Married male w/bi curious wife

[boots3236]

Hello to all and thank you for taking the time to read and respond. First of all lets get the life story out of the way. My wife and I have been together for 20 years and married for 18. We have three beautiful children. The past two years have been extremely tough on both of us. She was spending more time with her friends and leaving me behind. No affection, sex was at a minimum. Three years ago this past January I caught her making out with a friend of hers. I didn't know how to act. I got upset and cried and we fought. I asked if she was gay and she told me she was not. But our marriage suffered immensley. We kepts growing apart at a rapid rate. We separated last October and she told me she wanted a divorce. I took this as a chance to go out and explore and so I did. I did not like it because all I thought of was her. The divorce process is still pending however, we talked the other day for two hours. She finally opened up and told me that she is BI-curious. When I asked what that meant, she stated that she is attracted to other women. She also confided in me that she has a friend that she has "been with." When I asked if her what that meant, she stated that they pleased each other with just their fingers. She told me she has never gone down on another woman but finds their touch and skin to be much better than a guys. She also told me that she has never cheated on me with another guy, just this friend of hers. She said that shes new to this lifestyle and doesnt really know what to do or how to act. She talked about masturbating and using toys, which I tried getting her to do when we were in our happy years but she never would.

I was very understanding during our two hour conversation. I did not judge but had all of these questions in my mind. I still have tons of questions. But before we ended the conversation, I asked if she did decide to go "all the way" with her friend if I could watch.

I guess during this conversation, I wanted to lay everyting out on the table and see what her intentions were. I asked if we were going to try and work through this to get back to being a married couple again. She said we need to take baby steps and go at this very slow. I reassured her thats what I wanted to do. She keeps reaffirming me that this is now normal for women who are married. I only know of one other couple that is this way. However, when I asked her if she was going to go to bars and pick up stray women, she said she didn't know. My question is what if she does and then tells me the next day that she did? Or comes home to me to have sex after being with some stranger? I find it very disturbing. I would not do that to her, so why should I get that in return. I know were trying to get our marriage back the way it was or better and I love her to death, but when can I get all of my questions answered?

I was thinking of writing down all of my questions and then every so often, throw a couple at her. A funny thing that she said today was that she doesn't plan on doing this when she's 40. So if thats the case, am i safe to assume that this will all be over by then? I'm not getting any younger and neither is she. I just want love and attention/affection from her which I have not had in a very long time. If there are any others out there with this same story, I would greatly appreciate some insight. Thank you again for taking the time to read this.

[shaunjean]

Hi my name is shaun and i have read your story with great interest. My wife ( now ) told me se was bi when we where seeing each other. she told me during a sex session when i thought to myself there is something wrong here. you see i was making love with her doggy style and she had her head in the pillow. Her hea kept going from side to side in a motion we make when licking a clit. I asked her what she was doing and she replied" im licking another womans pussy" well this turned me on and our session soon ended as to speak. We spoke about it afterwards and she told me she use to have sex with other women when she went out if she didn't fancy any of the fellas.We now invite other women to ours or if we go to swinging parties and i watch them make love. I have learnt alot about a womens body and what they need and want and our mariage is really strong. i know when to ask her if she wants to invite other women or if she wants it just to be us two. more than often she invites other women round and we have threesomes with us both pleasuring the other women/wife. Take it slowly and don't get jealous it will turn out well in the end. GOOD LUCK!!!!

[2bi2Bboring]

First off, this is only the death of your marriage if you let it be. Second, she is NOT going to get this out of her system. Being bi is not a phase or a curable condition. It is time for a massive amount of communication, not judgement. YOur wife is baring her innermost feelings to you, if you want to watch your marriage go down in flames, get mad. If you want to save it, listen. Don't blame, don't judge, don't even form an opinion untill you have heard her. Listen, not with your ears, but your heart. Take your time , process it, because your actions, your words and the decisions you make have consequences. I know what you have already learned may be a blow to your ego or your masculinity, it has little to do with either or your ability as a lover or much else to do with you. This is an issue she has probably wrestled with for a long time, maybe years or even decades. It says EVERYTHING that she was at least contemplating thrashing her whole life to explore this. If you make her, she just might do just that. But if you are openminded and understanding, you will have a wife that trusts and respects you. I know you have questions, probably tons of them , but you need to ask yourself. " If I ask this question, does this answer help me understand or just satify my morbid curiosity?" There are some questions are much more important than others. Probably the most important one is you can ask your wife is , "How can I help you come to terms with this?" and "What do you want from me?" Be kind, be a good listener, be understanding, be gentle in every way. This is a very delicate situation, but others have survived this, you two can too. It speaks volumes that you are here asking questions of us, you must love her very much. But it also says volumes that she, dispite nearly letting the divorce go through, is trying to work with you to save your marriage. You are going to need to find out whether you can handle her having sex with another woman in front of you. You are going to have to find out if you can indulge her sexuality as a husband. I am not going to presume that I know how this is going to work out for you. She obviously trusts in you enough to explain herself and her desires. There is hope for you both but only if you can handle it. Time to step up to the plate. This is allstar time, and you can be a hero or a zero.

In my own relationship, I have known my wife was bi since the first real conversation I had with her alone. The circumstances are not so important of how that conversation came to be but that was 13 years ago. We have a strong relationship and a happy sex life. We have had several longterm lovers, and some short-termers too. My point in telling you this is that I know for a fact that if I had not been understanding, MY WIFE, who is a 4 on the kinsey scale, would not be living in a seemingly heterosexual relationship. She is with me because of my understanding of her sexuality. She would have sought out another woman if I had not been so understanding. I know because she told me so. As far as you are concerned, the only thing between you and that understanding is your attitudes and preconcieved ideas. Better to go in to this conversation with a blank slate, no expectations, and only love for your wife. I wish you all the luck in the world.

[tenni]

Well, basically she cheated on you and you caught her. That brought her sexuality out. There are posters on this site if the genders were reversed would have been all over this thread condemning your partner. It is always interesting what these flaming trolls chose to be silent on.


“She keeps reaffirming me that this is now normal for women who are married. “
This is an interesting statement. She is coming about this perspective from some support position by others? It may becoming more acceptable for bisexuals to reject the restrains of monogamy. Whether female bisexuals are in greater numbers than male bisexuals is uncertain but societal acceptance seems to support women more than men for same sex activity. That seems true.


“A funny thing that she said today was that she doesn't plan on doing this when she's 40. So if thats the case, am i safe to assume that this will all be over by then? “
If she is bisexual, sorry but no it will not be over by 40. She will not return to heterosexual feelings/thoughs and actions. Your relationship will probably not return to the way it was twenty years ago but with communication you may both find a way to love each other and go forward with a deep rich loving relationship that is open. She may think that it is just a fling and she will be able to deny her sexuality after a certain age. The reality is that there is an ebb and flow to bisexuality and she may think this way because her needs for same sex have changed. She may think that by feeding her desires that the need will go away. It probably will not. Whether she tries to repress her needs again is what she may mean.

Instead, you both need to discuss what the “rules” are going to be. What can you accept and what does she need. Often, on this site the word communication is used. It is good that you are both communicating but she may not understand herself clearly enough yet.

Do not push her to have sex with a woman with you being present. This awareness and self acceptance may require her to explore sexually on her own. If she is comfortable, then explore you watching her and her lover..if you are comfortable.

“I just want love and attention/affection from her which I have not had in a very long time. “
This is understandable. As she explores her sexuality, she may or may not be able to give you the love you want. She may in fact be a lesbian. I base this possibility on the fact that she has withdrawn sexually from you for some time. It is more likely that bisexuals will desire both but the pendulum may swing in one direction and stay there for sometime. She seems confused and your support for her is commendable. Only you can decide whether to continue this relationship roller coaster or it is time for you to walk away for good. Good luck.

[boots3236]

2bi2bboring, I have a question for you. I know you stated that you and your wife have this type of relationship and it is great. How would you suggest I go about talking to her about the rules and boundaries? I've read so much on here and am eternally grateful for the responses. I know that my marriage will never be the same. I want this to work for both our sakes. I do love her with all my heart but I have this nervousness in my stomach I cant get rid of. I want to ask all of these questions, not to fulfill my own fantasies but how we are going to come to terms with this so that its equitable for both of us. I don't want to rush anything. I confided in a friend of mine last evening. Its the only person I have told about this. There was one main question that I needed answered which was, "Are you going to give this relationship we have 100% of an effort?" Her first answer to me was well what does that entail. I reaffirmed her that I am not asking any other questions just this one and it required a yes or no answer. She yes that she would. So at least that got that question answered. However, in our two hour conversation she said that she did not want me to limit her on the stuff that she does with her friends. So I told her that we are going to still do the child custody agreement, just as if we are still separated. I'm not going to ask where she is going or whom she is with unless she wants to tell me. However, on the flip side, down the road and if things are going well, I want to ask those things and her not get upset about them. I also want equal time with her. Right now she is getting her sexual needs fulfilled by another woman. I have nothing but my hand to please me.

She and I have not been with each other since September 2012. I know it may have been a little pushy on my part to ask if I could watch but I went for it. The next day she told me that she found it very attractive that I asked that question. I'm guessing thats a good thing. I really don't know how to act around her right now. The main reason she and I split up in the beginning was due to the fact that she said I was no fun. But her type of fun was going out and drinking, heavily, dancing and partying with her friends. I'm not into the partying and dancing and stuff. I tried that before and it didn't work out for me. I'm just not wired like that I guess.

I know I keep jumping around but things pop into my head. How do you deal with your wife sleeping with another woman when your not there? Isn't it cheating? Aren't we just giving them a free pass card to cheat on us? I know you said in your post that you guys go to swing clubs. Again, I'm not into swinging. I don't want to watch my wife with some other guy, plus I don't think she would anyway. When shes out with her friend, I told her that I worry about her. I changed that to wondering about what shes doing. To try and ease her mind. She told me that all she wants is for me to be happy for her. I am but I'm not. Everyone else gets all her attention and I get none. Why can't she just try to please me? Or at least meet me half way. Just a little something is better than nothing at all. Shes told me that I'm the only man for her, however she likes women too. Yes this gives me an inferiority complex. Do I think this is great? Hell yeah! Am I scared? Damn right I am. Ive been shot at before and getting shot at does not compare to this at all.

For the next week, I'm not going to ask any questions or bother her. Just like were still separated. I have decided to keep the paperwork with the attorney just in case. I don't want to go three or four months down the road and nothing has changed. I know it takes time but what she doesnt realize is that I have feelings too. I just want the same attention she giving her friend. I think thats fair. Anyway I'm sure I will have more to talk about so feel free to Private message me or Instant message me or whatever they have on this sight. Thanks again for the advice.

[elian]

First of all, I am glad you were able to stay married that long and raise healthy children, I hope your children aren't really caught up in this too.

I wish more people would be understanding and accepting about sex and love but not "everyone" is bisexual. What is acceptable is something for the two of you to discuss and figure out.

What I feel when I read the 'everyone is doing it now" statement is that she felt unloved or unsatisfied in the relationship and she went outside of it to get what she was missing. You ALSO seem to feel the same way, unloved and unsatisfied. If it was my spouse I wish she would've talked to me about all of those feelings instead of doing it behind my back but what's done is done. There are lots of reasons that people might hide or suppress same sex desire. The primary one is fear of what others will think. People get killed or harassed, they lose their job, a lot guys think that two girls together is hot but the threat is real and I think the fear is the same regardless of what sex the person is.

Now you need to concentrate on what, if anything you would still like to be with each other. Make sure to consider the needs of the children if they are not adults. It might be best to start over again as best friends. I would level with her - if it is true, tell her you want her to feel good, but don't forget about your needs as well. It is good that you are listening and trying to stay calm and considerate but at the end of listening and considering what you heard you need to take your own feelings into consideration because It takes two people to have a healthy relationship.

Only the two of you can decide how much you love each other, how much effort each of you are willing to put into the relationship and what the "rules" will be. You need to talk and see if she'd still like to have you in her life. I know that sounds harsh, and whatever the answer is I hope you don't take it personally. We all struggle very hard with trying to figure out our place in the world and just where we fit in. If she says no, that is sad but it doesn't mean that you are worthless.

When my parents first met they were very much in love with each other and each one desperately needed the security of being with someone else. Now 7 years later they were living more like brother and sister - one of them just really wanted to go in a different direction. They got a divorce. It was sad, but at least they weren't angry and vindictive. Two years later my mom is happy in Oregon and my step dad is remarried and seems very happy as well.

If she cannot love you the way that you want, don't you deserve a chance to be truly happy and in love again? I would ask the same thing for her, other than I figure the reason you are being so patient may be because you love her and you want her to be happy too.

Some bisexual people want a manogomous relationship, some are very committed to a partner (well either one partner only or one of each sex) but still want to fulfill their desires with another of the same sex and some really want a "polyamorous" relationship and would rather be happy as something like swingers..

Is it an early mid-life crisis? It sounds like your wife is still trying to figure it out, if she really doesn't know what she wants then it may be hard for her to define all of this stuff right now. Just like with guys trying to admit they like other guys I would imagine that she might've been scared or embarrassed or didn't want to hurt you, although her getting affection from someone/somewhere else had the effect of hurting you anyway.

Women who find out their husband has an interest in men often say the same thing, "I don't HAVE a PENIS how can I compete with that? He doesn't love me, I can't satisfy him!??"

There are a lot of fears but the only thing I can say is at the end of the day, your spouse is still coming home to you, they love you just as much as they always have. If you are concerned about STDs then it is your right to ask about using protection or folks getting tested. Some couples make meeting you a requirement of playing with a third person. You will need to talk to see if these things can be worked out.

Good luck, either way - you are not alone.

[elian]

So, what you want will be a part of the discussion.. If you want to be included in her life you will have to tell her that. Be honest, if the thought of watching her with another woman makes you excited then say so. If the thought of her being with another man makes you unhappy then say so, and why. It is cheating if you both agree that it is cheating. If you discuss it I wouldn't worry about the word "cheating" as much as describing how unloved and insecure it made you feel. Hopefully she can offer you some reassurance or empathy about those feelings.

Instead of "You need to stop" -say instead- "I feel vulnerable when I think of you sleeping with other guys".

Every situation can be different but if it is a true bisexual relationship and she wants to stay in the marriage you can probably stop worrying about her looking for other guys because she already has a guy, you.

[boots3236]

Elian, Thank you for the response. Just to clarify, she just moved back into the house on Wednesday. And she is not completely moved back in either. She wanted to keep a few things at her parents house, so they wouldn't feel that she is abandoning them. They are not in good health. She also asked that i don't say anyting to them or my family for fear of what they might think. However, she has told her friends. I'm just hoping that none of it gets back to them. Will I be embarrased if they find out. Yes, especially if were trying to work this out and make a go of it. And then I have to explain it to my parents as to why my wife now wants to be with women as well as me. They are VERY religious and conservative. So I'm dreading that talk.

I'm not at all worried about her going out and finding other guys to sleep with. Its her going out, getting drunk, and finding some female she just met to go have a quickie. I can't handle that. That to me is definitely cheating. For the past two years she has drank heavily, so heavily at times that she cannot remember what she did the night before. This was a point of contention during our first encounter with separation. But two days ago she told me that she drank so bad because she didnt want to think about anything. Her being BI and all, I guess. However, when I asked her to be totally honest with me and to tell me everything she has done, she said that she would. All of it that she could remember. This part scares me a lot. I just don't want us to be finally getting along and then out of the blue, he pops up John Doe who said he had a nice threesome with my wife and some other girl. Yes it would hurt immensley. Would I stay, probably not. I just can't handle that thought.

She says we need to take it slow, baby steps. I'm fine with that. But I just thought about this today. I haven't been with my wife since september of last year. She has made no advances to give me a quick kiss, touch or anything. I'm wondering how long it took her to kiss her friend. If its, say, a week. Then in a week, with her stating to me that she wants to work this out, I should receive some sort of affection. That was probably my biggest complaint with her, was the affection. However, she told me at the time she was what she called a non-sexual being. didn't like to be touched or anything. But then she tells me shes into women. WTF!!! How is it that she doesn't want me touching her at all or even looking at her naked, to letting some other women look at her naked and touch her? Thats the part that hurts and I don't understand. Sorry. I'm being patient, but how long do I have to be patient? Do I set myself a time line and if nothing is even remotely being resolved continue with the divorce or what? I just don't know.

[elian]

I guess I can understand you feeling apprehensive about your parents knowing but it will be okay - go one day at a time and BOTH treat each other with as much love as you can.

If she likes women that doesn't necessarily mean that it is because of anything you did to her. I've always just wanted to love, when I was little it didn't much matter to me whether it was a boy or a girl - it was only much later that I learned to be ashamed of my feelings.

Her actions are not your fault, her actions are her own. She needs to be responsible for her own life.

It sounds like she has more issues than just her sexuality, has she ever been abused? Men did not treat me very kindly growing up and for a good part of my life, for some reason I kept going back to them, hoping that somehow they would give me love and acceptance..I now recognize that's not a healthy relationship. I still have feelings for both genders, I would be lying to myself if I said that I didn't - but now at least I recognize that a healthy relationship is when both people feel like that have equal power and responsibility. In a healthy relationship that partner is a companion and you do provide compassion, support and love to one another but you aren't looking for someone else to define who YOU are.

Since you have been more or less best friends for years hopefully you can still help each other to heal - even if you just remain friends.

I can tell you seem frustrated and disappointed, I wish I had more answers for you. I wish both of you love and healing, it will take time but hopefully things will work out okay, even if they aren't quite what you imagined.

[boots3236]

Elian, Thank you again for the quick response. I'm sitting at work waiting for replies that would give me something. In my profession, I have all the answers. If not I know where to get them. People look up to me. I always have a plan and I always have questions, but with this I'm in limbo. Last summer, when we were trying to work on things, this is same way I feel. I want to talk and get things out in the open. She wants to take it slow. I hate having to wait. In that respect I am very impatient. I want some sign from her that she really and trully wants our relationship to work. Like for instance tonight, she left work and went to meet a friend at a restaurant for dinner. Then shes going to meet another friend at another restaurant. After that, I don't know what shes going to do. I told her I won't ask where she is going or who she is with, for now. Eventually I would like to ask. I'm not calling or speaking to her for fear of her thinking I'm stalking her. I want to trust her and feel a sense of ease about all of this. But until just the other day, she has lied numerous times about all of it. Do I trust her? I don't know. I would like to see how tonight is going to work out.

The person she is out with right now has her kids and it will be an early night for them. However, this is my weekend with the kids and I am working so my parents are watching the two little ones for me. Whats my wife goiing to do for the rest of the evening? She told me at one point she is going to stay with her parents. Then she said she wasnt. This is the part I'm having problems with. i want to know where she is going to be! But I don't dare ask due to her thinking I'm reverting back to my old ways. My profession sucks as it has instilled upon me that there are: 1. No good people in this world 2. That I have a problem with trusting people (Yes i get lied to a lot in my profession) 3. With my wife and her coming out to me, and her lying to me about it for the past four months, yes I have some trust issues there.

[cherry88]

hey im just wishing you guys good luck. it seems like she is talking to you and confiding in you, she is being honest with you, and she has moved back in... seems thats all good...

also about being affectionate i just wanted to say that sometimes ive heard people say that when they feel they have to like repress certain emotoins or feelings or whatever they end up repressing like all of their emotoins and feelings.. like to where your wife maybe have been tryign to repress certain feelings and it sort of clogged up her ability to express -any- affection right now also with you.. cause shes just confused within herself and kind of separated from some of the stuff she feels...

maybe if she does want to stay with you, and you guys do work something out where she can still do some of the things she is wanting to, but feels happy with you too, maybe she will feel more relaxed and be able to be more affectionate too... just a thought cause when i heard people say that it made sense to me. and yes i think you can set a timeline definitely set a loose timeline together and you can check in periodically and sort of figiure out if you have been making progress. then you have a bit of structure and dont feel stuff is dragging on forever aimlessly. therapy is super useful to try while you are working it out.

anyway good luck i think its great shes confiding in you and talking to you. just saying i know it probaly feels super sucky but it seems like you guys are talking so that seems really good.. have you seen the website morethantwo it has some useful things on there. take care.

oh i just saw your recent post... just wanted to add i kind of dont think its unreasonable to want soem idea of what shes doing sometimes especially right now while you are in the time of working stuff out togehter and getting your trust back... that is something you guys might try to work out at some point later is how you want to handle stuff like that, what agreement you want to make about the expectations there. cuase its not totally unreasonable for you to be able to have some idea of what shes doing at times even if just for safety. or that you guys eventually agree on stuff thats ok or not ok to do right now and how you want to handle those things, so you also have some sense of control of your life. especially when you are tryign to get your trust back. so thats not unreasonable at all i think.. you guys just have to agree on some terms. (therapy might help with that) anyway good luck.

[elian]

I like to be an honest and relatively open person so no, I don't think it is right that she is lying but if she doesn't have the answers herself, how can she give them to you? Until she feels that she can trust you 100% you probably aren't going to get a 100% straight answer. She is obviously still very much conflicted about her own feelings and sharing them with other people. When you aren't confident about something you are always afraid of how people with judge you and fabricating things is a way to ease that fear..not necessarily a healthy way but something that people will resort to if they feel enough internal conflict.

When you have been told that you're better off dead for who you are attracted to it generates a lot of conflict within the person. Loving in a healthy way is hard work, it's NOT easy to forgive, it's not easy to live with uncertainty but it is worthwhile..as long as you are not enabling the person to continue a self-destructive behavior.

I'm not as worried about her sexual identity as I am about the drinking but people simply do not change overnight. If it took time for the situation to become this bad, it's going to take time and effort from both of you to heal. Healing may or may not mean the both of you coming back together. I know it must be hard to think of someone you've loved that long potentially changing. Fundamentally she is probably still the same person you've always known but she is coming to terms with a part of herself that she denied. If I knew my husband loved me and wanted me to be happy I couldn't think of a better person to confide in as long as you both can be honest.

I can't say that you'll always be together but maybe if she knows that you accept her she can STOP drinking and stop trying to hide. I can't say that I would be able to tolerate a lot of "dating" going on but who am I to judge? She feels that insecure about it that she has to lie.. I am not really qualified to give professional advice, I only know the little bit I've learned from my own personal experience. I have often thought that when we are in pain, regardless of sexual orientation sometimes we reach out to other people like us, for understanding, for acceptance.

All I can say is I wish you both a lot of love, if you can't say anything else nice about someone at least one bottom line thing we all share is that all beings want to be happy.

I am glad that someone else can care for your children in all of this because to be honest, if your children are school age. . I understand that adults need "adult time" but the children should figure prominently unless they are adults.

People have navigated through this before, with children and all and managed to have a healthy life. I'm going to sign off for a while because I need to take a rest and feel like it would be wise for someone else to offer another perspective, especially since I really am a single guy maybe another married couple can help.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btMJK8zWPzA

"Look to love,you may dream. And if it should leave then give it wings.
But if such a love is meant to be; Hope is home, and the heart is free."

[elian]

This is partly an issue of worth - it calls into question both your own individual self-worth and the worth of your relationship together. I submit to you that regardless of the circumstances and WHATEVER happens you are both still worthy, that what you built together is still worthy. We enter into relationship to help each other grow..

You mention growing up in a conservative religious background. This is one of my favorite quotes:

In the years immediately following the American Revolution, John Murray, widely acknowledged as the founder of American Universalism, spoke these stirring words:
“You may have but a small light, uncover it, let it shine, use it bring more light and understanding to the hearts and minds of men and women. Give them not hell but hope and courage. Do not push them deeper into their theological despair, but preach the kindness and everlasting love of God.”

The old testament God was full of wrath - floods, plagues, blowing up atomic bombs in the desert (did you think "pillar of salt" was just a metaphor?) But if you read carefully, Jesus was a different type of teacher. Jesus never sought to PUNISH anyone, and he never wanted to SEPARATE anyone, the whole point of his ministry was to try to bring people TOGETHER. People don't often see that for some reason. If your parents find out they are just going to have to understand, you are both adults - you both love each other very much, and you love your children - that hasn't changed.

None of us are "perfect", yes we do have to live with the consequences of our actions but we are always loved, and we are always worthy. Something does not have to be "perfect" in order to be beautiful.

Even in what we perceive as great suffering the universe does not waste a single drop of energy.

It is hard for human beings to think of someone like Jerry Sandusky as "worthy" but as much as we hate him, I bet God does not view Sandusky's life as wasted. Quite frankly it turned my stomach to read the testimony of some of the things he did to innocent boys. I went through some abuse myself and I wouldn't wish it on ANY child. No child should be forced to use their body as ransom for love, then be shamed into silence but more or less that is what he did. He abused his power.

We do the best we can to isolate someone like that so they can do no further harm. As long as he is in denial I don't think he will learn his lesson, but that is not for me to judge.

Maybe in having such a high profile case where the victims stood up and came forward it will encourage other people to act and not be ashamed. You can't be a whole person if part of you is isolated and broken, we need the support of healthy community to heal.

That scandal broke the Penn State community because it really was a culture of "football can do no wrong." The people were so proud of that program. It is disheartening to see how fallible our heroes can be. It only goes to show that no one is perfect but our community really can be strong enough to deal with those type of issues if we want it to be.

It will take time, and honestly some days I just can't see how we get there from here but it will be better when all people are valued and no one is ashamed. If those kids recognized their value to start with, if society recognized their value then Mr. Sandusky wouldn't have been able to take advantage of them in the first place.

[2bi2Bboring]

I appreciate your candor Elian, but I'm not sure talk of God and Jesus is going to be of much help here. I find such talk muddles the issues at hand rather than shedding light on the subject. I think the issue has enough to be sorted through without the Theological permutations. Those issues alone can take years to comes to terms with depending on the particular bend the sect in question puts on it. I think that with just the relationship issues at hand there is enough to deal with for now. There are some more immediate concerns about how this is going to shake out that should be addressed. Boots, your wife needs to know that you are behind her exploration of her sexuality. Your support is crucial to the two of you resuming a healthy sex life. You should sit down and talk about what the two of you are willing to compromise about and what needs to be done to keep you both happy.

I don't profess to be a degreed sex cousellor or even an amatuer one, I only have my own experiences to draw upon. I am a bi man, married to a bi woman, niether of us is living in denial or wishing we had something we don't. We have been together 13 years, we have a happy relationship that we both cherish deeply. We are open and honest and have very good communication in our own relationship. We have promised that we will always talk about our sexual feelings. We only play together, and only do things we have discussed prior to their occurance, we have no surprises. Trust is our cornerstone, and we don't do things to undermine that trust. There begins the answer to the question you posed to me about rules and boundaries.

The first thing I would talk with her about is what her attraction is, why this holds her so strongly and has made her feel she has to seek it outside the marriage rather than within it. YOU have to earn her trust as much as she has to regain yours for this to have any hope of working. These are not going to be quick questions you can work into other conversation. You don't want to seem controlling or overbearing either. The first thing you probably need to establish is that you want her to trust you. The two of you will have to come to some sort of agreement on how you are to proceed. Whether or not the "other woman" is to join you two in your bed or whether your wife will have her "girl time" alone with her friend, or a mix of the two. There are many possiblities to be considered. Not everyone has the courage or open-mindedness to tackle these issues, indeed most would feel betrayed by events already unfolded. But honestly, if this little hiatus since September is but a bump in the road in a 50 year marriage, you'll look back and say it was hard but you got through it. What this all really boils down to is having a bisexual spouse is not the end of the world and it doesn't HAVE to be the end of your marriage either. Many people go through their lives and never know what was the wedge that split their marriage, your wife respected you enough to tell you. That fact says a lot about you as a person, obviously she sees enough hope in that to give the two of you at least a chance to work it out. I truly hope the two of you take advantage of the second chance you have been given. This may be hard for the both of you, I would urge you to be understanding and patient. Not all paths are all things to those in your shoes, this may be the beginning of a very wonderful time for the two of you or it could be something infinitely less happy. Those choices are up to the two of you. I would suggest you and your wife talk about whether she is up to having you at least observe, there may come a point where you are asked to join in, don't bank on it the first time or depending on what you two decide maybe at all. That may seem a bit conservative for such a liberal social issue but you need to be open. In my own relationship we share partners because we enjoy that. But if you are invited to join, remember to try not to make it all about you. let the girls be the star of the show. You will get your time in the sun if that works out to be so. Be unselfish, be a good attentive lover, be gentle, be trustworthy, be concerned with THEIR pleasure not just your own. Good luck , let us know how it works out. I wish you the best!

[boots3236]

Well just a little update if I might add: Last Friday evening, I had to work an afternoon shift and then to another part time job after that, so I didn't get home until about four am on Saturday Morning. My mom and dad kept the kiddos because it was my weekend to have them. However, on Saturday my wife tells me that she went out with a friend from work. Then she goes to another bar with the same friend and her husband. Then goes out to dinner with another friend and then back to the previous bar she was just at after dinner. Wow! That is a lot of going out! Then Saturday, I had already planned on taking my kids out with some of my friends to a place with go carts, bowling and mini golf. I had invited my wife and she actually went. Surprise, surprise!! We all had a blast. Kids had tons of fun and so did I. Then while we were there, my wife gets another text from another friend to go out Saturday night. So my kids spent the night with the friends we were with. My wife and I were able to drive home by ourselves and talk, unrestricted. It was a good talk. Some stuff was cleared up and some I still wonder about. She doesn't like having these in depth conversations all the time. So her friend comes and picks her up and off they go. Sunday rolls around and she again already has plans to go out that evening. So she has dinner and then ends up at another bar that evening. All of this I of course find out the next day. Didn't have to ask her she just voluntarily told me. Which I thought was a step in the right direction. Monday comes along and she is off for the holiday and I had to work. So she takes the kids bowling. I'm working so I thought it would be good for her to spend some time with the kiddos. I get a call from her and she says that "friend" is going to be there and that I should come up and meet her, since I've only seen pictures and heard stories about her. I was very nervous and apprehensive. So she said only if you want to and so that there are no secrets. So I inquired as to why she would say the comment about no secrets. She told me that if her "friend" was her little secret she wouldn't want me to meet her and again she told me to come on up. So I head up there to meet her, nervous as hell. Palms sweating and all that stuff, like I was meeting a girl for our first date. Let me tell you, WOW!! She was gorgeous! Said my hello and introduced myself. Still kind of awkward on my end.
So I leave and the wife asks what I thought of her. Told her she was very cute. She then tells me that she talked to her about how I didn't mind if they "messed around." Wife said she was happy and it sounded like the wife was too.

I'm happy she is happy. I know its baby steps and we probably need to become friends first before anything special happens. Wife tells me that she and I, another friend from her work and her boyfriend and her "friend" and her husband are all supposed to go out on Friday night to dinner. Not to talk about anything but just to meet everyone. My wife's coworker knows about her and her "friend" but the boyfriend and her "friends" husband have no idea. I'm the only one that knows. Kind of nice being the only one who knows. Like I'm special. But to revert back to one of my above noted paragraphs, while we were having our talk on Saturday night before she went out. I asked, if she was comfortable to, to tell me some details. And she did!! I asked if she remembered the first time with her friend and she said there was alcohol involved so its kind of fuzzy. But she remembers that her "friend" was completely naked lying on the bed and my wife was in shorts and a t shirt. She told me that she has never been naked in front of her friend and that her friend has not ever pleasured her. My wife is the one that pleasured her friend. She said she was close enough to go down on her but still didn't feel comfortable or sure of herself to do so. And then she left to go out.
So with all that being said, not to get a rise out of anyone, but I thought it was wonderful that she felt comfortable enough to tell me these things. I'm hoping this is a step in the right direction for us. I remember, baby steps and lots and lots of patience.

[boots3236]

Ok, my wife and I have talked in great detail these past weeks. More than we have in a long time. But one thing I've learned from reading all of your posts is that you all had good or decent marriages and then opened up to the whole bisexual side of things. So I wanted to ask your opinions, I've asked her to put the bisexual thing on hold until we get our marriage where it should be and then after that lets explore it as a couple. Didn't get an answer but do you all think that was asking too much?

[elian]

I don't know boots, I guess that is really up to the two of you. If you are comfortable with her girlfriend does it bother you that they see each other? If I was comfortable with her girlfriend then I'd reiterate that I would like to work on the marriage and ask her to consider only seeing that one lady for now but that is just me.

Given a choice between feeling like they have to deny a part of who they are to be with me only - I would much rather my spouse be happy with another person I know and trust rather than sleeping with everybody. I might be able to tolerate another loving partner, I certainly could not tolerate anonymous sex with multiple partners.

I would also prefer honesty, If found out my spouse was denying who they slept with after they already knew I accepted and loved them I might consider leaving the relationship. Tell me, and I'll be happy for you. I may leave the relationship if my needs aren't being met but I will still be happy for you and I will respect you for speaking the truth.

Regardless of what happens with your marriage it sounds like you all can still remain friends which is very good for the sake of the children.

Like I said, I would be more worried about the drinking than her sexuality, although it may have taken her getting drunk to come to terms with the fact that she is attracted to women.

I'm not sure if I can really offer much more than that..