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  1. #1

    Religious Circumcision

    We have often discussed this issue... but I didn't expect this from Germany.. and if I may say so.. if they can get it to stick... good.

    http://www.rt.com/news/germany-relig...ision-ban-772/
    Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you.

  2. #2

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Whee, time to kick all the Jews out of the Germany (again). Nothing to be remotely disturbed about here. The Muslim Immigrants should just go elsewhere if they don't completely agree with our system of values.

    This of course won't end circumcision any more than banning abortion ends abortion. It'll drive it underground and turn people into criminals for just being themselves. And those that don't want to do this in the inquisition style will just leave and then hold a grudge, thus meaning that it won't actually prevent circumcision, but it will certainly cause a lot of angry people to hate Germany.

    Also, I would add, it means the primacy of people of White, Christian heritage for being civilized over...well, Muslims, Jews, and Americans: 30% of the world's circumcised and being told they're barbaric certainly won't enlighten them.
    Last edited by jimdawg; Jun 26, 2012 at 1:40 PM.

  3. #3

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    It's about time someone has taken a position on this nonsensical "religious" ritual, the 4skin must be in the spleen category, oh well ya don't need it? so cut it out/off What a crazy excuse to throw a party around the old fire, waving hand crafted spears etc. and hey we'll do it in honour of that idol we made yesterday afterall, sacrifice is sacrifice. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Plus, uncut guys are a hell of a lot cleaner and most definitely more sensative, sensual. But that's all in another thread. Just my 5 Deutsch Marks worth!!!
    MarS,
    Official Assistant Thread Killer

  4. #4

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by jimdawg View Post

    Also, I would add, it means the primacy of people of White, Christian heritage for being civilized over...well, Muslims, Jews, and Americans: 30% of the world's circumcised and being told they're barbaric certainly won't enlighten them.
    It doesn't mean any of the things u say.. what it means is that babies and children will no longer be circumcised without the opportunity of consenting for themselves when they are old enough so to do and can weigh it up after having been given the information for them to make up their own minds.. not the minds of anyone else...

    Abortion is not a like issue since where abortion is available, women who are pregnant can already do that.
    Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you.

  5. #5

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Without getting deeper into a pissing match, I will only point out that this sort of thing is the reason why tens of millions of people from every country in Europe emigrated to America.

  6. #6

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Will "Obamacare" cover circumcision???????

  7. #7

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Apparently Germany is back to its old tricks of anti semitism, while all of Europe is looking to the good ole days of the dark ages. Well done, you jack booted, goose stepping Nazi's.
    Last edited by jarhead; Jun 26, 2012 at 5:30 PM.

  8. #8

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by jarhead View Post
    Apparently Germany is back to its old tricks of anti semitism, while all of Europe is looking to the gooame in to your homed ole days of the dark ages. Well done, you jack booted, goose stepping Nazi's.
    Hardly Nazi.. it is hardy a Nazi thing to take a decision to prevent the compulsory mutilation of a child when that child is new born or not mature enough to make an informed decision for himself... if a gang of big heavies came into your home right now, grabbed you, slammed you on a big metal tray, strapped or held u down and took a bloody great knife to your willie and whipped of your foreskin (assuming you had one) thus taking away your freedom of choice.. if that happened I suspect you would be more than a little miffed... now that can be argued as being a Nazi-ish kind of thing to do...... there is no ban on circumcision.. only circumcision without the consent of the individual whose body part is to be lopped off....

    No one is preventing Muslims or Jews or anyone else from having circumcisions... only from deciding and insisting that someone else other then themselves do and giving that person no choice in the matter..
    Last edited by darkeyes; Jun 26, 2012 at 5:57 PM.
    Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you.

  9. #9

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by jamieknyc View Post
    Without getting deeper into a pissing match, I will only point out that this sort of thing is the reason why tens of millions of people from every country in Europe emigrated to America.
    Yes, but apparently no one bothered to mention it to the people who live here, for all the "freedom" we have here all the men I have ever seen in America ARE circumcised. Apparently I WAS a piece of property, at least while my parents poured their heart, soul, time and money into raising me. Like any other parents they probably didn't want their son to be "different" from the others, lest it be perceived as a disadvantage. Well that, and there is the hellfire and brimstone peer pressure. Oh well, they did what they thought was best, I'm not going to "hate" them for it.

  10. #10

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by darkeyes View Post
    We have often discussed this issue... but I didn't expect this from Germany.. and if I may say so.. if they can get it to stick... good.

    http://www.rt.com/news/germany-relig...ision-ban-772/
    Why don't you worry about your kids and let other people worry about theirs. Circumcision is not a harmful procedure. Nearly every American male of my generation is circumcised, including me.

  11. #11

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Some medical information regarding this subject:

    http://www.surgery4children.com/inde...ary&Itemid=147

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical...f_circumcision

    It does seem that based on what many medical societies around the world have determined--there really is no medical reason for this procedure to be performed and that doing it---now stems more from traditions and religious dictates of various groups.

    I would say that based on what the doctors now say---if were to have a male child now---I would not have him circumcised.
    "Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere..." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  12. #12

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Exactly, voltman. And such attitudes will I believe prevail.

    Banning circumcision? That's just again telling people they're barbaric. Those who disagree with this must answer the question why its almost only white people protesting who don't have Jewish or Muslim roots. I'm not sure I'd get my children circumcised at all, but when I read about how evil it is, considering I am circumcised myself, it makes me want to do it to say that no, in fact, I'm not a White European Christian. That's not to say I have anything against them. Its just not what I am and I don't want to be forced to act like I am from that culture. It must be understood that this barbaric, unnecessary behavior is a declaration of independence from the Inquisition, that the non-Christian, in particular cultured Arabized soul is not yet dead. Education will end it, not bans.

  13. #13

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    It's disturbing how many people are so willing to turn over to the government the ability to make decisions for us. Things like this are the prerogative of parents. You might disagree with the decisions people make, but that just goes along with living in a free society. Nobody has the right to take away somebody else's freedom just because they disagree with how they exercise it. Fortunately, laws such as this would never be passed in the United States.

  14. #14

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by 12voltman59 View Post
    Some medical information regarding this subject:

    http://www.surgery4children.com/inde...ary&Itemid=147

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical...f_circumcision

    It does seem that based on what many medical societies around the world have determined--there really is no medical reason for this procedure to be performed and that doing it---now stems more from traditions and religious dictates of various groups.

    I would say that based on what the doctors now say---if were to have a male child now---I would not have him circumcised.
    http://www.medicinenet.com/circumcis...cons/page5.htm

    You'll see from this article that there are many benefits from circumcission, not to mention studies that suggest a 60% less chance of HIV/AIDS. For sure, if I were to have another baby boy, which is not going to happen, the child would be circumsized and not just for religous reasons.

  15. #15

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    As can be seen from the responses to this thread, there really is not an easy answer to this topic. There is a fine line, especially in this country, between government interference in parental and religious matters and the concern for the rights of the child. What is mutilation, disfigurement and child abuse to one group of people is a religious rite that reaches the very core of the religion of another group of people. A circumsized penis is a symbol of the covenant between God and his people. Some questions just won't yield to easy answers and the debate about this one will probably go on for a long time. As unsettling as it may sound, some questions have no right answers that will placate everyone. In cultural battles such as this one, wars will be fought, battles will be won and overturned, and on and on . . . Meanwhile people are left to make the decisions for themselves and accept the consequences of those decisions.

  16. #16

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by biguy71 View Post
    It's disturbing how many people are so willing to turn over to the government the ability to make decisions for us. Things like this are the prerogative of parents. You might disagree with the decisions people make, but that just goes along with living in a free society. Nobody has the right to take away somebody else's freedom just because they disagree with how they exercise it. Fortunately, laws such as this would never be passed in the United States.
    Really? Ever hear of Obamacare? lol
    - Falcon -

    Wherever you go ... there you are.
    Be yourself ... Everyone else is taken.

  17. #17

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by jarhead View Post
    http://www.medicinenet.com/circumcis...cons/page5.htm

    You'll see from this article that there are many benefits from circumcission, not to mention studies that suggest a 60% less chance of HIV/AIDS. For sure, if I were to have another baby boy, which is not going to happen, the child would be circumsized and not just for religous reasons.
    The health issues are merely a pretext. This is really about keeping out Moslem immigrants and is another form of what is called 'eco-racism.'

  18. #18

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by jamieknyc View Post
    Without getting deeper into a pissing match, I will only point out that this sort of thing is the reason why tens of millions of people from every country in Europe emigrated to America.
    I totally agree Jamie, those that do not know what the sign means, mean well but truly do not understand.

  19. #19

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by benbidwell View Post
    I totally agree Jamie, those that do not know what the sign means, mean well but truly do not understand.
    Does the sign mean " I have a choice?" or " I'm free to make one?" or ", I gotta get away from this shit" etc has anyone ever researched why this practice began, was it religious, medical or just why not? let's have some fun over the old fire consuming this new magical liquid we're brewing. Quick, get him he's got a real hanger!!
    MarS,
    Official Assistant Thread Killer

  20. #20

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Given the blood-curdling screaming of an infant during a circumcision, I see it a preventing cruelty against children.

  21. #21

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by mariersa View Post
    It's about time someone has taken a position on this nonsensical "religious" ritual, the 4skin must be in the spleen category, oh well ya don't need it? so cut it out/off What a crazy excuse to throw a party around the old fire, waving hand crafted spears etc. and hey we'll do it in honour of that idol we made yesterday afterall, sacrifice is sacrifice. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Plus, uncut guys are a hell of a lot cleaner and most definitely more sensative, sensual. But that's all in another thread. Just my 5 Deutsch Marks worth!!!
    Erm ... Actually the spleen is is needed. Not quite sure of it's exact purpose, thinking it helps regulate internal toxins or some such, but it is needed. You may be thinking about the appendix, which at present does not seem to be needed.

    Further, I don't quite understand why Christian Americans circumcise. What religious benefit is it to them, how? Seems only applicable to Jews and Muslims.
    Last edited by void(); Jun 27, 2012 at 4:58 PM.

  22. #22

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by drugstore cowboy View Post
    Mutilating a boy's genitals does not prevent HIV infection, and it's not nearly as effective as using a condom and having safer sex correctly. If what you claim about HIV were actually true then how come in the United States an entire generation or two of bisexual and gay men who were pretty much all cut at birth died of AIDS or were infected with HIV?
    I was citing the article, if you're not happy with that, go the full measure and emasculate yourself.

  23. #23

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by falcondfw View Post
    Really? Ever hear of Obamacare? lol
    It's not the Democrats who consistently try to tell people which medical precedures they can and can't have. Medical decisions should be between a patient and their doctor. Politicians (i.e. conservative Repblicans) and the insurance companies who finance their campaigns should have no say in the matter. Protecting patients from insurance companies is one of the main goals of what you refer to as Obamacare. I don't agree with everything in Obama's health care package, but at least he is addressing some pretty big issues, unlike the Republicans whose sole reason for existence seems to be maintaining the far less than ideal status quo.
    Last edited by biguy71; Jun 27, 2012 at 7:06 PM.

  24. #24

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by falcondfw View Post
    Really? Ever hear of Obamacare? lol
    My favorite was the roving death squads argument. Oh the horror (!), a panel of people is going to decide whether *I* live or die.. HEY WAIT, isn't that what private insurance companies ALREADY do? They get to decide for millions of people every day who gets care and who doesn't..with pretty much no oversight other than the threat of legal action. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure private industry also had their hand in the cookie jar for the new government healthcare law too, just like with "Medicare prescription drug coverage" - or should I say - "We can't have busloads of people smuggling drugs in from Canada". It's not that I don't think corporations can do a good job running themselves, but I see so many of them focused only on short term profit these days.
    Last edited by elian; Jun 27, 2012 at 7:19 PM.

  25. #25

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by biguy71 View Post
    It's not the Democrats who consistently try to tell people which medical precedures they can and can't have. Medical decisions should be between a patient and their doctor. Politicians (i.e. conservative Repblicans) and the insurance companies who finance their campaigns should have no say in the matter. Protecting patients from insurance companies is one of the main goals of what you refer to as Obamacare. I don't agree with everything in Obama's health care package, but at least he is addressing some pretty big issues, unlike the Republicans whose sole reason for existence seems to be maintaining the far less than ideal status quo.
    I think you need to check your facts on GOP proposals for health care. Try here : http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...61757T20100208

    and here:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_205728.html
    Last edited by falcondfw; Jun 27, 2012 at 7:16 PM.
    - Falcon -

    Wherever you go ... there you are.
    Be yourself ... Everyone else is taken.

  26. #26

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by falcondfw View Post
    I think you need to check your facts on GOP proposals for health care. Try here : http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...61757T20100208

    and here:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_205728.html
    You just used "GOP" and "facts" in the same sentence. That's hilarious!

    I already know all about what the GOP wants. It's to preserve the insurance racket. I call it a racket because the only industry that rips off its customers more is the casino industry. At least casinos are up front about what they do and people get some sort of entertainment value for their money. At least that's what people I know who actually go to those places say.

    In all seriousness, though, I read the actual proposal when it was put forward in 2009, so I don't need to read about it in the Huffington Post three years later. The basis of their proposal was to keep everything privatized and do nothing to prevent insurance companies from denying coverage or dropping their customers as they see fit. That's unacceptable. They just want to preserve the insurance industry as the most lucrative industry in the world for reasons which I have already stated.

    I just spent a lot more energy than I generally like to in a conversation with a Republican, so this conversation is now over.

  27. #27

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by biguy71 View Post
    You just used "GOP" and "facts" in the same sentence. That's hilarious!

    I already know all about what the GOP wants. It's to preserve the insurance racket. I call it a racket because the only industry that rips off its customers more is the casino industry. At least casinos are up front about what they do and people get some sort of entertainment value for their money. At least that's what people I know who actually go to those places say.

    In all seriousness, though, I read the actual proposal when it was put forward in 2009, so I don't need to read about it in the Huffington Post three years later. The basis of their proposal was to keep everything privatized and do nothing to prevent insurance companies from denying coverage or dropping their customers as they see fit. That's unacceptable. They just want to preserve the insurance industry as the most lucrative industry in the world for reasons which I have already stated.

    I just spent a lot more energy than I generally like to in a conversation with a Republican, so this conversation is now over.
    Those with closed minds will never learn anything.
    But if you do want to learn how wrong you are, you will read the two articles I gave links to.
    If you had bothered to read, you would see that one of the proposals by Republicans is to require insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions.
    When we stop learning, we might as well just dig a hole, crawl in, and pull the dirt over ourselves.
    - Falcon -

    Wherever you go ... there you are.
    Be yourself ... Everyone else is taken.

  28. #28

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    For my two cents...... I am circumsized. Was done when I was about 3 days old. I don't remember it. All through school I only saw circumsized penises. It wasn't until one day in High School, that I saw my Dad coming out of the shower, and he was uncut. I guess he saw my stare and I asked him why his thing looked so different then mine. I guess I was cut because it would make me look normal. Well now, thanks internet, I have seen many, many uncircumsized penises, and I like them, and wish I was given the choice do I want to or not. If I have a male child, I will not get him cut. I will show him how to make sure to keep it clean, and then as he gets older, if he says Dad, I want to look like yours then we can do it. I've noticed a lot of younger guys these days are being left intact, which means I still may get one to play with lol.

  29. #29

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    I prefer circumcised but that's just esthetics.

  30. #30

    Re: Religious Circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by æonpax View Post
    I prefer circumcised but that's just esthetics.
    Honestly? i agree.
    - Falcon -

    Wherever you go ... there you are.
    Be yourself ... Everyone else is taken.

 

 

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