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  1. #1

    Biphobia: the Gay Side

    "If bi-phobia IS about monogamy then it's not reasonable at all."

    Gearbox refers to biphobia as routed in monogamy. Monogamy may play a role in Biphobia as expressed by "some" gays /lesbians and heterosexuals. Monosexuals and bisexuals may or may not be compatible depending upon the individuals. Certainly monogamy impacts many bisexuals' lives.

    Here is a perspective from a gay man as to why "some" gays and lesbians have biphobia.

    Quotes from "Biphobia: The Gay Side by Daniel Vivacqua

    "I know that my biphobia comes from this idea that bisexual people can, at any time, shed the weight of being queer and live a heterosexual life. It's as if they get the benefits when they want them but don't have to bear the burden if they don't want to."

    'we(gay/lesbian) consider sexuality to be an essence, an unchanging core identity, and the way that lesbian and gay communities have adopted this view ... has led to a great deal of lesbian and gay biphobia."

    "if sexuality is fluid and flexible, if people can be bisexual, then does that call into question the essential nature of being queer?"

    "Bisexuality might scare gay and lesbian people because it can't be neatly wrapped up in a box."

    "Maybe I recognize a little bisexuality in myself and pushed myself to identify as a gay man for fear of uncertainty."

    A positive position for bisexuals to take with biphobic gays and lesbians according to Daniel is
    "I don't care if you think I'm just a promiscuous perv and I don't care if you think it's a phase and I don't care if you don't accept me as part of the gay community, this is who I am."
    http://news.change.org/stories/biphobia-the-gay-side

    How should bisexuals deal with biphobia from some biphobic gays/lesbians, heterosexuals and even from other bisexuals?

    Do you agree with Daniel as to the source of biphobia in some gays and lesbians?
    Last edited by tenni; Jan 27, 2012 at 12:16 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    Quote Originally Posted by tenni View Post
    "If bi-phobia IS about monogamy then it's not reasonable at all."

    Gearbox refers to biphobia as routed in monogamy. Monogamy may play a role in Biphobia as expressed by "some" gays /lesbians and heterosexuals. Monosexuals and bisexuals may or may not be compatible depending upon the individuals. Certainly monogamy impacts many bisexuals' lives.

    Here is a perspective from a gay man as to why "some" gays and lesbians have biphobia.

    Quotes from "Biphobia: The Gay Side by Daniel Vivacqua

    "I know that my biphobia comes from this idea that bisexual people can, at any time, shed the weight of being queer and live a heterosexual life. It's as if they get the benefits when they want them but don't have to bear the burden if they don't want to."

    'we(gay/lesbian) consider sexuality to be an essence, an unchanging core identity, and the way that lesbian and gay communities have adopted this view ... has led to a great deal of lesbian and gay biphobia."

    "if sexuality is fluid and flexible, if people can be bisexual, then does that call into question the essential nature of being queer?"

    "Bisexuality might scare gay and lesbian people because it can't be neatly wrapped up in a box."

    "Maybe I recognize a little bisexuality in myself and pushed myself to identify as a gay man for fear of uncertainty."

    A positive position for bisexuals to take with biphobic gays and lesbians according to Daniel is
    "I don't care if you think I'm just a promiscuous perv and I don't care if you think it's a phase and I don't care if you don't accept me as part of the gay community, this is who I am."
    http://news.change.org/stories/biphobia-the-gay-side

    How should bisexuals deal with biphobia from some biphobic gays/lesbians, heterosexuals and even from other bisexuals?

    Do you agree with Daniel as to the source of biphobia in some gays and lesbians?


    yes i think he's onto something there tenni, definitely. bisexuals can 'pass' and lead 'normal' lives if they are in opposite gender relationships. so in many ways biphobia is rooted in gays and lesbians internalised homophobia (self-pity, the desire to lead straight lives with no discrimination), which is caused by homophobia, which is ultimatly rooted in sexism and misogynism. bisexuality undermines the concept of fixed sexuality, championed by many gays and lesbians, and so essential in forming an minortiy identity that can seek to win the fight for equal rights
    i think bisexuals should deal with biphobic gays and lesbians by trying to connect through similarities and impress upon them that bisexuals suffer homophobia too: that homophobia affects gays, lesbians and bisexuals in equaly strong ways. (same skin, different suffering).

    Not sure though if monogamy/no monogamy has anything to do with Daniel's theory though.
    interesting post, thanks Tenni.

    don't forget though that as well as suffering biphobia from some gays and lesbians, bisexuals are also fetishised and made the object of affection by some gays and lesbians; so what is taking away by biphobia can be overcome by the power that is given to bisexuals by being eroticised.
    Last edited by dafydd; Jan 27, 2012 at 12:59 PM.
    "I like the pole & the hole."

  3. #3

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    It wasn't really so much biphobia that I experienced but I was very disturbed by a few comments from "friends" when my partner died. I was basically told I should be grieving a friend not a partner cause she was already married to someone else. Ellie and I were exclusively with each other, her husband was someone that literally could not perform with a woman. It was a marriage that was safe for both as it satisfied families on both sides while allowing them to explore their sexuality while knowing they had a loving spouse who would walk through the fires of hell for them if need be.

    For eight years I was with Ellie as her only lover and she was my only lover, we would have been considered "common law married" in most states if she wasn't already married. But when those friends just couldn't understand the depth of loss and equated it more to the loss of a pet than of a partner, it made me start to wonder why I was even hanging around with all members of LGBT and started drifting more to the lesbian side of things. I guess you could say that at this moment in time I'm a lesbian with a cock fetish and my current partner, female, allows me to do what I need to do to be happy with myself and with her. I allow her the same freedom and we are starting to talk about making a larger commitment than just overnight three or four times a week.

    But what I do find amusing is that any group will claim phobia of another group if they disagree with their viewpoints. But all in all any of us can be a touch phobic about things and any of us can be a touch racist about things. Stereotypes exist for a reason, it's what people have experienced and it's up to bisexuals, lesbians,gays and trans to show people that we are just people. Not a new species, not the newest strain of flu, not the next big fad. We are just people that are here to love and be loved.

    So am I biphobic? No, but I am leery of opening up to some LGBT (and that includes all homosexuals, bisexuals and transgendered) because of callous reactions to traumatic happenings. Would I date another bisexual, yes provided ground rules were set before it went past the getting to know you stage. But right now I'm happy with my mostly lesbian partner and enjoying some nice toys

    Rhevan

  4. #4

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    Interesting article; I'm sure that this is the nub of the issue for some homosexuals.

    I think for those homosexuals who do have this same/similar thought, they are missing the fact that, for the bisexual, the bisexual's see's his/her own sexuality as 'an unchanging, core identity,' too.

    I do not believe that bisexuality 'calls into question the essential nature of being queer', as Daniel asks... it merely asserts another type of sexuality.

    As for how bisexuals should deal with biphobia from homosexuals.... I think we need to start by asking, what is it that we want from them?

  5. #5

    How Fundamental Monosexuality Dehumanizes Us All

    When I was with a college group, there was this bi girl reading a book about sexuality and she quoted it to us, saying, "so what if it's a choice?" and we were all like, "testify sistuh."
    A couple things with Mr. Vivacqua, he assumes bisexuals change their orientations at will, instead of it being fluctuations of brain hormones. He also assumes that sticking to an opposite-sex attraction will remove stigma, but, folk are probably still going to pick on a person who has a history of sexual fluidity. The error of monos, I feel, is that their definition of 'sexual orientation' is crammed into a pinhole. Also that it's something fundamental or 'core' as the author put it. Gays identify as gays, not as humans who have sex with humans. The only thing 'core' is the primate sex drive. Other humans are not a sexual orientation, they are not acts one does to receive pleasure-fetishes, penetration, humping are the true orientations, what one does to orgasm. Among monos this also fluctuates constantly.
    When I was with PFLAG, the chapter I was with gave a news magazine some flack because an article said that it was harder for the current generation to pick sex partners because there are too many choices nowadays-homosexuality, enema fetishes, bondage-and this is true, but my group could not tolerate 'choice' and 'homosexuality' in the same sentence. So they told the magazine to retract those statements.
    This incident was one of the reasons I left-that the way gay rights groups were going about things was counter productive. The "it ain't a choice" mantra carefully tries to hide the fact that monos in general choose, and always choose, who to have sex with. Nothing is forcing them to have sex with a particular person-it's because they want it and choose to act on the desire. Mentioning this, though, will cause mass hysteria among PFLAGers because they believe that if the truth were known their campaigns would fail and all the laws they've promoted nullified.
    What they fail to be cognizant of is that folk with fetishes-sadism, scatting, piercing, whatever, don't have this hang up. Everyone knows they choose to do this and no one cares. Their rights to engage in consensual weirdness without persecution in is no danger. It is only when a thing, not originally fundamental to the human species, is decided to be the essence of what a human is that things go bad.
    There is a forum, called skadi.net, that promotes the purity of the German race. Because they have decided to make 'german' a fundamental thing, instead of an accident of birth, several threads go into tedious DNA discussions about what are pure 'german' genes. Some members advocate the forced expellation of persons who are even 1/16th Polish because they are impure European mulattos (eurattos?). Homosexuality also suffers this logical error because it raises 'gay' to the essence level of what a human is. This leads to the problem of defining what a 'gay' is, and several sects have arisen. Some think acting like a 'fairy' is the only true gayness, some think only uber butch 'tops' are, others that you can't be Christian/Muslim/Jewish and so forth and be 'gay', and, similar to the 'german race' folk, some 'gays' look for the 'gay' gene-but what if a 'gay' doesn't have it? No one is looking for the 'straight' gene or the 'bi' gene, which is damning for their arguments. With Mr. Vivacqua it's not being attracted to women-but what does that mean? As he admits, he recognizes bisexuality in himself. Does this mean he kisses women out of affection? Likes to hug them? Has erotic dreams about them?
    Bonding with other humans evolved because it was the best way for offspring to reach sexual maturity-the technical details of the bond are insignificant. This instinct manifests as the desire to have sex with another human whom we feel is kind and caring. No one likes a rapist or an asshole. Not being able to procreate does not change this force. When monosexuals took this and stuck it into a pinhole, saying 'gayness' and 'straightness' are core essences this has led to all our sexo-social problems, mostly against the 'gayness' side( the pink triangles of Nazi Germany for example), but my point is they have confused pair bonding with what kinds of sex one likes, in that 'sex-with-a-certain-sex', regardless of the reason, is considered a permanent thing, and not a sexual orientation that arises from the sex drive.
    So, in my opinion, the 'core essence' of Mr. Vivacqua is dehumanizing because it seeks to replace what is truly part of our humanity-that by our primate nature, if not our entire evolutionary inheritance, our sexual orientations fluctuate. Denying this, and the misunderstanding of why humans bond together has led to murder and inhumane laws. We all need to enter a new level of sexual maturity.

  6. #6

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    Quote Originally Posted by FunE1 View Post
    As for how bisexuals should deal with biphobia from homosexuals.... I think we need to start by asking, what is it that we want from them?
    Do u mean the 'gay' lifestyle maybe?...surely you engage in homosexual acts.... so in a sense you are part homosexual.

    What do 'we' want from them:...
    ok here's a few things they could give 'us'.

    Support/encouragement/advice/empathy/understanding/courage/adversity/tenacity/wit/ability to mobilise together across all races, cultures, creeds etc etc and challenge and change opression/how to deal with internalised homophobia/advise on coming out/sense of appreciation for past struggles that have afforded you your rights today/dealing with shame/enabling pride/being non-discriminatory/learning to not opress others in order to not be opressed/infrastruture of non-profit organisations that raise countless funds for bisexual projects/art/culture/The Mona Lisa/the modern computer age/fighting wars for your country/love/life/and of course their cocks.
    "I like the pole & the hole."

  7. #7

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    Quote Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
    .....of course their cocks.
    .. but I don't have a cock Daffy..
    Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you.

  8. #8

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    I have spent most my life "shedding the gay side" and TRYING to live a straight life, only to finnaly realize that I cant(and should not) shed any part of me. It is a part of me and I am learning to embrace that side, it is what I am. By shedding and burying only led to misery... At 46 and for the first time I am becomminc a happy person.......for what ever reason I enjoy both sexes and to deny one is to deny myself.....just my thought on the subject

  9. #9

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    How should bisexuals deal with biphobia from some biphobic gays/lesbians, heterosexuals and even from other bisexuals?

    Do you agree with Daniel as to the source of biphobia in some gays and lesbians?
    How should bisexuals deal with biphobia from some biphobic gays/lesbians, heterosexuals and even from other bisexuals?

    "Huh, what? Sorry, I was busy loving, laughing, living."

    Do you agree with Daniel as to the source of biphobia in some gays and lesbians?

    "Oh sorry, a hater said something? If I don't know what they said I can not in any way agree, or disagree with what was said. Excuse me, going back to living."

  10. #10

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    I didn't even guess that Danials reasons were possible. It was bad enough when I thought it was about monogamy, but this surely is a lot more disturbing?
    Apparently not being heterosexual is all about suffering and who gets the 'easiest ride' through hetero-world.(If I got that right!).
    A great deal of suffering does go on, but to rate bisexuality as being the more privileged of non-heterosexuals is shallow to say the least.

    I'll have to chew on that.

  11. #11

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    Hmmm. Not sure I took the same thing away from Daniel's article that some did. Far from hating, I found him to be making a call for inclusiveness...

    He concludes his first paragraph by saying, "The more I read about bisexuality, the more I realize that I'm wrong and the more I come to terms with the reasons why I might feel the way I do."

    Then after sharing what he believes are HIS reasons for being biphobic, he says, "So I guess this is a call to action: The LG and T community need to make more of an effort to support the B's among us. Being bisexual doesn't mean being selfish or sitting on the fence, it means being brave enough to live in the gray space."

    And, finallly, he closes the entire piece with, "We need to provide a loving environment for our bisexual brothers and sisters and make them welcome among us. And maybe we need to learn to look at ourselves and accept some gray in our lives, too."

    I'm not sure I find a lot of hate in there, IMHO.

  12. #12

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    Here is a nice gay man discussing how he confronted his biphobia by dating a man that he didn't initially realize was bisexual man.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diEqhUpDClc
    Last edited by tenni; Jan 30, 2012 at 9:15 AM.

  13. #13

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    Quote Originally Posted by FunE1
    I'm not sure I find a lot of hate in there, IMHO.
    It's not about hate. More like fear of 'other kinds' like xenophobia as far as I can see.
    If it was hate, they wouldn't have sex with us either. Thank fek it's not!

  14. #14

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Gearbox View Post
    It's not about hate. More like fear of 'other kinds' like xenophobia as far as I can see.
    If it was hate, they wouldn't have sex with us either. Thank fek it's not!
    U do have a point in a sense, Gear... many gay's will fuck bi people if they can... doesnt mean they dont have biphobia.. think on it this way.. I've known a number a racists who enjoy fucking a girl from a different ethnic origin.. doesnt mean they aren't racist... it does mean they enjoy showing off their superiority over other races or in the case of one black guy... vengeance is mine... still racist... and so in the same way gays fucking bi's or vice versa can still be phobic... I realise what Ive said is much too simplistic but u get the gist I think... because some guys fuck women and even marry them does not make the any less misogynist.. similarly some women may marry a man and fuck him regularly.. but some are often no less the manhater for all that...

    Who we may date and fuck actually is no guarantee that we like them as individuals or as a type.... equally who we do not and categorically reject doesn't of itself tell us that we hate them or their kind either.. very complex thing human relationships...
    Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you.

  15. #15

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    A friend finds himself in a situation where after many years of self-identifying as gay, he's not so gay anymore. In a crazy twist, booze makes him go straight. Now he's in a position of fearing having to explain himself if he decides to pursue the girl because of identifying with a particular community.

    This all just highlights the problem of arbitrary and poorly defined labels.

  16. #16

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    I a member of a site that caters to mostly gay males. http://bearforest.com
    I have seen several posts "sex only, No Bisexuals", with no explanation. I don't understand it, however I have to accept it. I try to always accept EVERYONE the way I find them. If they wish to explain their position great. If not, oh well. That was one of the reasons my ex gave for leaving me. I always accepted her the way she was at all times and never criticized her. She claimed that I had robbed her of the opportunity to improve. Huh? Shouldn't we all just accept people as they come?

  17. #17

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Randypan View Post
    I a member of a site that caters to mostly gay males. http://bearforest.com
    I have seen several posts "sex only, No Bisexuals", with no explanation. I don't understand it, however I have to accept it. I try to always accept EVERYONE the way I find them. If they wish to explain their position great. If not, oh well. That was one of the reasons my ex gave for leaving me. I always accepted her the way she was at all times and never criticized her. She claimed that I had robbed her of the opportunity to improve. Huh? Shouldn't we all just accept people as they come?
    cos if we accepted people the way they came, we would have bugger all people to complain about, accuse of being wrong....and nothing to compare ourselves against so we can say that we are better cos we do not judge others....
    The only thing more painful than a broken heart, is catching yourself in your zip and having very cold hands

  18. #18

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    Quote Originally Posted by darkeyes View Post
    U do have a point in a sense, Gear... many gay's will fuck bi people if they can... doesnt mean they dont have biphobia.. think on it this way.. I've known a number a racists who enjoy fucking a girl from a different ethnic origin.. doesnt mean they aren't racist... it does mean they enjoy showing off their superiority over other races or in the case of one black guy... vengeance is mine... still racist... and so in the same way gays fucking bi's or vice versa can still be phobic... I realise what Ive said is much too simplistic but u get the gist I think... because some guys fuck women and even marry them does not make the any less misogynist.. similarly some women may marry a man and fuck him regularly.. but some are often no less the manhater for all that...

    Who we may date and fuck actually is no guarantee that we like them as individuals or as a type.... equally who we do not and categorically reject doesn't of itself tell us that we hate them or their kind either.. very complex thing human relationships...
    Oh Lordy Lord everything Humans do is made unnecessarily complex.
    I would never have accused a certain gay fuckbud of being biphobic. But that would explain a few things though. I thought that my being bi wouldn't matter a iota when it's 'just sex'. You couldn't tell me apart from a gay when in bed with a bloke.lol But (call me paranoid!) he seems to have that 'sexuality superiority' thing going on, as if the 'gay' could overcome the 'bi' in me (long story).
    Another lovely gay actually asked me if our great sex made me stop being attracted to women. God I wouldn't try and turn a gay bi! There's no cash bonuses for that, as far as I know.

  19. #19

    Re: Biphobia: the Gay Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Gearbox View Post
    Oh Lordy Lord everything Humans do is made unnecessarily complex.
    Not unnecessarily complex but I think more unavoidably complex... but sometimes we do make it more difficult and complex than it need be..
    Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you.

 

 

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