pride in being bisexual ?

[Long Duck Dong]

lol I promise to behave in this thread..... cos I do have a valid question that I am struggling with a lil

bisexual pride... gay pride ....les pride.....yeah be proud of who you are.....

but I am curious... why do we need the parades .... let me rephrase that.... who do we call it bi pride.... or in nz the gay les mardi gras and the big gay out ( based around the big day old music festival )..... why do we need to mention that its sexuality orientated......

what is wrong with a non sexuality specific name.... when we know that some people in the LGBT community have a adverse to some aspects of sexuality ( bi phobia I suppose is one term )

is it that people think that that having sexuality in the name would encourage more sexuality defined people to attend..... or dissuade people that may be sexuality phobic from going near it.....

I guess I am thinking along the lines that we can be proud of who we are... but parades to say we are LGBT ??? can we celebrate who we are at a parade without needing to have sexuality specific events.....

I am looking at it from the same angle as lets have a blind person parade.... or a vertical challenged parade... but we view them as disorders .....and yet, they have pride in themselves as people too..... why should they not be proud.......

our call to fame is that we can desire both sexes....and we are pride of that.... but.... I am stuck on the fact that we are actually celebrate what we do in the bedroom........ and want to show the world we are proud that we have sex.....

[rissababynta]

I personally don't really find pride in something that is out of my control. I find pride in things I earn.

I find pride in working hard with my schoolwork and doing well. I find pride when I make a beautiful craft that took me months to work on.

But even then, I don't flaunt it all about. I wish I had a parade for some of my counted cross stitches though :-(

Anyway, now that I've gone off about this crap haha.

[Realist]

I agree. I am proud that I've gotten an education, earned a living, built a couple of my own homes, have had some lovely friends and lovers. I've learned how to survive and thrive in a world that is increasingly more difficult to live in. I am proud that I am loved and love in return. But, my sexuality is mine alone to share with a selected few, with whom I choose to revel it. I feel no need to get on a bandwagon and shout it to the masses that I have loved folks of both genders. My bisexuality is as much a part of me as my eye color and skin....we don't celebrate that, do we?

That being said, if anyone wants to get on a bandwagon and dramatically proclaim their interests, political leanings, or sexual persuasion, have at it! Just don't expect me to follow suit. I'm happy with the way things are in my life and I'm not going to change!

[Lonewolf76]

I agree. I am proud that I've gotten an education, earned a living, built a couple of my own homes, have had some lovely friends and lovers. I've learned how to survive and thrive in a world that is increasingly more difficult to live in. I am proud that I am loved and love in return. But, my sexuality is mine alone to share with a selected few, with whom I choose to revel it. I feel no need to get on a bandwagon and shout it to the masses that I have loved folks of both genders. My bisexuality is as much a part of me as my eye color and skin....we don't celebrate that, do we?

That being said, if anyone wants to get on a bandwagon and dramatically proclaim their interests, political leanings, or sexual persuasion, have at it! Just don't expect me to follow suit. I'm happy with the way things are in my life and I'm not going to change!

Ok - my :2cents: : I couldn't agree with Realist & Rissa More. I am very proud of my life achievements, my close friendships, my children etc. But look as hard as might, I just can't seem to find any city that holds a Caucasian, Male, over 50, slightly pudgy, balding, English, French, Irish, Cherokee, warped sense of humor, 5',9", Loves steak and potatoes pride day/parade. I hope that brought a chuckle.... The point is LDD is right - to have a parade flaunting our sexuality is over the top. Why can't we just be proud of who we are FOR ALL THE REASONS that make us who we are and leave it at that without flaunting it in everyones faces. In all candor and honesty - the straight folk don't have a "Heterosexual Pride Parade". Let's put our energies where its more useful. Again just my :2cents:. And Ducky - Great observation! Wolfie.

[M. Wolfe]

I'd probably say that I am proud but not greatly proud. Instead I feel very lucky. When I explained it to my friends, I approached it from a more philosophical perspective saying that when you weigh it up, liking both is better than liking either and considering that of the three main sexual orientations, bisexuality is the rarest, well I must be pretty damned lucky.

:flag2:

[Doggiestyle]

I think that the "Gay Pride" came out of the 1969 Stonewall Incident. Cause for many a years before then the gay folks all over the USA has had to live with harrasment from the cops, church, rednecks, and society in general. Then came the Stonewall Incident in June of 69 where the gay folks said that they were tired of bein "slapped around" and thought of as lower class citizens. They said then,

Yeah were queer, so what? Were your neighbors, co-workers, behind & in front of you in the checkout lines ETC. Were everwhere and were here to stay. So you better get used to it. Cause thats the way we are, and were "PROUD" of it. :soapbox:

Actually the gay pride thing really started before that, but the 69 Stonewall Incident really got it going big to the point it is today.

You can't really blame the Gay Folks for feeling that way. After all they were being mistreated so badly, and I really don't blame anybody for standing up for themselves, cause sometimes you have to.

So thats my understanding of what "Gay Pride" is all about. So having said that, I must agree what the previous post-s said about bein gay (or in this case about half gay). Being a bisexual is just part of who I am, and not something that I bragg about or hide from. I also agree to what others say that they are more "proud" of themselves for their life-long achievements and goals attained. So, my opinion is that being a bisexual (or totally gay) is not a goal. It is a character.

Thats my :2cents: worth. Your friend, Doggie........:doggie:.........:bipride:

[Intimate_Light]

I concur with those who say it's not a pride issue even though I understand the whole gay pride thing and its history, such as Stonewall.

I'm likewise not someone who parades bi-leanings, it's a very private matter: only a couple of people in my real/non-cyber life know I'm bi. Besides, it's also only in the last few years that this has begun to emerge consciously.

I'm a late bloomin' bi, and so still more or less closeted.
But I'm certainly not ashamed of it, either.

[Long Duck Dong]

lol nice answers.... lol

actually i had a deep reasoning for posting this.... but this one is a personal one...and I will share it, but its not directed at anybody other than me... and helps to share my issue with the original post

my bisexuality can lead me to make decisions that can lead to heart ache and heart break, lies, deceit, adulatory, infidelity....etc..... and I struggle with the fact that knowing that I can as a bisexual ( and any other sexuality ) be a unfaithful / dishonest person cos of my sex drive....and the impact on my relationship and my partner....

and i kinda look at myself in the mirror and then bi pride parades... and realise that I have a partner.... to walk in that parade for me, is to me, to be saying that I am pride of the fact, that my partner can not fully satisfy me.... that I need to sleep with other people.... and I am bisexual and proud of that fact.......

remember this is a personal look in the mirror at a issue I am struggling with in myself.... and personally, it makes me ashamed to be bisexual, when I know in myself, that my partner may never be enuf for me....and when I look her in the eyes and say I love her.. that in truth I am saying I love you.... but I have the urge to sleep around because of who I am..... and I can remain faithful... but I can not remove or stop the desire....

[TwylaTwobits]

LDD, I love you. That's the bottom line.

I have never wanted you to change a thing about yourself except at the points in time I think you are just being an ass instead of dystemic :) You are who you are and I love you. Yes, I have reservations that I might not be able to satisfy all of your needs, but it will be fun trying.

You have had my heart for quite a long time and I am not ashamed to stand in front of the world and proclaim my love for you. Cara ch' 'm blaidd.


You are bisexual, you can't change it, I am straight, I won't change it. But we do know how to compromise and go from there.

[bityme]

lol nice answers.... lol

actually i had a deep reasoning for posting this.... but this one is a personal one...and I will share it, but its not directed at anybody other than me... and helps to share my issue with the original post

my bisexuality can lead me to make decisions that can lead to heart ache and heart break, lies, deceit, adulatory, infidelity....etc..... and I struggle with the fact that knowing that I can as a bisexual ( and any other sexuality ) be a unfaithful / dishonest person cos of my sex drive....and the impact on my relationship and my partner....

and i kinda look at myself in the mirror and then bi pride parades... and realise that I have a partner.... to walk in that parade for me, is to me, to be saying that I am pride of the fact, that my partner can not fully satisfy me.... that I need to sleep with other people.... and I am bisexual and proud of that fact.......

remember this is a personal look in the mirror at a issue I am struggling with in myself.... and personally, it makes me ashamed to be bisexual, when I know in myself, that my partner may never be enuf for me....and when I look her in the eyes and say I love her.. that in truth I am saying I love you.... but I have the urge to sleep around because of who I am..... and I can remain faithful... but I can not remove or stop the desire....

I think that you have articulated a feeling that everyone in a relationship has had at one time or another. It is not exclusive to the bisexual community. With us, however, it seems to target the sexual aspect of the relationship more than others.

The basic problem: Why do I feel that my partner is not capable of satisfying all of my needs? Why can't I be satisfied with them and suppress my desire for more?

We often hear the phrase "My partner completes me." But this has got to be the worst attitude there is from a psychological point of view. What it really says is that, as a person, I am incomplete. We have to reject this way of thinking.

As an individual, I learned long ago that I am complete. I like myself. I do not need another person to make me a human being. I can function as a solitary individual and feel good about it.

On the other hand, I enjoy the company of others. My experiences with others have broadened my understanding, provided sources of joy, excitement, conflict, and upon their loss, grief. Yet those same experiences never completed me. I was complete already.

The unique thing is that the human condition allows us to have all sorts of relationships with all sorts of people at the same time. Most often those with whom we have a relationship compliment us. They allow us to extend our physical and emotional reach beyond ourselves. But no one ever seems to provide that extension for each and every thought, desire, or yearning that we have.

We have, however, often blindly accepted the idea that one person, a mate, must be the one to provide our every physical and emotional need. We all know that it doesn't work and we decry the fact that it does not. But we only admit that it doesn't work after we have suppressed needs or desires for far too long a period of time. (Most often, we see this as the filing of divorce papers.)

In the ancient world, society recognized, condoned, and encouraged plural relationships. Even same-sex marriage was commonplace until outlawed jointly by the Christian Roman Emperors of the Western and Eastern Empires in 324 A.D. Today, we have to deal with the institutionalized idea that a relationship should involve only two people.

Can one person ever compliment each and every aspect of our being? Does saying "I'll commit myself to you" really mean that "from now on I will not need any other human being to compliment me, to assist me in fulfilling hopes, dreams, and desires?" We know that they are not the same. What we do, however, is perpetuate the idea that an undefinable state that we call "love" only exists when we have a relationship with a single person. I do not think that attitude has ever worked.

I have had two wives, one for 18 years and one for 20 years. I lost them both to cancer. I loved them both dearly, but I was already complete when I met the first one. I already knew I was bisexual. I knew that they would not be able to satisfy all of my physical needs, and I told them so, before making any commitments. They accepted me for who I was. If they had not, the relationships would never have gone forward.

In my 38 years of marriage, was there ever any infidelity? Absolutely not. Did I ever satisfy my desire for sex with men? Often. But my relationships with men never altered my commitment to my wives. They merely satisfied my yearning for male, physical contact which was more than normal for the rest of society.

I am neither proud nor ashamed of being bisexual. I just am bisexual. It is part of what I consider to be my physical make-up. The "physical me" does not make commitments to others, the "emotional me" can and does make commitments to others. I have just never allowed the "emotional me" to decide that an aspect of the "physical me" does not exist or can be suppressed without any consequences to my well being.

I am sorry if this is long and rambling. I am merely describing how I feel and what has worked for me. I am not saying it will work for others. It is just that my heart goes out to those who have grappled with conventional attitudes of fidelity, adultery, etc. Especially when our society does an abysmal job at separating the physical from the emotional. It tries to pigeon-hole everyone into the same mold and tell us "this is the way you are supposed to be." But truthfully, as thinking beings, we have the ability to negotiate the parameters of our commitment in each of our relationships rather than blindly accepting some standard definition that more often than not cripples us in some way. (Witness a divorce rate in my state, California, in excess of 50%) There is obviously something wrong with the all-encompassing way use the term "love."

[MarieDelta]

At one time it was illegal to express homosexual feelings, transgender/transexual feelings and bisexual feelings. It is not now, mostly due to the fact that our fore-fathers and mothers stood up and said, "Enough! I will not be ashamed of who I am!" Because it is far too easy to say that.

These feelings we have they are very private feelings, not something every person experiences and that makes us different from a very early age. It makes us a loner in a crowd that only accepts the norm. Many of us remember being called by names by the schoolyard bullies.

Being proud of who we are is/was the only way to shut them up.

They say "Queer! Fag! Sissy!" and the only answer that really works is to say "Yeah, so what? I am (GLBT), and I am proud of that fact."

Being out isnt for everyone, people come from all sorts of cicumstances.

But I do think those of us who can, should be. To give to the those who follow. To show that yes, we are human and yes, while we may have failings being ourself isnt a something that we are ashamed of.

[Long Duck Dong]

I accept what you are saying marie... but to say that you are pride to be bi...is one thing... to say that you are pride of what bisexuality actually means.... is another

let me ask this.... and i have no intention of being offence or trying to offend

you go to a trans person pride parade...and you stand up and you say you are proud to be a trans person....but what are you saying you are proud of.....

are you proud to be a person that embraced whom they are, for who they are ...and that is marie delta.... or are you saying that you are pride to be a woman that was once a man and that struggles with the issues and aspects of being a transgender person... the hormone treatments, the mental and emotional anxiety, the fustration of being in the body you are...the body that is a shell of the true marie delta inside...

I will be honest... I could not stand in a bisexual pride parade and say i am proud to be bi...when I know I am saying that I am proud to be a person that struggles to settle down, that my body requires sex and I can not have that with just one person and enjoy that close feeling of togetherness....that I can easily be deceitful and dishonest to my partner in order to deal with cravings I have....that being bisexual is about dual gender attraction...
desires, wants and needs that can create conflict in a person that just wants to settle down and can't...cos i am bisexual......that can end a beautiful relationship / marriage because I am asking somebody to be a part of something I struggle with and that they may not be able to handle themselves.....
or to put it more simply, I just can't be so proud of the fact that I have cocks put put in me and I slip my cock in others.... that I would walk down the road in a parade.... cos to me..... its not a celebration of things, not a olympics medal etc etc.... but simply sex......

again... its part of a deeper issue I am struggling with in myself....that has bee triggered by a relationship.... and thats the simple thing... that I do not wish to be bisexual ... I just wanna settle down with one person... not be tortured by desires...and I do not want my partner to feel that the only way I could settle, is for us to play musical orgies.... cos thats actually gonna screw me up more, if that happened......

so when i look at a bi pride parade... and then in the mirror... there is no way in hell I can be proud of being bisexual

[Vikkster230]

Maybe I'm being a little naive, but I think bi is about feeling for both sexes equally. Although some might think it's just about the sex and taboo about it. For me it's bringing into a sense of balance of both types of energies both feminine and masculine. Someone who is hetero or gay could be in that mode of being just with someone, waiting for something better comes along...

[MarieDelta]

Ok if you cant find pride in being yourself how about cellebrating the Bisexual heros that brought us the liberty to be ourselves and NOT be persecuted.

Not neccessarilly just those who fought at Stonewall (which is what Pride cellebrates & why its in June) But those and others (like Harvey Milk) "who have fought the government to make right." (in the words of Ani DiFranco - who is Bisexual, btw)

If you feel that its idiotic to cellebrate the fact that you are allowed to be yourself, then cellebrate the fact that those who went before you struggled and won rights that (even today) arent enjoyed everywhere.

For example, did you know that SRS is unlawful in India? Being Bi (or gay/lesbian) is unlawful in almost any Muslim Country. In many places being GLBT is stigmatized.

So you are struggling with your own personal issues, which, in my opinion, have nothing to do with you being bisexual. Because many people experience these same issues without ever being Bisexual. That doesnt have to effect your self pride.

[rissababynta]

Ok if you cant find pride in being yourself how about cellebrating the Bisexual heros that brought us the liberty to be ourselves and NOT be persecuted.

Not neccessarilly just those who fought at Stonewall (which is what Pride cellebrates & why its in June) But those and others (like Harvey Milk) "who have fought the government to make right." (in the words of Ani DiFranco - who is Bisexual, btw)

If you feel that its idiotic to cellebrate the fact that you are allowed to be yourself, then cellebrate the fact that those who went before you struggled and won rights that (even today) arent enjoyed everywhere.

For example, did you know that SRS is unlawful in India? Being Bi (or gay/lesbian) is unlawful in almost any Muslim Country. In many places being GLBT is stigmatized.

So you are struggling with your own personal issues, which, in my opinion, have nothing to do with you being bisexual. Because many people experience these same issues without ever being Bisexual. That doesnt have to effect your self pride.

Hell yeah I can be proud of those who have faught for others.

[evilpanda]

the purpose of pride parades and protest marches is to show strength in numbers. it's easier to hate queers when you think there are just a handful of us giving handjobs in back alleys. but to see a huge slice of the population from all walks of life shows that we are everywhere and in huge numbers.

[PansexualGuy]

I heard this argument a dozen times. People always say the same thing.
yes yes we all know that sexuality isnt something to be proud of, instead you've proud of the money you make or the essay you wrote
uh huh
there's no pride into being a woman either.
or a black person.

why is it that you think we do it?
its not for "us" ,the people that don't need it.
but for the people who feel ashmed.
I don't feel proud to be bisexual, but that's because
im passed that stage.
I used to be ashamed.
It's funny how a little thing like
"BI PRIDE"
can make all the difference of how i felt before
and how i feel now.
That's why i never stop saying it =P
Sure, I don't need it now. But other people still do.
Especially those in the younger generations.
How about those deep ashamed in the closet?
from all that homophobia and biphobia.....
We are fighting for OUR visibility with these words
and to cancel out any ashamed feelings other hidden
bisexual people might have.
Actually this goes to the whole LGBT pride thing....

blind person parade? vertical challenged parade?
umm i don't recall people making them feel ashmed for anything LOL
but if they want to, they can throw a parade i mean nobody is
stopping them.

I guess everyone can have their own opinion but I feel people
think of the term "Bi Pride" too literally and often think of themselves.
You may not need it, but how about the others who are still
struggling?
Like I said, Bi Pride is only for visiblity and to cancel out
ashamed feelings a bisexual person may have.
It doesnt actually mean have pride in who you have sex with LMAO

[Long Duck Dong]

Ok if you cant find pride in being yourself how about cellebrating the Bisexual heros that brought us the liberty to be ourselves and NOT be persecuted.

Not neccessarilly just those who fought at Stonewall (which is what Pride cellebrates & why its in June) But those and others (like Harvey Milk) "who have fought the government to make right." (in the words of Ani DiFranco - who is Bisexual, btw)

If you feel that its idiotic to cellebrate the fact that you are allowed to be yourself, then cellebrate the fact that those who went before you struggled and won rights that (even today) arent enjoyed everywhere.

For example, did you know that SRS is unlawful in India? Being Bi (or gay/lesbian) is unlawful in almost any Muslim Country. In many places being GLBT is stigmatized.

So you are struggling with your own personal issues, which, in my opinion, have nothing to do with you being bisexual. Because many people experience these same issues without ever being Bisexual. That doesnt have to effect your self pride.

ok.... I will answer this..... honestly...... I do not see heroes in people that walk down the street holding signs or banners or getting arrested..... I see heroes in the people that had the power to change things and DO IT....
they are the ones that have stood up against their fellow peers and changed what was wrong....

I could walk the streets of nz for 20 years, waving signs and talking about LGBT rights.. and nothing.... then one person can but a signature on a bit of paper....and it all changes...

in nz, we protested from the civil union bill and it was passed.... and everybody talked about the power of protest and standing up for your rights.... and how we * won * the * war * with our voices...... then the Prime Minister said that * the reason the law was proposed and passed, was cos she wanted it passed, it was nothing to do with gay rights or protests etc....( incidently, it was the protests for gay rights, that nearly got it vetoed...)... so she made it a conscience vote for all members... most of the members that voted against it, were doing it to stop the gays getting their way.... hows that for the power of protest.....

as for the aspect that in your eyes, my problem is not to do with me being bisexual..... well considering that the issues are directly connected to my bisexual nature and bringing bisexuality or bisexual sex into the relationship is something I clearly stated I do not wish to do.... nor do I wish to have the desires for males and females that I do...... I am really confused how you can say that its noting to do with me being bisexual

[M. Wolfe]

Being proud of who we are is/was the only way to shut them up.

They say "Queer! Fag! Sissy!" and the only answer that really works is to say "Yeah, so what? I am (GLBT), and I am proud of that fact."

There is more than one way to skin a cat. (god, I love that expression)

The only time I have been taunted, I was able to gently remind them that I could easily beat the living daylights out of them it sufficiently provoked, further insinuating that that made me more manly than them. :bigrin:

[Long Duck Dong]

if there is one thing I have learnt....its regardless of the signs waved and the banners held, the voices raised.... there can never be any acceptance of a person, without them coming to terms with themselves.... but its doesn't mean they will accept themselves.....

and thats what I face..... a decision...... be myself and bisexual... or be myself and respect my partner and my desire to be monogamous and not tortured by bisexual desires.....but neither of them can I have.....

the only way, that I would embrace being bisexual, would be to remain single and never settle down and love somebody....as that way i would not have the self doubt or guilt about my bisexual desires and feelings... and I would not struggle with the fact that I love somebody, but would desire the arms and body of another pressed against me........

[AlternatingRed]

if there is one thing I have learnt....its regardless of the signs waved and the banners held, the voices raised.... there can never be any acceptance of a person, without them coming to terms with themselves.... but its doesn't mean they will accept themselves.....

and thats what I face..... a decision...... be myself and bisexual... or be myself and respect my partner and my desire to be monogamous and not tortured by bisexual desires.....but neither of them can I have.....

the only way, that I would embrace being bisexual, would be to remain single and never settle down and love somebody....as that way i would not have the self doubt or guilt about my bisexual desires and feelings... and I would not struggle with the fact that I love somebody, but would desire the arms and body of another pressed against me........



Hello, I am new to the forum and new to discussing this stuff, so probably don’t know what I am talking about. Im mostly trying to work myself out, so please take anything I say in the spirit intended…..that of learning.

Don’t you kinda need to take more care about using the word bisexual? I mean that you say you dilemna is between being monogamous and bisexual. Erm, no its not. I am bisexual, but I am monogamous too. Your dilemma is whether to be monogamous and has nothing really to do with being bisexual at all??

Oh, hello everyone, by the way!

A pride movement is really a knee-jerk reaction to prejudice. But the truth is that to have a movement at all is to focus on sexuality in a way that sends the wrong message to the world; that we are overt sexual beings; which many of us are not. Many of the people on in the forum have as much said this, just using different words. We are not so much proud of what we are, but just want to be left alone to enjoy life in whatever way we see fit. Well, thats what I want anyway. Proud, well that just means we will stand up for what we are.

[MarieDelta]

ok.... I will answer this..... honestly...... I do not see heroes in people that walk down the street holding signs or banners or getting arrested..... I see heroes in the people that had the power to change things and DO IT....
they are the ones that have stood up against their fellow peers and changed what was wrong....

Like Harvey Milk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk), like Silvia Rivera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Rivera), and the many others who have done what needed to be done.


I could walk the streets of nz for 20 years, waving signs and talking about LGBT rights.. and nothing.... then one person can but a signature on a bit of paper....and it all changes...

in nz, we protested from the civil union bill and it was passed.... and everybody talked about the power of protest and standing up for your rights.... and how we * won * the * war * with our voices...... then the Prime Minister said that * the reason the law was proposed and passed, was cos she wanted it passed, it was nothing to do with gay rights or protests etc....( incidently, it was the protests for gay rights, that nearly got it vetoed...)... so she made it a conscience vote for all members... most of the members that voted against it, were doing it to stop the gays getting their way.... hows that for the power of protest.....

Stonewall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots) wasnt just a protest - it was a riot that changed the way the city of New York, and in turn the rest of the Cities around the US treated GL(BT.)
Showing ourselves and the fact that we are everyday folks, some of them your neighbors, tells people that we exist and are just like them. Granted it may be different in other areas of the world, I dont know, but here in the US Stonewall changed things for the better.


as for the aspect that in your eyes, my problem is not to do with me being bisexual..... well considering that the issues are directly connected to my bisexual nature and bringing bisexuality or bisexual sex into the relationship is something I clearly stated I do not wish to do.... nor do I wish to have the desires for males and females that I do...... I am really confused how you can say that its noting to do with me being bisexual

Consider someone who is a transexual who fights against their desire to be the opposite gender. Consider someone who has a significant libido difference with their partner.Consider someone who is gay or lesbian that is in a straight marriage. The problem isnt that you are Bi, the problem is that you have needs that are driving you away from your partner. That could be a variety of things, but in essence it has nothing to do with being Bisexual, but more to do with a conflict between heart and body.

Many heterosexual men( and women too FWIW) have desires for the opposite sex, that isnt a problem , unless you act upon it.

Having been through this particular patch , I can tell you that its not something that I would wish on anyone else.

[IanBorthwick]

At one time it was illegal to express homosexual feelings, transgender/transexual feelings and bisexual feelings. It is not now, mostly due to the fact that our fore-fathers and mothers stood up and said, "Enough! I will not be ashamed of who I am!" Because it is far too easy to say that.

These feelings we have they are very private feelings, not something every person experiences and that makes us different from a very early age. It makes us a loner in a crowd that only accepts the norm. Many of us remember being called by names by the schoolyard bullies.

Being proud of who we are is/was the only way to shut them up.

They say "Queer! Fag! Sissy!" and the only answer that really works is to say "Yeah, so what? I am (GLBT), and I am proud of that fact."

Being out isnt for everyone, people come from all sorts of cicumstances.

But I do think those of us who can, should be. To give to the those who follow. To show that yes, we are human and yes, while we may have failings being ourself isnt a something that we are ashamed of.

This is the same sentiment I wished to express. Since I have had to pay for every day of my life with shame at WHO I am and how different I am, the Prides are an effort to counter the bigotry and attempts(successful I might add) to make me feel a lower sense of self worth.

One day we may not need them to help people, like me, feel less alone and less hated. We may need not need them to help counter the weekly beating I received at home and at school...but exactly when I do not know.

The fact is, little has changed AT ALL. In World of Warcraft I run a family style guild. A boy in JUNIOR HIGH from my guild came to me because I am not at all in the closet to tell me of his new woes. He's gay, someone found out despite his hiding, and has over the past few days suffered 10 man lumberjack style beatings and the Principal suspended HIM for starting it. Well...that just smacks of my time in hell 20 years ago. And the next 4 years for him are going to be rough if I know California school systems, and I DO.

If a parade and a festival can reconnect him to good feelings and the Trevor Project saves him from successfully committing suicide some time in the next 4 years, then I see a serious need for Pride.

Oh, yes. I sincerely do.

[elian]

You want to know why we have parades?

I recently watched the movie MILK, by the end of the movie, when they showed a scene with thousands of people each carrying a single candle - a RIVER of light flowing through the city I was crying like a baby. The candles were lit in memory of the assassinated first openly gay man to hold political office in the US - but what I imagined when I saw those candles was a light against the darkness for every teenage person who has ever questioned their own self worth. So many young people who are struggling, not only to grow up, but with the possibility of facing horrible discrimination.

It is amazing to me just how far we HAVE come since the 1970's era of Anita Bryant portrayed in the movie.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of excessively flamboyant behavior and I can understand the argument that people should just be accepted and not have to flaunt it, but I still think "parades" serve a purpose.

The 1970's parade scenes played to the tune of "Somewhere over the rainbow" also threw me for a loop..they really WERE sick of it and struggling to be heard.

[elian]

This is the same sentiment I wished to express. Since I have had to pay for every day of my life with shame at WHO I am and how different I am, the Prides are an effort to counter the bigotry and attempts(successful I might add) to make me feel a lower sense of self worth.

One day we may not need them to help people, like me, feel less alone and less hated. We may need not need them to help counter the weekly beating I received at home and at school...but exactly when I do not know.

The fact is, little has changed AT ALL. In World of Warcraft I run a family style guild. A boy in JUNIOR HIGH from my guild came to me because I am not at all in the closet to tell me of his new woes. He's gay, someone found out despite his hiding, and has over the past few days suffered 10 man lumberjack style beatings and the Principal suspended HIM for starting it. Well...that just smacks of my time in hell 20 years ago. And the next 4 years for him are going to be rough if I know California school systems, and I DO.

If a parade and a festival can reconnect him to good feelings and the Trevor Project saves him from successfully committing suicide some time in the next 4 years, then I see a serious need for Pride.

Oh, yes. I sincerely do.

No child should have to suffer for the way they were born, my heart goes out to you - and to all of those people who were innocent and still suffered.

[Long Duck Dong]

Like Harvey Milk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk), like Silvia Rivera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Rivera), and the many others who have done what needed to be done.



Stonewall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots) wasnt just a protest - it was a riot that changed the way the city of New York, and in turn the rest of the Cities around the US treated GL(BT.)
Showing ourselves and the fact that we are everyday folks, some of them your neighbors, tells people that we exist and are just like them. Granted it may be different in other areas of the world, I dont know, but here in the US Stonewall changed things for the better.



Consider someone who is a transexual who fights against their desire to be the opposite gender. Consider someone who has a significant libido difference with their partner.Consider someone who is gay or lesbian that is in a straight marriage. The problem isnt that you are Bi, the problem is that you have needs that are driving you away from your partner. That could be a variety of things, but in essence it has nothing to do with being Bisexual, but more to do with a conflict between heart and body.

Many heterosexual men( and women too FWIW) have desires for the opposite sex, that isnt a problem , unless you act upon it.

Having been through this particular patch , I can tell you that its not something that I would wish on anyone else.


no I made my meaning clear..... I require the people that sign the pieces of paper that change things as heroes.....helen clark ( as prime minister and in the face of extreme opposition ) put her signature to a piece of paper that made civil union legal for all nz'ers..... that is a hero...as she signed that piece of paper for ALL nz'ers.... regardless of sexuality......
the lgbt community marched for the LGBT community...not nz'ers as a whole... I marched with many groups as a nz'er, as a bisexual and as a person that believed in the rights of all nz'ers equally...

people marching down the street, doesn't make you feel better. your choices and decisions make you feel better about yourself or worse.....people marching down the street, doesn't suddenly change the opinions of anti LGBT groups to pro lgbt groups....it does make us a more visible target, yes.... and makes people more aware of us and the fact we exist..... but its our actions and attitudes in everyday life, that make the true difference.....
if I saw you in a march about pride.... you are a person in a march about pride..... I meet you every day in a work place.... you become marie delta, a person who marchs in a march about pride, but you are a person that I now talk to every day, and I can see you and how you are not a face in a crowd, but a person........ marching in a parade doesn't change my perspection of you...... you do....


and again after 38 years in the same body... and years of experimenting and learning about myself.....tells me what I know......bisexuality and monogamous are two different things......
being bisexual means that I have attractions to both genders, sexual and otherwise....
being monogamous, means I settle with one person and one people only and dedicate my heart and life to them.......

now I can be transgender and monogamous....
now I can be straight and monogamous
now I can be gay and monogamous
now I can be lesbian and monogamous.....

and with all 4 of them.... I generally am not torn apart from desires for things my partner can not share with me......and the constant desire and urge to have a penis in me, that my partner can not provide...
to have that penis in me, would require me to step outside of the relationship...and that would immediately make it a non monogamous relationship.....
now if I was not bisexual and was not attracted to the same gender, then I would not have the desires to go off with other men...and that means that it would not be a nagging issue in the relationship

this is a issue that I have... it has been my choice to make the monogamous decision for myself, knowing full well, it goes against my bisexual urges and desires......and inform my partner of my choice for myself, even tho my partner has stated that she knows fully of my bisexual nature and understands it.... and respects that i am not taking the easy way out for me and compromising with her, so that I can sleep with other men....... but stating that I wish to have her as my partner.....my only partner..... and not compromise our relationship simply for a issue of sex with the same gender

I fully accept that it will create issues in myself.... but I have on a number of occasions stated, that I view love, honesty and loyalty to my ONLY partner as very high on the level of relationships.... and to change my life around for the relationship and my partner... to me, is a clear form of respect and honesty...and a genuine display that I wish to be in a monogamous relationship........ it is my bisexual desires that are gonna be the biggest headache for me..... but in my eyes... its only sex that I will miss out on..... and while sex is nice..... long term love and support is far more valuable...

[Long Duck Dong]

You want to know why we have parades?

I recently watched the movie MILK, by the end of the movie, when they showed a scene with thousands of people each carrying a single candle - a RIVER of light flowing through the city I was crying like a baby. The candles were lit in memory of the assassinated first openly gay man to hold political office in the US - but what I imagined when I saw those candles was a light against the darkness for every teenage person who has ever questioned their own self worth. So many young people who are struggling, not only to grow up, but with the possibility of facing horrible discrimination.

It is amazing to me just how far we HAVE come since the 1970's era of Anita Bryant portrayed in the movie.

Honestly, I'm not a big fan of excessively flamboyant behavior and I can understand the argument that people should just be accepted and not have to flaunt it, but I still think "parades" serve a purpose.

The 1970's parade scenes played to the tune of "Somewhere over the rainbow" also threw me for a loop..they really WERE sick of it and struggling to be heard.



I know why we have parades.....I do march in the anzac parades ( anzac = australian. new zealand. armed corps ) its a parade as a tribute to the people who fought and died in many of the major wars of the world....
and no I do not march with them because I condone war, tho I view it as a necessary evil at times

I will walk beside men and women not cos they served in a war etc.... but because, they need a shoulder to lean on, they are infirm, they are ill, they are lonely, they are elderly.... they are war veterans, yes, but beyond that, they are people too.....

I am the same with the queens on the quay parade ( transgender folk, female impersonators, drag queens etc ) the hero parade ( lgbt ) the gay and lesbian mardi gras ( lgbt )..... I will walk with you, not to celebrate past events or people.... but to support you as a person regardless of your sexuality or gender.... cos you are a person

its the same attitude that has many people quick to point at me and judge me.... and my reaction is always the same..... you can put yourself on the outside of the main stream cos of your gender or sexuality.... but i will not do that......

anybody can be proud of who they are.... but being LGBT doesn't pay the bills, put a roof over your head, wash the dishes and cloth you.... so I will not treat you differently because you are lgbt or straight.... I will treat you the same as the person next to you as you have asked to be treated the same as the person next to you....... you are the person that is saying you are LGBT and you are the person that wants to have that label and walk under that label.....and be proud of that label...... me, I do not care about your label.... I will help you the same as the next man or woman that needs help..... regardless of what you do in the bedroom......


THAT is my pride.... I am proud to support my fellow man and woman, regardless of culture, creed, belief, race, sexuality or gender..... but cos they need that extra bit of help and support....... and I do it without walking under a label........

[elian]

Your thoughts seem very well rounded and mature LDD, appreciate having you as a friend and an ally. Facing thoughts of suicide growing up because of questioning my orientation did something - the response is less logical and more intuitive - as you have alluded to, sometimes more detrimental to the cause maybe..not sure.

I just heard on the radio today that they are planning to draft yet another "protection of marriage" bill here, this time with supposedly "even more urgency" since additional states have said it's OK to be LGBT and get married.

The thought of going back 20 years in time with respect to ANYONE's human rights frustrates and disheartens me..undoubtedly I suppose I WILL be looking for a piece of paper to sign, I may have to literally stand up for my beliefs. It takes a lot of energy to fight this fight..opposition seems to be way better organized.

[Long Duck Dong]

thank you very much...... I am a bisexual with dystimia ( uncurable / intreatable depression ) so I have good days, bad days and days when I really struggle and I can relate to the feelings of suicide.... much of my life has been a struggle with my bisexuality...and the fluid changes, and then to add to the mix, the struggle to remain stable..... and you can imagine how hard things can get...... and my heart felt desire to find any stablility in a unstable and constantly changing life....and how the constant thought of suicide that never ends for me, at times, is like a warm and cosy bed on a cold winters morning......

protection of marriage ???? can there be no compromise.... could the LGBT community not settle for the civil union / marriage compromise, like we gained in nz ??? they are losing as fast as they gain...... and they need to compromise and grab what they can get....

the civil union is a state of marriage with all the same rights as marriage, for all people.... with marriage being for heterosexual people..... sure, its not equal footing.... but its better than losing everything they have gained, cos they want the best or nothing at all....and its costing the people that have gained that compromise and the chance to marry, in states where lgbt marriage has been accepted....and now other states are changing laws so they do not have to acknowledge it or accept it.
there is a time, when we need to look at the bigger picture and realise that we may not win the war, but a mutual armistice is far better than defeat......

[MarieDelta]

no I made my meaning clear..... I require the people that sign the pieces of paper that change things as heroes.....helen clark ( as prime minister and in the face of extreme opposition ) put her signature to a piece of paper that made civil union legal for all nz'ers..... that is a hero...as she signed that piece of paper for ALL nz'ers.... regardless of sexuality......
the lgbt community marched for the LGBT community...not nz'ers as a whole... I marched with many groups as a nz'er, as a bisexual and as a person that believed in the rights of all nz'ers equally...

people marching down the street, doesn't make you feel better. your choices and decisions make you feel better about yourself or worse.....people marching down the street, doesn't suddenly change the opinions of anti LGBT groups to pro lgbt groups....it does make us a more visible target, yes.... and makes people more aware of us and the fact we exist..... but its our actions and attitudes in everyday life, that make the true difference.....
if I saw you in a march about pride.... you are a person in a march about pride..... I meet you every day in a work place.... you become marie delta, a person who marchs in a march about pride, but you are a person that I now talk to every day, and I can see you and how you are not a face in a crowd, but a person........ marching in a parade doesn't change my perspection of you...... you do....


and again after 38 years in the same body... and years of experimenting and learning about myself.....tells me what I know......bisexuality and monogamous are two different things......
being bisexual means that I have attractions to both genders, sexual and otherwise....
being monogamous, means I settle with one person and one people only and dedicate my heart and life to them.......

now I can be transgender and monogamous....
now I can be straight and monogamous
now I can be gay and monogamous
now I can be lesbian and monogamous.....

and with all 4 of them.... I generally am not torn apart from desires for things my partner can not share with me......and the constant desire and urge to have a penis in me, that my partner can not provide...
to have that penis in me, would require me to step outside of the relationship...and that would immediately make it a non monogamous relationship.....
now if I was not bisexual and was not attracted to the same gender, then I would not have the desires to go off with other men...and that means that it would not be a nagging issue in the relationship

this is a issue that I have... it has been my choice to make the monogamous decision for myself, knowing full well, it goes against my bisexual urges and desires......and inform my partner of my choice for myself, even tho my partner has stated that she knows fully of my bisexual nature and understands it.... and respects that i am not taking the easy way out for me and compromising with her, so that I can sleep with other men....... but stating that I wish to have her as my partner.....my only partner..... and not compromise our relationship simply for a issue of sex with the same gender

I fully accept that it will create issues in myself.... but I have on a number of occasions stated, that I view love, honesty and loyalty to my ONLY partner as very high on the level of relationships.... and to change my life around for the relationship and my partner... to me, is a clear form of respect and honesty...and a genuine display that I wish to be in a monogamous relationship........ it is my bisexual desires that are gonna be the biggest headache for me..... but in my eyes... its only sex that I will miss out on..... and while sex is nice..... long term love and support is far more valuable...

LDD, you should know that I respect you, and find you to be a highly inteligent and wise person.

But on the matter of whether a bisexual person can be monogamous, I must respectfully disagree. I dont think you have to polyamorous to be bi or vice versa.

Also I disagree that those who sign the papers are the heros. Many people who have changed the world have never held office at all. Ghandi certainly changed the world, before he was ever elected to office. Martin Luther King changed history as well, and he never held office. Rosa Parks, Susan B Anthony and others who have stood up, despite never having held office, have changed history.

But, like I said, I respect that your opinion is valid, and that you have your reasons for it.

[Papelucho]

I think that the parades are a good idea.

[Long Duck Dong]

I may be bisexual... but by hell I will be loyal to and respect my partner if it bloody kills me.....

I know that I will struggle with my bisexual side..... but my bisexual tendencies will just have to take a back seat in my life..... they have ruled me for long enuf.... and now I wanna be loved and settle down with one person.....

my partner is straight and understanding of my bi side... but I do not wish to have her put in the situation of love me, while I have sex with others... its simply not gonna happen..... she was born without a cock, I will love her with a cock, and I will learn to live without a cock

and by heroes..... well we can agree to disagree..... but as i have posted... the whole lgbt community could have walked to the moon and back.... twice..... and it would have done nothing...... but one person signed a document making the civil union legal in new zealand.... for EVERY nz'er... not just the LGBT community..... thats a hero in my eyes.....cos they had the power to make it LEGAL...and they did..... something all the street walkers could not do.....

[elian]

could the LGBT community not settle for the civil union / marriage compromise, like we gained in nz ??? they are losing as fast as they gain...... and they need to compromise and grab what they can get....



Yes, frankly I don't care WHAT you call it as long as the government is not legislating who I can love in a more restrictive way. Every person who is a legal citizen of the commonwealth should have equal civil rights and protection under the law - period.

The people pushing for the "protection of marriage" bill are straight fundamentalists. They see their definition of "traditional faithful marriage between a man and a woman" going down the toilet. People are sleeping together before marriage, having children out of wedlock, getting divorced..

They are desperate to get that ideal back - I guess somehow they think that life will have some magical quality with marriage that it otherwise lacks. Maybe they are hoping to live in the fanciful world of Norman Rockwell - I dunno. There are times I wish I had a spouse (and I guess I do in a way) because it does seem to make life more tolerable to know that someone out there loves and cares for you deeply.

They'll be damned if someone is going to try and redefine what it means to be married - especially some "sinful, flamboyant gay people". I suspect that they just can't relate. That they generally believe that since gay people are "living in sin" by practicing sex with another man they could never be reverent of the holy union between God, Man and Spouse that IS marriage.

Fine, then give me my civil union and we can move on to something more productive in the world eh?

The way it was tabled last time is that another senator stood up and said "If you all pass this protection of marriage amendment, since marriage is so sacred I'm going to propose adding language to make getting a divorce illegal."

Anyway - sorry to detract from the thread topic.

With regard to your struggle to be bi and monogamous - depending on the wife you might still be able to get some mileage out of toys eh?

[MarieDelta]

FWIW: If marriage is , in effect, a contract, then as long as the two people involved are of age , it shouldnt matter what gender they are as long as they are able to legally engage in a legal agreement.

But then what do I know, I'm just another queer.

[TwylaTwobits]

yes elian we will get mileage out of toys :)

[Long Duck Dong]

FWIW: If marriage is , in effect, a contract, then as long as the two people involved are of age , it shouldnt matter what gender they are as long as they are able to legally engage in a legal agreement.

But then what do I know, I'm just another queer.

pleased to meet ya, I am just another bi...... that aside... wanna go for a coffee, sometime.... I would love to meet many of the people in the site, for coffee and a chat.... and the chance to laugh at the anti lgbt and their *sacred * marriage...and how the countries with pro lgbt marrage, have the lowest divorce rate amongst the LGBT and heterosexual couples.... :bigrin:

btw, I perfer a standard coffee, none of this fancy stuff..... whats your fav ???

[Long Duck Dong]

Yes, frankly I don't care WHAT you call it as long as the government is not legislating who I can love in a more restrictive way. Every person who is a legal citizen of the commonwealth should have equal civil rights and protection under the law - period.

The people pushing for the "protection of marriage" bill are straight fundamentalists. They see their definition of "traditional faithful marriage between a man and a woman" going down the toilet. People are sleeping together before marriage, having children out of wedlock, getting divorced..

They are desperate to get that ideal back - I guess somehow they think that life will have some magical quality with marriage that it otherwise lacks. Maybe they are hoping to live in the fanciful world of Norman Rockwell - I dunno. There are times I wish I had a spouse (and I guess I do in a way) because it does seem to make life more tolerable to know that someone out there loves and cares for you deeply.

They'll be damned if someone is going to try and redefine what it means to be married - especially some "sinful, flamboyant gay people". I suspect that they just can't relate. That they generally believe that since gay people are "living in sin" by practicing sex with another man they could never be reverent of the holy union between God, Man and Spouse that IS marriage.

Fine, then give me my civil union and we can move on to something more productive in the world eh?

The way it was tabled last time is that another senator stood up and said "If you all pass this protection of marriage amendment, since marriage is so sacred I'm going to propose adding language to make getting a divorce illegal."

Anyway - sorry to detract from the thread topic.

With regard to your struggle to be bi and monogamous - depending on the wife you might still be able to get some mileage out of toys eh?


do dildoes and vibs come in diesel powered styles ????? going thru 3 packs of batteries a night is a lil expensive lol

oh for the good old days, of you stood on the door step and shouting out your love your you partner and thats it, you were considered married ..... misses the days of greece and iceland and celtic britain....... btw... you are coming for coffee too..... give me a few years to walk them tho, I hate flying.... and boats....and swimming........ sighs

[TwylaTwobits]

do dildoes and vibs come in diesel powered styles ????? going thru 3 packs of batteries a night is a lil expensive lol

oh for the good old days, of you stood on the door step and shouting out your love your you partner and thats it, you were considered married ..... misses the days of greece and iceland and celtic britain....... btw... you are coming for coffee too..... give me a few years to walk them tho, I hate flying.... and boats....and swimming........ sighs

Darling dearest Duckie.....I love you but you weren't supposed to tell how many batteries we use.... sigh. Runs off to buy more stock in Duracell.

[elian]

do dildoes and vibs come in diesel powered styles ????? going thru 3 packs of batteries a night is a lil expensive lol

..... give me a few years to walk them tho, I hate flying.... and boats....and swimming........ sighs

Aww <smiles> ..just be sure to watch out for muffler burns.

Pure speculation on my part but as far as the pro-LGBT stuff and the low divorce rate - the attitudes in such a society may already be predisposed to understanding what it means to be in a committed relationship, perhaps the citizens have a better idea of self-worth and morale?

Certainly not in every case, but I could see at least some of this debate going all the way back to people who are dissatisfied at a very basic level in life. They aren't getting the results they crave and they are hoping that just around the corner and over the rainbow there is something better.

Hey, wait - I guess you could say that about the people on BOTH sides of the argument.

Anyway, thanks for the critical thinking exercise,
-E

[MarieDelta]

pleased to meet ya, I am just another bi...... that aside... wanna go for a coffee, sometime.... I would love to meet many of the people in the site, for coffee and a chat.... and the chance to laugh at the anti lgbt and their *sacred * marriage...and how the countries with pro lgbt marrage, have the lowest divorce rate amongst the LGBT and heterosexual couples.... :bigrin:

btw, I perfer a standard coffee, none of this fancy stuff..... whats your fav ???


I'm a latte girl, w/ two splendas please, although that would probably amount to a "regular coffee with milk & two splenda" for you european types.



Maybe someday I'll get over to NZ on my way to Thailand ;):cool: Yes I would love to get together sometime. My love and I have been making the rounds meeting as many people from here as possible.

[TwylaTwobits]

I'm a latte girl, w/ two splendas please, although that would probably amount to a "regular coffee with milk & two splenda" for you european types.



Maybe someday I'll get over to NZ on my way to Thailand ;):cool: Yes I would love to get together sometime. My love and I have been making the rounds meeting as many people from here as possible.

Sigh would love to see when you stop by, Marie. But what is it with people adding stuff to coffee? I drink mine black and enjoy coffee that tastes like coffee not coffee colored water. Yeah I will drive LDD nuts when I forget to buy milk for his cause I don't use it :P

[ambi53mm]

I am looking at it from the same angle as lets have a blind person parade.... or a vertical challenged parade...
.

Actually we did have a parade scheduled LDD...but between my seeing eye dog catching the flu and my nose-bleeds when I travel 10 feet above sea level I had to cancel... :(...bummer :stoned:...oh well there's always next year :)

Ambi

[MarieDelta]

Sigh would love to see when you stop by, Marie. But what is it with people adding stuff to coffee? I drink mine black and enjoy coffee that tastes like coffee not coffee colored water. Yeah I will drive LDD nuts when I forget to buy milk for his cause I don't use it :P

I dunno, I drink it black too - when forced- but I'd much rather relax and have some milk & sugar with it. Having tried coffee in all different ways, I still would rather take mine light & sweet.

"De gustibus non est disputandum" - “There’s no disputing about taste.”

[MarieDelta]

do dildoes and vibs come in diesel powered styles ?????

Funny you should ask - Heres a vibrator for ya

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/51373370/Concrete_Vibrator.jpg


(j/k)

[TwylaTwobits]

Giggles and has to report that so far we have no issues with his bisexual nature.... in fact i am happy to report that the feeldoe works well, just wish it was a bit longer, it looked huge when we were ordering it but it needs just a few more inches and he would be in heaven.