For those wondeing what biphobia is and what it looks like

[darkeyes]

You can and should stand up to correct perceptions, tenni, but to make real progress, we need some kind of organised political pressure group..that's what the lgbt is, even if it is very loose.. there are those who think it should have a strong directional centre, but this would stifle so much of what we are about by making it far too rigid and inflexible.. and those who for instance think that the b in lgbt should leave and make their own way... I understand the reasoning behind this even if I disagree with it because I'm of the opinion we have far too much in common to dismantle a loose political alliance which has served us well for so many decades.. that each part should listen to the other more I think is a lesson to be learned and eaach part should be more proactive in assisting the others in their aspirations, such as the lg part of the lgbt, being more proactive in dealing with the question of bierasure and invisibilty and biphobia.. and both being much more responsive to the smallest part of the alliance.. the t part...

..and btw.. where I come from babes, Tablet is a confectionery.. it is a luffly, very tasty sweetie (proper name Butter Tablet.. to some (nobs), Swiss Tablet).. it tastes a bit like fudge but is harder and infinitely more deeeelishus!!!!! Both me mum and Kate are expert producers of the stuff, an' even mine is not bad eitha... and we all luff it... bad for arse size but rationing limits the damage.. however difficult it is to resist.. if u like I will have wee wordie with both and they will do u a few tablet bars for next time u come over here... give it a power source and wireless and it will be at least as good and efficient as that tablet u tell us u are using!!!*laffs* And the Choccie Tablet is bloody good an all... Or ya can do ya own.. plenty recipes on the net!!! Think about it.. a new tablet everyday and ya can munch it wenyas finished...

[ExSailor]

It’s an insult to the bisexual community...

1. Actually what's insulting to bisexuals, the bisexual community, the LGBT community, and to most people on this site is how you have your own agendas against bisexual men, spread biphobia/pozphobia, spread completely wrong information about bisexual men and HIV, and claim that if you have sex with hetero men and not bisexual men you can't possibly get infected with HIV or an STD since hetero men are "clean" or "DDF" while those nasty bisexual men are just Petri dishes of HIV and STDs that we want to spread to others. 2.You're neither intellectual, balanced, and you do not want to learn.

[darkeyes]

1. Actually what's insulting to bisexuals, the bisexual community, the LGBT community, and to most people on this site is how you have your own agendas against bisexual men, spread biphobia/pozphobia, spread completely wrong information about bisexual men and HIV, and claim that if you have sex with hetero men and not bisexual men you can't possibly get infected with HIV or an STD since hetero men are "clean" or "DDF" while those nasty bisexual men are just Petri dishes of HIV and STDs that we want to spread to others. 2.You're neither intellectual, balanced, and you do not want to learn.

Click...click....click...click...click..click...cl ick...click....

[pepperjack]

1. Actually what's insulting to bisexuals, the bisexual community, the LGBT community, and to most people on this site is how you have your own agendas against bisexual men, spread biphobia/pozphobia, spread completely wrong information about bisexual men and HIV, and claim that if you have sex with hetero men and not bisexual men you can't possibly get infected with HIV or an STD since hetero men are "clean" or "DDF" while those nasty bisexual men are just Petri dishes of HIV and STDs that we want to spread to others. 2.You're neither intellectual, balanced, and you do not want to learn.

" Most people on this site?" What's insulting to me is when someone arrogantly presumes to speak on my behalf.

[pepperjack]

It's a difficult thing, Pepper, this job of living.. we all like it simply to tootle along with no stress.. life isn't so easy and straightforward.. when we see what we perceive is injustice, or anything else which we believe is wrong, or hear the words of those who offend against what we see as common decency.. we can sit and stay quiet, or we can try and make them see the error of their ways.. we defend what we believe or we do not... and sometimes by doing so we shall create hostility against us and often feel hostility in return... it is almost inevitable.. it is something I recognise and accept and however unintententionally I accept that there will be times when my words will do just that.. just as occasionally, I will feel it necessary to be a little more barbed and will do so not accidentally... so I accept much of the implied criticism you make, but we debate or we do not.. we speak out or we stay silent and allow the opposing view to prevail unchallenged.. why else does this forum exist??? But I never speak out of hate for another.. I may hate what that other says or believes, but not the person him or herself... hostility to an idea is one thing.,, hostility to the person because that person holds a particular set of ideals, or is something I am not is quite another matter... it is that kind of hostility and intolerance that in common with society as a whole, in the United States and the UK and elsewhere, this site has a real and deepening problem...

I'm no stranger to hard living Dark and I certainly don't have the Pollyannaish mindset you referred to. And I have experienced the sometimes unfairness of life very deeply.It just appears to me that, for some, labeling someone as a ' hater ' has become too quick & habitual, like playing the race card, a smokescreen which invariably dissipates & loses its effectiveness. Becoming occasionally abrasive and angrily rebuking someone is not evidence of hatred. And as far as "implied', I got the impression the newcomers ( infiltrators? ) were being blamed for the site's perceived deterioration and contamination with "hate." Personally, I think the current site is an improved one. People are inherently resistant to change, even if it's for the better. Being a pacifist, I can understand your problem with hostility. But that is also inherent in human nature. I like to think of myself as a ' peaceful warrior .' I think we've gone down this road before. Maybe this is relevant, maybe not....I stumbled upon a very simple yet profound quote by one of our great leaders, Abraham Lincoln...." Whatever you are, be a good one."

[void()]

I was waiting for someone to bring up the "Rules" here, or lack thereof. First off, since I've never seen you bring this up to other offenders (I am just one) your purpose of addressing just me is suspect. Common sense dictates we should treat all with courtesy and respect. However it applies to everyone.

This is what I think the original poster was making an effort to express. I may be incorrect. If so my humble apologies for misinterpreting what found itself in that post.

I stand corrected.

3. I think the original poster was using the statement of some, whom say bisexuals will be granted rights alongside homosexuals, as an example of hate and clearly knows that statement is false. They were not making the statement themselves, rather pointing to it as a matter of reference. Again, If I've misread, apologies.

3 - Consider the fact that Florida has starting purging voters based on the unproven assumption of voter fraud. Now even if a million people say it, it must be proven, which has not been done.

So too with the problem of biphobia. It exists but to what extent? Where are it's victims? Who are the victims? I acknowledge biphobia exists but no one has produced one iota of evidence as to its degree or permeation.

I did not see that the original poster was distorting anything. I believe they posted an expression which points out hate has gained purchase on this site. It is a site organized and maintained for people to express diverse views, become a community from what the mainstream deem dregs of society. More importantly, this site was founded I believe in order to grant us, homosexual, lesbian, heterosexual, transgender, all a safe harbor from the gale of hate. Nonetheless, hate seems to have set upon us here.

What hate? Can you show me examples? I don't see hate here. I see occasional bias, intolerance and stupidity but not this hate you talk about. Lets not wallow in hyperbole here.

Wise words, let's see to it that everyone follows them.

I wish to point out that yes, prior to the site having changed format and possibly even servers, I did point out the rules to others on a few occasions. Please do not require me to grant specific dates or users whom received such interaction. Memory is quickly becoming an insipid bitch in regards to me.

Not sure Drew could provide such details either. If he has back ups, using grep would be a simple matter. However, me saying it would be simple and it being are subjective. I'm not versed enough in regex to use grep thoroughly myself. There are some whom visit here that are, Drew could ask a favor. My point being however, it is subjectively difficult to grant specifics. But I do recall pointing the rules out to others a few times.

It is not just you, and my post though framed upon yours was not intended as an attack of it, or you. I only desired to perhaps elucidate and articulate a point that the original poster posited several examples of hate. Your post supplied adequate framing basis whilst also seeming to require some response. In some regards your writing in such fashion is admirable. It is not an easy task to state a declarative as an interrogative. You seem apt to doing that well.

What the original poster presented as evidence of bi-phobia, is the same evidence I supply as hate. Fear often leads directly to hate. If you fear what is different, you may seek understanding it, or as is more readily the case, you destroy it. This fits nicely into your blog discussion of biases. It is only instinct to fear the different or unknown. Human beings are animals and grossly objects of animal instincts, such as fear. Fear creates biases in order to ensure survival, or avoiding the lose of something. In this case I think it is a lose of control.

Understand, prior to the internet bisexuality was far more invisible than written about already. With the advent of the internet, research, communication prospered. Bisexuality keeps gaining more awareness, being something which is discussed, pandered to/for/by the celebrities and media. And to think it took only a few good folks typing simple words to forge a new world. This new world is where Drew's site exists. It is a world that says yes bisexuality has been with us for aeons, no, bisexuality is not homosexuality or transgender. But, bisexuality accepts these, bisexuality even accepts heterosexuals.

Frankly, in what I see, there is a war between love and hate. Rather be a lover myself.

And I have rattled far too much here. Love accepts, hate destroys. Hopefully, we can all come to peace soon.

[Gearbox]

`
I was merely pointing out the physical presence of bisexuals at the fest, which by the way has bearing on bisexual awareness or don't you know?

If the problem is bisexual invisibility, pray tell, how do we make ourselves felt except in physical numbers?

I'm just guessing WHY bi's have less interest in these events than homosexuals. It's not zero, but notably less though, and there must be a reason for it.

Well I know a great way how to make us feel felt. Besides that, I don't believe bisexuality is invisible to start with. It's ignored, denied, suppressed and very discrete. But not invisible. Not to those of which it matters.
We could come out in numbers and flood the streets to show those who don't give a toss about it. But, I get the impression that that isn't something most bi's are inclined to do.
I'd hazard a guess that bisexuality is viewed by bisexuals as a personal freedom, not an identity under threat of heterosexuality.
Guessing btw!

[void()]

1. Anyway, I came to the outsider's defense by chiming in " He walked into a hostile environment." People can become infected by the ambiance of an environment and find themselves contributing to it, either inadvertently or deliberately.
&
2. It just appears to me that, for some, labeling someone as a ' hater ' has become too quick & habitual, like playing the race card, a smokescreen which invariably dissipates & loses its effectiveness. Becoming occasionally abrasive and angrily rebuking someone is not evidence of hatred. And as far as "implied', I got the impression the newcomers ( infiltrators? ) were being blamed for the site's perceived deterioration and contamination with "hate."

1. Void falls off his chair with a resounding thud. "Holy Bloody Saints! Pepper just might get it after all!"
Seriously, I am impressed albeit not wholly surprised. Figured you capable of seeing this, now, you've proven that out. I will remember it well even despite tricky memory at times. And yes, I'll hold you to it. Apologies if a high opinion of a friend offends you.

2. On my own behalf, not too concerned with newcomers. Welcome to them and glad for them visiting. There are a still it seems, long time site haunts whom are indeed not nice folks. Many have tried in various ways to be inclusive of them. Many have met failure because the inclusiveness was not reciprocated. Like to think some here are intelligent enough to see hate as hate.

I understand your point/s though in that it seems a passe 'card' to play. Will not disagree nor agree but it is noted, respected. We may even elect you as point. I'll pass over the hater labeling stickers to you in the next grand symposium meeting next month.

[tenni]

Aeon

I am wondering if you have read the San Francisco Human Rights Commission report on Bi Invisibility? If not, you may benefit from reading it. Google it and it is available as a PDF. This thread is about biphobia but this report makes me suspicious of GLBT organizations. Some posters mentioned that where they lived things were better for bisexuals in the GLBT. I personally am asupporter of bisexuals being more independent but acknowledge our weakness to unite. We do not seem tohave a strong enough cause or belief structure.

[pepperjack]

1. Void falls off his chair with a resounding thud. "Holy Bloody Saints! Pepper just might get it after all!"
Seriously, I am impressed albeit not wholly surprised. Figured you capable of seeing this, now, you've proven that out. I will remember it well even despite tricky memory at times. And yes, I'll hold you to it. Apologies if a high opinion of a friend offends you.

2. On my own behalf, not too concerned with newcomers. Welcome to them and glad for them visiting. There are a still it seems, long time site haunts whom are indeed not nice folks. Many have tried in various ways to be inclusive of them. Many have met failure because the inclusiveness was not reciprocated. Like to think some here are intelligent enough to see hate as hate.

I understand your point/s though in that it seems a passe 'card' to play. Will not disagree nor agree but it is noted, respected. We may even elect you as point. I'll pass over the hater labeling stickers to you in the next grand symposium meeting next month.

Don't quite know what to make of this. Especially puzzling is " Apologies if a high opinion of a friend offends you." What friend are you referring to? And once again, the comment "Pepper just might get it after all," comes across as snide & condescending , trademark qualities of yours. Also, your closing comments hint at sarcasm. So which is it? Are you genuinely trying to get along again or are you baiting me...stupid question,I just realized, you wouldn't admit to it if it were true ( yes,smart people have their moments of stupidity ). I guess only time will tell.

[void()]

Don't quite know what to make of this. Especially puzzling is " Apologies if a high opinion of a friend offends you." What friend are you referring to? And once again, the comment "Pepper just might get it after all," comes across as snide & condescending , trademark qualities of yours. Also, your closing comments hint at sarcasm. So which is it? Are you genuinely trying to get along again or are you baiting me...stupid question,I just realized, you wouldn't admit to it if it were true ( yes,smart people have their moments of stupidity ). I guess only time will tell.

No condescension was meant. I am genuinely impressed you stepped outside the perceptions which conceived themselves on the forum. And yes, I can admit some of the perceptions were bore of inability to see you beyond my own ignorance. You stepped beyond that in the comments here, disproving a lot of negative perceptions I had of you. Thank you for being able to do that, and doing it.

Despite some disagreeing opinions, I would hope we could be friends. Guess that means you would be the friend to which I refer and have a high opinion of. I felt you were capable of revealing this level of understanding some time ago. You saw me misunderstanding you, chose to dump flack on me instead of revealing it. Granted, if I were perhaps in your shoes, I may have done the same. In fact, I know I have been cause of a lot of negativity. Some came from seeing you not able to admit understanding, and if you did and I missed it, then we can both laugh at the cosmos.

Yes my closing was sarcasm meant as friendly levity and jest. Friends do that from what I hear from people with friends. They joke around. I have no such stickers to dole out labeling haters, nor would I likely attend a symposium, monthly or otherwise. I'm trying to state a serious thing in a funny way. Probably no good at it as everything comes out/across wrong, argumentative. But I'm not trying to attack or cause a stir here. I'm genuinely making an effort to embrace merriment, friendship.

[Long Duck Dong]

I'm just guessing WHY bi's have less interest in these events than homosexuals. It's not zero, but notably less though, and there must be a reason for it.

Well I know a great way how to make us feel felt. Besides that, I don't believe bisexuality is invisible to start with. It's ignored, denied, suppressed and very discrete. But not invisible. Not to those of which it matters.
We could come out in numbers and flood the streets to show those who don't give a toss about it. But, I get the impression that that isn't something most bi's are inclined to do.
I'd hazard a guess that bisexuality is viewed by bisexuals as a personal freedom, not an identity under threat of heterosexuality.
Guessing btw!

I do not have the answers to your statements.... but most of the bisexuals that I know in NZ, ( allowing for a difference in culture and country ) don't want to be visible in the media cos they are tired of stereotype images in the media and public eye......

we did have a gay tv program in NZ ( since ended ) that was a gay and lesbian 30 minute / once a week program for the LGBT community...and it did cater for bisexual people in a very positive light, covering aspects like biphobia, bi invisibility, bi discrimination and bisexual relationships ( including multi partner / open relationships ) and something that a few bisexuals on the program referred to as the biggest issue within the bisexual community, BI ignorance.... or discounting the thoughts, feelings and interests of bisexuals that do not fit the *status quo * or pushing a bisexual agenda that is not inclusive of the bisexual community but only some of the bisexual community... and how it would serve to ensure a false image of bisexuality.....

the interesting thing about the bisexual attitude towards bisexuals in the media, is they wanted to be portrayed as committed people in long term relationships with a interest in both genders, but not as people that had a open relationship ( cos that was too slutty / swingerish ) as people that dealt positively with hiv / std ( cos it makes us look like we are diseased ) as positive, contributing members of society and employment ( cos that did not reflect the fact we like both genders ) etc etc...

the other thing that they talked about on the show is how so many bisexuals are not interested in the political / social arena and arguing over who was right or wrong... what mattered to them, was their partner/s, their marriage / relationships, jobs / employment, families..... and how with the introduction of the civil union law in NZ, there was nothing for the bisexual community to fight for.... there have been two other members of NZ in this site, that have also shared my understanding that the bisexual community in NZ is * dying * cos they no longer support their support groups / night clubs etc, with the result of many of them closing and only a few gay oriented clubs and bars remaining open...

I can not help but wonder if a lot of the bisexuals are only interested in sex and sexual activities without none of the social / political interaction, a bit like how some bisexuals only want the sex but none of the talking and emotional stuff...... so I would hazard a quess that you are right about the bisexuality as a personal freedom and not something that is under thread by heterosexuality or laws ( in the US as NZ LGBT are protected and have more rights than most of the US LGBT )

[darkeyes]

I'm no stranger to hard living Dark and I certainly don't have the Pollyannaish mindset you referred to. And I have experienced the sometimes unfairness of life very deeply.It just appears to me that, for some, labeling someone as a ' hater ' has become too quick & habitual, like playing the race card, a smokescreen which invariably dissipates & loses its effectiveness. Becoming occasionally abrasive and angrily rebuking someone is not evidence of hatred. And as far as "implied', I got the impression the newcomers ( infiltrators? ) were being blamed for the site's perceived deterioration and contamination with "hate." Personally, I think the current site is an improved one. People are inherently resistant to change, even if it's for the better. Being a pacifist, I can understand your problem with hostility. But that is also inherent in human nature. I like to think of myself as a ' peaceful warrior .' I think we've gone down this road before. Maybe this is relevant, maybe not....I stumbled upon a very simple yet profound quote by one of our great leaders, Abraham Lincoln...." Whatever you are, be a good one."

I have never read Pollyanna, Pepper... nor have I seen the film or any adaptation of it, save for a few clips over the years on telly.. it isn't that well known here and so not widely read... so I had to look up what u meant.. I am naturally an optimistic person, and always prefer to think the best of people, but this is difficult sometimes.

Structurally and presentationally the site is better than it was.. and in technology and facility.. it isn't much in understanding.. the current malaise of which I lament did not begin with recent newcomers, but long before they/it/he/she began kicking off, but that malaise has been increasingly been shown to breed less understanding and compassion for others as people in forums.. this began to be reflected in chat also, although how true this remains, I am unable to say... angrily rebuking others is not a sign if hate I agree, but complete contempt for, misrepresenting deliberately the views of, personally and aggressively attacking with considerable venom and hunting down to humiliate others is hardly a sign of love... this has increasingly been a feature of forums.. it is not all, or even most members by a long way, but a few who care not one jot for the feelings or opinions of others except to spew bile.. repeatedly what appear to be the same person/people are banned and return in new guises, appear to have multi accounts and continue to say the same thing.. it becomes wearing, and it is detrimental to any kind of proper discussion and debate..

I am no angel in debate Pepper, and am incredibly gobby, but I do try to be fair as far as I am able.. and I don't stalk.. I do get angry and I do rebuke, and sometimes deserve rebuke myself.. but I don't hate people in the least.. just the ideas they hold and what they say.. I'm sorry to disagree with you, but there are those on site who, for purposes of their own, and few in number, yet extremely vocal, do spout hate for others...I know the difference between being angry and handing out rebuke, and spewing hysterical bile. However flawed I am and for all my mistakes, I do try, however pathetically, to be what ole Abe wanted us to be... it's a pity not all can follow his advice...

[pepperjack]

I have never read Pollyanna, Pepper... nor have I seen the film or any adaptation of it, save for a few clips over the years on telly.. it isn't that well known here and so not widely read... so I had to look up what u meant.. I am naturally an optimistic person, and always prefer to think the best of people, but this is difficult sometimes.

Structurally and presentationally the site is better than it was.. and in technology and facility.. it isn't much in understanding.. the current malaise of which I lament did not begin with recent newcomers, but long before they/it/he/she began kicking off, but that malaise has been increasingly been shown to breed less understanding and compassion for others as people in forums.. this began to be reflected in chat also, although how true this remains, I am unable to say... angrily rebuking others is not a sign if hate I agree, but complete contempt for, misrepresenting deliberately the views of, personally and aggressively attacking with considerable venom and hunting down to humiliate others is hardly a sign of love... this has increasingly been a feature of forums.. it is not all, or even most members by a long way, but a few who care not one jot for the feelings or opinions of others except to spew bile.. repeatedly what appear to be the same person/people are banned and return in new guises, appear to have multi accounts and continue to say the same thing.. it becomes wearing, and it is detrimental to any kind of proper discussion and debate..

I am no angel in debate Pepper, and am incredibly gobby, but I do try to be fair as far as I am able.. and I don't stalk.. I do get angry and I do rebuke, and sometimes deserve rebuke myself.. but I don't hate people in the least.. just the ideas they hold and what they say.. I'm sorry to disagree with you, but there are those on site who, for purposes of their own, and few in number, yet extremely vocal, do spout hate for others...I know the difference between being angry and handing out rebuke, and spewing hysterical bile. However flawed I am and for all my mistakes, I do try, however pathetically, to be what ole Abe wanted us to be... it's a pity not all can follow his advice...

You're amusing,Dark. The expression Pollyannaish basically means looking at the world through rose-colored glasses, an unrealistic perspective. It was in response to your comment about people expecting to "tootle" through life without stress. No need to apologize for disagreeing with me. You're right. I know exactly what you're talking about. And I also agree with what Aeon once said, that most of the conflicts here seem to arise out of misinterpreting someone's comments. You're also right about your claims regarding yourself. In following your posts, I have seen a consistent humane intelligence & wisdom about you & I have grown to genuinely like & respect you ( don't misinterpret; I'm not " fancying" you Not long ago, I read an editorial by a local doctor who happens to be an atheist. I found his argument so compelling & thought-provoking, I shared it with a pastor friend of mine. See, I can be objective.

[darkeyes]

You're amusing,Dark. The expression Pollyannaish basically means looking at the world through rose-colored glasses, an unrealistic perspective. It was in response to your comment about people expecting to "tootle" through life without stress. No need to apologize for disagreeing with me. You're right. I know exactly what you're talking about. And I also agree with what Aeon once said, that most of the conflicts here seem to arise out of misinterpreting someone's comments. You're also right about your claims regarding yourself. In following your posts, I have seen a consistent humane intelligence & wisdom about you & I have grown to genuinely like & respect you ( don't misinterpret; I'm not " fancying" you Not long ago, I read an editorial by a local doctor who happens to be an atheist. I found his argument so compelling & thought-provoking, I shared it with a pastor friend of mine. See, I can be objective.

*laffs.. fancying me wouldn't do u much good Pepper... and the thought never entered my head for a second... all we can do pepper is to say out bit, as best we can, and hope people listen... if we convince then fine, we have achieved something... if not we have tried our best and that is what matters.. people will always disagree... that's the nature of our kind.. it stretches us and makes us continue our search for knowledge and to be better.. human beings always have to prove something.. and prove others wrong.. nothing wrong in that at all.. but there is a way to do that and not to... I much prefer to argue as fairly as I am able and as honestly, and to keep the personal out of it if I can... it is nicer to be nice and I find easier than not to be... I just wish some others could feel the same way... the world would be a far more pleasant place if that was so...

[pepperjack]

No condescension was meant. I am genuinely impressed you stepped outside the perceptions which conceived themselves on the forum. And yes, I can admit some of the perceptions were bore of inability to see you beyond my own ignorance. You stepped beyond that in the comments here, disproving a lot of negative perceptions I had of you. Thank you for being able to do that, and doing it.

Despite some disagreeing opinions, I would hope we could be friends. Guess that means you would be the friend to which I refer and have a high opinion of. I felt you were capable of revealing this level of understanding some time ago. You saw me misunderstanding you, chose to dump flack on me instead of revealing it. Granted, if I were perhaps in your shoes, I may have done the same. In fact, I know I have been cause of a lot of negativity. Some came from seeing you not able to admit understanding, and if you did and I missed it, then we can both laugh at the cosmos.

Yes my closing was sarcasm meant as friendly levity and jest. Friends do that from what I hear from people with friends. They joke around. I have no such stickers to dole out labeling haters, nor would I likely attend a symposium, monthly or otherwise. I'm trying to state a serious thing in a funny way. Probably no good at it as everything comes out/across wrong, argumentative. But I'm not trying to attack or cause a stir here. I'm genuinely making an effort to embrace merriment, friendship.

I still really don't have a clue what you're referring to that made you change your opinions about me. Sarcasm is one of those difficult-to gauge responses at times, especially in this medium of expression. It can be vicious & attacking or playful, joking. The Bible says, " Blessed are the peacemakers." So be it.

[void()]

I still really don't have a clue what you're referring to that made you change your opinions about me.

Thought I quoted it earlier in thread. Ooops. *LOL*

[darkeyes]

I still really don't have a clue what you're referring to that made you change your opinions about me. Sarcasm is one of those difficult-to gauge responses at times, especially in this medium of expression. It can be vicious & attacking or playful, joking. The Bible says, " Blessed are the peacemakers." So be it.

Mayb Voidie fances the rocks ofya ya daft ole bugger!! *laffs*. Maybe it's just cos ur nice.. wich u are really.. bit of a reactionary ole sod.. but far from irredeemable... Like u too btw if I may return a compliment u gave earlier...

[pepperjack]

Thought I quoted it earlier in thread. Ooops. *LOL*

Ok, I backed up in the thread & I think I found what you meant, but " ...might be getting it after all?" I've got 20 years of hard-living experiences over you, buddy. Can you give me some credit for having attained some insight into people?

[pepperjack]

Mayb Voidie fances the rocks ofya ya daft ole bugger!! *laffs*. Maybe it's just cos ur nice.. wich u are really.. bit of a reactionary ole sod.. but far from irredeemable... Like u too btw if I may return a compliment u gave earlier...

" fances the rocks ofya?" Now I think I need a little help with that expression.

[darkeyes]

Should be fancies... typo... soz.. make ne more sense yet??? Betcha Voidie knows 'zactly wot I wos sayin.. tee hee

[pepperjack]

Should be fancies... typo... soz.. make ne more sense yet??? Betcha Voidie knows 'zactly wot I wos sayin.. tee hee

Irony of ironies...my adversary fancying me & an atheist telling me I'm redeemable.

[darkeyes]

Irony of ironies...my adversary fancying me & an atheist telling me I'm redeemable.

Complicated lot we human beings, hey, Pepper?

[æonpax]

I wish to point out that yes, prior to the site having changed format and possibly even servers, I did point out the rules to others on a few occasions. Please do not require me to grant specific dates or users whom received such interaction. Memory is quickly becoming an insipid bitch in regards to me.
Not sure Drew could provide such details either. If he has back ups, using grep would be a simple matter. However, me saying it would be simple and it being are subjective. I'm not versed enough in regex to use grep thoroughly myself. There are some whom visit here that are, Drew could ask a favor. My point being however, it is subjectively difficult to grant specifics. But I do recall pointing the rules out to others a few times.
It is not just you, and my post though framed upon yours was not intended as an attack of it, or you. I only desired to perhaps elucidate and articulate a point that the original poster posited several examples of hate. Your post supplied adequate framing basis whilst also seeming to require some response. In some regards your writing in such fashion is admirable. It is not an easy task to state a declarative as an interrogative. You seem apt to doing that well.
What the original poster presented as evidence of bi-phobia, is the same evidence I supply as hate. Fear often leads directly to hate. If you fear what is different, you may seek understanding it, or as is more readily the case, you destroy it. This fits nicely into your blog discussion of biases. It is only instinct to fear the different or unknown. Human beings are animals and grossly objects of animal instincts, such as fear. Fear creates biases in order to ensure survival, or avoiding the lose of something. In this case I think it is a lose of control.
Understand, prior to the internet bisexuality was far more invisible than written about already. With the advent of the internet, research, communication prospered. Bisexuality keeps gaining more awareness, being something which is discussed, pandered to/for/by the celebrities and media. And to think it took only a few good folks typing simple words to forge a new world. This new world is where Drew's site exists. It is a world that says yes bisexuality has been with us for aeons, no, bisexuality is not homosexuality or transgender. But, bisexuality accepts these, bisexuality even accepts heterosexuals.
Frankly, in what I see, there is a war between love and hate. Rather be a lover myself.
And I have rattled far too much here. Love accepts, hate destroys. Hopefully, we can all come to peace soon.

`
It depends on how you define “hate.” I’ve had my daughters say they hate me because for various reasons (like; “no you can’t go out tonight”) I’ve also seen many examples of something mistaken for hate that is no more than frustration, misunderstanding or momentary anger. Then there are these “hate” crimes which from the start, are misnomers because it assumes hate is the over-riding factor when other possible motivations including the pathologically dysfunctional or emotional obsession, may be to blame. Certain actions can be seen as “hateful” but only euphemistically.

All I’m saying is that my definition of “hate” allows for the benefit of the doubt and I just do not see any “all-consuming” hate here. I try to exercise some discretion in what is fast becoming, a victim oriented society.

[darkeyes]

`
It depends on how you define “hate.” I’ve had my daughters say they hate me because for various reasons (like; “no you can’t go out tonight”) I’ve also seen many examples of something mistaken for hate that is no more than frustration, misunderstanding or momentary anger. Then there are these “hate” crimes which from the start, are misnomers because it assumes hate is the over-riding factor when other possible motivations including the pathologically dysfunctional or emotional obsession, may be to blame. Certain actions can be seen as “hateful” but only euphemistically.

All I’m saying is that my definition of “hate” allows for the benefit of the doubt and I just do not see any “all-consuming” hate here. I try to exercise some discretion in what is fast becoming, a victim oriented society.

It is not so much the hate.. there are few members who really hate, but they exist, and their bile tells me so and occasionally, thankfully quite rarely, someone will post what is certainly and expression of "all consuming" hate..... it is the anger, contempt, bad manners, deliberate misrepresentation which some will insist on deploying.. attempts to ridicule and discredit the person, not the opinions held..and what seems to be the continued use of multi ID's by a very few to prove, not their point, but that they are not alone their view as if such stupidity does convince.. some will say anything to try and win an argument, and often in an attempt to humiliate another...the site has had trolls for a number of years, and there have been many discussions about the problem of trollism.. but the problem persists and we no longer discuss them as trolls, but that is what they are and they still abound... the atmosphere on site has degenerated and it is much less fun and certainly much less fair than once, debate is all too often poisoned by all of these failings I mention, and there is less respect for the opposing opinions than in what seems now the dim and distant past..

Like you, Joan, my way is to allow for the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes we allow that to go too far... I do not suffer from a "victim" mentality which is why I argue in the manner I do.. that there is unfairness in our societies is unquestioned and there is unfairness towards all groups of people, but we will not cure those unfairnesses by treating and arguing with others in a way which does nothing but create a bitter and poisoned atmosphere...

[Gearbox]

the interesting thing about the bisexual attitude towards bisexuals in the media, is they wanted to be portrayed as committed people in long term relationships with a interest in both genders, but not as people that had a open relationship ( cos that was too slutty / swingerish ) as people that dealt positively with hiv / std ( cos it makes us look like we are diseased ) as positive, contributing members of society and employment ( cos that did not reflect the fact we like both genders ) etc etc...

Any sexuality would have a cheek to claim that image for all. We all know it's BS.lol
It would be nice if we all just admitted to being Human, and not pretend that we conform to 'norms' to please others. It doesn't work for hetero's and it won't work for bi's & gays either. Not unless the 'norm' is your personal 'norm'.
There are no Slut Parades, or Open Relationship Parades. For the same reason as few Bi Parades IMO. We don't need permission or an crispy clean image.lol

[æonpax]

It is not so much the hate.. there are few members who really hate, but they exist, and their bile tells me so and occasionally, thankfully quite rarely, someone will post what is certainly and expression of "all consuming" hate..... it is the anger, contempt, bad manners, deliberate misrepresentation which some will insist on deploying.. attempts to ridicule and discredit the person, not the opinions held..and what seems to be the continued use of multi ID's by a very few to prove, not their point, but that they are not alone their view as if such stupidity does convince.. some will say anything to try and win an argument, and often in an attempt to humiliate another...the site has had trolls for a number of years, and there have been many discussions about the problem of trollism.. but the problem persists and we no longer discuss them as trolls, but that is what they are and they still abound... the atmosphere on site has degenerated and it is much less fun and certainly much less fair than once, debate is all too often poisoned by all of these failings I mention, and there is less respect for the opposing opinions than in what seems now the dim and distant past..

Like you, Joan, my way is to allow for the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes we allow that to go too far... I do not suffer from a "victim" mentality which is why I argue in the manner I do.. that there is unfairness in our societies is unquestioned and there is unfairness towards all groups of people, but we will not cure those unfairnesses by treating and arguing with others in a way which does nothing but create a bitter and poisoned atmosphere...

`
I have no doubt hate exists here as it exists everywhere. I’m just not looking for it. Online, due to being anonymous, people feel free to engage in conduct that they might not otherwise do in public. That’s the main problem.

I’ve always been big on discussing, on and off line. Back when I came online, late 90’s, I was in high school and as naive as hell about the web. My first real active participation in online discourse was in the “Newsgroups” or “USENET.” 95% of the “rooms” or “groups” there have no rules, mods or owners. Not for the faint of heart, weenies, wimps, self-victims and whiners. It was a double whammy for me, a young female. No one to complain too. Rather than run, I learned how to take insults and dish them right back. Luckily, it’s not all like that but it still is pretty rough. Hate exists there…unbridled and seething with venom.

I used to be real active on “Shy-Bi”, a female only bisexual site. I saw no hate there but there are so many infernal cliques that are so diametrically polar (most having nothing to do with sexuality) that meaningful discussion about controversial or even topical subjects is worthless without involving groups snipping at each other. Worse, the mods there had their own clique and that was as annoying as hell. I’ll pass.

Every group, forum and site has it’s share of trolls, malcontents, shills, sock-puppets, astroturfers and sicko’s. I recognize and ignore them…not mechanically but mentally.

At least in the US, girl, civility and common courtesy has been in sharp decline. Political and religious ideology has encouraged rude and offensive behavior. Pundits such as Rush Limbaugh have become very wealthy that way. I take these people in stride and have more pity than anger at them.

Nice thing about the internet as opposed to real life; it has an “Off” switch.

[tenni]

Any sexuality would have a cheek to claim that image for all. We all know it's BS.lol
It would be nice if we all just admitted to being Human, and not pretend that we conform to 'norms' to please others. It doesn't work for hetero's and it won't work for bi's & gays either. Not unless the 'norm' is your personal 'norm'.
There are no Slut Parades, or Open Relationship Parades. For the same reason as few Bi Parades IMO. We don't need permission or an crispy clean image.lol

-
One realty is that bisexuals are not all the same. I agree with gear that norms for bisexuals much like other sexualities do not all fit into what LDD posts. Hopefully, thsoe who do meet his concept of what is agood bisexual or his norm are more open. I do not know if I would join a bi slut parade but I sure ashell would say YES some bisexuals are involved in casual sex ..just like gsys and hetros. Dsmn proud to accept that diversity in how bi people chose to live their life!

[Long Duck Dong]

Any sexuality would have a cheek to claim that image for all. We all know it's BS.lol
It would be nice if we all just admitted to being Human, and not pretend that we conform to 'norms' to please others. It doesn't work for hetero's and it won't work for bi's & gays either. Not unless the 'norm' is your personal 'norm'.
There are no Slut Parades, or Open Relationship Parades. For the same reason as few Bi Parades IMO. We don't need permission or an crispy clean image.lol

lol I agree with you there...lol.... being human is the norm.... and personally, as far as I can concerned, there is no sexuality * norm*.... just a image / list of *criteria * that people can use to define the sexuality of others and what * looks good * or how they expect others to live and think..... but its often what people will use in order to say who * fits the criteria * and who doesn't

I often wonder if a society like there is in the children of the earth books, is actually the way that society should be...... its set in the caveman days, but in the last book, jean auel wrote, there was a couple of gay males ( married ) that were openly accepted as part of the community and indeed one of the gay males was seen as * one who serves the mother * ( a type of healer / priest / wise person )... and all through the books, multiple partners / companionship and the right to marry more than one person, were seen as normal... one marriage was a female with two husbands....

honestly, I think its cos there is so many people in the world and a real loss of the community spirit, that we have ended up with a world that is so full of seperation, division and obsessed with power and control over who can have a opinion, rights and freedom of choice.....

[tenni]

I like that story's scenario LDD.