gob about it!

[cherry88]

If I make it to 50 without cheating or snooping, I'm going to have it written in the LGBT Times. Not long left now, if we can only resist it for a few more years, there'll be parades and everything.
I'm willing to share the front page if you are?lol

haha! i really didnt want to let this go without answering. i -really- love parades ^^

so yeah im totally into that but only if we can have a huge naked tea party with a whole bunch of cheaters which will usher in a new era of world peace between the nations..... @@ it'll be a historic day... *wiping away tear*


but i mean i know you were joking but the thing is i mean i kind of wanted to clarify that at least in my case its never been a case of resisting...... i mean honestly ive been in several very long term very committed relationships..... ive never once been in a casual relationship..... i dont even really date...// i just dont have any interest in that at all. im a committed person and get off sexually on trust and commitment and depth of emotional connection, rather than variety.... so even though in relationships im often sexually turned on by a variety of people, and fully expect my partner to be, and think thats super normal, ive honestly never even ONE TIME wanted to take it further than that...... especially if my partner wasnt involved. like several times ive been open to threesomes or whatever but that was because my partner was inviolved.. i really cant fathom the concept of -wanting- to be with someone sexually besides the person im with at the time.. ive just never even remotely wanted it. so ive never been in a position to need to resist, its always been not only easy for me, but a total non issue. its slightly harder to resist snooping at times but not really. so neither of those things has ever really been even remotely a struggle for me, i guess i am just lucky??

so i mean, i think whether or not thats the case has a lot to do with what a pereson values sexually. if a person gets off on variety or enjoys many casual relatoinships they will want lots of partners. if a person gets off more on the emotional connection and wants just a few very committed partners, they will be less inclined to want lots of partners.... thats just a guess. im also one of those that tends to have a very small number of very loyal friends as well..... not a huge bunch of loose aquaintances.. i value that in all my relationships. i think its just a personal preference. so i see both approaches as totally valid for different people depending what they value in their life..... im not sure why some people prefer one or the other if its nature or nature or a combination im sure its all that stuff. but sometimes i think its just a true preference, its not always societal conditioning.... i would definitely like to see a world where there was more acceptance of the wide variety of human experience so that nobody felt they had to hide and so that nobody felt what they wanted wasnt an option... :>>

my daughters world is like that... im happy to see it. in her world there is no such thing as 'straight or gay' thats seen as ridiculously limiting. her friends are a wide range of pansexual, asexual, multisexual, transexual, non monagamous, committed but platonic, poly open, poly fidelitous, etc etc etc.... in her world you can sort of make it up as you go. i think thats just perfect. the one constant is, they all value honesty. in a world like that theres no need to be dishonest.

It is a bit tragic that we have to point that out as if it's against the 'norm', but I have to do just that more often than I should. Maybe once or twice with women, but every single time with men.
Reason being - I didn't tell any women that I was bi. Didn't need to. That's prob dishonest in a way, but it had no effect on them so why bother? That's my excuse.

hmmm ok well i spent a lot of time thinking about this stuf.. i can understand this and to a point agree that it doestn affect other people.. up to a point. in casual dating, in a short term relationship maybe it -doesnt- affect them but you agree that after a point it begins to, right? i mean if she is with you for a couple years and she is getting serious about you and making long term plans and stuff dont you think it would affect her at that point? im ont saying it has to, im jsut curious. it jsut seems to me, in my mind, the more your life gets intwined with someone elses the more that stuff -does- begin to affect the other person.... i guess thats totally open to debate and everyone draws that line in a different place... i certainly hope that future guys tell me if theyre bi... cause if they dont we'll be missing out on some great sex :<<

It's a damn good excuse, I found out much later when telling gay men that I'm bi. Suddenly, not a word that comes out of my mouth can be taken for what it is.lol Somehow my sexuality is like Dextor's 'dark passenger', hiding in the background waiting to pounce, and I'm just as much a victim of it as them.

i actually googled dexters dark passenger so i could understand what you were referring to here. :>> i really gave this a huge amount of thought tryign to understand this. i guess what you are saying is that gay men trust you more if they think youre gay? and straight women trust you more if they dont know one way or the other? but when people find out you are bi suddenly its a big mysterious thing they dont trust or understand and are very suspicious of????

that really sucks that gay men seem prejudiced against bi people ??? wow. it also makes me sad how little many women seem to appreciate how awsome being bi can be??? its a shame. but i guess i understand it its like being biracial maybe, you are kind of betwen worlds, its harder to get accepted in either world. its really a shame if thast the case and that isnt right.

like i said i really hope that by the time my daughter is (well damn.. i was gonna say by the tme shes an adult, then i forgot shes in her 3rd year of college, DURRRFRR) honestly though when my daughters generation is in charge of stuff (and yours too) i am quite sure there will be a whole lot more acceptance of the wide amazing gorgeous variety of human experience and how beautiful and nifty it is and how awesome it is and how great it is and that people have a billoin choices and we can find partners who are like us and want us for what we are..... just like people dont care about interracial marriage anymore.

I expect that I've been snooped on, but don't mind really. Like you, I'd just tell them anyway if there was a prob. I'd like to see them try shutting my gob about it!

HAHA damn straight. // ok well im really looking forward to that parade i hope everyone will be there for the massive naked tea party and subsequent sex party im super looking forward to it <3 <3 <3

[Gearbox]

@ Cherry- Even though neither of us put any effort into getting the awards, damn right we can still get up there and claim it. I already practice the naked tea party bit in groups of two, but I'll keep at it to prepare myself for 100's.lol
I think that we both swing to non-complications, and that's how we've managed it all these years. We just can't be bothered with a big fuss. I've spent most of my time trying to keep things simple. Now THAT is a big effort coz not many things come pre-packed in 'simple' . It's def a fight against the tide very often.
Like you, I enjoy long term relationships and not really need sex outside them. The more your with a person, the more emotionally and sexually connected you get and it makes everything even better. But when single, I am promiscuous and have a great time getting intimate with complete strangers too. I still prefer fuckbuds though, coz you carry on where you left off.lol

I never told any female partners about me being bi coz it really didn't effect them. I hadn't had sex with a male since puberty, an although I never lost the desire to, those desires were not something I needed to act on. I was perfectly fine with just women. That was prob due to suppression but I really don't know. I'm 50/50 and classed my attraction to other men the same as I classed my attraction to other women. So I didn't point out either attractions to female partners.
BUT if I had a dire urge to go have sex with men pop up, I HOPE I would have told them. I think I was just lucky that I wasn't in a relationship when it did.
For those who were in relationships when that happens, I can completely understand how stressful that can be.

That 'dark passenger' thing isn't far off the mark IMO, so I can kinda understand why gays & straights have trouble with bi's on that level. As you can see, I was bi all the time in m-f relationships but ok with living as hetero. Today I'm having sex with men and not seeking m-f relationships, living as gay but am still the same bi as I was before. That's still a bit of a turnaround isn't it?
To many gays & straights it looks like I don't have a clue about what's going on myself and my WHOLE sex & love life is a big mess of gay & straight. It also looks like I've had no control over it.
That is a fair point IMO! So even though I will claim that I am NOT confused and won't turn straight or gay at any moment due to factors beyond my control, they are prob thinking "You poor soul! You just can't help yourself can you?".
I've had a Good Samaritan bloke come to my aid and swear that he'll do all he can to wash away my liking of women. That he'd make it easier for me to love him etc. Then I get thinking that it's not ME who's confused. I loved women despite liking men.lol
BUT I can see how it gets confusing. I don't like it, but there yu go.

[*pan*]

this is one of the reasons, i will always tell my partner i am bisexual, i would rather let it end there early in the relationship then to live in a lie taking a chance of falling in love and end with broken hearts. this just happened recently and didn't hurt as much as it would have if i didn't say anything. with all that said, the trust has been broken and it's up to you to try and repair the damage if she will let you. if she will understand and take you as you are.

[cherry88]

@ Cherry- Even though neither of us put any effort into getting the awards, damn right we can still get up there and claim it. I already practice the naked tea party bit in groups of two, but I'll keep at it to prepare myself for 100's.lol
I think that we both swing to non-complications, and that's how we've managed it all these years. We just can't be bothered with a big fuss. I've spent most of my time trying to keep things simple. Now THAT is a big effort coz not many things come pre-packed in 'simple' . It's def a fight against the tide very often.

ha! i think you are right about this.. love can be very complicated but on other levels, really a lot of people just totally overthink stuff.

BUT if I had a dire urge to go have sex with men pop up, I HOPE I would have told them. I think I was just lucky that I wasn't in a relationship when it did.
For those who were in relationships when that happens, I can completely understand how stressful that can be.

well it just raises a lot of questions... i mean.. -do- bisexual people get the urge to be with others while in relationships, more often than non-bisexual people, really?? or not?? its kind of an interesting question. i mean if you look at each human being as an individual, then every human being on the planet can give a person soemthing their partner cannot...... i mean the idea that one sex provides something the other cannot, doesnt necessarily follow that thats somethign that -needs- to be acted on in a relationship.... its interesting to think about.

if a person can be with one woman and not 'need' another woman, surely they can be with a woman and not 'need' to be with a man right???? people are peopel right? we all have somethign different to offer dont we? or is that too simplistic?? i think some people are just non monagamous..... indpendent of their sexuality. while some people are monagamous, independent of their sexuality...

That 'dark passenger' thing isn't far off the mark IMO, so I can kinda understand why gays & straights have trouble with bi's on that level. As you can see, I was bi all the time in m-f relationships but ok with living as hetero. Today I'm having sex with men and not seeking m-f relationships, living as gay but am still the same bi as I was before. That's still a bit of a turnaround isn't it?
To many gays & straights it looks like I don't have a clue about what's going on myself and my WHOLE sex & love life is a big mess of gay & straight. It also looks like I've had no control over it.
That is a fair point IMO! So even though I will claim that I am NOT confused and won't turn straight or gay at any moment due to factors beyond my control, they are prob thinking "You poor soul! You just can't help yourself can you?".
I've had a Good Samaritan bloke come to my aid and swear that he'll do all he can to wash away my liking of women. That he'd make it easier for me to love him etc. Then I get thinking that it's not ME who's confused. I loved women despite liking men.lol
BUT I can see how it gets confusing. I don't like it, but there yu go.

you know.. i admit. i find it harder to 'trust' my bf now that i know he is not monagamous. and it -is- a 'dark passenger' thing. its something i really dont understand, i dont get the motivation behind it, its a big mystery to me and as such it seems like something huge, scary, unpredictable, and alien to me....

the interesting thing is, while we were just talking about it, i -didnt- find it big or scary or weird at all...... or feel he was less trustworthy becuase of it.. only after soemthign happened (an action outside our relatoinship agreement) that -was- hugely terifying and difficult for me to understand, and really was severely outside the bounds of ethics in my mind, that made me feel he -didint- really seem to be in control at all........ then yes, it began to sort of look like that to me.. this 'thing' that apparenlty motivates him that i have absolutely no understaning of, and which seems very extremely likely to 'make' him do stuf that is very hurtful and painful which he -doesnt- seem to have a lot of control over..... so i think its a very interesting analogy.

so yeah it looks a littile scary from the outside and -does- honestly make me trust him a little less, than someone who isnt likely to do stuff like that... its sad to admit that, but its true. im not sure hes really inherently any less trust worthy as a person. its just cause i dont totally udnerstand the motivation behind it. // its interesting that a gay guy would be more concerned about you leaving him for a woman, than just another guy....... // you know? both seem equally likely to happen or not happen. the difference probalby is just that he is less familiar with the motoivations that make one desire a woman.

however the more i udnerstand waht motivates him the more trust i regain. like anything stuff is scarier when you dont understand it of course.

[Gearbox]

you know.. i admit. i find it harder to 'trust' my bf now that i know he is not monagamous. and it -is- a 'dark passenger' thing. its something i really dont understand, i dont get the motivation behind it, its a big mystery to me and as such it seems like something huge, scary, unpredictable, and alien to me....

The best way I can describe the compulsion for a bi to venture into their bisexuality (get same gender sex) is to compare it with a females compulsion to have a baby.
Some women go through life perfectly happy without a child even though at the back of her mind she wants one. She puts it off and it's not that much of a big deal coz she's happy enough being childless and it gets suppressed. BUT sometimes the ticking clock comes along and it tells her that stuff needs to be dealt with before it's too late. It's always there, but the ticking gets DEAFENING!
That is what I mean by 'dark passenger'. The instincts that our bodies and minds will only tolerate to be kept in the dark for so long before it demands an airing.

well it just raises a lot of questions... i mean.. -do- bisexual people get the urge to be with others while in relationships, more often than non-bisexual people, really?? or not?? its kind of an interesting question. i mean if you look at each human being as an individual, then every human being on the planet can give a person soemthing their partner cannot...... i mean the idea that one sex provides something the other cannot, doesnt necessarily follow that thats somethign that -needs- to be acted on in a relationship.... its interesting to think about.

If you consider that the act of same gender sex for SOME bi's is more to do with who he/she is than just the act itself, you may understand the urge for it?
No that doesn't mean that bisexuality is promiscuous in nature, but it can have strings to self expression and it's sating of. It's not just extra sex they are after, but also (in many cases) mutual acceptance of a natural part of their ID, IMO. For many, failing to accomplish that can lead to depression. It seems that we have drastically different levels in that regards to reach a point of self discovery that we are happy with, but that is pretty foggy at the mo as far as I can tell.

the interesting thing is, while we were just talking about it, i -didnt- find it big or scary or weird at all...... or feel he was less trustworthy becuase of it.. only after soemthign happened (an action outside our relatoinship agreement) that -was- hugely terifying and difficult for me to understand, and really was severely outside the bounds of ethics in my mind, that made me feel he -didint- really seem to be in control at all........ then yes, it began to sort of look like that to me.. this 'thing' that apparenlty motivates him that i have absolutely no understaning of, and which seems very extremely likely to 'make' him do stuf that is very hurtful and painful which he -doesnt- seem to have a lot of control over..... so i think its a very interesting analogy.

He was daft to go outside the boundaries that he agreed to! But at least you appreciate that it wasn't to hurt you or damage the relationship.
It seems like while he's out discovering what makes him tick, you are taking the opportunity to see what makes you tick too. That IMO is partly what relationships are for. You have already stretched your comfort level by relaxing some boundaries and THAT is no small task, as you know. You are treating your partner as a person to be explored and that is how we get past fears etc.
When we cease fearing the unknown and uncontrolled, we can just get on with the love.

so yeah it looks a littile scary from the outside and -does- honestly make me trust him a little less, than someone who isnt likely to do stuff like that... its sad to admit that, but its true. im not sure hes really inherently any less trust worthy as a person. its just cause i dont totally udnerstand the motivation behind it. // its interesting that a gay guy would be more concerned about you leaving him for a woman, than just another guy....... // you know? both seem equally likely to happen or not happen. the difference probalby is just that he is less familiar with the motoivations that make one desire a woman.

I'm 'different', so was hard to relate to for the gay bloke. I prob didn't understand him either, but that doesn't scare me. And that lack of vulnerability/fear gives no guarantee that I'd have responsibility for his fears. I don't share them, but do consider them. He thought that he needed a hold on me so he could love without fear IMO. That is what I notice about many of the monogamous. That's why rules are in place to keep the fear at bay and give love a breathing space. But the more rules in place, the more like fine china they become. The more like fine china they become, the more out of control their fears get.
I hope you will come to a point where NOTHING scares you and you realize that your not some antique porcelain doll, but a woman who takes on something that puts her in jeopardy willingly. I know what fear is, believe me, so can appreciate how extreme even a tiny step can be. I CAN guarantee that it's well worth every effort.

[cherry88]

The best way I can describe the compulsion for a bi to venture into their bisexuality (get same gender sex) is to compare it with a females compulsion to have a baby.
Some women go through life perfectly happy without a child even though at the back of her mind she wants one. She puts it off and it's not that much of a big deal coz she's happy enough being childless and it gets suppressed. BUT sometimes the ticking clock comes along and it tells her that stuff needs to be dealt with before it's too late. It's always there, but the ticking gets DEAFENING!
That is what I mean by 'dark passenger'. The instincts that our bodies and minds will only tolerate to be kept in the dark for so long before it demands an airing.

urrghghghg its kind of hard to hear and think about but i get it.... this is just how my bf describes it. i get the feeling it is something he would feel regret, if he were not able to do at the times it comes up. // or, that he was not doing what he was 'supposed' to be doing with his life... // yup. makes a lot of sense thank you.

If you consider that the act of same gender sex for SOME bi's is more to do with who he/she is than just the act itself, you may understand the urge for it?
No that doesn't mean that bisexuality is promiscuous in nature, but it can have strings to self expression and it's sating of. It's not just extra sex they are after, but also (in many cases) mutual acceptance of a natural part of their ID, IMO. For many, failing to accomplish that can lead to depression.

this also makes sense to me.... this also is the way my bf describes it. he describes the important parts of it in terms of getting to know himself, 'growing up' etc etc he is very clear the actual act was not the important part of it for him. the important part of it was beign himself and expressing his real self. he has said many times the actual event was not that important and totally was nowhere near worth risking our relationship as it did...... however he feels (and i really understand this) it -was- very very important that he did something that he felt was part of expressing his real self. to him that was the important part of it.

that actually kind of helped me cause origianlly what pissed me off so bad was the idea that he was so willign to throw away our relatoinship over something (In my eyes) totaly meaningless like 5 mins of sex. it actually helped me realize that the actual reason for doing it was -deeply- important to him.

He was daft to go outside the boundaries that he agreed to! But at least you appreciate that it wasn't to hurt you or damage the relationship.
It seems like while he's out discovering what makes him tick, you are taking the opportunity to see what makes you tick too. That IMO is partly what relationships are for. You have already stretched your comfort level by relaxing some boundaries and THAT is no small task, as you know. You are treating your partner as a person to be explored and that is how we get past fears etc.
When we cease fearing the unknown and uncontrolled, we can just get on with the love.

my bf has acted with a lot of integrity the whole time ive known him. i share a lot of his motivations and reasons for doing the stuff we do as adults... we just express some of it in different ways... the credit goes to him for being trustworthy and really putting a lot of effort into that. he has acted in a trustworthy way and he has done a lot to help me udnerstand him and trust him. a lot of that credit goes to him. he has worked really hard this whole past year and we still go to therapy every week and he participates in every way. hes made a lot of effort to meet me halfway and show me that he values this relationship and doesnt want to hurt me, and that has helped me stretch for him.

this is somethign that people who feel they need to be dishonest, could learn from. its really tough to act with integrity and it takes being strong and it takes self denial at times however in the long run, it is the way to -realy- get what you want. my bf could have taken the easy way to get what he wants, do it behind my back and hope i dont find out, or he could put in the effort to get what he wants, and cultivate a relatoinship in which he is really supported and understood in getting what he wants... the second way takes a LOT more work.. a lot more patience and a bit of sacrifice.. however i think that this work will pay off for him, becuase he wil lhave what he -realy- wants which is a good strong relatoinship in which he can -also- really be himself openly, and feel good about it. he is smart enough to realize this and also ballsy enough to do the work to make that hapen and the credit for that definitely goes to him. at this point i honestly feel terrible for putting him through what i have now that i understand more what he was tryign to do. thats a big turnaround from last year. if more partners would put in the kind of effort maybe more would get that kind of response from -their- partners. (dunno)

I'm 'different', so was hard to relate to for the gay bloke. I prob didn't understand him either, but that doesn't scare me. And that lack of vulnerability/fear gives no guarantee that I'd have responsibility for his fears. I don't share them, but do consider them. He thought that he needed a hold on me so he could love without fear IMO. That is what I notice about many of the monogamous. That's why rules are in place to keep the fear at bay and give love a breathing space. But the more rules in place, the more like fine china they become. The more like fine china they become, the more out of control their fears get.
I hope you will come to a point where NOTHING scares you and you realize that your not some antique porcelain doll, but a woman who takes on something that puts her in jeopardy willingly. I know what fear is, believe me, so can appreciate how extreme even a tiny step can be. I CAN guarantee that it's well worth every effort.

i agree. with love especially sometimes the harder you work for something sometimes the sweeter it is... and i -hope- i would get to a point where nothing scares me!

perfect love casteth out fear but boy that is so hard to achieve sometimes. the credit goes to my bf for being a very ethical person with a lot of integrity and faith in himself and willingness to do hard work and be patient. if more people could do that a bit more maybe they could get more understanding from thier partners at these times.