Teen lesbian couple found shot in the head in Texas

[æonpax]

Visitors to a public park in Portland, Texas were terrified on Saturday to find two teenage girls who had been shot in the head, according to MSNBC.

Nineteen-year-old Mollie Judith Olgin was found dead on the scene and 18-year-old Mary Christine Chapa was rushed to the hospital. Chapa was in serious but stable condition on Sunday. The two young women had been in a relationship for five months.

Police in Portland have not been able to identify a suspect and do not know if the young couple’s sexuality motivated the crime.“That’s always something that we’re looking for, but as of this point, we have not been able to establish that that had anything to do with the attack,” Portland Police Chief Randy Wright said.

He added that the crime did not appear to be “just a random attack.” - http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/2...head-in-texas/

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There are just not enough facts available right now in order to form an intelligent opinion on this incident. However, I can say that violence against Gays (LGBT) has coincidentally been on the rise since all the anti-gay rhetoric has been spewing from the political right.
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[byronvench]

I'm confused. You state that no details are in . . the report mentions that it's unknown if their sexual preference had anything to do with their murder, yet you're still trying to shoehorn this into the "everybody should hate gays" crap that's been going on.

May I respectfully ask that the actual facts in this incident should be reported before the soapbox comes out? Two young women are dead. Have a little respect before you attempt to use them to support your cause.

[Long Duck Dong]

ok based around what I can find on the net....

large calibre shell casing, witness heard two shots before midnight, police find one shell casing, area is overgrown, no suspects and no weapon, police say there is likelihood of a 3rd party involved....... you have two females in a overgrown area at night, in the dark.........

before I would say LGBT hate crime, I would rule out accidental shooting ( illegal hunting / poaching ) for a start.....

kinda reminds me of the issue at a bar in NZ recently with two lesbians * kicked out * of a bar and how they were discriminated against by the bar and how they were going to the human rights commission etc etc... facebook and a few other sites exploded with nasty remarks about the bar and the doorman and their treatment of the LGBT etc etc.....then the bar manager showed the CCTV footage to a reporter, that proved the lesbians were lying about what happened...... and there was dead silence in the sites.... no apologise to the bar staff or the bar manager from the lesbians.... just dead silence....

how about we wait for the facts in this case before the usual * LGBT hate crime etc * cries start up... and the LGBT end up looking bad yet again......

[darkeyes]

I'm confused. You state that no details are in . . the report mentions that it's unknown if their sexual preference had anything to do with their murder, yet you're still trying to shoehorn this into the "everybody should hate gays" crap that's been going on.

May I respectfully ask that the actual facts in this incident should be reported before the soapbox comes out? Two young women are dead. Have a little respect before you attempt to use them to support your cause.

She reported a murder to us.. she said there were too few facts to make an intelligent opinion... and she said coincidentally there is arise in anti lgbt crime.. that isn't trying to shoe horn anything in to anything..

Violent crime against the lgbt is on the increase here too.. this seems odd at face value, when there is an increase in support, compassion, acceptance and tolerance towards us and violent crime is on a bit of a downward spiral.. but it isn't really... when the intolerant are most under threat they do react more violently and aggressively and my theory is that this is why it occurs.. I don't know about texas except that it isn't incredibly lgbt friendly, but nationally there is a move towards greater acceptance of gay, bi and transgendered people.. whether that has any bearing on an already intolerant state I have no idea but it is part of the union and there is a lot going on nationally both pro and anti lgbt..

..and of course it might just be they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and sexuality has nothing whatsoever to do with it.. I think Joan is bright enough to know that and she has said so in effect.. so the high horse wasn't needed... I suggest you unsaddle and like the rest of us, wait and until there is more info before u have a go at someone for saying what she quite clearly didn't say...

[falcondfw]

She reported a murder to us.. she said there were too few facts to make an intelligent opinion... and she said coincidentally there is arise in anti lgbt crime.. that isn't trying to shoe horn anything in to anything..

Violent crime against the lgbt is on the increase here too.. this seems odd at face value, when there is an increase in support, compassion, acceptance and tolerance towards us and violent crime is on a bit of a downward spiral.. but it isn't really... when the intolerant are most under threat they do react more violently and aggressively and my theory is that this is why it occurs.. I don't know about texas except that it isn't incredibly lgbt friendly, but nationally there is a move towards greater acceptance of gay, bi and transgendered people.. whether that has any bearing on an already intolerant state I have no idea but it is part of the union and there is a lot going on nationally both pro and anti lgbt..

..and of course it might just be they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and sexuality has nothing whatsoever to do with it.. I think Joan is bright enough to know that and she has said so in effect.. so the high horse wasn't needed... I suggest you unsaddle and like the rest of us, wait and until there is more info before u have a go at someone for saying what she quite clearly didn't say...

She didn't say it fran, but she implied it. And with no facts to back it up. I can say the moon is made of green cheese if I want with no facts to back it up.

If people are going to claim LGBT crime is on the rise in an area, back it up. Cities and towns publish police statistics every week in the newspaper and probably on their web sites.

And if you (general you, not you specifically fran) lean a certain way politically, that is great, but have more class than to take a tragedy like this and spin it for your own political agenda (specifically referring to the comment about the rise of the political right comment). I lean to the right politically (ok, I almost bend over to the right), but that does not mean I am going to go out to a park and shoot 2 teenage lesbians.

[darkeyes]

She didn't say it fran, but she implied it. And with no facts to back it up. I can say the moon is made of green cheese if I want with no facts to back it up.

If people are going to claim LGBT crime is on the rise in an area, back it up. Cities and towns publish police statistics every week in the newspaper and probably on their web sites.

And if you (general you, not you specifically fran) lean a certain way politically, that is great, but have more class than to take a tragedy like this and spin it for your own political agenda (specifically referring to the comment about the rise of the political right comment). I lean to the right politically (ok, I almost bend over to the right), but that does not mean I am going to go out to a park and shoot 2 teenage lesbians.

Very touchy today aren't we Falcon? Neither of us spun it to make it what it may not be.. we just don't know enough to say... Joan's comment and my own were perfectly fair observations to make. And if the Texas polis have an ounce of integrity it is an angle they will be looking at too.. just as long as they don't ignore other explanations...

We can disagree on the political point u make that's ok.. but it isn't me that's saying anti lgbt crime is on the increase in the UK..http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...b-2374674.html but are u honestly trying to tell me that the current anti lgbt views, statements and policies of many right wing American politicians particularly those of the religious right has no bearing on hate crime in the US? And in the fight against anti lgbt rhetoric and prejudice, can anyone afford to have class?

[DuckiesDarling]

I've been checking out some of the stories about this and right off the top of my head I can think of different scenarios that have nothing to do with the sexuality of these two people. The major one coming to mind is drugs. It's a tragedy but just trying to sensationalize it as a LGBT tragedy is indeed "cashing in". Every day in this world someone is the victim of a crime, the sexuality of the person does not make the crime any more or less horrific. So I want to wait before I lament the poor lesbian couple and would rather have the facts in the case and know exactly who did the shooting if not why. But I'd be willing to lay odds it will come down to someone being where they shouldn't have been for an act they shouldn't have been engaging in.

[tenni]

When has the radical right not been spewing hatred towards same sex activity and relationships? If anything has not there been positive steps taken politically recently?

When has Texas not been seen as radical extremists with the use of guns to deal with things people do not like? The story falls under "typical" imo.

Very sad.

[æonpax]

1) I'm confused. You state that no details are in . . the report mentions that it's unknown if their sexual preference had anything to do with their murder, yet you're still trying to shoehorn this into the "everybody should hate gays" crap that's been going on.

2) May I respectfully ask that the actual facts in this incident should be reported before the soapbox comes out? Two young women are dead. Have a little respect before you attempt to use them to support your cause.

Reading and comprehension are fundamental my friend.

1) Huh? Yes. You are confused.
2) May I respectfully submit you read the article I linked to before coming to an erroneous conclusion.

Perhaps I should explain the article to you. It did not state it was a crime against gays although the headline alluded to it by mentioning the fact that they were lesbian. Pretty straightforward if you ask me.

I cannot accurately say it was a "hate" crime becuase I don't have anymore facts than what the article stated. However, it is my "opinion" that based on a plethora that such crimes are on the rise and are seemingly juxtaposed to the rise in violence against gays by the right. It is entirely plausible this was a hate crime.

Thanks.

[darkeyes]

I've been checking out some of the stories about this and right off the top of my head I can think of different scenarios that have nothing to do with the sexuality of these two people. The major one coming to mind is drugs. It's a tragedy but just trying to sensationalize it as a LGBT tragedy is indeed "cashing in". Every day in this world someone is the victim of a crime, the sexuality of the person does not make the crime any more or less horrific. So I want to wait before I lament the poor lesbian couple and would rather have the facts in the case and know exactly who did the shooting if not why. But I'd be willing to lay odds it will come down to someone being where they shouldn't have been for an act they shouldn't have been engaging in.

Personally I lament them no matter the circumstances of their death as I do for any human being shorn of life so cruelly,, and who is cashing in? Not me; not Joan... we have both aid the same thing.. lets find out why because we don't yet know.. and if I may be so bold.. we haven't speculated why.. you have, darlin' darin'.. as best I can tell u are dismissing that it will proven be a hate crime... and are prepared to lay odds on it... and that's as bad as claiming it is when no one yet has a clue..

Asking questions is one thing... speculation is quite another..

[DuckiesDarling]

Personally I lament them no matter the circumstances of their death as I do for any human being shorn of life so cruelly,, and who is cashing in? Not me; not Joan... we have both aid the same thing.. lets find out why because we don't yet know.. and if I may be so bold.. we haven't speculated why.. you have, darlin' darin'.. as best I can tell u are dismissing that it will proven be a hate crime... and are prepared to lay odds on it... and that's as bad as claiming it is when no one yet has a clue..

Asking questions is one thing... speculation is quite another..

I happily posted that I speculated, Fran. I didn't try to say something and then say I didn't say it when called on it...

[æonpax]

ok based around what I can find on the net....

large calibre shell casing, witness heard two shots before midnight, police find one shell casing, area is overgrown, no suspects and no weapon, police say there is likelihood of a 3rd party involved....... you have two females in a overgrown area at night, in the dark.........

before I would say LGBT hate crime, I would rule out accidental shooting ( illegal hunting / poaching ) for a start.....

kinda reminds me of the issue at a bar in NZ recently with two lesbians * kicked out * of a bar and how they were discriminated against by the bar and how they were going to the human rights commission etc etc... facebook and a few other sites exploded with nasty remarks about the bar and the doorman and their treatment of the LGBT etc etc.....then the bar manager showed the CCTV footage to a reporter, that proved the lesbians were lying about what happened...... and there was dead silence in the sites.... no apologise to the bar staff or the bar manager from the lesbians.... just dead silence....

how about we wait for the facts in this case before the usual * LGBT hate crime etc * cries start up... and the LGBT end up looking bad yet again......

Ah...up to your old tricks again I see. Please point out where either the article or I stated it was a "hate crime?" Those are YOUR words my friend, NOT mine.

The words "Lesbian Teens" are being used by many media sources reporting this, to wit;

• http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...exas-park?lite
• http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/06...exas-park.html
• http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2012/06/t...tally-wounded/

An educated person might conclude this was a hate crime, just based on the headline. But I said;

There are just not enough facts available right now in order to form an intelligent opinion on this incident.

What does my statement indicate to you? Someone rushing to a conclusion?

Just when I thought it was over........

[æonpax]

She didn't say it fran, but she implied it. And with no facts to back it up. I can say the moon is made of green cheese if I want with no facts to back it up.

If people are going to claim LGBT crime is on the rise in an area, back it up. Cities and towns publish police statistics every week in the newspaper and probably on their web sites.

And if you (general you, not you specifically fran) lean a certain way politically, that is great, but have more class than to take a tragedy like this and spin it for your own political agenda (specifically referring to the comment about the rise of the political right comment). I lean to the right politically (ok, I almost bend over to the right), but that does not mean I am going to go out to a park and shoot 2 teenage lesbians.

Excuse poindexter me but I gave my opinion...see word: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion and unless I miss my guess, this forum is all about voicing opinions.

I will gladly back up my assertion that crime against the LGBT is not only UP but directly related to the religious conservative mindset in politics. But for now, I'm sorry, you'll have to wait.

If opinions get you all excited to a point where I offend your political leanings...I have two choices for you a) tough or b) live with it.

At any rate...we'll see where this case goes when more facts are out.

[Long Duck Dong]

aeon,....... back up a sec or two......

much of the comments on the other sites I read, in order to see if I could find more info, were full of remarks about texas gay bashing, gun toting rednecks and other BS comments..... so I was making the general remark about how we should not assume its a hate crime until proven...

if you want to read into my post, something that I did not say, then try and call me out over it... then I would suggest that working in the media is the right job for you, as the media have a habit of twisting things, only having some of the facts and portraying something incorrectly... and making right asses of themselves when they get it wrong

[æonpax]

Personally I lament them no matter the circumstances of their death as I do for any human being shorn of life so cruelly,, and who is cashing in? Not me; not Joan... we have both aid the same thing.. lets find out why because we don't yet know.. and if I may be so bold.. we haven't speculated why.. you have, darlin' darin'.. as best I can tell u are dismissing that it will proven be a hate crime... and are prepared to lay odds on it... and that's as bad as claiming it is when no one yet has a clue..

Asking questions is one thing... speculation is quite another..

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Fran,

I took this news article from another forum where discussion on it is already heated up...as it should be sometimes. Most people are assuming it's a hate crime, but not me...not yet. I carefully phrased how I posted this, for one of my more esoteric reasons. One of the reasons is painfully obvious, you will note people are accusing me of things I did not say. It follows a very predictable pattern amongst some people here.

[æonpax]

aeon,....... back up a sec or two......

much of the comments on the other sites I read, in order to see if I could find more info, were full of remarks about texas gay bashing, gun toting rednecks and other BS comments..... so I was making the general remark about how we should not assume its a hate crime until proven...

if you want to read into my post, something that I did not say, then try and call me out over it... then I would suggest that working in the media is the right job for you, as the media have a habit of twisting things, only having some of the facts and portraying something incorrectly... and making right asses of themselves when they get it wrong

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I stand....corrected. My apologies.

[darkeyes]

I happily posted that I speculated, Fran. I didn't try to say something and then say I didn't say it when called on it...

Can be that that the old warmonger was right and that indeed we are two peoples separated by a common language? Just to whom do u refer who has denied they said something they did? Not me... not Joan... did she or I imply anything as claimed? Not from where I'm sitting... but maybe American English is even more different from our own humble tongue than I hitherto thought..

[darkeyes]

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Fran,

I took this news article from another forum where discussion on it is already heated up...as it should be sometimes. Most people are assuming it's a hate crime, but not me...not yet. I carefully phrased how I posted this, for one of my more esoteric reasons. One of the reasons is painfully obvious, you will note people are accusing me of things I did not say. It follows a very predictable pattern amongst some people here.

Is life me darlin'.. life...just life as we know it....

[ErosUrge]

Yes, who knows until more information is available. But it seems to me (mere speculation) that it could be one of those insanely jealous situations where one of these women was perhaps once involved with killer in the past and it was his way of settling the matter because of the rejection; sick! And there is a possibility that it might have been a jealous ex-female lover, but rarely is that ever the case. Anyhow, it happened the way it happened and for the reasons it happened and therein is the truth until a thorough investigation is completed (if there is one).
Though I don't know as I've not looked into it, I would not doubt that crimes against LGBT are on the rise since as of late, there is a rise in awareness of same sex couples being allowed to marry and having gained more rights in certain states. In this state there is and has always been a level of intolerance towards same sex interest though for me personally, I have not encountered such moments in recent years. That doesn't mean it isn't so, I'm just saying that fortunately for me it hasn't been the case. And I am pretty much in the open about my sexuality to most people; though not all.
I would hope that we would be more communicative and open to possibilities and not engaging in attacking one another. This is a very tragic matter and hopefully the truth of it will be revealed. In my opinion, it is definitely related to the sexuality of the two but maybe more accurately an insane jealousy which knows no gender or orientation....

[falcondfw]

Tenni,
Just because people speak out against LGBT stuff does not mean they are going to pick up a shotgun and take out two lesbians. Are there nutballs that will? yes. Just like there are nutballs that go around to Occupy Wall Street protests raping girls. There are nutballs on both sides and to paint everyone on one side or the other with the nutball brush is disingenuous and political spin.

And Tenni, if you believe what you said in your last sentence - "When has Texas not been seen as radical extremists with the use of guns to deal with things people do not like? The story falls under "typical" imo.". Then you need to get out of the movie theater and start thinking with your brain instead of your eyes. That is one of the most pathetically bigoted, politically charged statements I have heard in a long time.

Joan and Fran,
Touchy, no. She made the inference, not me. This is the kind of BS on both sides of the political debate that serves no one. It is all political spin and it is not right. 1. because two young women are dead and noone, except the shooter, knows the real reason 2. because, as I said above, only a few fringe nutballs on either side of the political spectrum would use their political or religious beliefs to justify a crime.

And if people acted with class, on both sides, we wouldn't have the hate speech and spin from either side.

Fran, "Asking questions is one thing... speculation is quite another..". You are correct fran. And Joan is speculating by inferring it is an LGBT hate crime.

Joan, "What does my statement indicate to you?". Well, this statement " I can say that violence against Gays (LGBT) has coincidentally been on the rise since all the anti-gay rhetoric has been spewing from the political right." in combination with the article indicates you think it is an LGBT hate crime committed by some "right-wing" nutballs.

And Joan, the name calling is not necessary, is beneath you, and only serves to weaken your argument. I debated the ideas and positions you stated. I did not insult you or your intelligence. If you can't state and back up your points without name calling ... See posting rule #2, if in doubt.

[byronvench]

"I cannot accurately say it was a "hate" crime becuase I don't have anymore facts than what the article stated. However, it is my "opinion" that based on a plethora that such crimes are on the rise and are seemingly juxtaposed to the rise in violence against gays by the right. It is entirely plausible this was a hate crime."

In other words, you've made up your mind that this is the case, based on absolutely nothing. I think that's called "making it up."

You activists . . you just love corpses. They can't refute anything you decide to make them say since they're no longer human beings . . they're just ammunition for your agenda.

Classy . .

[darkeyes]

I begin to wonder why we have language.. so few seem to be able to comprehend it...

[tenni]

It may be from your perspective bigotted Falcon
That is your states reputation in Canada and the opinion of a Canadian friend of mine who moved to Texas. Our societies are quite different. Same sex marriage has been legal in Canada for seven years. We have no abortion laws. We have strict gun laws. We just have different values than your state. So what happened is very sad but not unexpected.

[elian]

So let me speculate too that a teenage boy may have been in love with one of them and jealous - perhaps he shot them in a hormonal fit? Not exactly a hate crime, it's murder, or assault, but jealousy happens all of the time. I guess we'll have to keep an eye on the story to see when they uncover more facts.. It's a hard lesson to learn.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oSJdSL8YOE I mean, I feel a little foolish now, marching for Trayvon Martin after more evidence appeared - but I just wanted for all people to have a voice..it was great to think of the majority class squirming in their seats at home watching on TV as a group of people from a section of town most people would probably forget march down the hill to the courthouse and demand "justice". I already knew before the march it was a matter of two very similar people meeting each other in real space - they both had the same attitude problem and they both met their match..kind of a sad situation for everyone involved..it didn't HAVE to be that way - but that is the way it turned out.

[The Black Knights]

So let me speculate too that a teenage boy may have been in love with one of them and jealous - perhaps he shot them in a hormonal fit? Not exactly a hate crime, it's murder, or assault, but jealousy happens all of the time. I guess we'll have to keep an eye on the story to see when they uncover more facts.. It's a hard lesson to learn.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oSJdSL8YOE

You make a good point. We need to wait for the investigation into this tragedy is done. I would not be surprised if this was a hate crime, but I also would not be surprised if it is proven to be a case of wrong place, wrong time. This could have been a Black (or Asian or White) male/female couple, or two men or a entire family unit that was attacked and/or killed here. We, the public, needs to realize that the media's job is to report stories. They are NOT above sensationalism to be the lead news organization on a story, especially at the national level. Who these ladies are is why this is a national story, without all the facts. Same with the Trayvon Martin case, different spin, same result. Everyone calm down. Wait for the truth to come out....eventually.

[byronvench]

Plus the fact that, no matter what happened, it's nobody's business but theirs and their respective families . . .

[elian]

It occurs to me that rather than debate, the most important thing is to feel compassion for the loss.

[Annika L]

Plus the fact that, no matter what happened, it's nobody's business but theirs and their respective families . . .

Seriously? Two people dead, and it's nobody else's business but theirs and their families? Criminy, what do we pay police detectives for, I wonder? I mean, there's a killer on the streets (unless it was an extremely clever double suicide), but hey, it's not really anyone else's business, right?

In general, just to throw my two cents in as a reader of the thread (and I'm sure I'll be seen simply jumping in on the activist side, or maybe the women's side if there is one in this case), but all I saw was Joan *entertaining the possibility* that this could be a hate crime, given the circumstantial evidence...not inferring that it actually was, or claiming it was and then denying the claim.

Such rancor in this thread, sheesh. Feels a lot more to me like highschool pettiness than a discussion of anything; more to do with who dislikes whom than with who said what.

I eagerly await being told what I just said.

[falcondfw]

It may be from your perspective bigotted Falcon
That is your states reputation in Canada and the opinion of a Canadian friend of mine who moved to Texas. Our societies are quite different. Same sex marriage has been legal in Canada for seven years. We have no abortion laws. We have strict gun laws. We just have different values than your state. So what happened is very sad but not unexpected.

Tenni,
You are about the rudest SOB on this site and i am tired of your BS.
I don't make assumptions enough to paint a whole society based on what I see in the movies and based on what one idiot friend says.
I prefer to do my research based on facts and make up my own mind. Obviously, this is too difficult a concept for your frozen brain to handle or maybe you just don't have a mind to think with on your own or maybe it is living in the socialist paradise of Canada. Prepare to be assimilated!
I also have friends from Canada down here who love it. As a matter of fact, I worked with one of them for over 10 years in 4 different companies that had us travel from Florida to Colorado to here. So screw what your friend says.
I've been nice up til now, but I don't play doormat to anyone.
If you don't like me or my opinions f off. I try to only debate the topic and not attack the person, but when personally attacked ,,, the gloves come off.

[Long Duck Dong]

Annika.... its difficult in a way, cos I do not see what happened as any more tragic cos of the sexuality / gender of the victims nor what happened, any more heinous because of sexuality / gender..... but I view it from the point of view as a parent.... would a possible crime against one child be more heinous than the same crime against another if one was LGBT and the other was not....

if it was one of the site members, how many of us would focus on the nature of the crime and reduce it to a possible hate crime against the LGBT and how many of us would mourn the loss of a loved one, a friend, a part of the family and pray for justice to be served, not cos the lost one was LGBT, but cos we lost somebody we cared so much about......

my heart goes out to the family and I do hope that the surviving teen is able to recover and provide answers....but I have the gut feeling that the sexuality aspect will continued to be pushed cos it makes better news and provokes more of a reaction from people, than the fact that one teen is dead and another is fighting to survive.....