Bisexual Values

[Cowboy51]

Well, as I wrote, this thought came to me after seeing a politician speaking on television in reference to a part of Toronto noted for being a gay community. He referenced the word values. I am wondering if the word "beliefs" might be a better starting point. I am so disappointed in the approach taken by some though. As Not states, some just want to say that bisexuals have no commonality. I must admit that I find it difficult to articulate a value specific to bisexuals as well though. I thought that "tolerance" might have been a good start. I think that is valued by some on this site. Others give it lip service and turn around and show vindictiveness towards some bisexuals who do not live up to their morality. Enough written. I'm so very disappointed in this site at the moment.

I am actually using the quote box thingy this time. I would use it more often, but I have yet to figure out how to do multiple quotes. Anyways... IMO the problem was best stated by NOT, and you agreed I believe, when he said we always seem to put forth resistance to pigeonholing. THIS IS MY OPINION: homosexuality doesn't seem to be as diverse as bisexuality (I would say heterosexuality also, but it could be misconstrued with other arguments, like the one mentioned about MSM in another thread) and this is where our problems with a general consensus develop. STAY WITH ME. For homosexuals, it is widely understood as having a relationship (any relationship) with the same sex/gender. Bisexuality seems to have a BROAD scope of what constitutes as being bisexual, and we have seen these discussions/arguments over and over. (I.E.: I am bisexual because I am a "straight" person that occasionally has sex with another person of the same sex; I am bisexual because I want to be in a relationship with both men and women; I am bisexual because I am a gay person that wants to be in a relationship with both men and women; I am bisexual because I am a gay person that occasionally has sex with another person of the opposite sex; I like to have sex with both men and women, but I am not bisexual; THIS COULD GO ON AND ON) With such a broad generalization about bisexuality, it would be very difficult to come up with "VALUES" (lack of a better word/term) and I 100% agree with NOT, the resistance to this question shows the way to the answer. (This is where I wish I could use the multiple quotes.) As far as being disappointed with this site at the moment, what do you expect is going to happen when there are discussions about morals, virtues, values, politics, etc., etc. (I JUST CALL IT THE WAY I SEE IT.)

[NotLostJustWandering]

How about we try approaching this inquiry from a different angle, and ask instead:

Is there a bisexual spirit, something that has an influence on bisexuals regardless of their individual values, credos, experience of their sexuality and expression thereof? If so, what is the nature of that spirit?

A word that has come to my mind is "centrifugal."

Any thoughts on this?

[Cowboy51]

How about we try approaching this inquiry from a different angle, and ask instead:

Is there a bisexual spirit, something that has an influence on bisexuals regardless of their individual values, credos, experience of their sexuality and expression thereof? If so, what is the nature of that spirit?

A word that has come to my mind is "centrifugal."

Any thoughts on this?

Centrifugal: tending away from centralization : separatist <centrifugal tendencies in modern society> (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

There really isn't much more to say. In one word, you have pretty well described what some of us have been trying to say. The only other thing I would think to add to that is "Obscure".

[IanBorthwick]

Throughout my life there has been one central theme to the value I would ascribe to my bisexuality. One that is pure, simply spiritual and heartachingly clear.

Love Unrepentantly

[void()]

"I thought that "tolerance" might have been a good start. I think that is valued by some on this site. Others give it lip service and turn around and show vindictiveness towards some bisexuals who do not live up to their morality. Enough written. I'm so very disappointed in this site at the moment."

Tolerance is fine when folks admit responsibility and do not use crutches. And yes, I have seen both happen. I also understand there is not only black and white. But if one is a cruel jerk or acts like one, and asks for a blessing, that is beyond tolerance.

Supposing for sake of argument I kill a family. At trial I claim being diabetic and state the disease forced me to kill that family. How likely am I to be acquitted and exonerated, simply because "oh poor him, he's diabetic"? And it is the same with those using "crutches" of any kind. I have used crutches as well but came to realize they cause more harm than good, and now forgo using them.

Again there is not only black and white and I'm human the same as the next. That isn't an excuse or crutch but statement of fact. We all may commit errors. Fine. But to suggest you get a free pass on it because you are x,y, or z is malarkey.

vin·dic·tive (vn-dktv) KEY

ADJECTIVE:

1. Disposed to seek revenge; revengeful.
2. Marked by or resulting from a desire to hurt; spiteful.


vindictive adjective
/vɪnˈdɪk.tɪv/ adj disapproving
having or showing a wish to harm someone because you think that they have harmed you; unwilling to forgive

I am not any of this, tenni. Sorry to disappoint you.

[tenni]

Void re post #35

There are belief structures in place. Belief structures are connected to values when determining what is moral and what is immoral. To place restrictions (crutches?) on what is tolerated is basing this tolerance on beliefs and values.

It is a moral decision to state that a man performing oral sex on another man's penis is wrong regardless of the reasons (crutch?). It is a moral decision to state that a bisexual man who performs oral sex on a another man's penis without his partner's permission is wrong regardless of the reasons (crutch?). To hold one of these moral decisions as wrong while claiming the other as correct is to possibly hold a double standard or be basing these decisions on values and beliefs. It would seem that a bisexual would be basing these decisions on both a mainstream (heterosexual) value /belief system in one case and rejecting the mainstream (heterosexual) belief /value system to prevent self hatred in the other.

When a man performs oral sex on another man's penis without permission of his partner and decides that he has made a moral error after a long process through counselling is the counselling a crutch? He confesses to his partner and this ends in divorce. He is condemned by heterosexuals and bisexuals for his actions (which are not humble/repentful enough for some bisexuals). His partner's counsellor tells him that he must tell his 18 year old offspring that he is bisexual and has had sex with men which is the cause of the divorce. He is condemned by others who are not bisexual for doing as the counsellor instructed. He is called a name (via a question) by a heterosexual that if a gay man used this term might be called a troll and said to be violating the "rules". Bisexuals state that this is appropriate and not done to hurt the bisexual man or being spiteful.

What values are these bisexuals using? What form of tolerance are they using? What crutch is being used to proclaim these actions as just and not vengeful? ("I'm a parent and know what to do with children more than a professional counsellor" seems to be the crutch to rationalize name calling of a bisexual) How is the stated bisexual man using a crutch and not taking responsibility?

Beliefs are being used to moralize in the above scenario. One question is whether these belief structures are based upon a mainstream society (heterosexually based values) or a bisexual belief structure to proclaim one moral action as just and the other as unjust?