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darkeyes
Apr 26, 2012, 8:54 AM
Chat at work this morning about sexting.. me HOD brought it up over coffee cos he had spotted a piece in the Independent.. this..http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/mps-to-debate-the-growing-problem-of-young-girls-being-pressurised-into-sexting-7676015.html

It goes on.. we all know it goes on and when I was a kid had we had phones like nowadays it is quite possible I would have done just the same.. but I was never quite so daft and have never been one for allowing naughty pics to be taken.. u just never know where they will end up.

But we have had a few instances of parents getting hot under the collar about sexting... and a couple of times phones have been confiscated with very revealing pics on them of young girls in various states of undress and/or suggestive poses, some remarkably young... one ( I am told) taken in one of the art classes... big hoohah that caused.. we may not be able to open up a phone and quite rightly too but sometimes kids are stupid enough to stand their ground and argue with sext still on screen.. and not bright or quick enough to switch it off before someone pops up behind them and snatch it...but really while we know it happens we don't see a great deal of it.. I have never seen the worst of it and do not care to... but what we are sure of is that it is but the tip of the iceberg. It is one thing an adult doing it but kids as young as 13 and 14 (and maybe even younger) is beyond the pale.. God knows I am no prude, but I know just how such silliness can blight a child's life.. not only pics but video sexting goes on and some of that is really raunchy... and not just raunchy.. pretty explicit and lads cant say they've not done the deed when they are filmed on someone's phone doing it!!! At my daughter's school one girl was hoiked out of school by her parents because they found a vid of her giving oral to one of the older boys.. she was 13...

When we are young we think we know better.. we just don't think of consequences too often... modern media make it instant, graphic and permanent..once on the web it is on the web.. it is almost impossible to get it off.. as my best friend found out some years back.. and who knows when something a child did without thinking or as a result of peer pressure, or just the pressure of first love will in later life get up and bite them hard! Many people are very hard on the indiscretions of youth but most let it pass with time and live with it, and even forgive as long as it doesn't keep rearing its ugly head to (from their point of view) humiliate them.. sexting potentially stores up a lifetime of humiliation and difficulty for those in any sext and all those around them... mostly for those who were so daft when they were so young and thoughtless..

So it is education we need, but I am not sure that will do the trick.. it will help keep it down but it will never eliminate it completely...it is something at home we bang on about to our own kids.. and schools should certainly do more to make our children more aware that as with child and teen pregnancy, sexting is something that can follow them round until the day they die... it also has the potential to lead to tragedy.. yet even allowing for the fact that I and people like me explain in the greatest of detail the dangers and conseuquences, and kids know them and accept them..it still goes on and is still on the increase... what we see is only a miniscule part of the reality.. it is a problem to which there is no easy answer... discipline, education and use of the law are answers but they aren't the whole answer.. tbh I am not absolutely sure there is any answer... short of closing down the web, and making phones with cams illegal and locking the young up until they reach maturity... but no doubt they would find a way around that.. and such measures are far too draconian in any liberal society

Long Duck Dong
Apr 26, 2012, 9:21 AM
you may wanna edit the post to remove the references to sexual acts, since the people are underage......

recently at a school, there was a shitstorm at one of the schools concerning sexting and the images it involved ( nudity )...... and under NZ law and other countries, it falls under child porn laws cos of the age of the person

the trouble is we are ( as I have said many times ) creating a situation where the teenagers think that their rights apply, and that the freedom of expression also applies....
something that is pushed in NZ as people under the age of 16, are exempt from a lot of criminal prosecution, but the mistakes they make, can affect them in ways they can not imagine.

however, its not just sexting that is the issue... there are clips of bullying and violence that is being filmed and put on you tube as well... school kids, proud of the fact that they beat some person near to death, posting their crimes on the net......and yeah, its being used in criminal investigations in NZ as well as the sexting

it reminds me of the * sexualising teenagers * thread.... and there was a article that I shared with DD the other day, about a youth counsellor seeing record numbers of teenagers screwed up by the sexualising they were encouraged to do, by their peers and parents .....

once again, we have created a world that is fast imploding under the idea of my rights to expression, freedom of choice, the rights of the children... and its not working as well as people want to believe, its back firing.... and any attempt to stop it, will be seen as infringement of rights..... I see it as destruction of lives and reps....... just look at tyler clementi and what happened there.....

btw, current report in NZ, we hold the 2nd highest youth suicide rate in the world ( we have 4.3 mill people ) 1st is the us..... it begs the question, how much more are we going to fail the children, cos rights are more important than a life

darkeyes
Apr 26, 2012, 10:37 AM
Wont bother with an edit ta for the word Duckie.. I think as an example or the worst of sexting it will do fine where it is... many parents dont have a clue about sexting and I think they should be made more aware..

Sexualising kids and what we are talking about, which is a far more sinister development of what kids have always done isn't the same thing although there is a linkage.. the young push sexual boundaries..want to be more adult.. and attract other kids.. impress.. they are growing up and we have to be careful about restricting their rights to express themselves. It isn't kids we should be educating about their dress, it is adults and their often small minded and paranoid attitudes to sex and children's right to free expression. Of course a line has to be drawn and parents ultimately have to draw it but there are as many ideas of where that line is as there are are grains of sand on a beach..

I instinctively recoil when I hear the expression "restrict rights" but I do take your point.. however, in the longer term I think by restricting a child's right to free expression which may save a life or two potentially endangers others as the frustration of stifled free expression of a whole generation may prove that by restricting their rights as children, we have lit the touch paper of a powder keg which will explode in our faces, their faces and the faces of generations yet to come.. and by stifling that free expression we do untold harm to the imagination and well being of a society...even in time the rights of adults in that society. I think u and I have different ideas on that also..but we do restrict the free expression of children as it is in so many different ways..parents do, schools do.. society does it all the time.. and often it is right that we do so.. but do we really want more? It is arguable and while I do see your point it is not one with which I can bring myself to agree at least without a great deal of reasoning, justification and debate. Too often we restrict rights because of what people feel subjectively.. not because there are sound and justifiable reasons for doing so.

To some extent, sexting is an extension of free expression.. kids will push boundaries and do all sorts of things and with the development of technologically advanced cam fones, computers and the availability of the internet, the development of the young doing what they do with these new technologies should not surprise us.. yet it seems to surprise the most free minded of technophiles and libertarians at times. While it is an extension of free expression, sexting is one which they have increasingly little control over. Once a pic or vid is on someone else's phone it is open season and a person's free expression whether he or she be adult or child potentially becomes the erotic and perverted dream of people around the world.. and they can do nothing to stop it. It becomes a sinister and uncontrollable runaway train subject to the whims of the thoughtless, the sinister and the perverted with all the immediate and future dangers which exist and consequences which may well occur.

.Governments, schools and parents, all adults in fact, have to fully involve themselves in getting the message over to the young just how serious is the threat to them and to a great degree this spills over to the young as a whole. Parents have to seriously consider what kind of phone they give to their child if at all..there are sound reasons for kids to have phones and we all know what they are.. how sophisticated a phone and what its features must be is quite another issue. Do we criminalise kids for letting themselves be photographed or filmed in raunchy poses or worse? I'd hate to think so, but criminalising those who receive and pass on such material is certainly an option and law already exists to deal with it.. whether we require more law is open to question.

Can we eradicate the problem entirely? I doubt it, but wehave to do what is possible in the interests of the young and their safety and well being for now and futures generations. Just what is possible is something none of our societies have yet even begun to consider seriously.

csrakate
Apr 26, 2012, 10:54 AM
Far more important than our right to free speech is the fact that kids do not have the capacity to make informed decisions. Their brains have not developed the part that enables them to do so at this point in their lives. So while we may be infringing on certain "rights" by somehow making "sexting" unavailable, we would be doing them a great service if we could ever figure out how to do so.

I am very concerned about how frivolously most teens look at social media. They put out parts of their lives that may feel like sharing right now....but little do they know that they are setting themselves up for some serious problems in the future. Aside from the fallout of sexting and what it can do to one's reputation, 37% of employers look at Facebook. How many "party" shots do they need to see to let them know that this person is not a viable employee? I can promise you that not a single teen thinks of this when they post that funny shot of them vomiting in the toilet after a night of partying...much less realize the ramifications of sending out naughty pics to a boy/girl friend thinking it will go no further.

DuckiesDarling
Apr 26, 2012, 11:04 AM
Far more important than our right to free speech is the fact that kids do not have the capacity to make informed decisions. Their brains have not developed the part that enables them to do so at this point in their lives. So while we may be infringing on certain "rights" by somehow making "sexting" unavailable, we would be doing them a great service if we could ever figure out how to do so.

I am very concerned about how frivolously most teens look at social media. They put out parts of their lives that may feel like sharing right now....but little do they know that they are setting themselves up for some serious problems in the future. Aside from the fallout of sexting and what it can do to one's reputation, 37% of employers look at Facebook. How many "party" shots do they need to see to let them know that this person is not a viable employee? I can promise you that not a single teen thinks of this when they post that funny shot of them vomiting in the toilet after a night of partying...much less realize the ramifications of sending out naughty pics to a boy/girl friend thinking it will go no further.

Bingo, and all to often we will hear about it after the fact with a "I didn't know" or "It's not fair" or "It was a joke".

csrakate
Apr 26, 2012, 11:14 AM
I do agree that parents MUST be more informed and by all means, they need to be more aware of what their kids are doing with technology. Far too often you will hear a parent say that they had no idea their kids were doing these things. The parent should know what is all too available to their kids and take measures, at the VERY least, to talk to their kids and let them know what is and is not acceptable....and they should damn well check up behind them. Freedom of expression is one thing....allowing this expression to cause one's child harm is another.

Long Duck Dong
Apr 26, 2012, 11:18 AM
couple of questions fran....

with a youth suicide rate at the second highest in the world.... do you not think that something needs to be done now.... not in 20 years time.... as we are already reaping what we have sown...

the main reasons for youth suicide, are understood to be 1) bullying, 2) kids that have lost control of their own lives ( too much freedom, no boundaries ) and 3) inability to cope with the issues like failing at school, broken hearts, broken homes, stress etc ....

I can understand the first one... its the other two that are seriously of concern cos they are symptoms of the society that NZ has created and is continuing to push as the right thing to do ( using txtspeak in school projects is acceptable now in some schools and some schools are requiring Ipads for students ... $800 per ipad )... and the one that worries me, is the pushing for the internet to become a basic human right ( no more banning the children from the computer and the net for bullying and harassment of other people )

what the kids do, is of no surprise to me.... but the fact that we are creating a wider base for the children to try and be a part of, is part of the issue..... and yes I bear in mind that I grew up in the days of no net or no phones.... and no cyberbullying or sexting... so I can see two worlds at play, fran.... and no I am not saying that the *dark ages * are better cos they had their own fair share of issues..... but the new world is one where more and more teenagers are not able to handle things, cope as well and make informed choices as easily....

in NZ, they have already started to reverse much of what they created ( tightening of the license requirements cos of the high teen death rate from speeding ) looking at reversing the drinking age back to 20 etc...... and sooner or later.... they will be looking at treating teenagers as adults in regards to sexting.......
its not about restricting freedom of rights.... its about trying to stop so many youth suicides and deaths.... and addressing the failures in the system that are allowing them to continue

as for your remark, fran of changing a few rules to save one or two children, may be the wrong thing to do.... in 2009 the youth suicide rate was 29 per 100k youth....we are not talking about 1-2 lives.. we are talking about saving 50-60 lives a year... and still losing 200+ plus youth.....
I really question at times, if you are really in touch with reality with some of the remarks you make......

sexting is just one aspect of a society gone wrong..... something needs to be done and fast.... not in 20 years when the damage has been done

justlooking222
Apr 26, 2012, 11:45 AM
I really question at times, if you are really in touch with reality with some of the remarks you make....

slam theidea not the person

darkeyes
Apr 26, 2012, 12:21 PM
couple of questions fran....

with a youth suicide rate at the second highest in the world.... do you not think that something needs to be done now.... not in 20 years time.... as we are already reaping what we have sown...

the main reasons for youth suicide, are understood to be 1) bullying, 2) kids that have lost control of their own lives ( too much freedom, no boundaries ) and 3) inability to cope with the issues like failing at school, broken hearts, broken homes, stress etc ....

I can understand the first one... its the other two that are seriously of concern cos they are symptoms of the society that NZ has created and is continuing to push as the right thing to do ( using txtspeak in school projects is acceptable now in some schools and some schools are requiring Ipads for students ... $800 per ipad )... and the one that worries me, is the pushing for the internet to become a basic human right ( no more banning the children from the computer and the net for bullying and harassment of other people )

what the kids do, is of no surprise to me.... but the fact that we are creating a wider base for the children to try and be a part of, is part of the issue..... and yes I bear in mind that I grew up in the days of no net or no phones.... and no cyberbullying or sexting... so I can see two worlds at play, fran.... and no I am not saying that the *dark ages * are better cos they had their own fair share of issues..... but the new world is one where more and more teenagers are not able to handle things, cope as well and make informed choices as easily....

in NZ, they have already started to reverse much of what they created ( tightening of the license requirements cos of the high teen death rate from speeding ) looking at reversing the drinking age back to 20 etc...... and sooner or later.... they will be looking at treating teenagers as adults in regards to sexting.......
its not about restricting freedom of rights.... its about trying to stop so many youth suicides and deaths.... and addressing the failures in the system that are allowing them to continue

as for your remark, fran of changing a few rules to save one or two children, may be the wrong thing to do.... in 2009 the youth suicide rate was 29 per 100k youth....we are not talking about 1-2 lives.. we are talking about saving 50-60 lives a year... and still losing 200+ plus youth.....
I really question at times, if you are really in touch with reality with some of the remarks you make......

sexting is just one aspect of a society gone wrong..... something needs to be done and fast.... not in 20 years when the damage has been done
I referred to a life or two because of your reference at the end of your first post, Duckie.. of course it will be more than that, but why NZ has the 2cd highest on the planet has at least as much to do with the social structure, homelessness, unemployment, lack of opportunity, poverty and despair as with the rights of children.. it certainly is here although governments seem determined to ignore it.. but such problems have been getting worse since the 1970s for more reasons than simply because we have given rights to human beings whether young or old..it is no coincidence that since the 1970s that in the UK at least we have seen the problems u mention for New Zealand become so much more acute with every passing decade.. we have to look at the whole not simply one small if important aspect.. I hold to my original point.. rights aren't really the issue or if they are an issue they don't have anywhere near the importance you attach to them but kid's problems have their root in far more deeply ingrained societal problems.. we too have a high suicide rate for the young.. far higher than down south... rights have nothing to do with that high rate...that happens for other far more fundamental reasons..

About sexting, I have no said at any time we have to wait 20 years before we do something.. that is immediate and has to have something done about it now...we can do so much... but I doubt we can cure the patient completely... there is so much more I could say but when push comes to shove I am not the problem however much u believe me and my "fantasies" are.. I live in reality ok tyvm... it is why at least in large part I think as I do...

darkeyes
Apr 26, 2012, 2:00 PM
I can promise you that not a single teen thinks of this when they post that funny shot of them vomiting in the toilet after a night of partying...much less realize the ramifications of sending out naughty pics to a boy/girl friend thinking it will go no further.
I have always been pretty free and easy as u know Mumsie..I've never been whiter than white...but never have I been so stupid as to pose for or allow naughty be taken.. pics of me bein' daft an acting the fool r 1 thing.. wiv me kit off or "at it" quite another..... but even b4 the advent of the social media I did have some scruples and a little common sense.. I can trust me with pics of me... what other peeps do with them is something which is out of my control... something me m8 found out very much to her cost... and as a lot of kids are finding out now... and that's the message we somehow have to get sunk in2 ther luffly lil heads... and their parents.. and anyone else who will listen..

csrakate
Apr 26, 2012, 2:09 PM
Unfortunately, most teens are not like you, my lil tart. Most teens are not capable of seeing the big picture...they get caught up in the excitement of the moment and unfortunately, they tend to trust way too much. I just ran across this quote as I was reading the news on the internet....

"According to research published by the U.K.'s Lancet, it's at age 24 that our brains stop maturing. Only then, the researchers say, are our brains not influenced by "exciting or stressful conditions" and can finally rationally assess risk."

I'm not saying we should ban kids from texting, but we need to quit desensitizing sex where our kids are concerned. We need to remember that they are not all grown up even if their bodies are. We need to make sure that they grow into their sexuality in their own time and stop making it OK for them to act otherwise. We need for them to grow up with the ability to separate passion from impulse.

Ebonybifemme7
Apr 26, 2012, 2:18 PM
Love it...but...its nothing like the real thing.

darkeyes
Apr 26, 2012, 3:12 PM
I grew up pretty unrestricted and had a ball... and have always wanted the young to have a ball just like I did.. but adopting one and raising another child has made me look at the world through different eyes.. and I detect the change in me.. I am still much the same free spirit, but the job of being a mum isn't easy to marry with what I've been, what I am and the things I have always believed about children.. I'm not too sure the two can be reconciled completely.. I have changed a great deal and think differently about children and what we as adults, and as parents should do for them.. but what I hae not stopped believeing about is that whatever we do must be for them..not for us.... far too many of the things that grown ups do for children are not for the children at all...

The lil tart is conflicted Mumsie.. and a lifetime of being so free and easy and carefree and the care and concern for two beautiful young kids has changed me and my outlook... essentially I still believe in the same things, and I am trying to reconcile what I have always believed into the reality of motherhood.. a condition I never wanted, didn't ask for and yet find is a condition I would never have missed for the world now.. but while I am conflicted... and relish my role as Kate's partner and the other mother of her children I am struggling not to fall into the trap so many fall into as they raise their children... becoming more conservative, less imaginative, more authoritarian and shaping their children into what parents and society want them to be moulded into.. to some degree I think it is an uphill battle.. but I'm hanging in there and am still trying to reconcile principle and idealism with reality.. and it is anything but easy...

I dont have and never will have all the answers.. but one thing I am sure of... all the old, failed, conservative solutions to the problems of children aren't going to solve the issue of sexting.. kneejerks about rights wont do it in that I am sure... but being so conflicted with past and present I find it so much more difficult to think with clarity about quite what we should do.. on this issue I seem to be able to see what we shouldn't do far more easily than envision what we should..

Gearbox
Apr 26, 2012, 3:20 PM
Thank Christ there were no webcams and cam-phones around when I was a nipper. My 'private fun' might be on some peado site.:yikes2:
Thing is, it's all just TOO handy and tempting to not mess about taking pics of your stuff. Kids explore their bodies and sex way before we'd think it wise to, and some of us never stop. It's perfectly natural!
The only downside to present technology is that it provides evidence that may never go away! You can't just have a 'moment of madness' and put it down to experience, if it 'accidentally' ends up on the net. Bare in mind that that same technology is a relatively 'new' branch of eroticism that's in the hands of most children these days.

It will NOT go away! Never ever! Unless we invoke technology to spy on every phone's memory remotely. That's scary! It might already be in action (who knows? Conspiracy oh yes!lol).
So fek that! How do we teach our lovely children to go against their nature and put the camera away without Big Brother's help?

falcondfw
Apr 26, 2012, 3:48 PM
you may wanna edit the post to remove the references to sexual acts, since the people are underage......

recently at a school, there was a shitstorm at one of the schools concerning sexting and the images it involved ( nudity )...... and under NZ law and other countries, it falls under child porn laws cos of the age of the person

the trouble is we are ( as I have said many times ) creating a situation where the teenagers think that their rights apply, and that the freedom of expression also applies....
something that is pushed in NZ as people under the age of 16, are exempt from a lot of criminal prosecution, but the mistakes they make, can affect them in ways they can not imagine.

however, its not just sexting that is the issue... there are clips of bullying and violence that is being filmed and put on you tube as well... school kids, proud of the fact that they beat some person near to death, posting their crimes on the net......and yeah, its being used in criminal investigations in NZ as well as the sexting

it reminds me of the * sexualising teenagers * thread.... and there was a article that I shared with DD the other day, about a youth counsellor seeing record numbers of teenagers screwed up by the sexualising they were encouraged to do, by their peers and parents .....

once again, we have created a world that is fast imploding under the idea of my rights to expression, freedom of choice, the rights of the children... and its not working as well as people want to believe, its back firing.... and any attempt to stop it, will be seen as infringement of rights..... I see it as destruction of lives and reps....... just look at tyler clementi and what happened there.....

btw, current report in NZ, we hold the 2nd highest youth suicide rate in the world ( we have 4.3 mill people ) 1st is the us..... it begs the question, how much more are we going to fail the children, cos rights are more important than a life

Not sure about suicide rate here in the US Duck, but I totally agree with the society we are creating for kids. We have the same issues here in the US. Kids run wild at school, because they know the teachers can't do anything about it except give them detention, which they skip.
Any time they start to get in trouble they start screaming about their rights.
My kids know, they have the rights I give em until they move out of the house. One of mine stole something from a store (It was a hot wheels car). After paddling his butt, I marched him right back into the store and up to the manager. That's the way parents used to parent. None of this garbage about 12 year olds having free speech rights.

falcondfw
Apr 26, 2012, 3:56 PM
I grew up pretty unrestricted and had a ball... and have always wanted the young to have a ball just like I did.. but adopting one and raising another child has made me look at the world through different eyes.. and I detect the change in me.. I am still much the same free spirit, but the job of being a mum isn't easy to marry with what I've been, what I am and the things I have always believed about children.. I'm not too sure the two can be reconciled completely.. I have changed a great deal and think differently about children and what we as adults, and as parents should do for them.. but what I hae not stopped believeing about is that whatever we do must be for them..not for us.... far too many of the things that grown ups do for children are not for the children at all...

The lil tart is conflicted Mumsie.. and a lifetime of being so free and easy and carefree and the care and concern for two beautiful young kids has changed me and my outlook... essentially I still believe in the same things, and I am trying to reconcile what I have always believed into the reality of motherhood.. a condition I never wanted, didn't ask for and yet find is a condition I would never have missed for the world now.. but while I am conflicted... and relish my role as Kate's partner and the other mother of her children I am struggling not to fall into the trap so many fall into as they raise their children... becoming more conservative, less imaginative, more authoritarian and shaping their children into what parents and society want them to be moulded into.. to some degree I think it is an uphill battle.. but I'm hanging in there and am still trying to reconcile principle and idealism with reality.. and it is anything but easy...

I dont have and never will have all the answers.. but one thing I am sure of... all the old, failed, conservative solutions to the problems of children aren't going to solve the issue of sexting.. kneejerks about rights wont do it in that I am sure... but being so conflicted with past and present I find it so much more difficult to think with clarity about quite what we should do.. on this issue I seem to be able to see what we shouldn't do far more easily than envision what we should..

Fran, you old softie you.
I agree with your first paragraph. It is not easy being a parent, by any means. And oftentimes when adults say "I'm doing it for the children.", what they really mean is "I'm doing it so I can live vicariously through my kids and do all the things I wanted to do but never had the guts to try."
I have found that at least with my kids, if you do stuff for them, they become lazy and expect you to do it. If you teach them how to do it, they get a great sense of accomplishment and pride, which every kid needs. So, I have always tried to see if it was something I could back off on and teach, instead of do.
Kids need guidance. They need to know right from wrong. They need to know the things society will accept. They need to know how to get along in the world. Yes, you can rock the boat. Just don't tip the boat over.
As for the sexting, once the genie is out of the bottle ... There will always be kids that do it, now that they have the capability. That feeling of invincibility they have will lead them to do stupid things and record them. Never thinking that when they post that drinking video to facebook, a lot of employers will close their doors to hiring them.

darkeyes
Apr 26, 2012, 5:07 PM
Thank Christ there were no webcams and cam-phones around when I was a nipper. My 'private fun' might be on some peado site.:yikes2:
Thing is, it's all just TOO handy and tempting to not mess about taking pics of your stuff. Kids explore their bodies and sex way before we'd think it wise to, and some of us never stop. It's perfectly natural!
The only downside to present technology is that it provides evidence that may never go away! You can't just have a 'moment of madness' and put it down to experience, if it 'accidentally' ends up on the net. Bare in mind that that same technology is a relatively 'new' branch of eroticism that's in the hands of most children these days.

It will NOT go away! Never ever! Unless we invoke technology to spy on every phone's memory remotely. That's scary! It might already be in action (who knows? Conspiracy oh yes!lol).
So fek that! How do we teach our lovely children to go against their nature and put the camera away without Big Brother's help?
Hold me hands up 'ere Gear... it isnt quite true that there r no naughty pics whatsoever..

...I have elsewhere mentioned a few polaroids me sister took a long time ago very sneakily..I've never seen them.. she wont let me.. Kate has and thinks I was a right tart when younger.. just hope that when she pops her clogs I can get 2 those bloody pics b4 ne 1 else... 2 reasons.. 1 2 remind meself of a rather nice afternoon alfresco wiv a very nice boy but most of all so I can take a match to the damn things...

..also..wen I 1st got a digicam I used 2 take pics of me bootie... handy trick wiv mirrors.. and also did this wen I 1st got a cam on me fone...or have them taken sometimes...on me own fone.. toldya..am not stupid!!! Rather like me bootie and am a tadge vain bout it... but it wud b a ver smart person who cud ID me from pics of me bum!!! I was an adult by this time but still..I made sure I kept control of distribution wich meant they r on disc in a cabinet in the computer room at home under lock an' key!!! An wen I'm a lil ole lady, I will still have them to remind mesel that 1ce upon a time I wosnt haff bad an that lil white haired ole wrinklie lookin back at me in the mirror 1ce had an arse 2 die for!!!!:tongue: An' then I will weep....

darkeyes
Apr 26, 2012, 5:31 PM
Fran, you old softie you.
I agree with your first paragraph. It is not easy being a parent, by any means. And oftentimes when adults say "I'm doing it for the children.", what they really mean is "I'm doing it so I can live vicariously through my kids and do all the things I wanted to do but never had the guts to try."
I have found that at least with my kids, if you do stuff for them, they become lazy and expect you to do it. If you teach them how to do it, they get a great sense of accomplishment and pride, which every kid needs. So, I have always tried to see if it was something I could back off on and teach, instead of do.
Kids need guidance. They need to know right from wrong. They need to know the things society will accept. They need to know how to get along in the world. Yes, you can rock the boat. Just don't tip the boat over.
As for the sexting, once the genie is out of the bottle ... There will always be kids that do it, now that they have the capability. That feeling of invincibility they have will lead them to do stupid things and record them. Never thinking that when they post that drinking video to facebook, a lot of employers will close their doors to hiring them.
One of the greatest pleasures of my life has been teaching our kids to play musical instruments and to enjoy it.. playing a musical instrument is something u cannot do for anyone else so I agree with what u say wholeheartedly... and we have the most wonderful, family fun jam sessions imaginable. The last thing I want is to live through the kids.. nor do I want them being what I want them to be.. my only dreams for them are for eternal joy and happiness, for them to be who and what they wish to be, to fulifill their own dreams and desires, to maximise their potential and so be the best human beings that they can be..

..as for that genie..it is out of the bottle and we can't shove it back in.. nor do we want to.. but we do want to try and minimise the harmful effects it may have especially upon our children.. that is the challenge we face..

Long Duck Dong
Apr 26, 2012, 11:46 PM
I referred to a life or two because of your reference at the end of your first post, Duckie.. of course it will be more than that, but why NZ has the 2cd highest on the planet has at least as much to do with the social structure, homelessness, unemployment, lack of opportunity, poverty and despair as with the rights of children.. it certainly is here although governments seem determined to ignore it.. but such problems have been getting worse since the 1970s for more reasons than simply because we have given rights to human beings whether young or old..it is no coincidence that since the 1970s that in the UK at least we have seen the problems u mention for New Zealand become so much more acute with every passing decade.. we have to look at the whole not simply one small if important aspect.. I hold to my original point.. rights aren't really the issue or if they are an issue they don't have anywhere near the importance you attach to them but kid's problems have their root in far more deeply ingrained societal problems.. we too have a high suicide rate for the young.. far higher than down south... rights have nothing to do with that high rate...that happens for other far more fundamental reasons..

About sexting, I have no said at any time we have to wait 20 years before we do something.. that is immediate and has to have something done about it now...we can do so much... but I doubt we can cure the patient completely... there is so much more I could say but when push comes to shove I am not the problem however much u believe me and my "fantasies" are.. I live in reality ok tyvm... it is why at least in large part I think as I do...


fran, most of the suicides are not in the * poverty * aspect of the population... and that is what is interesting..... its a bit like a lot of the teen road deaths are not in old junkers, they are in modded street cars driven by educated kids that are often working.....

it is not unusual for people to immediately blame homelessness, unemployment, lack of opportunity, poverty and despair, but the numbers simply are not supporting it.... as a good number of the teens are in 2 parent homes, at school and average - medium well off or educated and working....... not long term unemployed, broken home, drug and alcohol abuse situations......

most kids in poverty do not have cell phones, internet, sky tv, cars etc... but nor do they have the issues of cyber bullying and sexting at the levels that we are seeing.....

you buy a kid a cellphone and give them unsupervised access to the net, and you open the door to sexting and cyberbullying.... and yes you can blame the parents for not supervising the kids and for giving them access to the net and cell phones but the rights of the parents to supervise the children has been removed under the rights to privacy acts in NZ.... and schools are starting to require that the children have net access and cellphones.... the schools that are refusing to allow cellphones in school and unsupervised net access at school, are seeing much lower rates of suicide, sexting and cyberbullying... the families that do not have the net, are not having to deal with the issues of cyberbullying ......

there is a pattern there, fran....
cellphones + plus net access = increased rates of cyberbullying, sexting etc......
no cellphone, no net = equals lower rates of cyberbullying and sexting......
higher rate of suicide in average to medium income families...
lower rate of suicide in low to average income families
higher rate of driving deaths with working, educated teenagers
lower rate of driving deaths with unemployed teenagers.....

rights to privacy laws
lowered drinking age
restriction of prosecution for teenagers under 16

there has been a increase in issues with teenagers and the way its been dealt with is to increase their freedom and restrict the ability of society to deal with the issues.... now the NZ government is starting to restrict the rights in order to stem the issues... and fighting the greenies constantly, as the greenies are adamant that infringing on rights is not going to work... but the greenies are the same ones that want the parents locked up for the teenagers actions... can you say, shift the responsibility for ones actions ???????

recently and I believe I mentioned it to you, the NZ youth commissioner spat the dummy at the police for using live rounds in loaded guns when they arrested two teenagers that had done a crime spree of burglaries and stealing cars on a 800 km / 4 day stint..... the cops stopped the teens using road spikes, and found the teens had loaded weapons in the car with them....... the NZ youth commissioner was not impressed as the way it may traumatise the teenagers at being arrested at gun point

I am curious, fran...... how blind can people be...... doesn't the youth commissioner remember the youths that laid into a cop with machete, or the ones that beat a cop with a metal car or the ones that tried to run down two cops or the cop that had glass bottles thrown at them by teenage boy racers and recieved cuts to their face and neck, or the cop that was attacked in their own home by teenagers, or the cop that was beaten severely at a road stop by teenagers in a car....

yeah we can blame poverty, unemployment etc etc... or we can face facts, its out of control, unable to cope, teenagers that are at risk, and all people can do, is constantly find reasons to blame for the issues, rather than deal with the teenagers and why they are out of control.......

Long Duck Dong
Apr 27, 2012, 2:00 AM
actually,.... I am going to stop right here, and apologise for something.... my issue is not with you, fran.....and I am sorry if it appears that way.....

my frustration comes from personal experience with trying desperately to save lives and running into wall after wall after wall cos of things like the privacy act etc.... losing the teens and then seeing people immediately look to blame the system and the agencies for NOT doing anything.... but in a lot of cases, the agencies can't do anything, their hands are tied by the legal laws and shit....

my frustration also comes from the many stories of the teenagers that reach out for help and support and find that they can not get it, cos the laws and rules prevent agencies from stepping in to help the teenagers.......

its like with the bullying.... in a lot of cases, the schools are powerless to stop the bullying as they can not expel the bullies as the bullies are protected by the right to a education and the schools can not expel the bullies unless the bullies have a alternative school to go to..... so its the victim of the bullies that realises that they are not just victims of the bullies, they are victims of a system that is protecting the bullies as well....... and that is part of the reason why we are dealing with bullying victims committing suicide.....
while home schooling is a option for victims of bullying, the laws actually stop most students from leaving school and learning from the reality safety of their own homes, as the law requires students to attend school or be regarded as truants... and then the parents become responsible for not pushing their own children to attend school... and get bullied more.........

you are right in that there is no easy answer on how to fix the issues..... and yes, I agree that there will never be a fix.... merely a shifting of issues as society advances and changes at a ever increasing rate......
I am 41, and I have watched society and technology change around me as a incredible rate.... so its not always society, the laws and the parents that are at fault either..... much of society is buffered from the issues by the changes because they are not involved in a lot of what goes on.... and most of the people that make the laws and decisions at the top.... are not people that have grown up in today's society, they grew up in yesterdays society......

yes, I agree that returning to the way things were, 30 years ago, will not work..... they are yesturyears laws and rules and woefully outdated for a ever advancing world.... and some of NZ's laws date from the 1950's, such as the adoption and child care laws... stupid laws that will stop many LGBT people being foster parents / adoptive parents, while more recent laws allow for children to be placed in foster homes with sex offenders and yes, they end up abused.......

I used to think that the idea of students learning from home via a computer generated classroom, was a better idea than students at schools, cos it would reduce issues like bullying at schools....... now I look at cybering bullying and sexting and other issues like lack of society interaction away from the net and computers and realise that my idea has flaws..... but its become a reality..... a very flawed reality......

now when I watch movies like surrogate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogates_(film).... I am beginning to wonder if that is the future we face... and if I am actually becoming like the dinosaurs that are out of touch with the reality of life, ( like my parents are ) and thinking about making laws and changes that are long over due, and far too late to be effective......

I am getting to the point where this old fossil is becoming a relic of days gone by and getting past my use by date..... and handing the torch over to people like you and the kids.....so yeah.... I can only hope that things get better cos in a lot of ways, my generation did not have it as good as they may think..... technology and modern medicine are godsends.... but unless my generation realise that they need to get back in touch with the reality of society and the changes that are happening, we are doomed to live in the past and think that my generation grew up in the * ideal * society... and if that is so true, why did we change it, the first change we got ......

darkeyes
Apr 27, 2012, 5:59 AM
Duckie.. I have not said that we can blame poverty alone any more than we can blame sexting alone for the suicide rate in any country, any more than we can blame it for crime.. what I am saying is that when looking at suicide we have to look at the whole picture.. not simply lay responsibility on one aspect of our societies.. that our societies have structural problems is undoubted but governments seem to be unwilling or unable to address those problems.. of course none has a magic wand, yet governments in this country since the late 1970s have consistently pursued policies which have divided society and created haves and have nots where increasing numbers of have nots have no hope of ever dragging themselves out of their predicament..even in times of prosperity the Thatcherite (yes the influence of the old bat is still here!!) trickle down has hardly trickled down very far.. millions remained in poverty and with no hope of joining in the prosperity of the great majority.

We see the rich and powerful thieve and make their easy money and get away literally with murder and gain riches apparently easily without much difficulty.. we have seen the rise of avarice, envy and greed throughout our societies and a lessening of the old community spirit and support that existed in our towns and cities up until the 1970s.. less gentleness and compassion and an increase in contempt throughout society for those who have less.. and a blaming of those who have less for the ills of the world. We see the win at all costs attitude permeate throughout society, and an increase in ruthlessness, and the creation of stresses which have made it inevitable that the more fragile among us, denied support that was once there within communities and is fast disappearing from society as a whole through the dismantling of structures which enabled those in despair for whatever reason, to survive and have some hope of a life.. and I have deliberately not included the problems of racism, ghettoisation, xenophobia, class, sexuality and narcotics all of which play their part in making our societies less trusting, less compassionate, less equal..less.. well.. less...

...so we have seen and are still seeing society increasingly cast the weak, millions of whom are not in poverty, to the wolves and encourage the strong to take from or ride rough shod over them without mercy and allow those least able to care for themselves to their own devices, feeling unworthy, unloved and afforded little respect.. fractured, bleeding, hurting in body and soul... and in our children, we have seen this shrinking of the compassionate society reflected also, and it is not surprising that they, the most unprepared and weakest sector of our society, immature, impressionable, often bullied and intimidated by peers, "betters" and elders alike, not listened to and ignored, often abused and preyed upon by peers, parents and other adults, given no self belief, disrespected and not encouraged to respect themselves, see such a bleak future that the stresses of living have created in their lives, decide to end their internal and external, unremitting misery...

Child and youth suicide, like the suicide of any human being is about far more than poverty.. children, even the most damaged are remarkably resilient and most survive the traumas childhood often involves however bad these are.. most become relatively law abiding whatever their wealth status, employed or otherwise, and some become criminals or addicts, but for some, all too many, life is too much.. sexting is but another mountain they have to climb and that will play its part like all the other factors in making the lives of the young miserable, and for too many, untenable..

csrakate
Apr 27, 2012, 10:52 AM
my frustration comes from personal experience with trying desperately to save lives and running into wall after wall after wall cos of things like the privacy act etc.... losing the teens and then seeing people immediately look to blame the system and the agencies for NOT doing anything.... but in a lot of cases, the agencies can't do anything, their hands are tied by the legal laws and shit....



While I admire your devotion to helping teens, LDD, suicide is not just a result of peer pressure, bullying and sexting. There is so much more at play and a lot of teen suicide has to do the with very fact that I mentioned in my earlier post...the fact that teens are incapable of making informed decisions and often act on impulse. Add a bit of true, deep depression and you have a suicide waiting to happen. It's not all about how society has failed teens. The "laws and shit" that you rail against are also responsible for keeping teens and adults from being committed against their will if the need doesn't exist. It's frustrating, I know....believe me I do....but there is so much more involved with suicide and as sad as it is, sometimes it just can't be stopped.

Jobelorocks
Apr 27, 2012, 11:27 AM
See, I have seen people think that sexting is just sending naughty pictures, but it is also sending text messages with dirty scenarios. The whole cyber sex, sending dirty text messages, and such have no appeal to me (just make me feel awkward and not aroused). I will sometimes send my hubby naughty pictures in emails, but that is mostly because with his job he is gone a few days at a time on a regular basis and sometimes gone for extended periods of time (a month or so). It is a little hard when we don't get to see each other for extended periods of time, so ya we send each other naughty pictures.

I never have done that with any of my exes in fear that the pictures may get out. My husband is very protective of his computer and he isn't the kind of person who would leak my pictures even if we broke up for whatever reason. So, I am not to worried about it. We have ancient phones and his can't take, send, or receive pictures anyways. lol. Your phone tends to be a little more vulnerable then your computer and I wouldn't send pictures that way.

Long Duck Dong
Apr 27, 2012, 11:56 AM
I know, kate....

the laws and shit that I rail against, is more for the ones that are struggling to keep their heads above water and reaching out for help and not getting it..... and yes I know that saving everybody is not a option, that for some of them, holding them by the hand is the worst thing for them, cos they will never be able to cope with things.....

I know from my own battle with dysthimia and the 25 year fight for answers, that its not a easy situation, half of me wants to quietly slip away ( suicidal thoughts ) and the other half of me wants to continue to stand strong for those that need somebody to take their hand before they drift away.......

I know that we can not save all of the teenagers... its a bit like having to decide who drowns and who is rescued..... and having the system look for the ones they want to rescue and I know from experience with the mental health system that I was not one of the ones they wanted to rescue...... the trouble with this old bastard, is that I learnt to float and so I try and help others to float and when the * rescue boat * does come, I go looking for other survivors, rather than get in the boat myself.....

as for getting committed to a psych unit in NZ, lol.... most of them have been shut down.... you would really have to have a dammed good reason for them to commit you to a psych unit and even then, you will more than likely be released, even if you are classed as a extreme risk to yourself or the rest of the community...

darkeyes
Apr 27, 2012, 12:11 PM
Sends Mumsie 3 snogs wiv pash.. sevral lix an loaaaaaadsa huggles.. an jumps on 'er knee like me did wen me wos a babba...:bigrin: by sext...:tongue:;)

binjlooking
Apr 27, 2012, 2:39 PM
I drove into work in NYC recently with a contractor who showed me some of the photos he was receiving from women he had picked up in local bars for one nighters. In the Shower, the Bed etc.....These women were in their late 20's to early 30's. Made sitting in traffic a little less stressful ......

darkeyes
Apr 27, 2012, 3:14 PM
I drove into work in NYC recently with a contractor who showed me some of the photos he was receiving from women he had picked up in local bars for one nighters. In the Shower, the Bed etc.....These women were in their late 20's to early 30's. Made sitting in traffic a little less stressful ......
Adult women are not quite the same thing as girls of 15, 14, 13 and even younger.. I have no wish to interfere with what adults do consensually,.. if it was consensual which it is not always even with them....

As it happens my brother was asked a year or so ago for my sister's phone number by a guy she was at school with.. they had been good friends at school so big brother didn't think twice... big sister did not appreciate the picture message she received which said simply "Like to play with an old friend?" Picture? One knob.... quick as a flash she replied saying "Hi Titchy Twadge! Been a long time. C u haven't joined the big boys yet."

ĉonpax
Apr 28, 2012, 8:21 PM
As a mom of three girls, ages 7, 9 and 15 and can assure folks that sexting is here to stay...until the next fad replaces it, which it eventually will. It's been around for years now and the more adults react to it like prudish morons, the more it just entices kids to try it. My girls get the crap on occasion from guys and just laugh it off. BTW; girls younger than even 12 are doing it and that is alarming...worse, they are making vids.

While most parents, rightfully, are concerned about it, most are so ignorant about computers and the ways of the web, they are clueless as what to look for.

darkeyes
Apr 29, 2012, 6:04 AM
As a mom of three girls, ages 7, 9 and 15 and can assure folks that sexting is here to stay...until the next fad replaces it, which it eventually will. It's been around for years now and the more adults react to it like prudish morons, the more it just entices kids to try it. My girls get the crap on occasion from guys and just laugh it off. BTW; girls younger than even 12 are doing it and that is alarming...worse, they are making vids.

While most parents, rightfully, are concerned about it, most are so ignorant about computers and the ways of the web, they are clueless as what to look for.
What u say is true babes... in the end short of removing fones an computers from kids, it can't be controlled.. and ther r arguably greater dangers in both of those.. sexting is something in principle I have no objection to as long as peeps r adult enough to know the consequences.. but the problems of kids sexting has to be addressed because of the fact that it so easily gets out of control... most kids wont sex, just like most kids wont get pregnant.. but enough will to potentially blight their lives b4 they are ready to be adult enough to live them..

SexyBiMakayla
May 18, 2012, 11:16 PM
Some people say that sexting is bad. Well, if your not underage post pictures on my wall. Which means sexting is awesome.

SexyBiMakayla
May 18, 2012, 11:20 PM
My idea of sexting is different because just a nomal picture is great