HIV, Bisexuality and the Gender Conundrum

[æonpax]

While I was aware of my orientation in high school, I never came out with it. Being a single mom at the time, I had infinitely more pressing issues to contend with than to deal with the prejudices of the anti-gay contingent at school. However, due to my aunt who introduced me to the internet (1997), I was able to delve more into my own sexuality online, specifically Gay.com, which had a monitored chat room for female teens. It was there I first came face to face with a lesbian prejudice, if not enmity, for being bisexual.

As time went on, I joined an LGBT group and became very active in politically advancing the rights of all Gays (generic). I also confronted the same bias against being a bisexual female but this time, I also discovered the source of that bias; Lesbian Pride or hubris. But it didn’t end there. There was another creeping problem that surfaced and that was the slow spread of HIV into the Lesbian community.

Lesbians have always thought themselves as being immune to HIV as it was thought to be a male to male transmitted disease. When the first facts came out about Lesbians contracting HIV, many of them started targeting bisexual females as being the cause. I have to admit, even without direct proof, that would be a logical assumption as lesbians don’t have sex with men.

If the spread of HIV into the lesbian community did come from bisexual females, where did they pick it up from? Certainly not gay men, at least directly, which means heterosexual or bisexual males. Herein lays the conundrum. Bias and prejudice many times comes from certain beliefs that are apparently true and in this case, it’s the belief that bisexuals are wanton in their pursuit of sexual self gratification. Men who hide their bisexuality behind a heterosexual marriage, women whom are careless in regards to choosing a partner and both not being honest and using common sense precautions.

I have no problem with sex being done for the sake of pure enjoyment as I am a hedonist and far removed from the archaic and puritanical attitudes and while there is no such thing as absolutes in regards to personal protection, I do take extraordinary care in choosing the partner of my choice. Unfortunately, it does nothing to ally the fears of those whom see bisexuals as a high “at risk” group for being carriers, men especially.

While this statement may be controversial, I find myself justifiably shying away from any bisexual male when it comes to sex. The risks of getting STD/HIV is just too great. The key here is promoting “safe sex” and while even that is not fool proof, it is a start.

[Long Duck Dong]

careful, you will be called bi phobic...


when I was a bartender / doorman in NZ many moons ago, well ok, years ago, there was a issue that did arise concerning a lesbian female that did end up HIV positive, and she was rubbished for * sleeping with the enemy *.... lol well that lady was a friend of no man, and some people swore that there was a picture of her in the dictionary under man hater ( she had very good reason to hate some males in her life so I was not as harsh on her as others were ).....

I knew that she was a drug addict too, and I have very lil doubt in my mind that she contacted HIV from shooting up, as 3 of her drug friends were to later die from Aids..... but I will never forget the way she was rubbished by the lesbian community as a traitor for contracting a * f'in mans disease *

years later, there was a story in the local paper about a guy that had unprotected sex with a number of females, 9 were definately known about, but there were more..... the guy was bisexual.... but when the story broke, the females were quick to say they were the victims in this and the guy was a rotten piece of shit for having unprotected sex with them and indeed a few ladies contracted hiv.........

what amused the fuck outta me, was that it was supposedly all the guys fault that some ladies got into bed with a random total stranger and had unprotected sex with him of their own free will and choice, yet they were the victims and none of it was their fault........ I always thought it took two people to have sex, not one person and a person devoid of any ability to think or use their brain.....

anyways..... having lost my sister to aids cos of a stupid mistake, consensual unprotected sex with a stranger..... I really do not have much sympathy for people that find themselves up shit creek without a paddle and fast drawing near to the waterfall of OMGWTFBBQ....... and a lot of respect for people that make the simple effort to protect themselves and others, at the risk of being labelled as biphobic or something stupid like that.......

I am a jaded old man now,.... tired of all of the accusations, judgements and slander and shit slinging thrown at people cos they make a personal choice regarding their life and health..... and all I can really say, is * you go, gurl *

[darkeyes]

A thoughtful post and one I have much sympathy with.. in my teens and at the beginning of my 20s I waws one took so many risks with my and other's sexual health in pursuit of sexual experience... I could so easily have been one of those bisexual/lesbian women of whom u speak... time and experience changes our perceptions and at the age of 32 while I do not regret the unprotected experiences of those days, every so often I break out into the cold sweat of relief that the worst I ever caught was a dose of Thrush and a pot of live yoghurt cleared that up in no time... the fact that I was tested regularly makes it no better because who knows what we develop in between testing?

I understand your views on bisexual men, but there were bisexual women too, just as you say, who should be treated with caution.. I was one during the 90s. Reading many of the posts in these forums does not change my view on that for while many bisexual men (and women) post thoughtful and considered threads, many do quite the opposite and it is posts by them which stick in the minds of people who are anti bisexual and indeed homosexual, not the properly considered and well reasoned arguments of men and women who are battling to break down prejudice and not simply pursue irresponsible selfish sensual pleasure...

I am not the same girl as when I was in my teens and early 20s.. I see and have seen misery and and experienced loss of people I knew well and cared deeply for.. people who thought as I did and lived much the same life.. people who in some cases, too many cases, are or were not so lucky as me. I was well educated into matters of sexuality and into safer sex and the reasons for it.. my own selfishness in pursuit of my own sexual adventure allied to belief in my own immortality and "it couldn't happen to me" overruled my good sense.. I was lucky... but friends I know and loved are and were not.. and so in raising our children we place much emphasis on them, more in fact, than we ever would on our own personal experience... we tell them that sex is and should be fun and not to be afraid of it.. but we point to those who we know, and who they know and knew, as to the very good reasons why when they begin their own sexual adventure, they approach it responsibly and not as I did... my kismet was kind to my greed and selfishness... but it could so easily have been other...

[æonpax]

careful, you will be called bi phobic...
when I was a bartender / doorman in NZ many moons ago, well ok, years ago, there was a issue that did arise concerning a lesbian female that did end up HIV positive, and she was rubbished for * sleeping with the enemy *.... lol well that lady was a friend of no man, and some people swore that there was a picture of her in the dictionary under man hater ( she had very good reason to hate some males in her life so I was not as harsh on her as others were )..... I knew that she was a drug addict too, and I have very lil doubt in my mind that she contacted HIV from shooting up, as 3 of her drug friends were to later die from Aids..... but I will never forget the way she was rubbished by the lesbian community as a traitor for contracting a * f'in mans disease *years later, there was a story in the local paper about a guy that had unprotected sex with a number of females, 9 were definately known about, but there were more..... the guy was bisexual.... but when the story broke, the females were quick to say they were the victims in this and the guy was a rotten piece of shit for having unprotected sex with them and indeed a few ladies contracted hiv.........what amused the fuck outta me, was that it was supposedly all the guys fault that some ladies got into bed with a random total stranger and had unprotected sex with him of their own free will and choice, yet they were the victims and none of it was their fault........ I always thought it took two people to have sex, not one person and a person devoid of any ability to think or use their brain..... anyways..... having lost my sister to aids cos of a stupid mistake, consensual unprotected sex with a stranger..... I really do not have much sympathy for people that find themselves up shit creek without a paddle and fast drawing near to the waterfall of OMGWTFBBQ....... and a lot of respect for people that make the simple effort to protect themselves and others, at the risk of being labelled as biphobic or something stupid like that.......I am a jaded old man now,.... tired of all of the accusations, judgements and slander and shit slinging thrown at people cos they make a personal choice regarding their life and health..... and all I can really say, is * you go, gurl *

First off, I should say that the transmission of HIV has taken a sharp decline over the years (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/survei...ansmission.htm ) due in large part to awareness programs being promoted within the LGBT community. Gay males have also taken the lead on this, from what I have seen and understand. At issue here is more the “perception” as opposed to the actual facts surrounding HIV/AIDS.

Unfortunately the CDC (Center for Disease Control) as well as other organizations do not make the delineation between Gay/Lesbian and Bisexuals. Even groups like AVERT, clump bisexual women with lesbians (http://www.avert.org/lesbians-safe-sex.htm ) So there is really no clear way of knowing or proving any bisexual complicity or lack thereof.

I also do not like mincing words. A lesbian who has sex with a guy is strictly NOT a lesbian anymore than a heterosexual woman having sex with a female, is strictly NOT heterosexual …Yeah, I know, “heteroflexiblity", but whatever, that word is not understood by an already dumbed down American public that still believes one can get HIV/AIDS by merely shaking hands.

Intravenous drug use, while a factor that cuts across all human barriers, is in the US (by the CDC’s own estimates) predominantly (not exclusively) among African Americans and Latinos.

The “phobia” retort has become so cliché as to become almost meaningless. It is far better to confront misunderstanding and fear with knowledge and facts. As we can expect no help from government and private sources, we Bisexuals, as a community, must do it ourselves and work past our own biases.

[tenni]

Aeronpax
You and all men may want to refrain from having sex with Black women from Baltimore as they are five times more likely to have HIV than other Black women in the USA.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...-awareness-day

You and non black bisexual men may also want to avoid having sex with young black bisexual and gay men.
http://www.thegrio.com/health/hiv-ra...sexual-men.php

In another study, it tells us to possibly avoid having sex with gay and bisexual men in major US cities. Interestingly, it lumps both gay and bisexual men together but reports that 19% of gay men were HIV. It makes no reference to bisexual men specifically.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...68M3H220100923

What evidence do you specifically have that non black bisexual men should be avoided?

All information that I can find does not distinguish bisexual men from gay men just as you point out that biwomen are not distinguished from lesbians. It refers to there being a 44% chance that MSM (men who have sex with men) being HIV. I can not specifically find out what percentage of bisexual men have HIV. This may be bi erasure/bi invisibility on researchers' part. Yes as the fairy drag queen states in her bitter bitchy way that you may be biphobic of bimen on your part as you are not being specific as to what type of bisexual men to be cautious with. You may have reason to be concerned just as all bisexual men may be wiser to be concerned/cautious about having anal sex with other gay and bisexual men than other m2m play.

[DuckiesDarling]

Aeronpax
You and all men should also refrain from having sex with Black women from Baltimore as they are five times more likely to have HIV than other Black women in the USA.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...-awareness-day

You and non black bisexual men may also want to avoid having sex with young black bisexual and gay men.
http://www.thegrio.com/health/hiv-ra...sexual-men.php

In another study, it tells us to possibly avoid having sex with gay and bisexual men in major US cities. Interestingly, it lumps both gay and bisexual men together but reports that 19% of gay men were HIV. It makes no reference to bisexual men specifically.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...68M3H220100923

What evidence do you specifically have that non black bisexual men should be avoided?

All information that I can find does not distinguish bisexual men from gay men just as you point out that biwomen are not distinguished from lesbians. It refers to there being a 44% chance that MSM (men who have sex with men) being HIV. I can not specifically find out what percentage of bisexual men have HIV. This may be bi erasure/bi invisibility on researchers' part. Yes as the fairy drag queen states in her bitter bitchy way that you may be biphobic of bimen on your part as you are not being specific as to what type of bisexual men to be cautious with. You may have reason to be concerned just as all bisexual men may be wiser to be concerned/cautious about having anal sex with other gay and bisexual men than other m2m play.

fairy drag queen in her bitter bitchy way??? Excuse the hell out of me? You know good and well that LDD is a man and to imply otherwise is just a huge violation of Rule 2 and will be reported as such.

[tenni]

DD
If LDD refers to him/herself as" Your fairy drag queen" in his label under his name, he must be ok with the moniker. If it offends you, maybe you should talk to him.

[DuckiesDarling]

That's right HE, Tenni, a male, not a female as you implied and he was being sarcastic, hence the smiley at the end of his comment to Aeon at the beginning of her post. He agrees with her and so do I, she has the right to protect herself no matter what the sexuality of her partners. You are just being rude with what you said and you know it, but it's quoted and you can't change it so now you backpedal. Too late. You don't like what he says then put him on ignore and do not make references to what he says. Do the same with me.

Gender Male
Location Ontario - South (incl. GTA, Golden Horseshoe, Tricities)
Join Date Feb 2009
Posts 2,238
2 Blog Posts

Re: HIV, Bisexuality and the Gender Conundrum

DD
If LDD refers to him/herself as" Your fairy drag queen" in his label under his name, he must be ok with the moniker. If it offends you, maybe you should talk to him.

quoted you here too, you really are batting a 1000 today aren't you, Jim.

[The Bisexual Virgin]

Aeronpax
You and all men may want to refrain from having sex with Black women from Baltimore as they are five times more likely to have HIV than other Black women in the USA.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...-awareness-day

You and non black bisexual men may also want to avoid having sex with young black bisexual and gay men.
http://www.thegrio.com/health/hiv-ra...sexual-men.php

In another study, it tells us to possibly avoid having sex with gay and bisexual men in major US cities. Interestingly, it lumps both gay and bisexual men together but reports that 19% of gay men were HIV. It makes no reference to bisexual men specifically.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...68M3H220100923

What evidence do you specifically have that non black bisexual men should be avoided?

All information that I can find does not distinguish bisexual men from gay men just as you point out that biwomen are not distinguished from lesbians. It refers to there being a 44% chance that MSM (men who have sex with men) being HIV. I can not specifically find out what percentage of bisexual men have HIV. This may be bi erasure/bi invisibility on researchers' part. Yes as the fairy drag queen states in her bitter bitchy way that you may be biphobic of bimen on your part as you are not being specific as to what type of bisexual men to be cautious with. You may have reason to be concerned just as all bisexual men may be wiser to be concerned/cautious about having anal sex with other gay and bisexual men than other m2m play.

Well tenni, if your research link holds any truth, then I am glad I am black woman living in the south. And I am drug free.

[Gearbox]

If the spread of HIV into the lesbian community did come from bisexual females, where did they pick it up from?

Those bi women could have picked it up from lesbians, passed it on to a bi male, then passed it on to the gay community. So we should ALL just BB straight males&females just to be safe.
That's just silly of course! Unprotected sex and infected needles etc and the notion that your 'safe' is to blame for the spread of HIV, not any particular sexuality.

Out of interest, how do you intend to sieve out bisexual men?
You might need (definitely need!lol) one of these gizmo's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVLJcBsD__E

[æonpax]

Tenni,

I was tempted to give you a sarcastically laced reply but that would serve no purpose. However, it does give me an opportunity to explain something.

On my ad/profile I have myself defined as a Mistress (in the old sense of the word) or a handmaiden, which better describes my duties. I’ve been of service to the same man for close to eight years now. He is a married black male…his wife approves and while he is straight, she is bisexual. He is also the owner of a very successful company on which I am an executive officer. I have had two children by him…a daughter, 6, whom I have custody of and a boy, 4, whom he and his wife have. I get compensated very well.

I’ve interacted sexually with a lot of black folk, mainly male but occasionally a female here and there. As Jim (his name, more or less) considers me an expensive investment, he screens all the people I see as part of my duties. I get bi-monthly check-ups for STD/HIV and am clean. While I cannot see another man without his strict approval, I can see other females so long as I use common sense.

Being with blacks all the time and raising a biracial daughter, has given me a unique perspective most are not privy too…like the myriad forms of racism I’ve experienced, even amongst blacks (especially females) who think white women have no business with a black man.

Considering your cavalier mention of black statistics, you are absolutely clueless when it comes to the extent of problems within the black community and equally as ignorant at the attempts that are being made to curb drug abuse and the spread of HIV/STD by blacks, for blacks. I would thank you ahead for not commenting on things you know nothing about.

Sincerely,

Joan

[tenni]

Aeonpax
I do apologize if my post has come across as racist. That is what shows up when you google bisexuals HIV. Again I ask do you have stats to indicate for bisexuals HIV compared to all bisexual men?

There are stats for Whites and Latino (no Asians, sub continent Indian btw) who are gay or bisexual but not for bisexual on their own. Racism in my society is not as overt as your society but it does exist. I would guess that Asians and sub continent Indians are the more visible minorities where I live. I never saw the stats as racist but they are listed in your CDC fact sheet racially broken down but not broken down gay or bisexual male. The CDC does breakdown IDU as well as by sexuality for Blacks but not other races and posted it September, 2011.

The numbers of Black HIV IDU users is a far smaller number than gay and bisexuals(MSM). Ten times more HIV for white gay/bisexual men and also ten times more for Black HIV MSM (gay/bisexual) compared to either Black men or Black women HIV IDU users. So there is concern for having sex with gay/bisexual men. We just don't know if it is bisexual men as the most at risk as there are no stats on bisxual men on their own. As you state gay men are no danger to you. Yet, you don't really know how much of a risk bimen are to you. Stat wise, he is less of a risk than white or black MSM.

Hispanic men (MSM) are also mentioned and the risks are about 40% fewer HIV. You won't know if it is a Hispanic bisexual or a gay Hispanic as the breakdown for gay or bisexual is not mentioned due to Bi Erasure/Bi Invisibility of your government agency. If you were available, you would have to decide whether to gamble with a cute Latino bisexual man or not.

Black HIV heterosexual women outnumber Black HIV heterosexual men. There are about twice as many HIV Black Heterosexual women than Black HIV Hetrosexual men.

Both Black HIV Heterosexual men and women out number HIV IDU Black men and women.

Nearly five times more for Black HIV Heterosexual women compared to Black HIV IDU men. (even a greater difference for Black HIV IDU women)

The other studies stated what I posted.

I'm pleased that although your tone suggests that you find my post racist that you have taken it somewhat seriously. Please do google or research and let us all know what you find.

[slipnslide]

While this statement may be controversial, I find myself justifiably shying away from any bisexual male when it comes to sex. The risks of getting STD/HIV is just too great. The key here is promoting “safe sex” and while even that is not fool proof, it is a start.

As a bisexual male I also shy away from sex with bisexual and gay men for the same reasons.

[pepperjack]

OK, while I differed & conflicted w/you briefly before, I have to admit that I still admire your intelligence & ability to express yourself through the written word. So, why don't you take up Drew's offer & become a writer for the site? You seem like a natural for the position to me.

[drugstore cowboy]

Aeon you're being biphobic and this isn't the mid or late 80s when people actually thought that being bisexual or by having safer sex with a bisexual man that you somehow were more at risk for getting HIV. There's such a thing as safer sex and yes you can have safer sex with someone who is HIV+ and you won't get infected with HIV or if they're having sex with someone who is HIV+ they're not going to get infected with another strain of HIV or infect someone else. You're also ignoring the fact that A LOT of straight men are infected with HIV, and that yes women can infect each other with HIV and that there are HIV+ lesbian women. Try to actually learn about HIV, safer sex, and about HIV transmission before you run your mouth and show how little you know about these things. HIV is NOT in sharp decline, granted it's nowhere near as bad as it was in the 80s which I survived and stayed HIV neg during the original pandemic but the HIV pandemic itself is not over. Your posts reek of bigotry, biphobia, and Poz phobia, and it's not surprising.

[slipnslide]

I believe her core argument is that the MSM in North America has higher infection rates of STIs and HIV than any other group. There may be regional discrepancies, but overall that's a pretty good rule of thumb. So by eliminating sexual activity with these men, it's not biphobic, it's saying she's good at math.

Any other argument is suggesting she should risk her health for the sake of some ideology of equality. Accidents do happen. Accidental unsafe contact with the people she chooses to have sex with entails less risk than accidental unsafe contact with the group she chooses to not have sex with. Seems like a pretty sound argument. How can anyone call her names for that?

[æonpax]

Tenni,

You are absolutely missing the point here. It doesn’t matter what I think, you think or others here think. The problem with Bisexuals is that we are, as many have put it; Invisible. For Christ’s sake, read what I posted without your defensive blinders.

When confronted by people who are ignorant of or otherwise misinformed about bisexuals, they base their arguments about Bi’s based on myths and secondhand information, especially about males. With females, they think it’s hot and sexy based on bullshit they see on TV. My own opinions are based on inadequate facts and a sliver of experience.

As I pointed out, there are very little, if any, statistical facts based purely on bisexual activities as we are grouped with either lesbians or gay males.

I once posted about “down low” males, married and heterosexual by day, but at night, are on the prowl for MSM. This phenomenon has even made it on TV, NBC I think. By definition, they are bisexual but are apart from the bisexual community. Still, those with an already prejudiced notion against bisexuals, use their activities to judge all bisexuals and that just is not right.

If you want to start dick-waving about men, have at it but don’t wave your insecurities at me. I’m looking for a consensus of commonality among us bisexuals that can open mindedly discuss a very complex issue. I’m looking for an edge that can logically explain to those whom are uninitiated, that while sex is a part of bisexuality, it is NOT careless as many perceive, but an inclusive and distinctly different orientation than being gay or lesbian that can stand alone, on it’s own merits.

[Long Duck Dong]

when the stats are complied in studies, its done on the nature of the sexual activities, more than the sexuality of the person, as people interpret their sexuality in various way, but sexual activities do not lie and yes it leads to the issue of gay v's bisexual in studies..... unfortunately, using self defining sexuality is creating the issue, more than helping resolve a issue.......

while I support the bisexual community and their wish to be out and visible, in NZ they need to stop hiding in with the gay and lesbian communities / parades and events, and create their own if they want to be seen better by the public, but no the bi community will not do it, and by god they will bitch about being invisible while arguing that they have every right not to have to be in the public eye as their sexuality is their own business...... and I will be dead honest, I am more focused on helping the LGBT communities that are interested and open to help and support, than the separate groups under the LGBT umbrella that want to bitch and argue and fight about how things are not good enuf, but do not want to do anything about it.....

lol the NZ stats are collected by 3 different agencies, GAYNZ, health.govt and the AIDS foundation and honestly I can not remember a year that they have all presented the same facts and findings... so I generally ignore the NZ stats, as I could present stats that say that there is now a 1 in 15 person infection rate, and how that is a drop in the infection rate from the 1-20 that it used to be and while we have the highest rate of infected people in NZ with more people infected now than there has been over the last 20 years, there is a drop in the number of infected people, and we need to be concerned at the increase in infection rates........
yes I know, that makes no fucking sense at all..... but lol thats why I generally avoid using the official stats

how do we fix the issues with the stats, well, to my way of thinking, it would help if the govt depts and other agencies STOPPED limiting sexuality to gay / lesbian / other... and opened it up to cover gay / lesbian / bi / MSM / WSW / other...and stopped presenting the stats in a way that blurred the bloody truth, and it would help if people stopped lying in surveys and census reports cos they do not want to be known as people that have alternative sexual practices even when the surveys and census are anonymous ..... but I am realistic in that we are more likely to have a openly gay prime minister in NZ than we are to have honesty in stat collecting and reporting...... and my money is on the openly gay prime minister to be honest......

[Hephaestion]

Tenni,

I was tempted to give you a sarcastically laced reply but that would serve no purpose. However, it does give me an opportunity to explain something.

On my ad/profile I have myself defined as a Mistress (in the old sense of the word) or a handmaiden, which better describes my duties. I’ve been of service to the same man for close to eight years now. He is a married black male…his wife approves and while he is straight, she is bisexual. He is also the owner of a very successful company on which I am an executive officer. I have had two children by him…a daughter, 6, whom I have custody of and a boy, 4, whom he and his wife have. I get compensated very well.

I’ve interacted sexually with a lot of black folk, mainly male but occasionally a female here and there. As Jim (his name, more or less) considers me an expensive investment, he screens all the people I see as part of my duties. I get bi-monthly check-ups for STD/HIV and am clean. While I cannot see another man without his strict approval, I can see other females so long as I use common sense.

Being with blacks all the time and raising a biracial daughter, has given me a unique perspective most are not privy too…like the myriad forms of racism I’ve experienced, even amongst blacks (especially females) who think white women have no business with a black man.

Considering your cavalier mention of black statistics, you are absolutely clueless when it comes to the extent of problems within the black community and equally as ignorant at the attempts that are being made to curb drug abuse and the spread of HIV/STD by blacks, for blacks. I would thank you ahead for not commenting on things you know nothing about.

Sincerely,

Joan

Aeon - your description of life and your circumstances does not come across as a comfortable one. I found the words 'compensated'. 'he screens all the people I see as part of my duties', 'expensive investment'. I kept looking for the words 'pimp', 'slave', 'commodity', 'prostitute', 'trapped'.......?


I see LDD's point of view that IV drug usage is a very good method of spreading HIV.


.

[The Bisexual Virgin]

Aeonpax
I do apologize if my post has come across as racist. That is what shows up when you google bisexuals HIV. Again I ask do you have stats to indicate for bisexuals HIV compared to all bisexual men?

There are stats for Whites and Latino (no Asians, sub continent Indian btw) who are gay or bisexual but not for bisexual on their own. Racism in my society is not as overt as your society but it does exist. I would guess that Asians and sub continent Indians are the more visible minorities where I live. I never saw the stats as racist but they are listed in your CDC fact sheet racially broken down but not broken down gay or bisexual male. The CDC does breakdown IDU as well as by sexuality for Blacks but not other races and posted it September, 2011.

The numbers of Black HIV IDU users is a far smaller number than gay and bisexuals(MSM). Ten times more HIV for white gay/bisexual men and also ten times more for Black HIV MSM (gay/bisexual) compared to either Black men or Black women HIV IDU users. So there is concern for having sex with gay/bisexual men. We just don't know if it is bisexual men as the most at risk as there are no stats on bisxual men on their own. As you state gay men are no danger to you. Yet, you don't really know how much of a risk bimen are to you. Stat wise, he is less of a risk than white or black MSM.

Hispanic men (MSM) are also mentioned and the risks are about 40% fewer HIV. You won't know if it is a Hispanic bisexual or a gay Hispanic as the breakdown for gay or bisexual is not mentioned due to Bi Erasure/Bi Invisibility of your government agency. If you were available, you would have to decide whether to gamble with a cute Latino bisexual man or not.

Black HIV heterosexual women outnumber Black HIV heterosexual men. There are about twice as many HIV Black Heterosexual women than Black HIV Hetrosexual men.

Both Black HIV Heterosexual men and women out number HIV IDU Black men and women.

Nearly five times more for Black HIV Heterosexual women compared to Black HIV IDU men. (even a greater difference for Black HIV IDU women)

The other studies stated what I posted.

I'm pleased that although your tone suggests that you find my post racist that you have taken it somewhat seriously. Please do google or research and let us all know what you find.

Where did you get this information, tenni?

[tenni]

Bi Virgin


DF] CDC Fact Sheet - HIV and AIDS among Gay and Bisexual Men

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/...nal508comp.pdf

Ok..the above comes up if you google "percentage of HIV that are bisexual men"
It shows as the second google site when I google this.

You click it and a PDF comes up and downloads. You need an adobe reader which also may be downloaded from the adobe website if you don't have it.

I can not get it to work from this site as it says not listed but it works if you google. Sorry for the complication. I interpreted the charts. I tried to copy them to this page and it was too large a file.

[elian]

So in other words, the bottom line is there is no 100% straight line between a certain demographic group and your ability to contract an STD. Even if someone is not sexually promiscuous they could sleep with another partner that is, or who is monogamous but received the illness through IV use.

I have really been struggling with my sexuality lately, I've watched movies like this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrJ5qvTPwDQ

..and been completely drawn to the romance and the fantasy, but the reality seems so different. I feel that if people knew what I really felt inside I would risk being looked down upon and rejected..for something that I don't think is horrible at all. But then I read the conversation that goes on here, that shows another aspect of risk.. I really would rather not spend three hours in a bar, with smoke so heavy it stings your eyes, that's not me..but it seems to be where most of the boys hang out. Honest to God I wish I could be straight or "normal" or at least "understood" - instead all I am is "hidden" and frustrated.. Thank God that I have enough of a mind to remember that there is more to life than dating.

[slipnslide]

I feel that if people knew what I really felt inside I would risk being looked down upon and rejected..for something that I don't think is horrible at all.

I understand that. I just had a conversation at work about the rampant anti-gay remarks I hear all the time. It lets you know what the average person out there is really thinking when they don't have to censor themselves. One report filed by me and people would be fired. But who wants that on their conscience?

[æonpax]

The Bisexual Virgin,

1 - Here is the link Tenni was referring to. (I shortened it but it's still .pdf)) - http://alturl.com/a2ion

2 - Here is the chart on that page;

You might want to compare what the CDC says on that site with Tenni's interpretation and draw your own conclusions.

[slipnslide]

One of the biggest problems that the gay and bi community faces about MSM health issues is admitting that there is a problem.

[The Bisexual Virgin]

The Bisexual Virgin,

1 - Here is the link Tenni was referring to. (I shortened it but it's still .pdf)) - http://alturl.com/a2ion

2 - Here is the chart on that page;

You might want to compare what the CDC says on that site with Tenni's interpretation and draw your own conclusions.

Maybe I am reading the chart wrong, isn't the bar with the dark blue suppose to be the one with higher risk of HIV. But in the title, and what said that black heterosexual account for the most infections, and I am seeing something else. I might need to look this through again.

But thanks, Aeon.

[elian]

Regarding this graph, if you tell me that they equally surveyed 500 people of each race, gender and sexual preference then the graph tells me something, if they surveyed a different number of people in each demographic category then I have to question the validity. Guess I need to click the link and find out.

I don't deny that there are certain high risk populations but the fact of the matter is that NOBODY is immune and when people make assumptions they are taking a risk. If I know my partner IS monogamous then I know my risk factor is lower..better still to get people tested - regardless of sexual preference. We need to fight against the stereotype that testing is not necessary.

I acknowledge the risk but I still wonder about how some of these studies are conducted, like they pay someone to stand out on the street corner of a dance club at 2AM and interview gay men? "How many partners do YOU sleep with?"

[slipnslide]

Regarding this graph, if you tell me that they equally surveyed 500 people of each race, gender and sexual preference then the graph tells me something, if they surveyed a different number of people in each demographic category then I have to question the validity. Guess I need to click the link and find out.

That's not how statistics work. You don't need equal numbers to draw conclusions. You need a sample that is sufficiently large to be statistically significant. You would be surprised how small that number can actually be.

I don't deny that there are certain high risk populations but the fact of the matter is that NOBODY is immune and when people make assumptions they are taking a risk. If I know my partner IS monogamous then I know my risk factor is lower..better still to get people tested - regardless of sexual preference. We need to fight against the stereotype that testing is not necessary.

That's not the problematic assertion. The problematic assertion, and you see it all over threads here, is something like "there is such thing as safe sex you know. . duh". No one is questioning that so I don't know why it gets repeated over and over. The OP clearly acknowledges that safe sex is a start, but if it was as simple as that, there would be far less HIV right? Condoms break, so a good question would be, why are all these guys having sex with guys of questionable health status? Your insistence on testing is about after the fact when it might be too late. No one ever avoided HIV by getting themselves tested.

I acknowledge the risk but I still wonder about how some of these studies are conducted, like they pay someone to stand out on the street corner of a dance club at 2AM and interview gay men? "How many partners do YOU sleep with?"

I believe a lot of it is aggregated data from public health offices.

[Long Duck Dong]

lol its actually the estimated cases based on medical stats and info provided, not a survey on a street corner lol......

trouble there is its based on the reported cases, NOT the unreported cases and I dread to think how many people are there are infected and have no idea, or no interest in knowing if they are infected or not.....

its a bit like the testing done at a LGBT event in NZ, and they found 20 new cases of infection.... yet apparently ( according to media reports ) most of the people infected, would have not gone to a doc or a med lab to be tested as it would be a form of outing themselves, as you have to provide identifying details, the testing at the LGBT event was anonymous testing with no revealing identity details given.... or in simple terms, you are assigned a ID number and that number is used for the test samples and the results and you can collect the results over the phone anonymously when you give them your ID number......

do I think thats a good idea.... yes and no... people get tested which is good, but they can also hide themselves and their HIV status and that can become a risk to themselves and others.... and some people just do not care who they place at risk

it still comes down to one thing, safe sex equals minimal risk... but some people just do not want to do that cos as far as they are concerned, its their right to have unprotected sex and not be at risk, plus any and all responsibility lays with the other person if it goes wrong,... they bear none of the responsibility themselves for not keeping themselves safe as its their right not to have to be safe......

yes I do believe that people have a responsibility to reveal their hiv status to partners, so a choice can be made, but I do not believe that all responsibility with any issues, lay solely with one person when it takes 2 ( or more ) people to have sex.....

[tenni]

Maybe I am reading the chart wrong, isn't the bar with the dark blue suppose to be the one with higher risk of HIV. But in the title, and what said that black heterosexual account for the most infections, and I am seeing something else. I might need to look this through again.

But thanks, Aeon.

I may be wrong Bi Virgin but I think that you are correct to some extent. The highest numbers (not risk but fairly accurate to assume so) of new cases in 2009 (last figures available) show the most new cases were in the MSM for White, Black and lower are Hispanic MSM and they are around ten times higher that Black Male Intravenous Drug Users. I thought that Aeonpax was bringing in a point about drug use earlier on and that is why I compared them.

There is no separation for bisexuals separate from gay men and that is my point. It is all unknown speculation about the numbers of bisexuals but they are lumped in with gay men. Are bisexual the largest part of this stat(MSM) or a smaller number compared to gay men? We just don't know about bisexual men. It may be true that you are high risk with bisexual men (regardless of race) or it may be a falacy and an assumption that bisexual men do not practice safe sex.

Bisexual single and married men that I have had sex with have been cautious and practiced safe(r) sex as I do and most bimen that I've met. Bimen can screen their partners just as Aeonpax is stating for herself. You don't have to have anal sex as a bisexual man to have a sexual activity with another man. It may be a falacy to believe that all bisexual men participate in high risk MSM sexual acts. It may be true. We don't know and no one has presented any evidence to prove that bisexual men are as high(er) risk than gay men. All we know is that bimen as a group have been placed in the high risk category. There might have been 500 bisexual men(of all races) new cases or 26 000 bisexual men with new cases of HIV and only a few gay men or vice versa.