What is Cheating?

My question is what constitutes cheating?
Is lusting after other people (Jimmy Carter, lust in my heart) cheating?

Is flirting cheating both with and without conscious intent to do anything about it?

Spending time with someone you are attracted to without physical contact cheating.

Falling in love with someone but not having sex cheating?

Kissing, if so how much or any kiss?

Masturbating to the fantasy of someone else real or imagined?

Is it still cheating if you don't orgasm but the other person does?

Where is the line that gets crossed and makes one thing cheating and another not? And just to keep it interesting is cheating ever justified?

lol my first reaction is to ask what bible do you read and what church did you / do you go to....?

I ask that as a lot of what you ask, is reflected in the verse that refers to lusting after another in your heart is committing adultery

ok the most common definition of cheating is to act in a manner without consent / permission or knowledge of other people.... IE cheating at cards....

beyond that point, cheating becomes a personal understanding, as to what is cheating and what can be defined as cheating.. and there have been many threads in the site about cheating but most do not draw into question, cheating in the way you do..... so it makes a refreshing change......

lol is cheating ever justified ???? lol thats a loaded question.......

most people will justify their actions, IE cheating, by various reasons and most of the time, they do it by placing responsibility on other people..... something that I do find amusing...... and the remark is often made that the person has no choice but to cheat.......

could you imagine using that defense as a casino... I have no choice but to cheat or I will not win lots of money..... lol......

however, is cheating justified..... at times, as wrong as cheating can be.... it can be justified, when the benefits outweigh the the consequences..... and there has been a couple of times where unintentional cheating has enabled a person to *escape * situations that have been serious risks to their mental and emotional well being and the cheating has enabled them to get out of the the situation and move on to a better life, away from the situation and the person.......

generally where its not justified but the person will justify cheating, is in marriages / relationships where people want to keep the marriage and their partners, but also want to explore / enjoy other forms of sexual contact that are not possible at home..... and often it is a case of where they have not / can not talk with their partners and reach a compromise..... so cheating becomes their outlet, and so they justify it with differing reasons, most of them blaming other people.......

I do have the view point that cheating is a personal choice..... as most of cheating involves our own personal choices......

I choose to meet other people
I choose to express a interest in being intimate
I choose to get undressed
I choose to have sex with them......
but I have no choice, I have to cheat........lol

yeah, there is a choice, its just not always the one we want to make.... and that is go with out or risk everything......

most threads about cheating in the site, turn into a fight cos of differing opinions ...... and I would be surprised if this one is any different

Thanks Long. The first choice is legitimate for some people myself not included but I wanted to cover my bases. While I'm not opposed to vigorous debate (fight) it is not my intention. The point is rather to hear some opinions of different people, especially in the context of this site. Your response for example is exactly what I am looking for. So for anyone else interested in posting a response keep it civil and not personal. I'm looking for your personal interpretations of what is and is not cheating.

Thanks

What was it that former president Clinton said, "I never inhaled" ?

Cheating implies that you have taken a vow to be in a committed relationship with someone else. To the extent that you break that vow you are "cheating". If you've never clearly communicated what the expectations are, now would be a good time to do that.

Except in maybe the case of homicidal maniacs I'm pretty sure that most people know when they are doing something wrong..when they realize that it's wrong they should discontinue the behavior.

Can it be justified? I don't know.. Plenty of people do it but that doesn't make it right. Not every situation is black and white.. one thing is for sure, the potential is there to hurt someone.

..if you crave sex so much and/or you've been without it so long that you are extremely depressed, feeling lonely or suicidal then maybe your first action needs to be to open your mouth to the one you are devoted to. If you can't bring yourself to say "I'm interested in the same sex" to that person then at least say, "I need help."

..having a desire for love, affection and sex is not wrong, looking at other people when they walk down the street is human nature, jokes with innuendo, although not really classy, are also not the worst thing. If you were to have sexual relations with that person that might be cheating.

I'm not in an exclusive committed relationship so my advice may not be the best.

Doing something deliberately that you know is outside the parameters of trust you have with another person or organisation.

Is what cheating???
In regard to your list....
Reverse the roles - if the other person in your relationship was doing any of those suggested actions, how would you regard it?????

There's your answer.

To me, and I know some will not agree with this, cheating is when you go outside the relationship for any sexual contact (cybering via cam or emails or instant messages as well as the actual physical contact) that your partner does not know about or consent to allowing you to do. That works for both partners in the relationship, it's no secret that cheating works both ways and it's for varied reasons, some almost justifiable, but most are just an excuse to look for a thrill:2cents:

I've been cheated on in every way imaginable, it went on for years until I finally snapped and divorced him. In a way, I also cheated. I was still technically married when I went and spent three sex filled months with Long Duck Dong in New Zealand but I had filed for divorce and ex had been out of the house for more than a year before I went. See, justification, doesn't make it right and if it had been a nasty fight in court I bet I'd have gotten slammed hard for it whereas his cybering with females would have been just smirked at.

What constitutes as 'cheating' is defined by either partner and settles at the most severest restrictions of any act. Even if the 'lesser severe' partner disagrees that a certain act is 'cheating', it is 'cheating' and non-consensual!;)
So that could range from a lustful thought to full on intercourse, or pleasant "Hello" to emotional adoration.
'No Consent' = 'Cheating'. The line is where either 'consenter'/partner puts it for the other/s.

'Justified cheating' is defined by the 'cheater', the partner and everybody else in the world, from 'understandable' to 'non existent'.:bigrin:
IMO the reasons/justifications for cheating are reasons for leaving or talking. Leaving or talking are not always good choices for everybody. But for some they are avoided anyway.:(

I don't ask what bible you read. Rather I simply ask what dictionary you use.

In most English dictionaries, cheating is a knowing violation of an agreement (stated or unstated).

I strongly suggest never agreeing to Thought Policing. What you think when you are masturbating or pass someone on the street are your business, and you are often not in control of those thoughts. But if you do agree never to have certain thoughts, then ok, if you have them, that's cheating.

My feelings regarding emotional policing are more subtle...mostly, because I don't think we have any more control over our emotions than we do over our thoughts. And yet it *feels* reasonable to suggest to someone that it's off limits to fall in love with someone else. I guess maybe I'd prefer to agree that I'll let a partner know if I fall in love with someone else...rather than promising it'd never happen...I can't control feeling the emotion, but I can control what I do with the information that I've had the emotion. But if you *have* agreed never to fall in love with someone else and you do fall in love with someone else, that is cheating.

In general I don't think society has any unstated rules about thoughts or emotions.

We do have unstated rules about physical things...certainly about kissing or having sex (regardless of who has an orgasm)...and sometimes, the rules are even explicit. But if your agreement with a partner says that you *can* do these things with others, then if you do, that is not cheating.

Flirting is a grey-zone. For some people, flirting is like breathing...they can't NOT do it...it's part of how they communicate. I don't think it is reasonable to tell those people they must interact in a way counter to their nature...but if they agree not to flirt, and then they do it anyway...that's cheating.

Hopefully, you're getting the idea here...if you don't honor your agreements (however restrictive or nonrestrictive), you are cheating...at least according to the standard usage of the word "cheating" in the English language.

Is cheating ever justified? Hmmm...in Western society, cheating (in any venue) is seen mostly as a reflection on your trustworthiness. It's not a matter of "is it justified"...it's a matter of what it says about you. Who is going to bring judgment? Generally the person you cheated against (whether it's sexual or cards or a business deal)...will they *ever* say, "well, you cheated, but it was justified, so ok." Of course not. And they would do well never to trust you again...because if you cheat (again, in any arena), you've proven to them that you are not trustworthy (at least in that arena).

Can you cheat and feel self-righteous about it, or get others to accept that you were right to do so? Well, sure...we can get ourselves to believe just about anything if we want to. But that doesn't help you with the person you cheated against.

Ethically (my opinion), the only time cheating is justifiable is when you are coerced into playing the "game". If you play at a table in Las Vegas, the game is not fair (always biased in favor of the House)...but you entered into it willingly, so cheating there is wrong. Similarly, most situations between a person and their partner are entered into willingly...so I see cheating in those venues as unjustifiable as well...if you feel the rules are problematic, you can discuss changing them, but you can't justify simply ignoring them while your partner thinks you're following them.

But say someone forces you at gunpoint (or perhaps by threatening a loved one) to play Russian Roulette. And suppose you have an opportunity to remove the bullet from the gun without it being detected. That's cheating! But you're not playing the "game" by choice, and the consequence of losing is unfairly biased against you. So yes, it's cheating, but you are absolutely justified in doing it anyway.

Similarly, suppose you are born into slavery, and there are rules saying that you are not to have possessions. Then say you find some money, or a tool that makes your life easier...or even gives you a means of escape. Hey! That breaks the rule...that's cheating! True, but you were forced into this system of rules, so sure it's cheating, but more power to you for breaking those rules.

Cheating would be discribed as anything that affronts your conscience. Were you to take it from the Bible or religious upbringing or just your moral head. If you feel it is wrong, then it is wrong. Simply siad. That being said; let's hope you're not a sociopath.

Allow me to amend and clarify my statement.

In the first part of my post, I stuck to definitions and language interpretation, then unfortunately lapsed into my own opinion in the second part. I say "unfortunately", because although of course my opinion is valid, I prefer to contribute *value* to a discussion, and opinions are less than a dime a dozen these days.

In the second part of my post, I should have simply said:

If you start asking whether cheating is ever justified, *that* is when I'll ask you which bible you read, or what ethical system you adhere to.


Um...and yeah...I hope there are *no* sociopaths on this thread. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Annika L

... cheating is a knowing violation of an agreement (stated or unstated)...

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I think this is the essence of it. Depending upon the agreement, all or none of the specified activities could be cheating. I prefer to avoid "unspoken agreements" whenever possible, as they are open to misunderstandings and errors of interpretation. And on that note:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...9QEwBg&dur=420

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Originally Posted by keefer10.7

Cheating would be discribed as anything that affronts your conscience. Were you to take it from the Bible or religious upbringing or just your moral head. If you feel it is wrong, then it is wrong. Simply siad. That being said; let's hope you're not a sociopath.

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dangerous statement :tong:...lol I know people that feel that anything outside of the missionary position and even then, if not for procreation, is wrong...lol.....

My question is what constitutes cheating?
I like the idea of starting with a dictionary definition for cheating and so I will take the meaning that it is violating an agreement. If all of the issues below are determined one way or other prior to the agreement and they were violated that would be cheating. However if a new issues comes up after the agreement then there is a dilemma if the people can not reach agreement. Neither would have the right to veto either action. That is the major issue for me and when I hear of people being accused of cheating. Who is involved in the agreement? Have certain aspects been assumed by one participant and not really dealt with openly and honestly between those involved.

Is lusting after other people (Jimmy Carter, lust in my heart) cheating?
From my perspective I would not willing accept this as cheating as part of an agreement.

Is flirting cheating both with and without conscious intent to do anything about it?
As I have been in relationships with "flirty" women, I think that I'd have to feel secure in knowing that the person has no conscious intent of doing anything beyond flirting. It was a trust factor. If it led to touching I might consider that crossing the line of acceptance for me. I did ask who was that person when there was touching. I usually accepted the answer. I can be a very trusting person..it seems.

Spending time with someone you are attracted to without physical contact cheating.
For me to spend time with someone that I am attracted to without physical contact would not be cheating. Frequency and the amount of time spent with them as opposed to another person that I'd be involved with might become factors due to my weakness for trust/jealousy.

Falling in love with someone but not having sex cheating?
Hmm This is difficult. If I found my emotions becoming involved with another person, I would hold myself responsible not to have sex without my partner of the agreement being aware.

Kissing, if so how much or any kiss?
A kiss might happen under certain circumstance , alcohol or no tongue kiss. I'm a sucker for a passionate kiss and at that point I would consider myself as having crossed a line of trust. I might not be able to trust myself to stop.

Masturbating to the fantasy of someone else real or imagined?
No, this fantasy masturbation would not be cheating under almost all circumstances for me. I would not enter into an agreement where it was seen as that.

Is it still cheating if you don't orgasm but the other person does?
Uh..what? It sounds like a sexual encounter. It would depend upon the gender of the other person. I'd accept an agreement where same sex and cross gender where seen as two distinctly different activities. If the person in the agreement were cross gender then it would be acceptable to have same sex with or without orgasm.

BOTTOM LINE If we did not agree to an activity before hand, you may not veto me. I may not veto you. If you or I can not tolerate the action then the agreement may need to be altered or cancelled. I would not accept any position that had been unstated as grounds to call it cheating. No one is at fault.

I think that it is best not to comment on other posters' opinions. Please do not set yourself up to judge other's viewpoint. No one has been assigned as an overseer. That leads to conflict imo

OK, well come to think of it my statement about "homicidal maniacs" might sound condescending but I didn't really mean it that way.

I made an ASSUMPTION that most people know right from wrong but I guess someone really COULD have a genuine question about what other people consider to be the norm..

I like innaminka's suggestion that you try the "golden rule" test - would you like your spouse to do the same thing to you? Of course some people believe that the "golden rule" means "If you have the gold you make the rules" .. that's not the type of behavior I'm advocating here.

I think Annika's statements also make a lot of sense.. Maybe an exception could be made if you are forcibly placed into a situation that threatens your life and the rules aren't fair.. Knowing that you are bonded to others in society by trust.. These are ideas that make sense to me.

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Originally Posted by stu.gottz

Is lusting after other people cheating?

Is flirting cheating both with and without conscious intent to do anything about it?

Spending time with someone you are attracted to without physical contact cheating.

Falling in love with someone but not having sex cheating?

Kissing, if so how much or any kiss?

Masturbating to the fantasy of someone else real or imagined?

Is it still cheating if you don't orgasm but the other person does?

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My answer/belief to all those questions is Yes, but than again I am a very jealous person and have the deepest wish in the world for a man or woman who have no desires for anyone but me. Though everyone knows that that is a dream for the romantic...

I think together, Annika's and Elian's definitions pretty much sum up what "cheating" is when it comes to a relationship (which I assume was the context for the discussion).

How, exactly, that is defined in any particular relationship is solely the discretion of the participants in the relationship, but in most cases involves the voluntary restriction/limitation of one's emotional & physical/sexual sharing/support to one (or more) specified partners. Cheating would involve any regular, continuous, interruption of that emotional/physical/sexual support outside of the partners' original agreement.

Thus, flirting would not necessarily be cheating... unless a partner engaged in it so frequently as to damage the emotional support they could provide (or their partner felt they were not providing) or did so with the intent to follow thru with actual emotional/physical activity outside their relationship.

Spending time with someone you were attracted to (but nothing physical took place) COULD be cheating if it had the same impact.

The same with falling in love w/o physical contact... If my love is unrequited and does not affect my ability to offer the emotional/physical support to my partner, then there is no harm; however, Love being what it is, I suspect that would probably eventually turn in to something that did harm my established relationship.

Kissing... yes, obvious cheating (if romantic kissing... social kissing excepted, obviously). Same with physical contact where only the other person orgasms.... Anything a partner does to give physical/sexual comfort outside of the relationship agreement would be cheating.

Masturbation to the fantasy of another person would NOT be cheating... unless (and again) it adversely affected the primary relationship.

Gearbox made an excellent point, methinks, with his comments: What "cheating" ultimately is defined as, is however the partner with the severest definition of cheating defines it.

Cheating, by definition I believe, is never justified (in the context of an emotional/physical/sexual relationship).

That's just me. YMMV.

Good questions. Very interesting seeing people's responses.

Pesonally I believe that what constitutes the line of cheating is something that should be thoroughly discussed by the couple in particular...because each relationship is different..Me I like my woman flirting with those she finds attractive as long as she is not doing it in a manner to be harmful to me.

So for each relationship requires different standards...

Cheating is anything that hurts your partner. Keeping it secret is hurting your partner. If you do anything with anyone else and it hurts your partner (or you believe it will so you keep it secret) then it is cheating!

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Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong

dangerous statement :tong:...lol I know people that feel that anything outside of the missionary position and even then, if not for procreation, is wrong...lol.....

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Ahhh, good LDD, here you are mistaken me. What I am saying is let the little man inside guide; ie. conscience. What it comes down to, for me, is like the poker hand you were so betting on and with some judgments, laid your cards down. When the winners hand was laid out, your judgement was true; his straight beat your full house. In this case, good judgement equaled your conscience.

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Originally Posted by keefer10.7

Ahhh, good LDD, here you are mistaken me. What I am saying is let the little man inside guide; ie. conscience. What it comes down to, for me, is like the poker hand you were so betting on and with some judgments, laid your cards down. When the winners hand was laid out, your judgement was true; his straight beat your full house. In this case, good judgement equaled your conscience.

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nods I know what you mean..... lol......

trouble is my own stance about cheating, conflicts with itself..... I do not agree with cheating, yet I would assist a person that is in a situation of cheating, based around the merits of the situation.....
what I believe may not always be right, but the right of others to have something / some one to believe in, override my personal opinion with cheating lol

the female member that was trapped in a abusive and destructive situation and her reaching out for a helping hand, turned into a situation that gave her a way out and a new life with a person that became her positive / supportive partner

the male member that was dealing with a terminally ill partner that was unaware of things due to her illness, and it was the husbands support person that was to become his new partner .....

Uhmm, Darlin...if youre lusting over Jimmy Carter, then you gots more problem then we can help you with......lol:bigrin:
Just teasing, Sugar.
Silly Cat

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Originally Posted by Light_and_Dark

Pesonally I believe that what constitutes the line of cheating is something that should be thoroughly discussed by the couple in particular...because each relationship is different..Me I like my woman flirting with those she finds attractive as long as she is not doing it in a manner to be harmful to me.

So for each relationship requires different standards...

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Yes but couples do not always agree on what is they each consider cheating, which lead to fights. Especially one says they believe one thing is cheating but the other disagrees and it ends up they usually miscommunicate. They both think they got their point across and the other partner is going their way when a matter of fact, its back to how they started.
Even the best communication in the world in a relationship does not always mean the issue or guidelines get correctly set in stone so to speak.

Correct...I agree with you 100% especially as views change over time.

It all depends on one's perspective...

http://i.imgur.com/MDbZ1.jpg

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Originally Posted by stu.gottz

My question is what constitutes cheating?
Is lusting after other people (Jimmy Carter, lust in my heart) cheating?

Is flirting cheating both with and without conscious intent to do anything about it?

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Flirting with an intent to actually lead someone on or have sex with someone, while you are in a committed relationship with a vow against adultery would be cheating..

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Spending time with someone you are attracted to without physical contact cheating.

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If you are not actively pursuing a romantic or sexual interest with that person, fine.. I'm around straight people at work all day that are kinda cute but I would never ask them to cheat on their partners.

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Falling in love with someone but not having sex cheating?

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All of the time people feel loving, they feel angry, they feel happy or sad, nothing wrong with that intrinsically. There are different kinds of love. If the love turns lustful and you act on it when you told your partner you wouldn't - that could be cheating.

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Kissing, if so how much or any kiss?

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If you kiss this person on the cheek, about the same way you would kiss your auntie at a family reunion I don't think that's cheating..again depends on what your partner would allow..

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Masturbating to the fantasy of someone else real or imagined?

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This one is tricky, our thoughts are our own..I certainly have done this. I guess it's really up to what your conscience can bear.

As long as your fantasies don't turn into real physical desires you act on, or psychotic delusions (I have heard of one or two people that just won't let go of a romantic interest) then I guess it would be okay to me personally.

I mean I've had dreams that I certainly didn't prompt and I didn't stop dreaming them, but curiously enough I did think to myself - this is wrong - and start backing out of the dream instead of enjoying it.

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Is it still cheating if you don't orgasm but the other person does?

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I know, this question even confused the President of the United States but sadly yes, if you have the genitals of another person in your mouth or in your hands with the intent to commit a sexual act and your partner didn't agree to that then it could be cheating. Should I make an exception for, "If this is your professional line of work" or "rape"? - now I'm just being crazy..

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Where is the line that gets crossed and makes one thing cheating and another not? And just to keep it interesting is cheating ever justified?

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When you violate the agreement you made with your partner you potentially risk their safety, security or well being..this is contrary to what most loving relationships are about .. trust, caring, honesty...

LGBT run into this issue with honesty all of the time because of the stigma society puts on same sex relationships - no I don't think it's fair - but that is a discussion you need to have with your partner somehow if it bothers you that much.

Cheating plain and simple is the act of lying or using some form of deceit to attain a goal.

Applied to relationships sleeping around isn't cheating, the attempt to hide, cover up or lie about it is. In fact anything done without the knowledge AND implied/implicit approval of ones spouse, SO or boy/girlfriend is cheating.

If you don't get "caught" by your partner you are successfully hiding your cheating but it is deception nonetheless! If there are no implied or discussed ground rules then to proceed without discussion or the knowledge of your partner you are still deceiving them by withholding information.

No matter how much we discuss any of the aspects or depth of cheating...ie.."is eating cheating" etc if deception is applied it is cheating, there is no gray area. JMHO

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Originally Posted by innaminka

Doing something deliberately that you know is outside the parameters of trust you have with another person or organisation.

Is what cheating???
In regard to your list....
Reverse the roles - if the other person in your relationship was doing any of those suggested actions, how would you regard it?????

There's your answer.

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ALL forms of sexual contact, interaction and activity is cheating which involves another person than your regular girl/boyfriend, husband/wife, lover after consenting to being faithful.