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[FONT=verdana][SIZE=3]I'd hear of guys (and even gals) being put on the path of bisexuality this way and I never held it against them; it just is what it is (or was what it was). Even on this site - and perhaps any other sites that exists, there are lot of stories about this and while some folks may still carry a lot of shame in this, oddly, it can be "helpful" to know that if you became bisexual in this way, well, you're not the only one. Without consent? Yeah, pretty fucked up because no one should ever be forced into this... but if you did consent and ya had fun while learning some shit about sex in the process, why be bothered by it?

As parents, we "accept" that our kids might experiment with each other and we do go out of our way to prevent it even though there's no way we can watch them every moment of every day. We even tell ourselves that if we catch them at it, that's when we'll read them the riot act... but you gotta catch them first. I even know my own children experimented with each other; not only did I catch them but when I did, they confessed to it... but I didn't freak out behind it because I expected them to but I did have a very long talk with them about it and a talk that they may or may not have taken to heart. I'll put it like this: I know what they told me and that such experimenting would stop immediately... can't prove any of it.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana][SIZE=3]A lot of the guys I grew up with got started this way and to be probably brutally honest and direct, there were a lot of times when I would witness an older brother having his way with his younger sibling and it was no big deal for it to be happening. Once I went to a friend's house, was told he was in the backyard with his dad and when I went there, oops, there was dad standing there, pants all around his ankles, and my friend sucking that dick with a lot of eagerness. The funny part was his dad saw me and said, "Oh, hi - he'll be with you shortly!" and went back to watching his son blow him until he shot his load.

Later, my friend and I were walking around and he told me that it was pretty much routine for him to be sucking his daddy's dick and he didn't think much of it... and I just nodded my understanding because where we lived, it was pretty routine for such things to be happening. But the thing that stood out to me about this guy is that he wanted to suck his daddy's dick and insisted that he was never forced, coerced, or co-opted into doing it.

"It's fun," he said once we got to where we decided to go so we could suck each other's dick and do some fucking.

Even for me, it was no big deal; my little brother wanted me to do it him so, sure, why not, even though we both knew that if we ever got caught or ratted out, all holy hell would be turned loose. The first pussy I ever ate was my sister's; our father told me to never do that, I mentioned it to her and she happily said, "Let's find out why!" Sure, about as wrong as it gets but also made a lot of sense and even like she told me right before the first time I fucked her, "If I can't trust you, who can I trust?"

Is it shameful? Of course it is; our society has made sure of that over many generations and I used to joke that if you read the bible and the Book of Genesis, first there was Adam, then Eve; they got kicked out of the garden (and the now-shamed Bill Cosby had a hilarious routine about that) and along comes Cain and Able and, well, we know how that turned out for Able. Genesis then goes on to a long list of who begat whom... but the question I'd ask (and get in trouble for) was where did all those other people come from if the only woman alive was Eve? The bible doesn't mention God creating any other women and hitting them with the "go ye forth and multiply" edict... so where did the other people come from to do all this begetting?

I looked at the science of DNA and biology, which proves that despite our differences, we're all really "related" and more than we're willing to believe. Now, I'm not saying that any of this is an excuse but it does stand out that this human behavior was deliberately vilified and prohibited; family members were doing each other and it just had to be stopped and especially M2M interactions since two guys sexing each other wasn't making any babies.

Even I figured out that fucking my sister (and later, my step-sister) would only be a very bad thing if I fucked up and knocked one of them up; otherwise, where's the real harm and more so when everyone agreed that it would be a fun and necessary thing to do?[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana][SIZE=3]I was bored silly and decided to open my Quora app and read some of the anonymous secrets people were posting that they'd not post under their name and a lot of it was pretty funny and maybe even figments of the writer's imagination. I saw a lot of incest related stories - guys doing their sister, sisters doing their brother and, at least to me, all pretty typical in that these things do happen even though we pretend that they don't.

One such posting was from a guy who got "seduced" by his uncle; another appeared where a guy's dad was laying the pipe to them regularly and I started to see other such entries where a brother or cousin was in the mix to both delight them with this forbidden way to have sex and, as a side effect, had some of them wondering if they were really gay or admitting that while they enjoyed it, the guilt of it still lingers in their minds.

A lot of guys here have graciously shared their beginnings that included the much-forbidden incest and while it can certainly make a guy feel some kind of way to not only break one taboo but two of them, it happens; it's always happened, it's happening somewhere in the world right now, and it will continue to happen. The thing that always caught my attention about this is that for something to be so forbidden, wow, it sure happens a lot and to the point that for many bi guys, it's almost a rite of passage for a family member to introduce them to sex and not just out of "convenience" but perhaps more along the lines that it's better the devil you know than the one you don't right along with a thing about trust; if you can't trust your brother, cousin, dad, or uncle, who can you trust?

Sure, sometimes that trust gets betrayed and some guys forced or coerced into compliance; sadly, that happens all too often as well but in the decades that I've been looking at this specific "entry point" for bi guys, some guys might have started out having an objection to this "heinous" thing, felt some kind of way about being backed into a corner and made to comply but, hmm, ya know, this ain't really that bad of a thing, I mean, other than it not supposed to be happening at all.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT]Sometimes, a bro-job isn't about just being horny and wanting to take care of that immediately if not sooner; sometimes, it is an act of kindness and mercy if you do, in fact, know what that feels like; it really does, at times, become a question of, "What would you do to help a friend in dire need of release?"
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From the "guys can be hilarious" department, I've been hanging out with a guy and have heard him change the subject of whatever we were talking about by saying, "Damn... my nuts are starting to hurt!" In my mind, that's code for, "You know, if you were to give me a blow job, I'd be okay with that." Depending on the guy - and if his nuts are really hurting and with severity (and sometimes, his balls are just fine, as it turns out) - I'd at least think about offering a bro-job if I determine his case of blue balls is valid but if he's just being clumsy about wanting me to suck his dick, sure, I'll stand or sit there and watch him fake an extreme case of blue balls because if nothing else, it'll be entertaining.

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[FONT=verdana]I even told a guy once, after a stellar performance, "I'll send you an Oscar later... but if you wanted me to suck you off, why didn't you just ask?"

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[FONT=verdana]"You might have said no," he replied, looking all cheesy.

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[FONT=verdana]"I might have said yes," I said.

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[FONT=verdana]"Um, would you?" he asked.

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[FONT=verdana]And I did... because his Oscar winning performance was really pretty good if I might say so myself and had to be rewarded. I also found out that he was pretty good at sucking dick, too, something I hadn't known about him before his award-winning acting.

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[FONT=verdana]"Next time, just ask," I said after we drained each other dry. He at least had the good sense to look embarrassed after trying to bullshit me and failing.

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[FONT=verdana]Even if you're an avid cock sucker like I am, you don't just jump in there and do something about the other guy's painful predicament; you have to do some triage and assess the situation, take the guy having this insane pain into consideration and determine if easing his pain is worth him finding out something about you that, under ordinary circumstance, you'd rather not let a whole lot of people know.

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[FONT=verdana]But how far would you go to help a friend who's clearly suffering from a major attack of blue balls? Will it fix itself? Eh, sometimes it does but even in my blue ball moments, fuck - that pain just keeps getting worse the longer you let it go unattended. To my "shame" and perhaps "dishonor," I have sat or stood and watched guys suffer with this and it doesn't feel good to do this when I know I can help him manually or orally... but I also know that helping him would create an even bigger problem than his poor nuts being all painfully swollen. We're friends... just not that close as friends, sorry about that - hope you get that taken care of soon.

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[FONT=verdana]A bro-job can happen due to being seriously horny; under extreme emotional distress and duress, and even when one is under the influence of whatever hair of the dog that bit them... but sometimes, they can happen because the pain of blue balls is just too much to deal with and waiting any longer than you want to in order to make that pain go away just ain't gonna work.

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[FONT=verdana]What would you do?[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][FONT=verdana]I don't think I could really put a number to the times I'd come to a guy's aid when his balls were blue but, sure, I wouldn't let a guy suffer with this even if we weren't really friends. I was at the YMCA one day, fresh out of the pool after doing a mile of laps (25 laps, if you're wondering) when a guy who was either getting undressed for something - or getting redressed - suddenly doubled over, groaning in pain and holding his nuts as if some invisible person had just hauled off and punted his balls. I knew immediately what was wrong; homey was sweating profusely, his face flushed a really odd red-purple color and of course I asked him if he as okay even though I knew, from experience, what was wrong with him.

[/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]His eyes were wild-looking; sweat was pouring down his face like he was in the shower and his whole body was shaking from the painful intensity. There wasn't anyone else in the locker room so I went over to him and took a peek in his underwear and, sure enough, his balls were a pretty shade of blue.

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]"I can fix that," I said gently as I pulled his underwear down and slurped his cock into my mouth and as he vainly tried to ask me, I think, what the hell was I doing. After a few and well-placed and time deep sucks, he unloaded in my mouth and like his pipes had been clogged up for a month - boy, did he ever put a lot of sperm in my mouth and so much I almost couldn't keep up with it!

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]I looked up at him as his dick was slowing some really intense pumping; his color was better, he wasn't sweating as much and, as I released him, I took a peek at his nuts and they were back to being a healthy, pinkish color. I stood up and pulled his underwear back up - and just in time as some guys were coming into the locker room. The guy I had "rescued" was still kinda shaky, looking a bit dazed as he followed me back to where my locker was and whispered both his thanks as well as his... consternation over how he got relieved of a major case of blue balls because, hey, he wasn't [I]that[/I] kind of guy.

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]I just looked at him and in a way that asked him, "Would you have rather kept dealing with that pain?" I guess he interpreted my look precisely, looked a bit sheepish, and said, "Thanks, man - I owe you one!" before going back to his locker.

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]Just one of many examples of how some bro-jobs happen. You feel that ache beginning and I don't know which is worse - having a bad case of blue balls or having a toothache and while you can't always get some seriously and immediate pain relief from a toothache, to make a case of very painful blue balls go away, you need to bust a nut and the sooner, the better. If you're alone, it's time to choke the daylights out of the chicken; if you have a your lady nearby - and if she's willing to help you - screw her or, if she's of a mind to, get her to blow you if, you know, she even cares that you're experiencing that kind of excruciating, mind-numbing pain.

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]If you're with your bro and you think the two of you are really good friends, sure, you can whip it out in front of him (and provided you're not in some public place, of course), apologize for giving him something he can't un-see, and get yourself off... or you can brave asking him to get you off since there are times when this comes on so suddenly and painfully you can't help yourself. If he's that good of a friend, maybe he helps you out... or leaves you to suffer with it but, still, it's one of those situations where a bro-job is called for and one that, if you were previously not of a mind to be sucking some dude's dick, you'd sure as hell make an exception if he came to your aid and played with your dick so you could cum and get those pipes cleared out.

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]Sometimes, just saying, "Thanks, man - ya saved my ass!" ain't good enough or doesn't really express your profound gratitude. I've aided in blue ball relief and have told the other guy that his thanks is thanks enough and no reciprocation is needed or required... which hasn't stopped some guys from wanting to express their gratitude in a similar way... and, a few times, it would be their first experience with sucking cock either way.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]Because you'd do anything to make your nuts stop hurting. I've seen and heard of guys curling up in the fetal position and crying like babies; I've seen this pain hit guys so hard and fast, they sometimes vomit or they drop as if poleaxed, their legs just refusing to hold them up and now it's decision time: Do you do the one thing you know will ease his horrific pain... or do you just stand there and watch him suffer and when you probably know what he's feeling?

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]At the very least, you offer some relief and if he accepts it, fine but if he doesn't, well, hmm, okay - at least I offered and maybe the next time you have this happen and we're together, you might reconsider... provided you make it through the terrible pain this time.

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[FONT=verdana][SIZE=3]I originally wrote this on my WordPress blog but wanted to share it here.

[/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]The pain was incredible and appeared out of nowhere; one moment, my friend and I were talking about what kind of mischief we could get into on this fine, summer day... and the next, wow, jeez, this really hurts - why is it hurting down there?

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]My friend looks at me, alarm on his face and he can see the pained and confused look on my face and starts asking me what's wrong; this... whatever it is, hurts so much I can't talk - it's taking every ounce of my will to keep breathing and not start trying. He asked me where it hurt and, unable to speak, grab my crotch - gently because, as I just found out, moving makes it hurt even more.

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]"Oh, okay," he says before yanking down my shorts and underwear, getting on his knees, and sucking my dick into his mouth. The pain was getting worse but, wait, is it easing up some? I'm standing there with my friend blowing me as if my life depended on it... and it sure as hell felt like it. It started to feel good, slowly but surely replacing the indescribable pain in my groin; I could breathe again, still couldn't form words outside of my mind and just as I felt my body relaxing, one last sharp spike of pain hit me, only to be quickly replaced by that really good but weird feeling of shooting my stuff.

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]The pain was gone. For a moment, I wondered if it had even been real as my friend stood up, licking his lips and smiling as if he'd just done something miraculous and I supposed that he did.

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]"You had blue balls," he said, reaching down and cupping my balls. "You feeling better now?"

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]"Yeah," I said with a puzzled look on my face. I know what my balls are but given my complexion, uh, how can they turn blue?

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]"Good. You just needed to shoot some stuff," he said wisely - and wisely for a guy who was only a month older than I was. "Hmm... my balls kinda hurt now..."

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]I was more than happy to make his balls stop hurting - and if they were really hurting - like he made mine stop hurting and he seemed to be just as grateful as I had been.

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]Blue balls. The one thing that can happen to a guy that feels as bad - or worse - than getting whacked in the nuts. Kinda in my defense, I'd heard older guys talking about blue balls and how they seemed to turn blue if they wanted to get some nookie but that didn't happen. I remembered how all the guys who knew about this would grimace and, yeah, just like they all got kicked in the nads - then start laughing about it. My first experience with this... condition, when it hit me, totally disconnected things in my head - acute pain will do that fairly easily. Now, I can say that I didn't feel like I needed to do the nasty before that incredible pain landed on me like a freight train but what my friend did - an early version of a bro job - was what the "doctor" ordered.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]I investigated this blue balls thing; think of it as "backed up pipes" for simplicity's sake and the reason they call it blue balls is because when this... backup of blood happens to white guys, wow, their balls really turn an interesting blue color.

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]Who knew? Later, I learned that one can relieve a case of blue balls - and one that usually happens when one gets sexually excited and, um, nothing happens - by jerking off to clean the pipes out (and if you're wondering how that plumbing phrase made into the sexual lexicon) but since that was supposed to make you go blind and grow hair on the palms of your hand, well, okay - if you were hanging out with a male friend and a case of blue balls was upon you, for immediate and welcome relief - and if you can - ask the guy with you if he would help you.

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]Now, um, sometimes, if you did ask him for help and he wasn't of a mind to assist you, he'd just look at you with sympathy and pretty much tell you that you're on your own and good luck with that. But, yeah, sometimes the guy you're with has had some experience with blue balls, knows how painful it is and it's just an act of mercy to get you somewhere private and give you an "emergency blow job" to ease your pain... and more so if he knows that you'd do the same for him, you know, being good friends and all that.

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[SIZE=3][FONT=verdana][/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=verdana]Wasn't a big deal, didn't mean you were gay or anything like that but among friends, just an act of kindness and mercy... and provided ya didn't tell anyone how you got rid of your case of blue balls. Now, if you were hanging out with him again and managed to have another painful attack of blue balls, maybe he helps, maybe he doesn't and that all depends on how he felt about helping you that first time and, um, how you may have shown your gratitude for his timely aid when you, er, um, made sure that he wouldn't come down with a badly aching pair of balls.

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When my wife and I opened our marriage up to others the experience has been nothing short of amazing. Sharing our bodies with others is something we both really get into. Last weekend we had the grandkids over so no play time last weekend. Yesterday she text me and wanted to know if I could call my buddies for some Friday night fun, she said her pussy was sloppy wet and needed attention. She is home officed and often works wearing only a T-shirt and uses her dildo a lot throughout the day. At 57 years old her sexual appetite is incredible, almost to the point of being scary. At 5’8 and 110 lbs I am always amazed at how she absorbes big dicks but she handles them with no problem.

Calling my buds up and asked them them if they could come over took no convincing, all said yes, what was sexy as all hell was 2 of them had beaten me home and when I walked in the door she was pleasuring both of them, still waiting on the last one to arrive I made drinks for us all when the door bell rang and the last one was there. These men are guys who we play with from time to time so getting naked and busy is not a problem, no one is shy and at least here we can be who we are.

She was all all worked up seeing 5 big cocks ready to abuse her, that she couldn’t wait to milk at least one. Unfortunately I was the 1st to lose it, as she swallowed every drop, Watching them pound her hard and she begging for more was such a turn on and so I positioned myself so I could lick her clit and their balls as they took turns ramming her.

When Al stuck his massive fat cock inn her she bucked like a horse as her cum soaked pussy got stretched by his massive size Al has the biggest dick I have ever seen in person and having front row seats to his fucking her and sucking his balls as he bottomed out his cock in her she moaned loudly and squirted so hard I thought at 1st I was going to drown. With each thrust cum would leak from her and I was there to taste every drop.

After her gangbang every one left except My regular bud as he spent the night as his wife was out of town and he is just like me, that smell of cum soaked pussy makes him hard and he fell asleep with his head on her pussy and we awoke to some morning fun. Damn it she is a good woman.

[FONT=verdana][SIZE=3]There probably isn't a guy who has turned to men for blow jobs who haven't asked themselves - and a woman - this question... and the answer is complicated and confusing. Sometimes, it's not about a decrease in her desire for sex; it's usually a chore she'd rather not be bothered with because (and in no particular order):

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[LIST=1][*]It doesn't do a thing for her to be sucking on your dick[*]It takes too long[*]Dealing with the "mess" should it show up if she doesn't swallow... and "that taste" if she does.[*]If she sucks you off - but she wants to be screwed - you're gonna be out of action for a bit of time[*]Sucking a guy off makes them feel like a whore.[*]She's had bad experiences doing this, beginning with the guy who told her, "I won't cum in your mouth!" - and that's exactly what he did, accidentally or purposely.[*]She's got better things to do.[/LIST]

[FONT=verdana]In a lot of situations, this doesn't make sense given that, when you first meet a woman and you decide to stick it out with each other, she's sucking your dick like it's her favorite thing to do of all time and maybe even sucking you off - and doing it just to be doing it. But as time moves on, you notice that even when you have sex with her, eh, she's not giving you head even when you're spending a lot of time with your head between her legs.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]Women know two real-deal things about us: We love to fuck and we love getting our dick sucked and finished like that so a woman knows that if she does these two things - and she's looking for a man in her life - he's gonna be hers the more she fucks him and sucks him off. Once she has him, mission accomplished and, as such, no need to keep doing all of that.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]Obviously, you're gonna notice this; maybe you say something to her right then and then to find out what's up, maybe you shrug it off as just her being in one of her moods... but you notice that after you eat her silly, she's telling you to get it in her which you're more than happy to do... but not so happy that she didn't, at the least, spend a little time sucking on your dick. Then comes the hard part.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]You ask her about it... and it's the beginning a very long line of excuses, beginning with various versions of her not feeling like it and graduating to you being the reason she's not doing it which will also include a whole bunch of shit that's been present all along and didn't seem to make a difference to her when you first hooked up with each other. She'll also invoke "girl things" and things that most guys don't know shit about and if they don't know, they can't argue against them. Oh, and that very much includes her saying, "I don't know!" when, truth is, she does know so her answer is really "code" for, "I know why but I'm not gonna tell you."[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]Women know something else, too, and something that to us doesn't make a lot of sense: They know if they don't blow us, at some point, we're gonna start thinking about getting someone else to do it and that includes fucking, too. Women worry about us cheating on them... yet, they do at least one thing to almost guarantee that her man is gonna think about doing it and if the problem doesn't get resolved, well, I'm sure you can guess what's gonna happen.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]You can sit down with her and talk about this; you can present an elegant and eloquent arguments as to why she should get back to doing this... and you can, in fact, get her to agree with every point you make; but once she's made up her mind that she's not gonna do it, she's not gonna change her mind and even if you impress upon her the negative effects this will have on the relationship and effects that will put the relationship in jeopardy.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]Maybe she sees the writing on the wall and since no woman likes being dumped, she just might go back to giving your dick some token sucks; she might even "go back to the beginning" and just suck you off just to be doing it. You're back to being happy but as time slips by, you're right back to not getting your dick sucked at all. I'm not gonna say that all guys would run out and get blown by someone else; even though this is a major issue, some guys just aren't going to cheat or even leave her.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]But some guys will do just that. Maybe it's another woman... and maybe there's something about the "rumor" that men suck cock as a matter of course and do it better than women ever could. We know, however, that if we did either thing and get caught, bye-bye relationship and, oh, yeah, it's all your fault when, the truth is, sure, you cheated on her... but if she had been sucking your dick more and even getting you off like that - and as she did when she sank her hooks into you - then y'all wouldn't be having this discussion and on the verge of breaking up.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]Ask a woman this: If you don't do it, who's supposed to? - and then pay attention to her answer which, predictably, will be some version of, "Nobody's supposed to!" Does she know that it's part and parcel of having and enjoying sex with each other? Yep, she sure does... but don't be surprised when she hits you with, "Why does everything have to be about you?" or tells you that you wouldn't understand what's going on with her... but won't really explain what that might be or, worse, tries to bullshit you with stuff that even the dumbest guy in the world wouldn't believe. You can even - and unnecessarily so - point out to her how this is affecting the relationship in some very bad ways and she'll tell you that she knows that it is... and won't do a damned thing to prevent that from happening.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana]And, other than cheating on her or packing your shit and leaving, there isn't a damned thing you can do about it. There's nothing you can say or do that will change her mind; she'd rather accept the risk that you're on the verge of leaving her and if you cheat, well, you just gave her an out and reason to leave you, ya cheating bastard!

The fucked up part is that you could understand these things I've told you - and understand them as well as I do - and it changes nothing as far as she's concerned. You can promise and deliver unto her the stars and the moon... and she's not sucking your dick even if she had to in order to save her life.

Now, should you do what some guys have done - go find a guy who'd give their left nut to suck your dick and gulp down your spunk - and she finds out about it and confronts you, you can, once more, give her the most eloquent and elegant reasons why you did what you did... and the first thing out of her mouth will most likely be, "What about me and my feelings?" This is the part where you look at her and start shaking your head, right? Does she not understand that if she'd been doing this all along, there would have been no need for you to get some dude to do it? The answer is, yes - she does know this... but by turning this around on you, it suits her purposes to now the be victim instead of acknowledging that if there's a victim in this, that would be you... and she's the one who both victimized you and caused you to take this action.

Confused? Baffled? Welcome to the club. It's a lose/lose situation.[/FONT][/SIZE]